Yes RGA has a speaker dilemma - do I upgrade? LOL.

[RGA]

Yes the staunch praise of the K/Spe not with standing I have a chance at the J/SPe. I had been entertaining the purchase of two Adire Rava subwoofers but my room is just a master bedroom roughly 12X15. I have a single bed, my computer and stand and along the short wall are my K's a tv stand with 27inch JVC and stereo stand(which desperately needs replacing being a piece of junk).

My dealer has several subs from M&K, Paradigm Reference, B&W etc.

He has said he would give me 100% trade in of my K/SPe forthe J/SPe which. The tweeter in the J is 1 inch instead of .75 and uses a foam instead of rubber surround. The J also triple in the volume of the box.

Audio Note rates the J SPe at 25hz-6db while Hi-Fi Choice measured the speaker as rating at 20hz -3db. Interestingly some of the subs I was looking dont rate as low though no doubt will play at louder levels.

"Not as sensitive as the bigger floorstanders in this test, the AN-J/SPe still musters a full 89.5dB (re. 2.83V/1m) from its essentially undamped, reflex-loaded cabinet.

Neither is the load especially tough with a minimum 5 Ohm at 150Hz and an average of 12.3 Ohm to keep any valve amps from wheezing. The port resonance looks very broad indeed, providing a deal of reinforcement from 20Hz-90Hz (-3dB points) while the driver itself rolls off to 60Hz (-6dB).

Bass distortion remains very low indeed at ~0.15-0.2% but climbs closer to 0.6% through the midrange where the pulp-coned bass/mid driver is obviously working a little harder.

Indeed, an averaged 3rd-octave trace shows the axial response of the AN-J/Spe to be divided into two 'halves' - above and below 800Hz where there's a step in the response due to a driver/baffle cancellation.

Off axis, the step is less apparent, but there's an increase in bass heaviness and loss of presence." http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_print.asp?ID=1577

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1203/audionoteloudspeakers.htm

Naturally I would have to listen. I'm only really considering this because they have two left and what the hell if it sounds similar but more of it why not. I know what the K and E sound like so the J should be a go between. Rochlin seemed to thinkt he E didn't have it all over the J so it's interesting.

I already felt the K was much better than the N805 but the J would still be $500.00 Less than the N805 with this deal.

Only downside is from the foam longjevity point of view and I would have to give up the beautiful Cherry wood for plain black.

Ohh the upgraditis. The J/SPe(New but last year's) I can get for $2500.00Cdn(~$1800US) less $1500.00(~1100US) for my speakers. A new J/SPe sells for $3,575US and is basically the same but nicer finishes and no grill cloth. http://www.triodeandco.com/Prod_Loudspeakers.html

LOL = gotta spend the student loan on something.

[Jimmy C]

...Hell-bent on having two subs - my single REL works fabulously. I do understand twins have their advantages, but not in the one situation I have heard them in. I would rather my one REL than the two Hsu. As long as you can demo the Adire...

I have never heard the ANs (soon... they are 30 miles away from me) so I can't comment on any diffs.

Another piece of non-audio advice... keep MOST of the loan in the bank!

Good luck with the bass quest...

[RGA]

Yes I plan to keep the loan in the bank. I'm using line of credit for the courses. This way when I graduate and I have to re-pay this enormous $55,000.00 loan(plus about $8k on lin o credit) I will have maybe $8-9k in the bank to be able to make the loan payments.

So what's another grand in the big scheme of things.

Heck I can still buy a sub later on as well - ohh the bass it does become a premium.

[topspeed]

There's good debt and there's bad debt RGA. Guess which one your line of credit is? I have no idea how far along you are in your studies nor do I know what your projected starting salary is but adding to your debt for something a frivolous as a toy...yes, it's a toy boys and girls...is being very short-sighted. I have two friends that are Neurologists as well as audiophiles. Both were saddled with ENORMOUS student loans (bigger than most home mortgages) yet were bright enough to deny their desires for instant gratification until they were in the working world earning a mid-six figure salary. Now they have everything they want and pay cash for them.

Your smarter than this RGA, your speakers are fine. Don't believe me? Go listen to them again.

[RGA]

The enormous debt is all school related. I have one and a half years to go and will be a teacher. The total time is 5 and a half years but I will have a Bachelor of arts and a Bachelor of Education and of course the teaching certificate.

