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requiem
06-04-2004, 02:30 PM
I've read in a couple of reviews about yamaha receivers that they produce a "edgy" or "bright" sound, is this possible?

for example
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/yamaha-rx-v640-receiver-12-2003-part-1.html

in the same conditions, same CD, same speakers etc, would you nottice any difference between let's say a yamaha receiver and a harman kardon, or denon or onkyo?
assuming equal power and similar parameters in each receiver and playing a music CD in stereo or whatever but all receivers in the same mode.

uncooked
06-04-2004, 03:46 PM
depends on if you like the sound or not. i have a yamaha amp and it sounds great. "85 x 6"

depends on speakers as well, if you match them up good it will sound awsome. when i bought mine the guy suggested athenas becuase they were designed to be "bright" speakers compared to the rest. and the yamaha can really bring out the highs in music and even movies. i tested all the amps and speakers around me "within a small-ish price limit" and liked the yamaha athena combination the best.

Woochifer
06-04-2004, 06:39 PM
A lot of it is perception becoming reality. Back in the days of analog two-channel receivers, differences between different companies were more audible. A lot of it could have had to do with differences in the "zero states" with all the various tone controls and other switches used on those models. Yamahas of that vintage did subjectively have elevated levels in the highs, but their AV receivers IMO don't. In my more recent listenings, I've never detected huge "night and day" differences between comparably priced receivers. Anything I've picked up on was very subtle. Where you do pick up on more clearly audible differences is when the DSP modes are engaged, but for basic format decoding, I've never heard any difference approaching significant between the brands you mention.

If you're going to obsess about something, don't bother with the subtle differences between receivers, and focus more on the very obvious differences between speakers and read up on ways to remedy common acoustical problems. Highly reflective room surfaces will make ANY receiver sound "bright" and other acoustical issues will potentially affect all components equally.

mtrycraft
06-04-2004, 08:55 PM
I've read in a couple of reviews about yamaha receivers that they produce a "edgy" or "bright" sound, is this possible?

for example
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/yamaha-rx-v640-receiver-12-2003-part-1.html

in the same conditions, same CD, same speakers etc, would you nottice any difference between let's say a yamaha receiver and a harman kardon, or denon or onkyo?
assuming equal power and similar parameters in each receiver and playing a music CD in stereo or whatever but all receivers in the same mode.


If it did, the specs would reflect this. The specs don't, so, it is just another one of the urban legends in audio.
If you hear this, then it is on the CD, caused by your room or speakers or all 3.

Slosh
06-05-2004, 06:03 AM
I've owned integrated amps and/or receivers from Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Sony ES, and Yamaha. The Yamaha and Sony ES most definitely have a more "forward" mid-range than the others (same room, same speakers, same source components, same SPL, yada yada) but the treble isn't any more extended. My Yamaha in particular has a bit less mid-bass compared to the others and that combined with a forward mid-range makes it seem brighter, when in fact its treble is actually a bit rolled-off.

Personally, I prefer the smoother, non-fatiguing mids I get from the Marantz, Pioneer Elite, and Onkyo but you may not. I suggest you try both brands you are considering in your own home for a week each and return the one you like least. Long-term listening is where these subtle differences among amps become meaningful.

mtrycraft
06-05-2004, 08:28 PM
I've owned integrated amps and/or receivers from Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Sony ES, and Yamaha. The Yamaha and Sony ES most definitely have a more "forward" mid-range than the others (same room, same speakers, same source components, same SPL, yada yada) but the treble isn't any more extended. My Yamaha in particular has a bit less mid-bass compared to the others and that combined with a forward mid-range makes it seem brighter, when in fact its treble is actually a bit rolled-off.

Personally, I prefer the smoother, non-fatiguing mids I get from the Marantz, Pioneer Elite, and Onkyo but you may not. I suggest you try both brands you are considering in your own home for a week each and return the one you like least. Long-term listening is where these subtle differences among amps become meaningful.


You should ask those companies, or better yet, a mag review that has measurements, to see how flat the frequency response really is. I think you will find them very flat.

Beckman
06-05-2004, 09:30 PM
Could be speaker placement. I would suggest using the WASP method as described:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html
It involves shouting at walls and looking rediculous to anyone watching. Speaker placement has a huge effect on sound. Just as much as amplifier choice (in my opinion) and it doesn't cost anything, so it is worth a try.

Slosh
06-06-2004, 04:21 PM
You should ask those companies, or better yet, a mag review that has measurements, to see how flat the frequency response really is. I think you will find them very flat.

I listen to music, not academia.

mtrycraft
06-06-2004, 08:03 PM
I listen to music, not academia.


Well, that may be. But you seem to assign faults where they don't belong. Try to listen to academia once in a while. You may get the right solution to your problem, not chasing ghosts of wrongly perceived problems. But, if you are a ghosbuster, go for it.

http://chixlinx.homestead.com/files/sounds/Themes/theme_twilightzone02.wav

woodman
06-06-2004, 08:15 PM
I've read in a couple of reviews about yamaha receivers that they produce a "edgy" or "bright" sound, is this possible?

You must be careful what you choose to believe out of all the junk that drifts across your field of vision. This one is a pure, unadulterated bucket of crap! No truth to it at all. In fact, in all of my years servicing this stuff, I've never found an amplifier or receiver with flatter (better) frequency response than Yamahas routinely provide. Such opinions as what you bring up can be started for any number of reasons - not the least of which is the reviewer's "standard" or reference point. Also at play in this scenario is the listening room involved in the evaluation, the speakers involved, their positioning, the hearing acuity of the reviewer ... the list goes on and on. But once someone reaches this conclusion - then the "myth" begins, and gets repeated over and over and over and over and over and over again, until it magically transforms into "fact".

So, do not dismiss Yamaha as a possible receiver choice because of this misguided "info". IMO, they make the best, most reliable, best "supported" receivers in the industry.

Hope this helped you

Slosh
06-06-2004, 11:43 PM
snip, snip--

Try to listen to academia once in a while. You may get the right solution to your problem
snip, snip--

What problem?

ciscokid1970
06-07-2004, 08:05 AM
Although this discussion has switched topics...I will comment.

Most of the amps (quality build) have very flat response true. But now days there is much more involved with the sound that reaches the speakers.

remember gents the receiver contains digital decoding (if listening to dvd, which has a HUGE affect on the sound), preamp stage which is frequency dependant and of course the amp stage.

The reason I like receivers (or matching seperates) is that hopefully the designer has tried to get everything as equal as possible...to make all steps perfect would cost a insane amount of money.

so a receiver could sound bright (or boomy) even though the amp 'measures' flat due to one of the other components.

I just bought a new receiver by the way...and I noticed the yamaha had a strange bright yet thin quality on the upper range and missing some of the detail in the lower bass. But the 2channel analog bypass using a record or cd sounded much more pleasing. So I am guessing the DtoA was lacking a bit.

I ended up buying a Pioneer elite vsx53tx best HT receiver I have ever heard for $650.

Debbi
06-07-2004, 02:22 PM
...and to take it a step farther......If Yamaha did have some kind of strange bias, they certainly would fix it quickly....these companies buy components from a handful of mfgs in the orient and many use the same components....