newbie Help on 2-way VS 3way [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : newbie Help on 2-way VS 3way



Jayjutsu
06-30-2004, 06:46 PM
Hey

I'm looking to buy a pair of towers to start off my home entertainment system. I have a yamaha 6.1 htr-5750 and I just realized all the speakers that I have been looking at;

Klipsch SF-3 and SF-2
Wharfedal Zaldek 2000 and 1000's
Athena AS-F2

that they all are 2 way speakers. I work at bestbuy and can get a good deal on all of these speakers but someone mentioned something about 3-way speakers. Has the technology chagned where 2 way speakers will be fine. Or should I also look at 3 way speakers.

I want them for a surround system and also to listen to all kinds of music.

Thanks
Jason

poneal
06-30-2004, 07:13 PM
Some 2way speakers come close to 3way speakers in response, but you will pay for it in the price. A good 3way will take you to the lower octaves (which I prefer), especially during stereo listening because you don't need a sub. I also prefer sealed boxes over vented boxes because I think the bass sounds more natural and easier to tame in the home environment. Have you thought of DIY speaker building? If so, you could build yourself some nice 3ways for about a 1/3 of the price of any of those speakers. Well thats my two cents on the subject.

RGA
06-30-2004, 10:14 PM
2 way is better generally especially in this price range - the reasons are basically obvious - cheap 3 way speakers have an extra driver and crossover and more cheap wood - cheap cabinets resonate the less the better - the less cheap crossovers the better - you get more for your money with a two way - in that you get less problems.

Depending on the two way you can get more bass than multi-way systems - though they are generally expensive. Adding a sub to a two way makes it a three way however so you need to make sure the standmount's bass is good enough for you. Adding a sub adds bass but there is still a tonality from top to bottom not accounted for. You'd need to hear it the difference. Listening to the B&W N805 and properly integrated sub is quite different than listening to the B&W N801 fuller range floorstander. - I take the latter anyday.

So given the choice of these two three ways I take the latter - but look at the price. There are excellent three ways but it seems to cost a lot to get a good one - really depends on how nit-picky you are.

Since we're talking a system that you also seem to want for home theater - I would attempt to save a bit more and get to the Klipsch RF line. I can't talk about the Zaldek sound though the Diamond line is quite good and the Pacific series is supposed to be very accomplished for the money. The Zaldeks look like a party speaker.

Athena has supporters - I was not thrilled by the treble/upper midrange which would probably knoick them off my list. That said it's just my taste - compared to what else future shop was carrying they might have been the best of the lot. Tough call - Best Buy - do they still sell Polk Audio - I would add them to your list if this is the case - less exciting but solid and worth considering.

kfalls
07-01-2004, 06:34 AM
Usually when you talk about the difference between a 2-way and 3-way you're talking about the addition of a mid-range driver not a woofer or a sub. One of the main disadvantages with going with more than two drivers is the xover. It's much more difficult to design a xover so their ranges don't overlap causing coloration. Steeper Xover slopes require more components, more possibility for phase, impedance, power-handling issues and increased expense. You usually won't find 2-ways with extended bass because it's difficult to find larger woofers which will go high enough, or a tweeter which will go low enough to provide a smooth, flat frequency response throughout the entire listening range. Many early simplistic 2-way designs had little more than a capacitor between the woofer and tweeter to filter out the low-end. Granted most 3-way designs have larger woofers, but it's because the mid-range driver is able to fill the gap in-between.

uncooked
07-01-2004, 12:01 PM
Im not to familiar with the other 2 speakers but the athena asf2's sound awsome to me. there next on my speaker list for my hometheatre set up. the asf1's are great but dont have quite the bass i like becuase my sub is smaller.

Pat D
07-02-2004, 09:15 AM
Hey

I'm looking to buy a pair of towers to start off my home entertainment system. I have a yamaha 6.1 htr-5750 and I just realized all the speakers that I have been looking at;

Klipsch SF-3 and SF-2
Wharfedal Zaldek 2000 and 1000's
Athena AS-F2

that they all are 2 way speakers. I work at bestbuy and can get a good deal on all of these speakers but someone mentioned something about 3-way speakers. Has the technology chagned where 2 way speakers will be fine. Or should I also look at 3 way speakers.

I want them for a surround system and also to listen to all kinds of music.

Thanks
Jason
The main issues with two vs. 3+ ways are dispersion, bass response, and power handling.

A lot of research has shown that a wide, even dispersion pattern is desirable in conventional speakers. It makes them more room and placement friendly because the direct sound and the off axis sound reflected off the walls will have close to the same balance.

A rule of thumb is that a driver becomes too directional when the wave length of the sound is smaller than the diameter of the driver. Sound travels about 1130 ft./sec. So the frequency at which the wave length would be the same length as the diameter of a 12" driver would be about 1130 Hz. For an 8" driver, the frequency would be around 1686 Hz, and for a 15" driver, about 904 Hz. Applying the same rule to a 6" driver, the transition is about 2260 Hz. The transition is not immediate, the point is that as the frequencies rise, a driver of a given size will start to beam more, which in most domestic environments is not a desirable characteristic.

Now, power handling in a two speaker is particularly an issue with the tweeter and the woofer. Most musical energy is in the midrange and below, so too low a crossover puts a severe load on the poor little tweeter. Modern tweeters tend to be much more robust than pre-digital sound tweeters. To a CD player, high frequencies are just as easy to reproduce as the bass and midrange. Now, there are two main ways of dealing with this, and they are not mutually exclusive: 1) increase the power handling of the tweeter, and 2) keep the crossover to the tweeter reasonably high, so it doesn't have to reproduce to much midrange energy.

So, to keep the dispersion pattern even off axis, we don't want to cross over the tweeter so high that the woofer gets beamy, and for power handling, we don't want to crossover the tweeter so low that the tweeter receives too much power. In a two way speaker with a 6" woofer, this means we can easily put the crossover between the woofer to the tweeter at about 2000 Hz or so and keep good dispersion. Paradigm prides itself on its robust tweeters, and some of the speakers cross over at 1500-1600 Hz.

Now, a small woofer will run into significant power handling limits in the bass. For power handling and for deep bass response with low distortion it takes larger drivers or more drivers. This is where 3 way speakers come in. They can have even dispersion through the midrange and highs and have better deep bass reproduction as well.

Now, I and others use two way monitors with a subwoofer. Since a subwoofer with the desirable corner placement should be crossed over below 80 Hz, this means the monitor needs to be able to produce sufficient bass output at 80 Hz and below. Now, at what I consider reasonable volume levels, a two way speaker can do fine. However, for really loud levels, above about 85-90 dBa, a good three way speaker will do better even with a subwoofer. But if you play that loud very much, you can damage your hearing.

Since it is more complicated and requires more parts, a good three way speaker generally costs more than a good two way speaker, and that is one reason why two way speakers are so popular. I do fine with two way monitors and a subwoofer.

Anyway, you need to find out which speaker you prefer. Don't be caught in the trap of looking for the "best" speakers, because you can never be sure you have found them. Look for the speakers you like and think you can live with for a long time--I always visualized 20 years. Then try them out at home.

Anyway, that's the basics. A very good discussion by Paul Barton, an excellent speaker designer who makes PSB speakers, can be found at the following URL:

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/231/

Also check out the PSB web site. Now, I have PSB Stratus Mini speakers, but not to leave their competitors in the dust:D , here is another interview, this one with another excellent designer, John Tchilinguirian of Energy speakers (Audio Products International). Check out their web site, too:

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/552/

I don't have an interview with the excellent Paradigm designers handy, but you can find lots of good information on the Paradigm site.