And no teachers don't get a whole lot more than they do in the U.S. The starting wage is roughly $40,000.00Cdn in British Columbia and about $32,000.00Cdn in Ontario (The maximum after 12 years and a master's degree is $57,000Cdn) of which the government takes roughly 30% in tax plus whatever the Union takes. That is of course if I can get a job.

I plan to go to Japan to teach English because they pay over $40,000.00Cdn but they suupply the flight and the rent. SO the plan is to work and also work on the side to pay the loan down as fast as possible before the interest begins to start. I project 2 years in Japan to pay the loans completely off.

There are teacher shortages expected because less people are moving into the field - I worked in accounting so from a financial perspective it is not surprising given the wages why there would be a shortage of teachers since accounting is IMO a far easier profession takes no longer a time or loan commitment and pays at least double the maximum rate a teacher can make (and if you're a good accountant considerably more than quadruple). But alas it's not all about the money - it's about the snotty kids who try to shoot you and irate parents mad at the lack of good resources - :) seriously it's a good career - they just don't make it easy for new graduates. Unlike Law and Medicine you are not going to get gobs of money to pay the student loan off and buy a 3 million dollar home within two years.

I am pausing however. I'm thinking $1000.00 is a lot of money - and my audio system is more than good enough...and I'm not displeased with the bass I get as it is. When I can get up there I will audition against the K and it will have to bowl me over. I will also compare the K with a sub against the J by itself which makes sense to me.

The money could get me a nice new television and a digital camera with money to buy some cds - so that puts $1k into perspective. Still the E I heard was and is an amasing speaker and the J to some is liked more...so we'll see.

[kexodusc]

I've never heard the K's but my unlce is a big AN nut and owns the J's. His advice to you is buy them after you pay off your student loan. Definitely a step up.
Oh, and black is plain, but good...you can put black speakers in any room, with any colour scheme.

Don't get too excited about Japan, I lasted 4 months there, the pay isn't as great as you're lead to believe after all the hidden claw-back taxes, and it's awefully expensive to live. Tons of cheap electronics though.

IMO you're better off teaching in a place like Winnipeg, New Brunswick or North Dakota or somewhere cheap to live.
I've spent a few years in both Canada and the USA working now...taxes are actually very, very similar, in some places the US is higher actually, just collected differently...oh and then there's the no health care thing...I just don't plan on getting sick or hurt.
LOL
Can you guys imagine RGA as a teacher?
"Okay class, spell harsh"
"N-A-D"
"now spell tinny"
"P-a-r-a-d-i-g-m"
"Good job class"

[RGA]

Hahahaha - now that was a good one kexodusc.

It's a bit funny because I finished my grade 2 practicum and the TV and VCR they had for the school were just so bad you sure would not want to teach something on them.

I'll be bringing my own TV and DVD player if I actually want students to be able to see and hear and video material.

This upcoming year we do a practicum in high school. I have a couple girlfriends who are going to Japan so I'll find out. It depends a lot on the outfit you go with. You don't want to be in a big city like Tokyo but smaller cities are supposedly cheaper. And you have to go for 2 years to avoid Canadian taxes.

One guy I know was on pace to make over $80,000 in Taiwan and they tax almost nothing. His rent was $250.00a month and was a fairly big place.

It's also that I like to travel. Ideally I could find a job on Vancouver Island - if you've not been here it is basically like New Zealand but not quite as hot.

[thepogue]

NEVER buy until you can listen...

Don't beleive all you read in the hi-fi rags...

don't buy cuz of what your salesman tells ya...

you DO remember saying the above dont you?...ahhh young lad....how fickled we have become!!!

relax and buy some Paradigms, you know something you'll be happy wiff for more than a year or so......then you won't be hoping around like a frog on a hot lilly pad....

hehe I'm good...I'm really really good...in a bad kinda way ;)

Peace, Pogue

[RGA]

Yes I need a refresher in my own good advice. As I say the main reason is that this kind of deal will not likely avail itself again. Beasically the J is $2500.00Cdn. The new models are $5000.00Cdn +/- couple $100.00.

Basically, it would not be unlike owning 20's and getting the 100V3 for a couple hundred bucks extra. Same relative structure to the sound but with a deeper bottom end.

