Speaker Break In...A Crock?

[bigarchie]

I purchased a pair of Meadowlark Audio's Swift loudspeakers (via mailorder) a while back.
Right out of the box, they sounded "stiff" and thin. No bass to speak of. Ok, I thought, I'll play them for about 50 hours and listen seriously again. About 50 hours later, they still sounded bad. Mmmm. These speakers do not seem to live up to the hype. I wondered if I had purchased a pair of Lemons. I emailed Meadowlark and they suggested a 200 hr. break in period! I thought this was quite outrageous. My way of thinking was that " break in" just puts the icing on the cake as far as performance...maybe a small percentage.
Later on, just for fun, I took the Swifts down to a local dealer , and compared them to a loudspeaker ( Fresh out of the box, no break in) half it's retail price. I was in shock. The Swifts sounded so bad, that the store would not take them in on a trade, even though they were almost new. Depressing. I ended up selling the Swifts and puchasing the "cheaper" pair. Meadowlark insists that a 200 hr. break in is needed, but I think they are just an inferior
design, and can't compete with some other more established speaker lines. Those "cheaper" speakers were the Monitor Audio Bronze B4's. (They recommend 30 hrs. "break in" by the way.)

[Woochifer]

Break in's not a crock, but over time it's a nonissue because there's no right or wrong way to "break in" a speaker, and at 200 hrs. that advice is total BS. When my speakers were brand new, I did a quick comparison with a demo pair and they did sound somewhat different. With a CD playing while I went out to dinner, the speakers settled in by the time I got back.

If you're really concerned about break in, the only solution is to either just play them for 200 hours straight or to try borrowing a pair of Meadowlarks from a local dealer and do your own comparison. If the dealer demos sound significantly different, then you likely have a defective set or in a worst case scenario, you got sold a pair of counterfeit units.

I guess it's too late to chime in about the uncertainties of buying speakers via mail order without hearing them first. Meadowlarks do have their fans on this board, so one of them might have something to add.

[mtrycraft]

Break in's not a crock, but over time it's a nonissue because there's no right or wrong way to "break in" a speaker, and at 200 hrs. that advice is total BS. When my speakers were brand new, I did a quick comparison with a demo pair and they did sound somewhat different. With a CD playing while I went out to dinner, the speakers settled in by the time I got back.

If you're really concerned about break in, the only solution is to either just play them for 200 hours straight or to try borrowing a pair of Meadowlarks from a local dealer and do your own comparison. If the dealer demos sound significantly different, then you likely have a defective set or in a worst case scenario, you got sold a pair of counterfeit units.

I guess it's too late to chime in about the uncertainties of buying speakers via mail order without hearing them first. Meadowlarks do have their fans on this board, so one of them might have something to add.

I would say that bias and positioning will make it sound different :)

[mtrycraft]

I purchased a pair of Meadowlark Audio's Swift loudspeakers (via mailorder) a while back.
Right out of the box, they sounded "stiff" and thin. No bass to speak of. Ok, I thought, I'll play them for about 50 hours and listen seriously again. About 50 hours later, they still sounded bad. Mmmm. These speakers do not seem to live up to the hype. I wondered if I had purchased a pair of Lemons. I emailed Meadowlark and they suggested a 200 hr. break in period! I thought this was quite outrageous. My way of thinking was that " break in" just puts the icing on the cake as far as performance...maybe a small percentage.
Later on, just for fun, I took the Swifts down to a local dealer , and compared them to a loudspeaker ( Fresh out of the box, no break in) half it's retail price. I was in shock. The Swifts sounded so bad, that the store would not take them in on a trade, even though they were almost new. Depressing. I ended up selling the Swifts and puchasing the "cheaper" pair. Meadowlark insists that a 200 hr. break in is needed, but I think they are just an inferior
design, and can't compete with some other more established speaker lines. Those "cheaper" speakers were the Monitor Audio Bronze B4's. (They recommend 30 hrs. "break in" by the way.)


