My imagination is contagious....

[maxg]

Whilst I am fully prepared to accept that there is not one shred of scientific evidence that speaker cables make a difference to sound (if you have relatively short runs and cables of sufficient thickness) I am one of those that does experience differences.

To that end I have, over the years, tried and on ocasion bought many and various cables.

At home right now I have 2 sets of speaker cables, Synergistic silver cables and Van Den Hull Hybrid cables which I switch between as the mood takes me.

For me the Synergistics are clearer in the highs, the Van Den Hulls better in the bass. It is as simple as that. Can't prove it (or can't be bothered to anyway).

As it happens a chap came round to my house the other week for me to test out his own phono stage design. During the testing (with DSOTM as it happens) he commented on how little bass my system had (I was running the synergistics at the time). I agreed with him and made a mental note to switch in the Van Den Hull's when I got the chance. I didnt mention it to him.

A week later, after changing the cables, the guy was back buying some of my Vinyl collection (too little space for keeping them sadly - so I tend to rotate things out when I tire of them).

Anyway I ended up playing DSOTM for him again and he pipes up:

"What have you done? The bass is much better."

I tell him I changed the speaker cables - and only the speaker cables. He gives me the look I would imagine Mtry would give me - "Bull!"

"Honestly - just the cables."

"Cables dont make a difference."

"I know - funny that...."

We left it there. I dont think I made a believer of him - I wasnt trying to - but I had only changed the cables.....

[Rockwell]

At home right now I have 2 sets of speaker cables, Synergistic silver cables and Van Den Hull Hybrid cables which I switch between as the mood takes me.

For me the Synergistics are clearer in the highs, the Van Den Hulls better in the bass. It is as simple as that. Can't prove it (or can't be bothered to anyway).

As it happens a chap came round to my house the other week for me to test out his own phono stage design. During the testing (with DSOTM as it happens) he commented on how little bass my system had (I was running the synergistics at the time). I agreed with him and made a mental note to switch in the Van Den Hull's when I got the chance. I didnt mention it to him.

A week later, after changing the cables, the guy was back buying some of my Vinyl collection (too little space for keeping them sadly - so I tend to rotate things out when I tire of them).

Anyway I ended up playing DSOTM for him again and he pipes up:

"What have you done? The bass is much better."

I tell him I changed the speaker cables - and only the speaker cables. He gives me the look I would imagine Mtry would give me - "Bull!"

"Honestly - just the cables."

"Cables dont make a difference."

"I know - funny that...."

We left it there. I dont think I made a believer of him - I wasnt trying to - but I had only changed the cables.....

Really, you didn't change the volume in a week? I would get rid of any cable that limits bass because it could be defective or poorly engineered.

BTW, stories like this are more impressive if you use your wife instead of some vinyl expert :)

[maxg]

I had forgotten about that. My volumes controls are not continuously variable - they click from one level to the next. All listening was performed at 5 clicks (of about 20 I think) - I almost invariably listen at this level when the baby isnt asleep (2 clicks otherwise).

[Tony_Montana]

"What have you done? The bass is much better."

I tell him I changed the speaker cables - and only the speaker cables. He gives me the look I would imagine Mtry would give me - "Bull!"

"Honestly - just the cables."

"Cables dont make a difference."

"I know - funny that...."

We left it there.

I am surprise that curiosity didn't get the best of him by asking you to replace the cables with Silver again to see if bass disappeared as was noted. "We left it there" really leave too many unanswered questions up in the air and only add to the mysticism.

In a situation like this, it is best to follow up on it to see if really the bass does disappear by swapping the cables-rather than to try to convince him. I would invite him over for a [cable swapping] listening session to get to the bottom of this (if both of you are curious). Given that he does not in belive in cables making a difference, might make the evaluation session interesting :)

[mtrycraft]

BTW, stories like this are more impressive if you use your wife instead of some vinyl expert :)


Or, if you have a statistics professor telling it with his wife as the subject :)

[maxg]

I am surprise that curiosity didn't get the best of him by asking you to replace the cables with Silver again to see if bass disappeared as was noted. "We left it there" really leave too many unanswered questions up in the air and only add to the mysticism.

In a situation like this, it is best to follow up on it to see if really the bass does disappear by swapping the cables-rather than to try to convince him. I would invite him over for a [cable swapping] listening session to get to the bottom of this (if both of you are curious). Given that he does not in belive in cables making a difference, might make the evaluation session interesting :)

I could have but the guy was really just interested in buying some of my vinyl. I dont need to do the test for myself - I already believe. He, on the other hand, wasnt really that interested in following up and getting the silver cables out just wasnt the issue of the day.

Of course if I had it really wouldnt have held up any better as an anecdotal story than it does now. The nay-sayers want scientific method and proof - cant blame them for that - but it is not something I am planning to get into real soon.

[Monstrous Mike]

I could have but the guy was really just interested in buying some of my vinyl. I dont need to do the test for myself - I already believe. He, on the other hand, wasnt really that interested in following up and getting the silver cables out just wasnt the issue of the day.

Of course if I had it really wouldnt have held up any better as an anecdotal story than it does now. The nay-sayers want scientific method and proof - cant blame them for that - but it is not something I am planning to get into real soon.
If I was you I would find those guys who are offering a $1000 to prove you can hear cable differences. If you are as certain as you are with those two particular cables, it's an easy grand, don't you think?

[pctower]

If I was you I would find those guys who are offering a $1000 to prove you can hear cable differences. If you are as certain as you are with those two particular cables, it's an easy grand, don't you think?

it's an easy grand, don't you think?

I'd forego the chance of winning 10 grand just to avoid the public humiliation that would no doubt follow if I failed the test.

[maxg]

Not being one to fear public humiliation - how do I go about applying for this? - and what are the terms? Will they test me at my house? With my system? My music?