The other issue is I intend to eventually buy their amplifiers - moving to an all An set-up since it's the best stereo I have ever heard it makles sense to me - higher sensitivity would be nice as sensitivity = higher dynamic capability generally and the best speakers I have heard over the years are high sensitivity designs.

But I will not make a move for at least 5 weeks so I will ask for an in home trial and compare the two - as well as comparing the sub K combo.

I am also a person who often likes the sound of standmounts than floorstanders and in AN's case possibly the K more than the J. The K is sealed the J is ported - so there will be a diffrence in the "type" of bass response.

[thepogue]

get them in yer house and give us the "low-down"...and stop droolin all over yerself...ya silly man!


good luck! Peace, Pogue

[92135011]

RGA, you already know the answer dont you?

[kexodusc]

RGA: I could do some quick math and show you how $1000 at 6% interest (or whatever your credit line is) over 10 years or longer can double, triple or worse...
But I won't.
Do what I did, use your signing bonus for your job, or some income tax rebates to buy new gear.

Don't try the 2 jobs thing...cause then you end up with nice gear you can never listen too :(
And work is for chumps anyway!

[thepogue]

RGA: I could do some quick math and show you how $1000 at 6% interest (or whatever your credit line is) over 10 years or longer can double, triple or worse...
But I won't.
Do what I did, use your signing bonus for your job, or some income tax rebates to buy new gear.

Don't try the 2 jobs thing...cause then you end up with nice gear you can never listen too :(
And work is for chumps anyway!i didnt know you were a "downeaster"!...i lived in Machias for 4 years (brrrrr ;) I worked for the navy in Cutler.....i kinda miss "Tourny" time watching some of the best B-ball I've ever seen!

Peace, Pogue

[RGA]

kexodusc

But remember I was in accounting and know a few loop-holes. While I take student loans there is no interest. Then when I graduate I have 6 months to find a job and start working. At the 6th month mark they begin collecting interest and your payment - which is around Prime plus 2% being the unfriendly government.

Now, if you are not working you can get the government to give you another 6 month period - so basically a year. During that 6 months if I'm in Japan and have pulled in 20K. The government comes a knocking and I can make a payment of around $13K.

I also have an option currently to take out several thousand from my RRSPs. Because I am not earning anything I can take up to $7600.00 in RRSPs and not be taxed. It is the only time this would work for me and not get taxed because I have no other income.

LOL - can you see me trying to justify it :) hahaha sacrifice the RRSP for speakers...but hey I could die in a year so fat help the RRSP's are going to do me. But the sweet sweet music aaaaagggghhgghgghghgh (Homer Simpson Gargle!!!).

[kexodusc]

Great, I probably shouldn't tell you your interest payments on Canada Student Loans are tax deductable too...
Okay, then buy the speakers.
That's what I did.
Still paying for it, one minimum monthly payment at a time.
BTW: Isn't or wasn't Audio Note a Japanese based company?
Since you're going to Japan, any chance you'll find any cool speakers over there? In wild and crazy colo(u)rs??
(Damn they've got to universal-ize this freakin' language).

[RGA]

Great, I probably shouldn't tell you your interest payments on Canada Student Loans are tax deductable too...
Okay, then buy the speakers.
That's what I did.
Still paying for it, one minimum monthly payment at a time.
BTW: Isn't or wasn't Audio Note a Japanese based company?
Since you're going to Japan, any chance you'll find any cool speakers over there? In wild and crazy colo(u)rs??
(Damn they've got to universal-ize this freakin' language).

Holy cow I didn't know the interest was tax deducatable. Really? Oh well then look at that that's like a $2000.00 boon.

Yes there is an Audio Note Japan but it is a separate company. Kondo-San and Peter Qvortrup had a falling out because Kondo started to build push pull amplification or some such reason. Peter wanted to make the stuff more affordable but not move from Single Ended designs - I was reading past posts on AA about their falling out. Audio Note UK formed somewhere on here http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?forum=speakers&searchtext=Audio+Note+Kondo

I figure since I don't own a car a thousand bucks is no big deal in the big scheme of things. Whether it's better enough will be something I will have to decide.