Yep, not a good experience with those speakers. Why did you buy them? Did you listeing to them someplace?
Speaker breakin is a myth, unproven to audibility. And, that 200 hours is just so you get used to their sound, good bad or unacceptable and you'd less likely to returne them. It is you who adjusts to the speakers over 200 hours.

[cam]

Yep, not a good experience with those speakers. Why did you buy them? Did you listeing to them someplace?
Speaker breakin is a myth, unproven to audibility. And, that 200 hours is just so you get used to their sound, good bad or unacceptable and you'd less likely to returne them. It is you who adjusts to the speakers over 200 hours.
I have agreed with many of your comments before but not this one. Now I will start out by saying that I have never heard a broke-in tweeter sound any different then one that had 40 hours on it, but I have definitley heard a big difference in the midrange/bass drivers after 40 hours. My old pair of bookshelves I had would pop when driven hard, the same pop sound you hear when you apply to much power. After they were broke-in the pop would go away and was replaced by deep, punchier bass. NO MORE POP SOUND. Again my newer floorstanders did exactly the same thing. Tweeter still sounds the same but the bass has filled in and that pop sound disappeared. If tweeters sound different after break-in I certainly cannot tell but my ears definetly can tell with the midrange/bass driver and also sub woofers as well.

[mtrycraft]

I have agreed with many of your comments before but not this one. Now I will start out by saying that I have never heard a broke-in tweeter sound any different then one that had 40 hours on it, but I have definitley heard a big difference in the midrange/bass drivers after 40 hours. My old pair of bookshelves I had would pop when driven hard, the same pop sound you hear when you apply to much power. After they were broke-in the pop would go away and was replaced by deep, punchier bass. NO MORE POP SOUND. Again my newer floorstanders did exactly the same thing. Tweeter still sounds the same but the bass has filled in and that pop sound disappeared. If tweeters sound different after break-in I certainly cannot tell but my ears definetly can tell with the midrange/bass driver and also sub woofers as well.


You are not required to agree with everything I post :D

Tom Nousaine measured and listened to speakers, DBT. Some parameters went up, others went down. Nothing audible.
Not sure how to explain the pop sounds or if they really went away. More experimentation is needed there.

[okiemax]

I purchased a pair of Meadowlark Audio's Swift loudspeakers (via mailorder) a while back.
Right out of the box, they sounded "stiff" and thin. No bass to speak of. Ok, I thought, I'll play them for about 50 hours and listen seriously again. About 50 hours later, they still sounded bad. Mmmm. These speakers do not seem to live up to the hype. I wondered if I had purchased a pair of Lemons. I emailed Meadowlark and they suggested a 200 hr. break in period! I thought this was quite outrageous. My way of thinking was that " break in" just puts the icing on the cake as far as performance...maybe a small percentage.
Later on, just for fun, I took the Swifts down to a local dealer , and compared them to a loudspeaker ( Fresh out of the box, no break in) half it's retail price. I was in shock. The Swifts sounded so bad, that the store would not take them in on a trade, even though they were almost new. Depressing. I ended up selling the Swifts and puchasing the "cheaper" pair. Meadowlark insists that a 200 hr. break in is needed, but I think they are just an inferior
design, and can't compete with some other more established speaker lines. Those "cheaper" speakers were the Monitor Audio Bronze B4's. (They recommend 30 hrs. "break in" by the way.)

Two-hundred hours does sound like a long time. However, it may depend on the kind of drivers. For example, B&W says the break-in period for their speakers with Kelvar drivers is one month of steady use, compared to only 15 hours for their non-Kelvar models.

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/local.faq/ObjectID/F5CA2E74-3D20-11D4-A67F00D0B7473B37

[piece-it pete]

After refoaming many speakers I've got to chime in: woofers need a breakin.

I now run a 10 hz test tone - just loud enough to get decent movement of the cone - for about ten hours.

