Listening to the new Dream Theatre [Archive]

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Dave_G

06-15-2004, 04:55 AM

progfan

06-15-2004, 05:22 AM

"I guess you can only go so far with progmetal or whatever in the hell this stuff is"

Very true. As much as I enjoy this little subgenre, if I had a dime for every European female fronted progmetal act with king size double bass drums, Malmsteen derived guitar, neo Rick Wakeman keys and concept albums involving witches, warriors and dragons, I'd be filthy rich.

"Amazing how such a great group of musicians can generate such a turd"

Well I don't think ToT is a turd but it's far from their best. They wanted to get away from the prog a bit and come up with something more metalish. I think it succeeds on that level but it's not the direction I'd want to see them go in either.

"But in their defense, because they ARE good musicians (except the singer),"

Have you heard the latest Ayreon? He's very good on that one. I just wish he'd quit trying to be Fred Durst on ToT. LaBrie doing rap metal is just sad.

Dave_G

06-15-2004, 05:36 AM

No, I have not heard the new Ayreon, but have been tempted to get it.

Didn't know that LaBrie sang on it.

But ya I'm way disappointed in ToT. It's too "speedmetally"...

Lately I have been WAY into Pallas "Cross and the Crucible", its stunningly good.

And I'm anxious to get the new IQ cd too.

Who are you, Mr. progfan?

Dave

ForeverAutumn

06-15-2004, 05:58 AM

progfan

06-15-2004, 06:07 AM

"Lately I have been WAY into Pallas "Cross and the Crucible", its stunningly good."

I agree. Best thing they've done since "The Sentinel". I'd like to get their DVD as well. Are you going to Nearfest? They are playing there this year.

"And I'm anxious to get the new IQ cd too"

Same here! I've heard great reports. I didn't like "Seventh House" much though. Just for fun, I played "Nomzamo" last nite. I hadn't heard it in years. LOL. Talk about a pile of turd. Sounds like they wanted to be Mike and the Mechanics crossed with Asia.

"Who are you, Mr. progfan?"

Steve from New Hampshire. I'm pretty new here though I've lurked for quite a while. Nice place to get lots of opinions on equipment. Are you a member of Progressive Ears? My handle is rael.

Troy

06-15-2004, 06:43 AM

Always been mystified by the attraction of DT. Guess I'm just not a metal fan. It's funny, cuz I tend to like most of the member's (except LaBrie) side projects. Thought "feeding the Wheel" was exceptional. Ditto "Chroma Key".

I much prefer the more melodic proggystuff like "7th House".

Welcome abourd Progfan.

Progressive Ears= DesignShed

Dave_G

06-15-2004, 07:43 AM

Oh yes I post @ PE a lot.

I'm DEG over there.

No Nearfest for me sob boohoo I would enjoy Strawbs and Pallas for sure.

Ya, the Pallas dvd is killer!

Dave

mad rhetorik

06-15-2004, 12:31 PM

Being a metal listener, I think Train Of Thought is pretty ace musically. It reminds me a lot of Metallica or Megadeth in their heyday. Especially "Stream Of Consciousness," the instrumental; it sounds like a homage (rip-off?) of Metallica's "Orion." The song lengths are more than a bit self-indulgent, but hey, it's Dream Theater.

I agree, the band needs to ditch Labrie. He's holding the band back when they try their hand at heavier music. And his "rapping" on "Honor Thy Father" is downright embarrassing to the ears. Zach De La Rocha he ain't. The lyrics aren't as sophisticated as past efforts either, being more like the "mad at my dad" fake angst that nu-metal bands beat to death. At least there isn't any cheesy balladry this time 'round, which is good.

I like the fact that Portnoy (crank the bass up!) and Petrucci take the lead on this one, leaving Rudess in a more rhythmic role (I don't dig his noodly keyboard solos). Wish that Myung's bass was a little more prevalent in the mix, but that's a typical flaw of metal--lack of bass prescence.

Overall, I like this direction and hope they keep at it. All they need now is a better singer and some more original songwriting.

Dusty Chalk

06-15-2004, 09:35 PM

No, I have not heard the new Ayreon, but have been tempted to get it.OMG, go out and get it, it is excellent. I've listened to it three times in a row just now.

