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Woochifer
11-12-2003, 08:19 PM
Bose has now decided that they not only own the decimal point (like when they sued Thiel for using decimal places for their speaker model numbers), but the word "Lifestyle" as well. Inexplicably, they've decided to sue CEDIA, which is actually a trade organization that they belong to, for its use of the term "electronic lifestyles." Stuff like this just pisses me off, because it's yet another faceless corporation trying to claim ownership on terms and ideas that they had no part in developing, and that were commonly used well before they even tried to make it their trademark. Kind of like how Amazon's now enforcing their patent on "one click" shopping ... ridiculous.

http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/1103/07.cedia.shtml

Now that Bose's lawyers have been turned loose, why don't they sue Apple for advertising the Mac as the hub of the "digital lifestyle"?

Or if we want to play dirty pool, maybe someone should write to the makers of Lifestyle condoms, and have them sue Bose for irreparably damaging THEIR trademark. I mean, if I manufactured condoms, I sure wouldn't want my products to be associated with Bose! Last thing I'd want would be for customers to think that my products were overpriced, underperforming products that are built with cheap materials, and famous for being undersized and making use of questionable technologies like appendages that point in the wrong direction.

Bryan
11-13-2003, 09:15 AM
Why only one?

bturk667
11-13-2003, 01:47 PM
It could take all day and eat up to much space. A better question would be: Who like Bose products. Now that might be a very short list.

Woochifer
11-13-2003, 02:46 PM
Why only one?

You're right, the list is already pretty long and that would've been a waste of bandwidth! This was just one more log to add to the fire.

Harleyx
11-14-2003, 07:36 AM
Metallica sues Canadian band over use of E and F chords.
Lars (the villiage idiot) was heard to spew "It's not about the chords seperately, but the 2 together."
One day, it got too easy to abuse the court system.

joel2762
11-14-2003, 12:39 PM
When I say "Bose is a complete rip off" I don't think that's a matter of opinion. I think no matter what opinon. Bose-Is-A-Rip-Off. Look at their Lifestyle systems or whatever (I don't know the models because I have no interest in Bose). But it's close to like $2000 Can for that. And it's garbage! It sounds horrible. Bose is way overpriced and people will still pay the high prices for the Bose name. I guess they aren't aware that it's junk. As for sueing a company for using decimal places in model numbers? That is sick. I can't believe that. Why doesn't Bose spend their time on making a speaker that will live up to their outrageous price instead of sueing companies for using the decimal that they don't own. What is all this junk Reflective junk. Who cares about rip off stuff they come up with. Why don't they build a normal speaker and sell it at a normal price. That sounds normally Good.


-Joel-

markw
11-14-2003, 03:16 PM
Bose trrives on name recognition, not sound quality. This new lawsuit will simply add to that. Anythingto get the name in front of the public.

I truly believe that more people hear/read about Bose by reading (non audio related) magazines in doctors and dentists offices than anywhere else. That, and infomercials.

Now, let's see if they go after groups that use the words "alternative lifestyles". Now, THAT should be interesting.

Woochifer
11-14-2003, 03:49 PM
But it's close to like $2000 Can for that. And it's garbage! It sounds horrible. Bose is way overpriced and people will still pay the high prices for the Bose name. I guess they aren't aware that it's junk. As for sueing a company for using decimal places in model numbers? That is sick. I can't believe that. Why doesn't Bose spend their time on making a speaker that will live up to their outrageous price instead of sueing companies for using the decimal that they don't own. What is all this junk Reflective junk. Who cares about rip off stuff they come up with. Why don't they build a normal speaker and sell it at a normal price. That sounds normally Good.

Believe me, $2,000 is not even their most blatant ripoff. The Lifestyle 35 (which I have tried out before) goes for $2,900 and the Lifestyle 50 sells for $3,500. These pieces actually compete more with all-in-one systems like the Sony Dream Systems or the Yamaha Cinemastations. But, these competing units sell for less than $1,000 and actually have better format support and upgradability! For what the Lifestyle 50 costs, anybody with half a frontal lobe can put together an incredibly satisfying home theatre system.

