Form over function or sound before style? [Archive]

Worf101

12-01-2003, 09:17 AM

I asked this question several years ago on this site but it's been years since so I'm askin' again Sven....

When choosing a set of speakers what role do looks play in your decision? Do you go with "form over function" when buying speaks or are you a no-veneer wood box, exposed drivers kinda guy? My own tastes tend to run more with form before function. I own no "cookie cutter" mains. All my speakers are "orphaned" or weird models. Allisons, Ohm Walsh's (three sets), Epicures & EPI' s of various styles.
They might not all be considered beautiful.. but they damn sure are "different".

Where do you fall on this subject?

Da Wondering Worfster

JSE

12-01-2003, 09:28 AM

Me personally, sound before style. Wife, form over function. What I ended up with? I think a happy medium with my Bostons. Ah, marriage!

JSE

TinHere

12-01-2003, 09:48 AM

46minaudio

12-01-2003, 01:30 PM

With my Rockets I'm enjoying the best of both options. If I had to choose either form or function I would pick function. I could find a way to hide "ugly" speakers, but unpleasing sound can't be masked.

I will also add, more and more internet direct companys make it possible to have both.I read today where av123 makes some cabinets with real wood and a high quailty finish for HSU subs.Other companys such as GR reaserch,ACI,Onix,and Swan to name a few, use good parts with real wood high quality finish at a good price.At the time I bought my speakers I was unaware of these options. I bought my speakers without wood veneer(they were offered with or without),and saved the extra to buy cds.I reckon you could put me in the function camp..

bturk667

12-01-2003, 02:03 PM

Style means very little to me. You should see me dress!
I'll take sound.
The only consideration I make is in size. My room is only @ 260 sq. ft. So nothing too big, we all know how important room acoustics are.

topspeed

12-01-2003, 02:29 PM

I'm with JSE on this one. Sound for me, appearance for the wife. My first exposure to HiFi was through a pair of Klipschorns and I guarantee you, there is no amount of diamonds or groveling involved that would convince my wife to allow me to put them in the house.

I think for all of us however, no matter how much we may deny it, aesthetics played a role (no matter how small) in our evaluations. Maybe not consciously, but somewhere along the line we said to ourselves "Damn, those are cool looking." It's simply icing on the cake when form and function reconcile to make you happy :)

Good question Worf!

Jimmy C

12-01-2003, 02:35 PM

...I don't think I have much choice! I am NOT getting any Tiger-Eye (ala 800 Sig) or WilsonGloss paint, for that matter. No, I did not pick my M20s for the fat, blocky stance they have. BUT - they are impeccably finished - may/may not be a different story. Geez... $4K EXTRA for the optional finish on the B&Ws?... you can get some Ethan Allen furniture or Penn Dutch (REAL stuff) for that price...lol. Just me, though...

Best looking? Well, again... the N805 (reasonable range, and "IMO")

TinHere

12-01-2003, 02:45 PM

I will also add, more and more internet direct companys make it possible to have both.I read today where av123 makes some cabinets with real wood and a high quailty finish for HSU subs.Other companys such as GR reaserch,ACI,Onix,and Swan to name a few, use good parts with real wood high quality finish at a good price.At the time I bought my speakers I was unaware of these options. I bought my speakers without wood veneer(they were offered with or without),and saved the extra to buy cds.I reckon you could put me in the function camp..

I try to make people aware of the internet option [ok biasedly] and have touted AV123 since their onset. When a company like ACI adopts their product [ELT's for the price point] and HSU avails themselves of their capabilities, they must be doing something right. More companies are getting in line.

Here's a link that might interest you about what is likely to be happening in the future. Read what Mark Schifter has to say, or is this where you got your info? How often do you get to discuss future plans with the president of a company on an open forum? Remarkable.:cool:

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=30174#post30174

Woochifer

12-01-2003, 04:05 PM

I'm gonna cop out here and say sound before style within reason! Just as an example, as much as I love the Dynaudio Evidence Masters, if I ever won or inherited a pair of those things ($80,000 for a pair of speakers is beyond reason for me), they would be a rather poor fit for my room.

I don't mind weird looking or funky dimensions, so long as they don't require tearing down a wall to get them into the house! But, some functionality is necessary, like keeping the drivers out of view and the speaker well anchored so that the speakers don't get the short end of things when my curious doggie decides to play with those weird looking boxes that have invaded "his" house!

spacedeckman

12-01-2003, 06:50 PM

If it is really ugly I won't have any fun looking at it. So, I have a pair that look...well...nice but boring (Audiovector M1 Signature) and a pair that looks kinda cool, but still sounds good (Mirage Omni 50). Now the Mirage are no comparison to the M1s, but they are a great bargain for the money and manage to do the huge soundstage thing with good, albeit not pinpoint imaging. But, hey, there is only a $2k price difference. I still really enjoy listening to the Mirages...kind of fun.

No MBLs or other wierd things...I've got to look at them, and couldn't enjoy the music if I was laughing or feeling stupid if friends stop over.