BarryL

06-16-2004, 03:42 AM

I guess you can only go so far with progmetal or whatever in the hell this stuff is.

Amazing how such a great group of musicians can generate such a turd.

More of the same stuff over and over and over and over...

Time to move on DT. Get a new singer, get a new songwriter, and get with the program.

But in their defense, because they ARE good musicians (except the singer), I guess old farting 44 year olds are not their target market, huh.

Dave

I listened to this album only once before I saw them in conert. I wasn't impressed, but one listen isn't enough. If you were willing to give this album a chance, knowing that you don't like LeBrie, then you should pick up an album called Frameshift, which features LeBrie on vocals. The album is pretty good. Very progressive in the Dream Theater vein, but much better songwriting. And LeBrie's vocals are outstanding. He spends his time singing, not shrieking. It's a themed album around the writings of biologist and evolutionist Richard Dawkins. If you can't get the album, then read Dawkins. Science writing doesn't get much better than this.

I got a new respect for Rudess when I saw him last time with Dream Theater. I also saw him about a year ago with Queensryche, and they didn't give him enough slack to really shine on stage. It was different on the last tour. He was a dynamo. Much more than a noodler. He has an album out with Petrucci. Just the two of them. I'm waiting for it to arrive.

Welcome, progguy. We need more prog talk around here. It seems that we've lost big D.

Dave_G

06-16-2004, 05:06 AM

If you want to talk prog, this ain't the place.

Go to Progressiveears.com

I post there all the time and it's only prog.

Dave

Dusty Chalk

06-16-2004, 08:24 AM

Go to Progressiveears.com

I post there all the time and it's only prog.Appears to be broken right now. :(

kingcrim05

06-16-2004, 09:20 AM

I like the fact that Portnoy (crank the bass up!) and Petrucci take the lead on this one, .

Wow. Have you ever listened to a Dream Theater Album before? And yes, it's Dream Theater, not Dream Theatre as the thread title implies. Portnoy and Petrucci are Dream Theater.

P + P = DT

Myung, Labrie and Rudess are all secondary roles. I don't feel the need to prove this as every single one of their albums will do this for me.

Train of Thought is possibly their worst album. Forever Autumn, how could you like this more than 6DoIT? The album as a whole wasn't their greatest, but a few songs such as Blind Faith and Misunderstood and, if you wanna hear intricate guitar work as you said, The Glass Prison. Disc 2 gives you songs you can hum to 3 days after you listen to it, something a lot of Dream Theater songs won't let you do.

For the people who haven't heard Dream Theater and would like to dip in, here's my list of their albums from best to worst. I would like to think that i'm the DT expert on the board but this may not be the case. Regardless, my opinion:

Metropolis II: Scenes From A Memory
Images and Words
Awake
6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Falling Into Infinity (some call this their worst album. I say listen to it a few more times. New Millenium and Hell's Kitchen are two of their best pieces EVER)
Train of Thought
A Change of Seasons
When Day and Dream Unite

As for their live albums,
Once in a LIVEtime
Live Scenes From New York
Live at the Marquee

Once in a LIVEtime is most likely my favorite live album of all time. Anytime i want to show someoen DT for the first time, this is usually my choice. You can hear bands like DT spends decades in a studio to achienve perfection. With this live cd though, you can hear them play it live with the crowd. Absolutely fantastic 2 cd set.

I would very much like soem responses to my thread to see what others think. I know we have a few DT fans but not too many, we always need more.

mad rhetorik

06-16-2004, 10:22 AM

Wow. Have you ever listened to a Dream Theater Album before? And yes, it's Dream Theater, not Dream Theatre as the thread title implies. Portnoy and Petrucci are Dream Theater.

P + P = DT

Myung, Labrie and Rudess are all secondary roles. I don't feel the need to prove this as every single one of their albums will do this for me.

Yes, I'm aware that Petrucci and Portnoy are the lead songwriters in the band. My point was that Rudess didn't get a chance to noodle around as much, which I prefer. The mix is more guitar-and-drums oriented on Train Of Thought than, say, Metropolis Pt. 2. As far as John Myung is concerned, I feel that his considerable talent generally gets the short end of the stick in that band. I love crazy bass solos.

Portnoy and Petrucci are incredibly talented though, no question about it. Petrucci's guitarwork on ToT is shred-tastic.