I'm sure Bose is well aware that they sell junk, but they justify those high prices by pointing to all those mouths that they got to feed in their marketing and legal departments.

TinHere
11-14-2003, 05:23 PM
Now, let's see if they go after groups that use the words "alternative lifestyles". Now, THAT should be interesting.

Very funny newbie. :D

With the profit margines they enjoy don't expect changes real soon. There are already many people aspiring to have them in their home when they can afford them. I'll bet that number dwindles in proportion to consumer awareness.

Jim Clark
11-16-2003, 08:24 AM
Not to defend Bose in particular, but there may very well be legal reason for these lawsuits. I'm not a lawyer, I don't even play one on internet forums but I've been to training sessions with enough large corporations to know that they take their 's, 's, and 's, very seriously. In many cases it represents their only link to survival as a business. Essentially it boils down to the fact that they must be able to convince a court of law that they defend their brand names and be able to show where they've taken steps to enforce their rights. If they can't show that, or don't take the necessary steps, the names are up for grabs.

I'm not aware of any of the particulars of these cases you cite but I think we can all agree that Bose, as a corporation is anything but stupid. While it may not make sense to us, there may in fact be some compelling legal issues that force their hand.

Regards,
jc

Aldo WIngate
02-26-2004, 05:37 PM
It has come to my attention that there continues to be the ridiculous and negative remarks directed towards Bose. I cannot think of a more conspicuous example of insecurity than I see when I read a thread like this. Shame in what one owns should not be a lisense to rip another company to feel superior. What about the people that have Bose? Do they not diserve the courtessy of enjoying their product that they went out and spent there hard earned money on?

Stop this madness.

Harleyx
02-26-2004, 06:04 PM
What about the people that have Bose?

Stop this madness.



I couldn't agree more....

skeptic
02-26-2004, 06:10 PM
If someone no longer enjoyed owning and using an item they had previously been very happy with because a few people made some derogatory comments about it on the internet, that doesn't say very much for the product. Or for the confidence the owner has that he made the best choice for himself.

BTW, I didn't get a chance to comment on the Kenwood system because the thread was closed before I read it but I must say I agree with you. Assuming my guesses about your taste in music and your level of interest in audio equipment performance are anywhere near the mark, I'd say your system is the best you can get for yourself and you shouldn't look for anything more expensive or complex. For your needs and tastes, it is the best you will ever have.

Woochifer
02-26-2004, 06:39 PM
It has come to my attention that there continues to be the ridiculous and negative remarks directed towards Bose. I cannot think of a more conspicuous example of insecurity than I see when I read a thread like this. Shame in what one owns should not be a lisense to rip another company to feel superior. What about the people that have Bose? Do they not diserve the courtessy of enjoying their product that they went out and spent there hard earned money on?

Stop this madness.

So, I'm assuming that Bose is one of those unnamed "high end" systems that you claim your Kenwood system trounces?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-27-2004, 10:24 AM
So, I'm assuming that Bose is one of those unnamed "high end" systems that you claim your Kenwood system trounces?

I take it from your tone in this entire thread that you are a VERY angry man ,<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif"> Well the T-man just wants you to take ten deep breaths, and have a beer<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/beer.gif">. It looks like you are tearing pages out of MY book with this kind of tirade<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/soapbox.gif">


Did someone mention BOSE! a.....mmmmmm.....yeeeeeeeeeekkkkkk<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/throwupen.gif">

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-27-2004, 10:34 AM
It has come to my attention that there continues to be the ridiculous and negative remarks directed towards Bose. I cannot think of a more conspicuous example of insecurity than I see when I read a thread like this. Shame in what one owns should not be a lisense to rip another company to feel superior. What about the people that have Bose? Do they not diserve the courtessy of enjoying their product that they went out and spent there hard earned money on?