Space

Woochifer

12-01-2003, 07:04 PM

No MBLs or other wierd things...I've got to look at them, and couldn't enjoy the music if I was laughing or feeling stupid if friends stop over.

Space

With a screen name like yours I thought you would appreciate the suborbital aesthetics of speakers like these! Obviously, these are examples where form and function have got compatibility issues.

http://www.mbl-hifi.com/products/assets/mbl101e_180x450.jpg
The MBL Reference

http://www.avantgardeusa.com/pix/index/avantgarde%20copy.jpg
Avantgarde Trio + Basshorn (obviously not designed with HDTV in mind)

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/news/0202/oheocha.jpg
The O'Heocha D2 (my all time favorite for flat out freakery)

spacedeckman

12-01-2003, 07:23 PM

The turntable I was going to buy twice before I got sideswiped by a deal on a Linn, then a VPI. I still want one, and now it too late to change my identity.

Okay, a Spacedeck is weird, but not ugly in my book, and a masterpiece in simple overkill engineering. Besides, Tom is a complete nut. A genius. Avantgarde was on my UGLY list. Sorry, recycled tuba cones don't cut it.

To each his own. I do like the "flair" of my stylish Audioprism Debut II and Mantissa though. They are pretty in an understated way.

Space

Jadog2

12-01-2003, 08:16 PM

Glad to see this thread. Ironically, Im living it right now.

The wife recently requested I get rid of my B&W 301s and LM1s.
She said the 301s are big black boxes on black stands and they clash
with the decor!

Her idea of form is the Bose Acoustimass white cubes!
Although I agree that they are closer to invisible... I just can't get myself to go there.

I tried my B&W LM1s as fronts but they were lacking.

IF you were in my situation, what setup would you recommend to a poor soul like myself? They can't be black or big.

jadgo2

Woochifer

12-01-2003, 09:02 PM

Her idea of form is the Bose Acoustimass white cubes!
Although I agree that they are closer to invisible... I just can't get myself to go there.

I tried my B&W LM1s as fronts but they were lacking.

IF you were in my situation, what setup would you recommend to a poor soul like myself? They can't be black or big.

jadgo2

Yeek! That's mental cruelty in my book! But, if you're looking for alternatives to the Acoustimass cubes, the high end stores in my area almost all stock the Gallo Acoustics Nucleus Micro satellites. They're comparable in price to the Bose AM systems, but have much better build quality and measured frequency response. Plus, you can order them in eight different colors.

http://www.roundsound.com/products/micro.html

http://www.roundsound.com/gifs/products/imagegallery/nucleusmicro2.gif

http://www.roundsound.com/gifs/products/imagegallery/microcolor.gif

Boston, Klipsch, Energy, and Paradigm offer smallish alternatives as well that cost a lot less than those Bose AM systems and sound much better. Those alternatives are available in woodgrain and I believe that the Paradigm Cinema system is available in white.

Jadog2

12-01-2003, 10:22 PM

Yeek! That's mental cruelty in my book! But, if you're looking for alternatives to the Acoustimass cubes, the high end stores in my area almost all stock the Gallo Acoustics Nucleus Micro satellites. They're comparable in price to the Bose AM systems, but have much better build quality and measured frequency response. Plus, you can order them in eight different colors.

NICCCCCE!
The little lady gave 'em the thumbs up.

I priced it out at a local dealer website. Approx. $1,500 for 5 speakers plus sub.

Thanks for the suggestion!

jadog2

happy ears

12-02-2003, 01:36 AM

Personally I would take function over form but that is just my personal tastes. When the lights are down low and my eyes are closed it is only the sound that I am hearing. The band that is playing in my head is an illusion. Do understand the wife pleasing, as my friend said they are pretty big speakers so I decided to pay for the fancy appearance to appease the future wife or girlfriend. Now there is a man thinking ahead, but for me looks or sound give me the sound.

Oh if those EPI/Epicure speakers are lonely my door is always open. Those EPI 201A sure looked boxy,

brainstu44

12-02-2003, 07:36 AM

I picked up the B&W CM2's and I think they look incredible in maple wood veneer and those brushed aluminum baffles. Plus the sound... oh the sound! I think they actually add something special to the furniture in my living room.

the hand of boredom

12-02-2003, 07:49 AM

Worfman,

Solid question.

We cherish our systems as sitting down with them is an experience to us. I believe that our sytems should be a display; a showcase, if you will, of our hard earned money.

Having said that, my opinion is that the speakers should compliment the decor of the surrounding environment.

But, the sonic quality of a speaker should never not be considered and should always be the <i>primary</i> criterion for selecting a speaker; as said before, you can't mask crappy sound.

THOB

Jadog2

12-02-2003, 08:12 AM

Worfman,
But, the sonic quality of a speaker should never not be considered and should always be the <i>primary</i> criterion for selecting a speaker; as said before, you can't mask crappy sound.
THOB

Agreed.... thats why I find it difficult finding a speaker that blends in to the surroundings that has GOOD Sonic qualities.