[92135011]

Doubt any of US can afford AN japan's gear. All their stuff is handmade from the resistors all the way to their transformers. They are so crazy about making their own parts that they closed down their facility for 2 weeks so that Kondo San could make a resistor. Yes...2 working weeks for a resistor. Of course, this all equates to mega costs. Think most of their stuff is in the 10s of thousands.
Get a tour at their factory if you can RGA, the report from enjoythemusic.com says that its definately worth the time.

[kexodusc]

Yeah, only Canada/Provincial student loans are deductable, so pay off your bank debts first. Taking the tax credit into consideration, the prime + 2% government charges is actually much lower than prime, making it your cheapest debt burden. And hopefully you've been able to save your tuition credits and not had to use them every year. Tax refunds are cool.
I bought a sweet Rotel amp and had a local friend of mine who owns a DIY-er shop build me a pair of exceptionally nice Vifa driven speakers for my studio.

About AN Japan - There must get to be a point where some of these super expensive speakers built from scratch by bare hand just add cost to the consumer over some large-scale manufacturers like Klipsh or whoever? Sure they sound nice, but when you build 5,000 speakers vs. 100,000 speakers, somethings got to give. I guess on the flipside, some mass-manufacturers probably make the odd compromise or take a shortcut to facilitate production.
Does AN Japan just cater to it's existing AN consumers, and the occasional new-comer?
Do their speakers sound that much better than their UK namesake's?

Oh, and not owning a car saves you $40-$60 bucks a week...I was in Montreal last week, over $55 to fill my Accord. Yikes.

[Bryan]

Keep what you have as that is what you are happy with. Do you want to look at plain, dull, uninteresting black speakers or would you prefer to look at the warm, inviting look of the cherry that begs to be adored. IMO, you will be happier in the long run by keep what you have now.

[RGA]

Yeah, only Canada/Provincial student loans are deductable, so pay off your bank debts first. Taking the tax credit into consideration, the prime + 2% government charges is actually much lower than prime, making it your cheapest debt burden. And hopefully you've been able to save your tuition credits and not had to use them every year. Tax refunds are cool.
I bought a sweet Rotel amp and had a local friend of mine who owns a DIY-er shop build me a pair of exceptionally nice Vifa driven speakers for my studio.

About AN Japan - There must get to be a point where some of these super expensive speakers built from scratch by bare hand just add cost to the consumer over some large-scale manufacturers like Klipsh or whoever? Sure they sound nice, but when you build 5,000 speakers vs. 100,000 speakers, somethings got to give. I guess on the flipside, some mass-manufacturers probably make the odd compromise or take a shortcut to facilitate production.
Does AN Japan just cater to it's existing AN consumers, and the occasional new-comer?
Do their speakers sound that much better than their UK namesake's?

Oh, and not owning a car saves you $40-$60 bucks a week...I was in Montreal last week, over $55 to fill my Accord. Yikes.

Yes I will get to deduct all the Tuition loans on my income. Not owning a car is huge - maintenance gas and insurance. The bus costs me $150.00 for 4 months. Nanaimo is pretty small so cabs to clubs are $10-$15.00 and I rarely go. I don't smoke and I drink socially. $1000.00 bucks to a drinking smoking car owner could be used up easily in two months.

Audio Note Japan can only sell in Japan I believe. They basically make a lot of the same stuff. The OnGaku-On is made by both outfits but AN UK has made a much cheaper version which some say is better. Well Cheap is $49,900 compared to $87,000. LOL.

AN UK makes the exotic expensive stuff but also makes affordable gear which is probably the only reason I have ever heard of the company. If you charge stratospheric prices not many dealers can take it on - only the very big dealers. AN-UK is responsible for the DACs - they will no longer be making Transports though because Sony (who supplied AN) apparently changed their design.

As for price well of course the price goes way up when you make fewer units all else being equal. But all else is not equal as we know. For instance AN uses real wood and good wood instead of plastic, AN does not have a huge workforce to pay or big facilities to pay for. They don't advertise.

The big guys though make their stuff internally so they don't outsource(how much that saves is unknown - and whether what they build internally is better than what a company like Vifa or SEAS can make when that is ALL they do is another issue). B&W not to pick on them because I do like their sound, is advertised in virtually every issue of every stereo magazine all year all the time - and sometimes more than one ad each issue to sell a few different lines.

Plus they come out with a newly designed speaker every 3 - 5 years which costs money whether the speaker is actually better well - compare a Matrix speaker witha Nautilus speaker and I'm not so surethat the speakers didn't get a bit worse.