Stop this madness.

Mr. Wingate,

You sound VERY angry too<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif"> If I owned a Bose system, I would be mad too. At myself, for not doing my homework, for not listening and comparing the system to other products in its price class, and for spending too much money and getting too little back. <img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/blow.gif">

Did I say that? <img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/not%20me.gif"> <img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/peek.gif">

chimera128
02-27-2004, 11:25 AM
Blaming people for ignorance or belittling them for purchases doesn't really accomplish anything either (although it can be fun at times). As someone stated before BOSE thrives on advertising both on television and at Dr.s offices everywhere. If Hyundai somehow bought up all the air time used for car commercials and touted their products as the best then the masses would surely flock to Hyundai dealers because they don't know any better. (I own a Hyundai by the way... never was into the expensive cars and I do own a bose lifestyle system that was a hand-me-down that I use for computer speakers). All the people who I talk to about stereos with always ask how it compares to BOSE. All it takes is one listen. It's up to us who have ventured away from main retail stores for our audio equipment to educate our family and friends on just what is out there. Until then I think we all know how bad BOSE systems really are, but this is no basis to make other's feel bad about their decisions in life. Ignorance is bliss!! =)

Woochifer
02-27-2004, 01:39 PM
I take it from your tone in this entire thread that you are a VERY angry man ,<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif"> Well the T-man just wants you to take ten deep breaths, and have a beer<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/beer.gif">. It looks like you are tearing pages out of MY book with this kind of tirade<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/soapbox.gif">


Did someone mention BOSE! a.....mmmmmm.....yeeeeeeeeeekkkkkk<img src="http://drumcorpsplanet.org/forums/html/emoticons/throwupen.gif">

T-man -

Maybe you caught me in some delayed post traumatic state from my last visit to NYC four years ago. I woke up, and could suddenly feel Terrence's rage, and had this urgent need to go launching missiles at something. Alas, my local military surplus outlet didn't have any on layaway, so the Bose thread had to suffice! :P

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-27-2004, 02:08 PM
Blaming people for ignorance or belittling them for purchases doesn't really accomplish anything either (although it can be fun at times). As someone stated before BOSE thrives on advertising both on television and at Dr.s offices everywhere. If Hyundai somehow bought up all the air time used for car commercials and touted their products as the best then the masses would surely flock to Hyundai dealers because they don't know any better. (I own a Hyundai by the way... never was into the expensive cars and I do own a bose lifestyle system that was a hand-me-down that I use for computer speakers). All the people who I talk to about stereos with always ask how it compares to BOSE. All it takes is one listen. It's up to us who have ventured away from main retail stores for our audio equipment to educate our family and friends on just what is out there. Until then I think we all know how bad BOSE systems really are, but this is no basis to make other's feel bad about their decisions in life. Ignorance is bliss!! =)

Chimera,

With the internet forums like this, magazines, and word of mouth there is no excuse for buying anything Bose. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is also VERY costly. There is no reason for ANYONE to have a sheep mentality and buy a product because every other ignorant person is buying it. They should be chided and belittle of this is the case.
IMHO I don't really think this is a case of ignorance alone. Its laziness AND ignorance, and a little dose of greed on behalf of salesmen who sell this crap.

I am sorry, I am having a very hard time feeling sorry for those people who choose a name over value and performance. They should feel bad for not being so bright!

Woochifer
02-27-2004, 02:25 PM
Chimera,

With the internet forums like this, magazines, and word of mouth there is no excuse for buying anything Bose. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is also VERY costly. There is no reason for ANYONE to have a sheep mentality and buy a product because every other ignorant person is buying it. They should be chided and belittle of this is the case.
IMHO I don't really think this is a case of ignorance alone. Its laziness AND ignorance, and a little dose of greed on behalf of salesmen who sell this crap.

I am sorry, I am having a very hard time feeling sorry for those people who choose a name over value and performance. They should feel bad for not being so bright!