Do I just have to correctly identify which wire is being used?

[Monstrous Mike]

Not being one to fear public humiliation - how do I go about applying for this? - and what are the terms? Will they test me at my house? With my system? My music?

Do I just have to correctly identify which wire is being used?
Here is a guy I believe knows something about this. He is a member at this forum.

Norm Strong [normanstrong@comcast.net]

[mtrycraft]

Not being one to fear public humiliation - how do I go about applying for this? - and what are the terms? Will they test me at my house? With my system? My music?

Do I just have to correctly identify which wire is being used?


Richard Green who used to post here but not lately, offered such a prize. Not sure if that was to one individual or an open call.
Rec Audio opinion had a $4K offer.
Stewart Pinkerton at Rec Audio High End, lives in England, has such an offere there too, if I am not mistaken :)

[maxg]

Well lets try to find the best offer - if I am going to do this and make a fool of myself I may as well do it for the largest amount of money on offer..

As it happens my mind has been turning over ways to demonstrate the differences in speaker wire (and interconnects - actually that would be easier I think) and I am formulating the following:

Setup a mono CD to play through a single speaker (say on the left channel only) using one wire.

Record a small section of the playback to a WAV file.

Remove the speaker cable an re-insert it, the repeat.

Now replace the wire with the other one.

Repeat the above process, twice as before:

As far as I can see (so obviously I am missing something) assuming my mike is sensitive enough the waveforms should be different between the 2 wires, but not different when simply plugging in and removing the same wire.

Assuming the 2 waveforms from each wire are close enough to each other to ascertain that I do not have some other cause of difference the comparison of the waveforms from the 2 cables can be shown to proove differences - or otherwise. Overlaying one on top of the other would highlight this.

Of course it doesnt prove that differences are actually audible - but lets start with differences and work on from there....

Thoughts?

[okiemax]

Not being one to fear public humiliation - how do I go about applying for this? - and what are the terms? Will they test me at my house? With my system? My music?

Do I just have to correctly identify which wire is being used?

I suspect the talk of offers to pay anyone who can hear differences in cables is just a lot of posturing. I haven't seen any offer on cables in writing, and I wouldn't consider an offer serious unless it was legally binding. If you really want to pursue the matter, ask for a formal offer. For some previous discussion on the subject, see my thread on "Offers" 4-18-2004.

[Bill L]

I have the same problem with my cables too. They just don't understand physics and go on changing the sound anyway. And lately they've got the power cords doing it, and now the wall outlets are getting all pompous about their contribution. I just go with it.

[Beckman]

I once made a set of cables out of CAT 5 cable. I heard a difference, the bass was muddy, overall the sound was terrible. I think it is very possible to here a difference in comparing a 12 gauge zip cord cable to high inductance/capacitance cable.

As for power cords, utter nonsense. You would be much better off upgrading a components power supply (in some cases) than upgrading the power cord. It is pure and simple electrical engineering, and electric & magnetic fields.

[pctower]

I suspect the talk of offers to pay anyone who can hear differences in cables is just a lot of posturing. I haven't seen any offer on cables in writing, and I wouldn't consider an offer serious unless it was legally binding. If you really want to pursue the matter, ask for a formal offer. For some previous discussion on the subject, see my thread on "Offers" 4-18-2004.

Richard Greene has repeatedly made the offer here and at AA - $1000 if I recall correctly. From everything I know about Richard, he is as solid as they come. I would trust him - writing or no writing.

Just my personal opinion.

[Bill L]

I told my outlets and power cords about your opinion. They just don't care what you think and go on changing the sound anyway. Especially the outlets. Go figure.

[okiemax]

Not being one to fear public humiliation - how do I go about applying for this? - and what are the terms? Will they test me at my house? With my system? My music?

Do I just have to correctly identify which wire is being used?

I haven't seen the offer, but pctower says he recalls Richard BassNut Greene making a $1,000 offer over at AudioAsylum.I couldn't find it with a search of the site Forum, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I believe you can contact Richard through the site, although you may have to join first(free of course). He should be able to tell you what you want to know. If you find out anything, please let us know. Here is a link:

http://www.audioasylum.com/index.html

[Rockwell]

I told my outlets and power cords about your opinion. They just don't care what you think and go on changing the sound anyway. Especially the outlets. Go figure.

Talking to outlets, eh? I think you have bigger problems. :eek:

[Bill L]

And I listen to them too...

[Rockwell]

And I listen to them too...

Good, a dialog is always better. Watch out, those outlets can be very sassy!

[mtrycraft]

Especially the outlets. Go figure.


Easy to figure. Imagination is overwhelming at times for some people. Nothing to figure.

[mtrycraft]

Talking to outlets, eh? I think you have bigger problems. :eek:


Talking to them is not the problem. I do that:) mostly curse at them.
When he gets a response, that is a problem:D

[LumbermanSVO]

Richard Clark's offer is $10k. Check out www.autosound2000.com for contact info. Have fun :)

[LumbermanSVO]

You can also set everything up with him publicly on the forums at www.carsound.com

[mtrycraft]

Richard Clark's offer is $10k. Check out www.autosound2000.com for contact info. Have fun :)


Can you provide the link to the offer? I looked but didn't see it yet.

[LumbermanSVO]

It took some digging.

http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=020445#000002

For some entertainment do a search for "challenge" in is forum, there are a couple hours of reading.

[mtrycraft]

It took some digging.

http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=020445#000002

For some entertainment do a search for "challenge" in is forum, there are a couple hours of reading.


Thanks for the link. Searching for the key word didn't do anything for me :) Not an easy place to navigate.

[LumbermanSVO]

If you have some time to kill do a search for "challenge" in RC's forum :)