Poll: Should we continue talking politics here?

[piece-it pete]

You know, we all know each others opinions and most of us are not going to change, and I fear we will become more and more hostile. While we respect each others audio advice, politics are dangerous to "get alonging".

That said, it could still be worth discussing things here with people we "think" we know, as we are political creatures. It can too be not only entertaining, but actually good to see and learn from others' (wrong :) ) point of view.

So, what'll it be? Yea, nay, or just don't care?

[JSE]

You know, we all know each others opinions and most of us are not going to change, and I fear we will become more and more hostile. While we respect each others audio advice, politics are dangerous to "get alonging".

That said, it could still be worth discussing things here with people we "think" we know, as we are political creatures. It can too be not only entertaining, but actually good to see and learn from others' (wrong :) ) point of view.

So, what'll it be? Yea, nay, or just don't care?


I would hate to see it go but........

I have cut way back on my political discussions of late. It seems everyone here is pretty far to the left or right whether they admit it or not and I don't think anything is going to change that. It unfortunately has become a forum of Bush Haters and Bush Supporters. Nothing in between and not really any liberal vs. conservative views. OK, I will now take part in some of this nonsense. It seems that most discussion here boil down to "I Hate Bush", "Bush is Evil", "Bush is a Liar", etc. etc. That's all good but it seems that this hatred clouds peoples true beliefs. If Bush is for it, I am against it seems to be the norm. I'm not saying everyone is like this but many are. Frankly, this is boring. It's the same old thing everytime. Look back at everysingle political post and even some non-political posts and it's almots guaranteed that someone will say they hate Bush, Bush is a Liar, Bush is Evil. blah blah blah. Get some new arguments!

Me, if you don't already know, I like Bush but I also don't hesitate to disagree with him. I can't stand his position on imigration and I think he has been way to soft in Iraq and I would like to see more resources hunting down Bin Laden.


Anyway, just my thoughts.

JSE

[Chris]

I think it kind of helps you learn about people, but you're right, it does create hostility since people tend to get too emotional. I'd like to know what everyone thinks about this.

Politics pretty much dominate all the off-topic discussions - I wish there would be other subjects discussed... maybe it would be better if we didn't allow it in order to help people talk about other subjects?

[Justlisten2]

It seems everyone here is pretty far to the left or right whether they admit it or not and I don't think anything is going to change that.

Me, if you don't already know, I like Bush but I also don't hesitate to disagree with him. I can't stand his position on imigration and I think he has been way to soft in Iraq and I would like to see more resources hunting down Bin Laden.


Anyway, just my thoughts.

JSE


It seems the whole country is to the left of you JSE, even Bush is to your left for crying out loud. That's alright, there is one man left in the US on your right, jeskibuff (Mr. Gillespie). ;)

I do agree that there doesn't seem to be much middle ground here, either left wingers or right wingers. I guess folks in the middle don't really care one way or the other, that's why they don't bother to reply. I'd say yea, keep it alive, it's the only reason I drop in. Sometimes it gets rather lively, so remember your body armor. :D

[karl k]

You know, we all know each others opinions and most of us are not going to change, and I fear we will become more and more hostile. While we respect each others audio advice, politics are dangerous to "get alonging".

That said, it could still be worth discussing things here with people we "think" we know, as we are political creatures. It can too be not only entertaining, but actually good to see and learn from others' (wrong :) ) point of view.

So, what'll it be? Yea, nay, or just don't care?Something else controversial like sex, religion, abortion, capital punishment, corporal punishment, the environment, ect. but there doesn't seem to be much "desire" about those topics. Frankly, I don't see much of a future for the off topic forum if you are prepared to remove politics. It's not really about whose going to change someones mind about it... more so(for me anyway) about understanding someone elses point and keeping educated about current events and how they will effect me personally. One of the cool things about the political discussions is the involvement of those who aren't from around here and there views on our happenings. This is also another excersize in tolerance. Learning to accept that everyone has an opinion, how to express it, and how to move on afterwards is something that is just as important as anything else you are taught in life and should continue. I don't know about you guys, but as for myself, I don't get so worked up about our discussions and try not to get anyone else (intentionally) worked up either. I try to keep personal attacks(like those targeted at/by Woodman) out of my discussions and appreciate those keeping there attacks on me out as well. I may get out of line from time to time with my humor, but most haven't taken offense to it so I continue to use it to express myself.

I haven't seen any real problem with the political discussions on the board and while there are bound to be some things that shouldn't be said, I believe we can address those in a private manner and continue to "play president" if we desire to. Everyone has some way they would change what happens daily in our world if given the oppurtunity. It would be a shame if the oppurtunity to express that were taken away because of a little irresponsibility and too much sensitivity.

Things I have learned that help me...

Live and let live.

Never start a fight, but always finish one.

(for you Pete :) ) Do unto others...

There's always someone who will be smarter than you.

The only dumb question is the one that's not asked.

There are only two kinds of people... those who agree and those who don't. Regardless, they all have something in common... they are all people.

Don't tug on Supermans cape. :p

Stupid is as stupid does.

Stabbing someone in the back only gives them the weapon to do the same to you.

[karl k]

Politics pretty much dominate all the off-topic discussions - I wish there would be other subjects discussed... maybe it would be better if we didn't allow it in order to help people talk about other subjects?
If people want to talk about something else, they will... on their own.

Besides, how many worthwhile, non-related topics can you think of that "couldn't/wouldn't" be tied to politics?

[karl k]

It seems that most discussion here boil down to "I Hate Bush", "Bush is Evil", "Bush is a Liar", etc. etc....