Ah, THAT'S the vintage Terrence that I remember! I told you a long time ago to let that prescription just run out, glad that took me up on it. Good to have you back, dude. :D

Aldo WIngate
02-27-2004, 02:26 PM
"Stuff like this just pisses me off, because it's yet another faceless corporation trying to claim ownership on terms and ideas that they had no part in developing, and that were commonly used well before they even tried to make it their trademark. Kind of like how Amazon's now enforcing their patent on "one click" shopping ... ridiculous."


Can't you post without whining about something? Negative, Negative, Negative!

Rhino
02-27-2004, 03:10 PM
Can't you post without whining about something?



Can you?

r3Wind
02-27-2004, 03:35 PM
Metallica sues Canadian band over use of E and F chords.
Lars (the villiage idiot) was heard to spew "It's not about the chords seperately, but the 2 together."
One day, it got too easy to abuse the court system.
That was actually just a joke made up by the guy in the Canadian band to get publicity. The sad thing is that considering all the crap Metallica has pulled in the past, it was fairly believable...

bhd812
02-27-2004, 11:04 PM
well I had a few bose sound systems in my time, I know that they are not the best but there way better then any sony audio product ever made (not thier tv,dvd,cd players,maybe vcr)


i think if someone wants to buy bose let them, its like buying a papsi..your paying for the marketing thats all.

and the marketing says they sound great so people think they sound amazing.

my dads friend was over and asked me about my mirage om-9's i told him that they sound like crap and they were very cheap. after hearing them he looks at me and said they do sound like crap and bose is way better. now if i told him the real deal he would of thought they were great.

its all marketing people, why get so mad about it???

I was happy with my bose systems that i had, they sucked compared to others but they still sounded better then klh,sony,jbl,and other crap best buy sells.

Woochifer
02-28-2004, 01:35 PM
well I had a few bose sound systems in my time, I know that they are not the best but there way better then any sony audio product ever made (not thier tv,dvd,cd players,maybe vcr)


i think if someone wants to buy bose let them, its like buying a papsi..your paying for the marketing thats all.

and the marketing says they sound great so people think they sound amazing.

my dads friend was over and asked me about my mirage om-9's i told him that they sound like crap and they were very cheap. after hearing them he looks at me and said they do sound like crap and bose is way better. now if i told him the real deal he would of thought they were great.

its all marketing people, why get so mad about it???

I was happy with my bose systems that i had, they sucked compared to others but they still sounded better then klh,sony,jbl,and other crap best buy sells.

Uh, not exactly. If you're happy with your Bose systems, then fine be happy with them. However, your cola analogy's not exactly apt because Pepsi does not cost three or four times more than Coke. What really sets Bose apart is the price premium that they add to their proucts relative to the quality and performance that the customer gets. I mean, if Pepsi cost $4 a can, we would call it what it is -- a ripoff. Same deal with Bose's Lifestyle, Wave Radio, Acoustimass, and Wave Music systems. They're not bad products per se, but compared to comparable products in their same price range, they're pretty much playing from way behind.

The KLH or JBL systems that Best Buy sells are indeed inferior to the Bose Lifestyle systems, but then again the KLH system sells for about $300, while the Lifestyle 35 sells for $2,900. Unlike Bose, those other companies are not pretending that their products represent something that they are not. If the Lifestyle 35 sold for $300, it would be a bargain, but at $2,900 it's junk. If people want to get taken in by marketing, that's fine. But, lack of due diligence for an investment of that magnitude is certainly not something I would brag about (as quite a few friends of mine who've bought Bose in the past have done).

bhd812
02-28-2004, 02:40 PM
lack of due diligence for an investment of that magnitude is certainly not something I would brag about (as quite a few friends of mine who've bought Bose in the past have done).


this I agree with, the reason why people buy bose is cause the havent heard of jamo, energy, definitive, witchcraft, blah blah blah.
these people dont do research on audio bor do they know about audioreview.com. also most of these people are two lazy or to cheap to buy a home audio magazine to see the other company ads.

when I bought my bose system I was 14 and we didnt have the internet nor did I know what I know today. but thats ok cause I learned and reseached.