For the people who haven't heard Dream Theater and would like to dip in, here's my list of their albums from best to worst. I would like to think that i'm the DT expert on the board but this may not be the case. Regardless, my opinion:

Metropolis II: Scenes From A Memory
Images and Words
Awake
6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Falling Into Infinity (some call this their worst album. I say listen to it a few more times. New Millenium and Hell's Kitchen are two of their best pieces EVER)
Train of Thought
A Change of Seasons
When Day and Dream Unite

As for their live albums,
Once in a LIVEtime
Live Scenes From New York
Live at the Marquee

I'm not a huge Dream Theater fan--the only album I own from them is Metropolis Pt. 2, and didn't get a wild itch to really explore their other albums. Their self-indulgent tendencies get boring after a while, and I can stand only so much Labrie before I have to shut my ears off.

One of my friends is a huge DT fanboy, and so I've listened to his copies of Awake, Train Of Thought, Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence, Images And Words, etc. several times. His favorites are Awake and Train Of Thought, and I tend to side with him. Maybe because those albums are heavier than their other work.

Can't say I dig what I've heard of their live stuff very much. It's okay, but they tend to be even more wanky in that setting.

Dave_G

06-16-2004, 10:48 AM

Well I will add more.

I have never been able to enjoy any of their cd's for the most part. They are too "busy", and like the other guy said, ya, the new one is shread stuff big time. And that style isn't my cup of tea.

However, the latest dvd of theirs is excellent. Seeing these guys plays sheds a different light on them, Petrucci is awsome. But when Labrie leaves the stage it only gets better!

I would like to hear these guys record a straight ahead rock record as opposed to a thrash/metal/pseudo prog recording.

But each to his own, ya know, which is what makes music interesting.

Dave

ForeverAutumn

06-16-2004, 11:06 AM

Train of Thought is possibly their worst album. Forever Autumn, how could you like this more than 6DoIT? The album as a whole wasn't their greatest, but a few songs such as Blind Faith and Misunderstood and, if you wanna hear intricate guitar work as you said, The Glass Prison. Disc 2 gives you songs you can hum to 3 days after you listen to it, something a lot of Dream Theater songs won't let you do.

To be fair, I've only heard the first disk of 6DofIT. It was kindly sent to me as an evaluation copy since I didn't want to fork out the over $30.00 that was required to purchase it here. Maybe hearing disk two would change my opinion, but disk one just didn't do anything for me. It certainly didn't make me want to spend the money to hear disk two. I admit that I may have judged this one unfairly, but based on what I've heard....I don't think so. Just my opinion.

I think it's hilarious how the Americans around here insist on spelling Theater the Canadian way. And continue to do so even when the Canucks point out the error. :D

progfan

06-16-2004, 01:18 PM

Forever Autumn said:

"To be fair, I've only heard the first disk of 6DofIT. It was kindly sent to me as an evaluation copy since I didn't want to fork out the over $30.00 that was required to purchase it here. Maybe hearing disk two would change my opinion, but disk one just didn't do anything for me."

If you like the proggier side of DT, you'd probably like Disc 2 better. It's one 45 minute recording and somewhat similiar in style to Metropolis 2. Not exactly like Strawbs, but still quite enjoyable. :)

kingcrim05

06-16-2004, 01:22 PM

No, it's the name of the band: Dream Theater =) It'd be like calling King Crimson, King Crimsen. That's not he name of the band. =)

That's all.

Mad, i might agree that the ToT mix is even MORE drum and guitar led than the other albums, but my point was simply that all their mixes have always been that way. Hearing Myung is a challenge to any musician on most songs which is unfortunate because he basically plays what petrucci is playing a lot of the time, which is mighty impressive.

Rudess being toned down does suck and i believe that he made a comment on his site right when ToT came out along the lines of "Petrucci's playing is too eratic, too fast, too random....i'm not going to learn it to play it the same, he can do it on his own..." I think that's why you hear a lot less Rudess on this album. He's their what, 3rd? 4th keyboard player? I think ican realize why.....Too bad that Liquid Tension Experiment couldn't have put out 10 albums, because i agree the music is what really makes this band, and the singing only takes away from it.

As far as the wanking: It takes skill to be able to wank =)

Imagine if any of the bands you hear on the radio started to wank. Good Lord.