The other thing is that AN is built in Britain so you are certainly paying a large premium for labour where as say a Quad 21L is built in China. I am not a person who thinks it really matters where it is built so long as the QC is well executed. There is no question in my mind that AN's prices are "HIGH".

But I think they are smart about WHERE they prices are high. The entry level cd players amps speakers don't seem to be out of whack with everyone elses speakers - and indeed maybe a better bargain. Where they make up for this is no doubt in the 30-40k version of the E. I don't care if they use the best grade of silver on the planet or $1000.00 worth of Alnico magnets and Balck Gate caps - the Box is the same with the exception of nicer wood prints and lacquer - and even if they spend an extra 4 hours of labour to match pair everything a bit more can the price be justified to go up $26K to 36KUS. LOL No.

But then on the other hand if the shopper goes in and listens to them against what others $30k-40K speakers are going for it's not for me to argue. They sell them and let's face it when you're speaker looks like the E looks and you are charging $20K --- you had BETTER be making one hell of a good sounding speaker because B&W looks absolutely gorgeous.

The mark-up is way higher on their expensive gear - but there is very little extra sheet metal on a Lexus as there is on a Tercel and the labour is no more than 30hours on any Toyota. So why does one cost 80k and the other 14k? A better example is why one truck is $20K and you add in some power options/Air/heated seats etc and the price goes to $46,000.00 There is no option set that can possibly justify an ampount that more than doubles the price of the base version. But people buy it and it does make for a nicer ride I guess.

Of course I take the bus - biggest engine on the road - and chauffer driven - can't beat that -- it's all in the way you look at it.

[Woochifer]

Sounds like your dealer's got a 100% upgrade offer on the books, but unless you got an impending expiration on that offer, why the urge to upgrade now? Unless you really got a compelling reason to upgrade, I would leave well enough alone, especially if you can't pay for it absent those student loans. At the end of the day, you're still a student and have already got more audio than most working stiffs will ever get even after they start pulling six-figure paychecks.

I paid cash for every bit of audio gear I bought in college. It limited my choices, but it also ensured that I would not buy stuff that was clearly beyond my means, and keeping my debt down to a minimum was a great feeling once I started working. (And graduating from college in the middle of a recession meant that I wound up dipping into my credit just for basic living expenses until I could find a steady job; THAT was when I was truly thankful that I did not max out my debt while in school) And I must have liked something about my college system since I wound up keeping it as my everyday system for 14 years.

The Adire Rava's a nice subwoofer for the money and for a room of your size, I'm not sure you would need two of them. (in fact, for a 15x12 room, two would likely be overkill and difficult to control for since you're almost certain to get peaking in at least one of the lower frequencies) Since you don't plan on using them for home theater, the sub can conceivably sit in the middle of the front wall between the two mains, and while that may not be the best location for bass reinforcement, it's least likely to give away its location over there since you have no time delay to account for.

You're not too far from the Seattle area, which is where Adire's facility is located. I'm sure they would be glad to demo any of their subs and main speakers (they are also the distributor for Antique Sound Lab, and have a lineup of high efficiency speakers designed for tube equipment).

[Debbi]

Begging for teachers and giving credentials to anyone with degree even without education courses.....could probably get 38,000 US to start, and with currency situation, audio stuff would be 30% less...my retired IBM brother doing sub teaching work when he feels like it....get free tan and new sultry sound from Audio Notes in heavy humid air...judging from your posts, you could be a success here without trying too hard and maybe find an audio niche....dont sell yourself short....

[RGA]

Here's a concern as to why I will delay with the sub if I ever go that route. My folks who I'm roommating with until school ends are in their late 60's.

I am basiclaly living in a large bedroom with my own tv, computer, bed, chairs etc. My wharfedales are in the living room. When I graduate I plan to travel to Japan for roughy two years to pay off the student loan. I need to leave for two years to avoid Canadian income tax on monies I make outside of Canada. I love travelling so part of this decision is that I gotta get away so to me it's a working holliday.

So I have the choice of basically keeping the K's and wait and wait and then 2years till I graduate and two years in Japan and then come back here - or I suppose possibly the United States - can teach the grade 12's about real beer eh? :-) Err and why Marijuana should be legalized and sold and taxed. :-) Marijuana is BC's largest cash crop and a 6 billion dollar a year industry in BC. Time to tax it.