I also think that harmonkardon, denon, and marantez plays the bose role a little. not as much but in thier lower price models you dont get to much as say other companies. they sound great and so does bose but again not compared to others in their price range.

this is why I laugh at anyone who buys one of these receivers on the lower price range. they spending way to much to get what they got.
I bought a few years back, a denon 2803 or 3803 or something like that, it cost around 1100i$h. then I tried the onkyo 787 that had more....loads more and blew the denon out of the water. the onkyo cost $800.
but everyone says onkyo sucks blah blah blah. well okyo had a service center a few blocks down from me, so anyway i think you get my point.

and I was comparing a pepsi with a generic name...not coke.

topspeed
02-28-2004, 04:14 PM
Is it me or does Aldo remind anyone else of TLADINY/Lexmark/Charles Howell III (or whatever it was)?

Aldo WIngate
02-28-2004, 05:23 PM
It's probably you. What are these names to which you compare 'ole Aldo?

As usual, some knucklehead makes a post that has ZERO relevence to the topic at hand. Then again, Topspeed's jonny is in his hand!

Woochifer
02-28-2004, 05:59 PM
this I agree with, the reason why people buy bose is cause the havent heard of jamo, energy, definitive, witchcraft, blah blah blah.
these people dont do research on audio bor do they know about audioreview.com. also most of these people are two lazy or to cheap to buy a home audio magazine to see the other company ads.

when I bought my bose system I was 14 and we didnt have the internet nor did I know what I know today. but thats ok cause I learned and reseached.

I also think that harmonkardon, denon, and marantez plays the bose role a little. not as much but in thier lower price models you dont get to much as say other companies. they sound great and so does bose but again not compared to others in their price range.

this is why I laugh at anyone who buys one of these receivers on the lower price range. they spending way to much to get what they got.
I bought a few years back, a denon 2803 or 3803 or something like that, it cost around 1100i$h. then I tried the onkyo 787 that had more....loads more and blew the denon out of the water. the onkyo cost $800.
but everyone says onkyo sucks blah blah blah. well okyo had a service center a few blocks down from me, so anyway i think you get my point.

and I was comparing a pepsi with a generic name...not coke.

Well, in general when you're comparing receivers, there are a LOT of variables that you need to account for before you can definitively state that one receiver blew another one "out of the water." Are you talking about sound quality, build quality, features, connectivity, reliability? Were these comparisons done using identical speakers, in the same room, and using identical default settings? Just making an observation with different speakers, in different rooms, and listenings done at different times have minimal comparative value. The differences between receivers in more controlled conditions that I've observed are more subtle than obvious.

Are you saying that entry level receivers from those companies aren't worth purchasing, while their midlevel units are? Comparing them to Bose is a bit off target, considering that I usually regard Bose's systems overpriced threefold. A $300 entry level receiver from h/k, Marantz, or Denon is hardly a ripoff in that context.

I don't know who on this board says that Onkyo sucks, they're usually mentioned as one of the recommended brands. BTW, you say that you once OWNED a Denon 2803 or 3803, and swapped that out for the Onkyo 787? To say that Onkyo model "blew away" the Denon would be rather difficult since the model in question is more than three years old, and the Denons are relatively new. Care to clarify?

markw
02-28-2004, 06:33 PM
Styling, convenience, and it fits unobtrousively in their living environment. As much as I hate to admit it, their top of the line system has a really kewl remote control. But AFAICT, it still ain't worth $3,500.

But, some people have money to burn and simply fall head over heels over the styling and wow factor. The fact it also produces music is a side effect. I like to call this stuff expensive "Audio Jewelery".

After all, Rolex doesn't keep better time than a Timex but people still love 'em.