200 hours seems extreme to me. But what do I know ?

Pete

[Woochifer]

I would say that bias and positioning will make it sound different :)

The reason I even did the comparison in the first place is because the speakers out of the box sounded different than I expected. The demo comparison was to make sure that the units were not defective. If anything, my bias would be towards them sounding the same because I did not want to return the speakers and wait two weeks for a reordered set to arrive. First listen, the sound was audibly different and I was thinking about exchanging them. Second listen after an hour or two of playing while I went out, they were basically indistinguishable from one another, so I concluded that they weren't defective and kept the speakers.

[RGA]

hey mrty and all - I used to own a pair of B&W DM 302s and right out of the box the speakers literally popped like little fircrackers when I was playing them - scared me thought they were broken. After about 3 hours the popping dissapeared and the spekaer was fine for the next few years until I traded them. One magaxzine recently compared measurements of the - again B&W - CDM 1NT whiich showed measurable differences out of box and after 100 hours.

I must say that only the 302 was a speaker that was audibly changed that I have own - but anyone could hear the popping.

[Pat D]

Yep, not a good experience with those speakers. Why did you buy them? Did you listeing to them someplace?
Speaker breakin is a myth, unproven to audibility. And, that 200 hours is just so you get used to their sound, good bad or unacceptable and you'd less likely to returne them. It is you who adjusts to the speakers over 200 hours.
Judging from its measurements, I wouldn't touch the Meadowlark Swift with a 10 foot pole:

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/104meadowlark/index4.html

[Geoffcin]

I purchased a pair of Meadowlark Audio's Swift loudspeakers (via mailorder) a while back.
Right out of the box, they sounded "stiff" and thin. No bass to speak of. Ok, I thought, I'll play them for about 50 hours and listen seriously again. About 50 hours later, they still sounded bad. Mmmm. These speakers do not seem to live up to the hype. I wondered if I had purchased a pair of Lemons. I emailed Meadowlark and they suggested a 200 hr. break in period! I thought this was quite outrageous. My way of thinking was that " break in" just puts the icing on the cake as far as performance...maybe a small percentage.
Later on, just for fun, I took the Swifts down to a local dealer , and compared them to a loudspeaker ( Fresh out of the box, no break in) half it's retail price. I was in shock. The Swifts sounded so bad, that the store would not take them in on a trade, even though they were almost new. Depressing. I ended up selling the Swifts and puchasing the "cheaper" pair. Meadowlark insists that a 200 hr. break in is needed, but I think they are just an inferior
design, and can't compete with some other more established speaker lines. Those "cheaper" speakers were the Monitor Audio Bronze B4's. (They recommend 30 hrs. "break in" by the way.)


But WTF were you expecting from speakers with 4.5" woofers?

[mtrycraft]

The reason I even did the comparison in the first place is because the speakers out of the box sounded different than I expected. The demo comparison was to make sure that the units were not defective.

Yes, that is a very likely possibility, especially if you read the gentle handling UPS provides :)

If anything, my bias would be towards them sounding the same because I did not want to return the speakers and wait two weeks for a reordered set to arrive.

Unfortunately, bias is unpredictable and uncontrollable. If it was a simple issue, we wouldn't need DBT :)

[mtrycraft]

Judging from its measurements, I wouldn't touch the Meadowlark Swift with a 10 foot pole:

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/104meadowlark/index4.html


WOW, how awful. I don't think I could lift a 50ft pole to touch it with :)

[mtrycraft]

hey mrty and all - I used to own a pair of B&W DM 302s and right out of the box the speakers literally popped like little fircrackers when I was playing them - scared me thought they were broken. After about 3 hours the popping dissapeared and the spekaer was fine for the next few years until I traded them. One magaxzine recently compared measurements of the - again B&W - CDM 1NT whiich showed measurable differences out of box and after 100 hours.