I digress. The Audio Notes are relatively light a sub is not and I don't want to leave that kinda thing for the folks.

The problem with the adire is 3 fold:

1) I have no vehicle and cannot get to Seattle - any other way to get there would cost a large sum of money.

2) Importing the sub to Canada is a nightmare to end all nightmares. Duty/brokerage charges are based on weight - I bought a print from the louvre for $16.00Cdn and ended up running $89.00 after shipping and brokerage and duty. I will be dinged both Canadian taxes which is 14% plus the poor conversion rate our dollar musters. The subwoofer could conceivably run close to $1000.00Cdn.

3) I am also taking it to a three way system with the sub and the sub with the K will reach into the audible range above 20hz. My experience is that one sub for subsonics is ok but not if it is expected to also act as a woofer in a 3-way. The Audio Notes are apparently designed with the side wall rear wall and height all incorpoated into the speaker(which is why they need to be positioned correctly. The J is basically a full range speaker on its own.

Also Audio Note is currently working on a subwoofer for the E. They have spent 4 years on it and it might be ready next year - it is a Single Ended Tube powered sub (of course) using 845 tubes.

And then I won't get the full trade -up value of my speaker and the current J/SPe models go for $3600.00US which likely will keep rising over the next few years.

The price is driving this to be sure because I don't even know if I will like them. But I have yet to dislike what I have heard and they are basically a scaled down E. I'm not in a rush - I can't get to my dealer for at least 5 weeks - 8 weeks. And I will want to try a sealed sub with my K. They carry B&W and the ASW 600 gets a lot of praise(not sure if it's the sealed model). So I will hear how that combo works.

Financially it's not the best thing in the world to do - I have always paid cash for this hobby. But alas it's only money...after all I could have stayed in accounting and made triple what I will make as a teacher here.

Debbi - the situation in the States is abysmal when it comes to teaching. Because the pay is so poor (and you have idiotic government statements from George Bush like we deman accountability) no one enters the profession. Accountability in other professions is very high and you get very high pay to go with the responsibility - but $24,000 in California which my friend made is not good enough when you owe 60kCdn - even $24,000 U.S. funds does not go far in the U.S. Hell you probably make more as a swing manager at McDonalds.

The fact that they are hiring people without credentials should be getting people upset. We have had recruiters at My university from the US offerring $50,000US and pretty nice signing bonuses - but in NY. They're desperate to find teachers maybe but to a lot of Canadians the impression is - right or wrong - that you'll be shot if you leave the house after dark. A nurse in my apartment building went Florida and came back because she souldn't go out jogging by herslef after dark - Florida??? Then they had that thing where they were shooting rental cars because they knew they were tourists. These things impact on travellers and certainly people looking to work and live there.

Michael Moore's movie was a little heavy handed and Canadians do lock their doors at night unlike his Bowling for Columbine - but some parts are pretty accurate.

And the taxes in the US are a lot better and if you're right you guys pay as much to get teachers in some statesas they do in Japan - and yet most people graduating here don't even consider the U.S. as a place to teach or live. We have a lot of students come from the US to go to our universities (cheaper I guess) - many have said they will not go back - despite the higher taxes and our own problems.

The perception though is always worse when a Republican is in charge - I find it odd since both parties seem to move more or less to the center - but perception is everything.

I have travelled a lot in the U.S. so I would have less of a problem going to the States - the above was illustrating a perception most people here "Seem" to have about the U.S. CNN and the talking heads add "fear to the fire" which doesn't help and everything seems to be very "ME" oriented in the states. Lack of free health care rings like well you can die if you can't pay. We get horror stories like if a paramedic comes and you don't have your blue cross or whatever they will not take you to the hospital and leave you to die. Or doctors won't stop to help you because if they do you can sue them after "for trying to save you" LOL. And then the drug costs - all the Seniors come up here to buy the drugs they need because they can afford it - odd since we get the drugs from your drug companies but sell them way less. This all adds up to hearless drug companies heartless for profit doctors/nusres/ and corrupt insurance companies. And since the government doesn't do anything about then they are deemed to be in bed with the insurance companies.

It kinda sounds like you gotta make a lot of moey if you're going to feel secure and someone could send you to the poor house overnight by sueing you over nothing.