Frankly, this is boring. It's the same old thing everytime. Look back at everysingle political post and even some non-political posts and it's almots guaranteed that someone will say they hate Bush, Bush is a Liar, Bush is Evil. blah blah blah.JSE
Out of 23 posted topics on the most recent page, there are 10 posted topics not politically charged. That's what... about 45%?

Not too bad considering how people obviously feel about politics.

[Resident Loser]

...it was the "politics" issue that really spawned the off-topic forum...IMHO, it's better for it to have a place to go than to have it wind up sullying the other forums as it had oftimes done in the past. "General" should be just for odd-ball audio babble.

Those who wish to discuss such things know where to go...those who don't can just avoid it and not have it shoved down their throats. If it were only THAT easy in the real world!

jimHJJ(...if it gets TOO hot, you can always lock the thread and admonish the participants, right?...as someone rightly pointed out there are actually very few non-audio topics that can't devolve into a political issue...just my 2 cents...)

[gonefishin]

While there's nothing wrong with talking politics...it does seem like it's taken over.

Would other topics be discussed more freely if there wasn't so many poitical debates going on here?

I don't know for sure...but I would guess there would be.


I generally don't like forums adding forums willynilly...but how would a political forum be? like a subforum of the off topic forum

[JSE]

It seems the whole country is to the left of you JSE, even Bush is to your left for crying out loud. That's alright, there is one man left in the US on your right, jeskibuff (Mr. Gillespie). ;)


Now that's just not true? You would be suprised how close to the center I am. There is a whole lot of right to the right of me. It's just hard for you to see it when your hanging off the far edge of the left cliff by a finger. :D

JSE

[Justlisten2]

Now that's just not true? You would be suprised how close to the center I am. There is a whole lot of right to the right of me. It's just hard for you to see it when your hanging off the far edge of the left cliff by a finger. :D

JSE


Thanks JSE for my daily chuckle. I guess you won't be surprised to hear that your view is the exact opposite of mine. I'm just left of center with you hanging onto the right wing. :D

It's all a matter of perspective, the closer you are to the sh!tpile, the larger it appears.

[Chris]

I find this the only place online that I talk politics. I've only gotten over-sensitive once (JSE probably remembers), but I quickly learned that it doesn't make sense to get offended or to try and offend people because of their beliefs. It makes more sense to take in what they say (even if I don't agree at first) and to try and understand why they hold a particular view. It also makes sense to try and explain why you have the view you have.

All my friends are fairly conservative, and a couple of them tend to sound a bit insensitive, racist, homophobic, and intolerant of any views that aren't shared by Republicans. They believe that the US has never done anything wrong, and that Republicans are honest and trustworthy by default. This alone has pushed me over to the left side of the line in the past few years.

I think if people are going to get anything out of this forum when discussing politics, they need to keep an open mind. Sure, you might not change your mind, but try and listen to what people are saying. I brought up some good points in another thread, and they were totally ignored by someone with extreme liberal views. Don't get upset, and try to control yourself when you feel the need to insult someone because they don't agree with you - everything should be fine if you take things lightly.

[Resident Loser]

...and just babble on about other things(much like I've tried myself)...continued participation only encourages that sort of thing...and actually, for the most part, it seems as though the rhetoric has calmed down a tad...at least compared to the pre-"new format" days...

jimHJJ(...again, at least it seems contained to a degree...)

[jeskibuff]

It can too be not only entertaining, but actually good to see and learn from others' (wrong :) ) point of view.Amen. Learning the motivations behind what someone says is usually more important than what is being said.


You know, we all know each others opinions and most of us are not going to changeWell, there are probably a bunch of lurkers who simply read, evaluate and do not post. What about them? Besides, when a good rational argument is made to support an opposing point of view, it changes my perspective and I'm sure you've had the same responses, pete. We may not see that change translated into print, but it's a change, nonetheless, isn't it?


It makes more sense to take in what they say (even if I don't agree at first) and to try and understand why they hold a particular view. It also makes sense to try and explain why you have the view you have."Why? Why? Why?"
That's a very important question to be asked, and that should be key in the analysis of any political debate. You hit the nail on the head, Chris!


I think if people are going to get anything out of this forum when discussing politics, they need to keep an open mind. Sure, you might not change your mind, but try and listen to what people are saying.Wishful thinking, Chris. I only wish it were possible.


Don't get upset, and try to control yourself when you feel the need to insult someone because they don't agree with you - everything should be fine if you take things lightly.Well, I think this whole thread was probably a result of my recent assault on Woodman. I didn't light into him simply because he disagreed with me. With all the facts and evidence available, with all the effort put into explaining the rationale behind current events, especially in defense the Iraq war action, it is particularly annoying to be presented with what amounts to a thoughtless, ignorant answer. That answer basically boiled down to "I hate Bush because he's a bad speaker". I said in that thread that I've grown particularly intolerant of ignorant people, and I believe rightly so. If that's the best argument he can muster, he's not much better than our dearly departed BushIsALiarTroll. Now, if he had offered up something with a bit more substance, then he would deserve some respect.

We are capable of having intelligent political debates on this site. We just should not tolerate people who can only recite the BushIsALiar mantra as their defense. It offers nothing of substance besides exposing the underbelly of someone who is too weak-minded to come up with anything else. Again, as Pete so wisely stated in the first post, we can "learn from others' (wrong :) ) point of view". There just has to be a limit as to the number of times we have to be subjected to that point of view. We've ALREADY learned that it holds no basis in reality and that it's only based on emotions. Let's move on, then!