I must say that only the 302 was a speaker that was audibly changed that I have own - but anyone could hear the popping.


Tom Nousaine measured differences as I indicated, some parameter up, some down.
Measureable differences but how much? Same exact drivers and crossovers? After all those years?

Oh, there are measureable differences between units on the assembly line. How much and where in the spectrum.

Not sure what the craks are. Caps?

[topspeed]

Two-hundred hours does sound like a long time. However, it may depend on the kind of drivers. For example, B&W says the break-in period for their speakers with Kelvar drivers is one month of steady use, compared to only 15 hours for their non-Kelvar models.

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/local.faq/ObjectID/F5CA2E74-3D20-11D4-A67F00D0B7473B37
My B&W CDM 7NT manual recommends allowing up to a week for temperature stabilisation (depending on local climate) and 15 hours of run-in, that's all. They have a kevlar mid and kevlar/paper bass driver.

[kexodusc]

Tom Nousaine measured differences as I indicated, some parameter up, some down.
Measureable differences but how much? Same exact drivers and crossovers? After all those years?
Hey, Mtry, any idea where I could find the results of that test? Good reading, I'm sure...Google and Yahoo searches haven't been much help, just found references to his conclusion.
Thanks.

[filecat13]

200 hours is just so you get used to their sound, good bad or unacceptable and you'd less likely to returne them. It is you who adjusts to the speakers over 200 hours.

True, true, true, although this is not always a bad thing. After years of listening to a particular speaker, some auditory learning and adjustment might really be necessary. A large number of people find speakers with relatively flat response to be thin, weak, and uninteresting at first, because they're used to boomy bass, exaggerated mids, and/or screechy highs.

"Sheet! My old JBL L100s sound WAY better than those pricey Sonus Faber Cremonas. You wasted your money, boy."

[RGA]

Not sure what the craks are. Caps?

Yikes but given the choice would you believe the caps "broke in" or the woofer settled in. I give the odds to the moving part.

[mtrycraft]

True, true, true, although this is not always a bad thing.


Of course not as in your example below :) But, I doubt you'd want to get used to broken into those bad speakers :)

A large number of people find speakers with relatively flat response to be thin, weak, and uninteresting at first, because they're used to boomy bass, exaggerated mids, and/or screechy highs.

Yes, very true :)

QUOTE]

[cam]

Whenever My unbroke-in speakers popped, the pop happened when there was supposed to be a bass note such as from a bass drum. To me the pop happened from a direct result from the woofer not being able to move as freely as it was designed. Once moving freely, no more pop just deeper punchier bass. In other words a fuller, warmer sound.

[mtrycraft]

Yikes but given the choice would you believe the caps "broke in" or the woofer settled in. I give the odds to the moving part.


No idea about either w3ithout further investigation as to what level in fact this happened. Even if the material changed, it doesn't take hours but a number of strokes and, that audible effect is nto what is meant by break in, right? :D

[mtrycraft]

Hey, Mtry, any idea where I could find the results of that test? Good reading, I'm sure...Google and Yahoo searches haven't been much help, just found references to his conclusion.
Thanks.


You shoul d have learned by now to contact me first :)

Here you go:

"Breaking Wind", Nousaine, Tom, Car Stereo Review, Jan/Feb 1997, pg 90-94.


"Test Report: Dynaudio MW 190, 12" Subwoofer", Nousaine, Tom, Car Stereo Review, Oct 1997, pg 83-88.

But you need to have your local librarian to get it through inter libary loan. Usually at a nominal cost. Next time I post my citation list, bookmark it :)

[Woochifer]

The reason I even did the comparison in the first place is because the speakers out of the box sounded different than I expected. The demo comparison was to make sure that the units were not defective.

Yes, that is a very likely possibility, especially if you read the gentle handling UPS provides :)



Then, I guess that plugging those speakers in and nursing them back to health with a couple of hours of normal playing healed them from their UPS induced injuries. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.