Sure... if your a HT guy then this is much easier to live with. But if you prefer 2 channel and others in the family listen to HT... you have a challenge. Lots of people have to deal with this 'design' challenge if they place their speakers in the Family Room or Living Room.
Im no longer a bachelor and even if I had beautiful (IMHO) mains ... they still might be too large for the wife. It all depends on the wife AND the room size AND style of decor you have going on.

For the sake of this discussion: I would rather get the small speakers for the HT in the Living room. Then for my dedicated sound room(but a dream) : I would place the biggest, ugliest, most sonic speaker I could afford in there for my 2 channel fix.

topspeed

12-02-2003, 03:12 PM

Before you sign off on the Gallo's, check out these Focal-JMLab's that another board member turned me on to.

http://www.focal-jmlab.fr/gb/home/sib-cub/download/index.htm

They look pretty sweet and Focal has an enviable rep behind it. Only downside is the sub may not be big enough for a large room. Check it out.

GaToy

12-02-2003, 07:43 PM

If your seriously into getting the best sound from your setup. How they look should come last. If you want some thing that looks good, buy a vase or a picture. When your sitting watching a movie or listening to music you can't see sound. But that just my opinion.

~C.C.~

Feanor

12-03-2003, 08:48 AM

... Do you go with "form over function" when buying speaks or are you a no-veneer wood box, exposed drivers kinda guy ...

Of course, these days I have a more-or-less dedicated listening room, otherwise WAF might prevail.

Also I have to consider placement options. Fortuantely I have enough leeway to place my Magneplanar MMGs the requisite 3" from the wall.

Worf101

12-03-2003, 01:08 PM

I can see that no-one would ever advocate "form over function". THOB I guess you're right, a beautiful speaker can't mask crappy sound no matter how beautiful it is. The optimal thing I guess is to get the closest melding (gettin Vulcan in my old age) of the two as possible. I'm happy when a manufacturer "get's it". Hsu was/is selling plenty of their VTF-3 subs but they listened to their customers and potential customer's and design a VTF-3 with good wood veneer that any wife could love... Still great sound, better look.

Form does matter unless you've a dedicated listening room or one understanding partner.

Da Worfster

RGA

12-06-2003, 05:15 PM

Bryan

12-08-2003, 08:24 AM

Like many others I'll take function over form. With my nOrhs, for example, you either love 'em or hate 'em.

http://www.norh.com/products/norh5/walnut5_1_5-s.jpg

the hand of boredom

12-08-2003, 09:12 AM

Yo dog,

I find it hard to believe that some enthusiasts would buy speakers that don't do justice to the interior decor. If one has a dedicated listening room, then I think it is ok to buy that absolute ugliest speaker that is fantastic at its job.

Would anybody here buy a pink sofa set to showcase in their living room?

THOB

RGA

12-08-2003, 11:47 AM

the hand of boredom

12-08-2003, 09:41 PM

What's wrong with Pink :mad: Maybe some of us want a career as a pimp. :cool:

P.I.M.P.in' ain't easy. <<with the porn guitar in the background>>

THOB

jbangelfish

12-09-2003, 08:39 AM

If they sounded the best, I'd take the ugliest speakers on the planet. When I listen seriously, I turn off the lights and get lost in the sound. How they look is not at all important, at least during listening. If they look cool to boot, it's a bonus but sound first, for me.
Bill

gonefishin

12-10-2003, 08:39 AM

Hi guys :D

i think it's a mixture of many things...of course, sound comes first...but, I think that many times you don't have to pick between one or the other...having all form...or all function. In many cases I think form follows function. Where the design ideas for function lead to the final form. Which you may or may not like.

If your lucky...I think some of us may approach form=function. But, I think we grow to appreciate the form of something because of our appreciation of the function (which is what brought us to like the thing in the first place)...and while form may equal function for us...the form may be unacceptable to many. Which would stand to reason (in reverse) why many people believe their small Bose Cubes equate to the same outcome of form=function (for them). They get all the function they want (or need) in a form that they like.

I mean...come on. The speakers I made sound dang stinkin' good! But are they an attractive speakers? No...not really. Do I think they look great in the living room? You betcha! I just love listening and looking at them big 'ol speakers (luckily, so does the wife). But, unless you can appreciate the function these things provide...I don't think most of the consumers in the world would say my speakers are acceptable to have in their house.

If your lucky...I think some of us may approach form=function...for ourselves :)

Jadog2

12-11-2003, 08:45 AM

Well said Fish.

Even though most of us on this forum couldn't
comprehend that Bose AMs equate to Form=Function,
people who don't understand speakers or can't
hear the difference in speakers [which is my wife,
my family, her family, and all my friends with exception
of a couple] like the Bose AMs and think that
big speakers or even bookshelfs are just the same as
Bose... only the're BIGGER.

So far I have been able to dodge the idea of going Bose AM small.
I like my B&W 302s... even though they are not expensive... they
are pleasant to my ears.

I think a compromise that may work would be to get bookshelfs that are the same size or a tad bit smaller... but get them in a color other than Black.
Even the grill can't be Black. Something about the classic stereotypical (LOL) Black Box with Grill that probably makes the Interior Decorator people roll their eyes.
j