LOL, Canada is basically now Paranoid about the U.S.

[kexodusc]

RGA: That was some post...lol
where to begin...
Dude, duty and brokerage are not based on weight at all...rather harmonized tariff codes, for speakers built in North America, Nafta exempts them, therefore no duty. For foreign speakers, about 7 to 8%.
Trick is to mail them to an American you know, have him mail them to you for far less than the selling price, declared as a gift, yadda yadda. Or spend 2 days in the USA and get a $250 expemtion. Or spend 7 days and get $750 to bring back. Use to work for Canada/USA customs...need advice, e-mail me.

Second, as a Canadian living in the USA...taxes are not lower here, not by a longshot. Boy did I ever fall for that one. I've lived in North Dakota, Georgia and now Maine, both relatively low cost states. Marginal Tax rates are just as bad, just calculated and collected differently.

Third, in 2 years haven't seen 1 gun. When visiting Toronto at christmas, there were 2 murders in the week I was there. Michael Moore...well, interesting movies, but when you start with a premise and conclusion and just find a way to film from point a to point b, the documentary loses some credibility. Most of the 300 million americans don't live in fear. They don't all get mugged or shot. Most seem to find ways to get medicine and have life expectancy's equal to Canada.

"LOL, Canada is basically now Paranoid about the U.S."
WTF??? Is there a crop fire in B.C. giving everyone the munchies and inspiring conspiracy theories?

You're right, unfortunately perception is everything. USA is nothing like Rick Mercer and the Globe & Mail's anti-usa diatribe would suggest.

You could do well in Florida.

[RGA]

Hey I love Disneyworld...guess I'm a big kid. And the Tampa Bay Lightning are doing awesome - the D-Rays - well they're even more frustrating than the Jays - and that's doing something.

Best of all I'd be a foreigner - the chicks love that :) Yeah Canada isn't too foreign I know.

I never saw a gun in any of my travels either. The one point Michael Moore made that is abundantly correct is that the media wants to generate fear - and that is why there is an invalid perception. The highest murder rate per 1000 people is guess where? The Northwest Territories.

As I say I would have no problem living in the States. And C'mon Rick Mercer is kinda funny - but to be fair if you asked Joe Canadian who the governor of Wyoming is(or if they even had a governor) who the hell here would know. And since our Prime Minister's are as boring as a stoned salmon then why should anyone care to know know who they are? I only wish I could forget. I bet many Americans older than 40 would likely remember Pierre Trudeau - say what you will about the pompous ass he was certainly colourful.

Thanks for the info on the sub. I would need to listen before I buy - there is a dealer apparently in Canada who might soon be dealing Adire home audio - which would save the hassle.

[Woochifer]

Second, as a Canadian living in the USA...taxes are not lower here, not by a longshot. Boy did I ever fall for that one. I've lived in North Dakota, Georgia and now Maine, both relatively low cost states. Marginal Tax rates are just as bad, just calculated and collected differently.

It would also depend on which state you're living in and whether or not you're a property owner. Some states have no income tax, while others have no sales tax, and yet others have limits on property taxes. The U.S. tradition of home-rule means that you'll have a big disparity in both taxes and services from state to state.


Third, in 2 years haven't seen 1 gun. When visiting Toronto at christmas, there were 2 murders in the week I was there. Michael Moore...well, interesting movies, but when you start with a premise and conclusion and just find a way to film from point a to point b, the documentary loses some credibility. Most of the 300 million americans don't live in fear. They don't all get mugged or shot. Most seem to find ways to get medicine and have life expectancy's equal to Canada.

From having studied this as a case study for a statistics class, I can tell you that compared to the rest of the world, the U.S. IS a more dangerous place. It doesn't mean that we're all packing .45s in our glove compartments and doing target practice on one another during the daily commute (although I grew up in L.A. where freeway shootings occur on a fairly regular basis), but it does mean that something's going on here that occurs less frequently in other industrialized nations. Just the fact that you actually remembered that there were two murders in the week that you visited Toronto means that it's still considered a big deal over there. I live in the Bay Area, which has about the same metro population as Toronto, and having two murders in Oakland or San Francisco in one week would hardly generate a ripple newswise.

When I visited Toronto a few years ago for an urban planning conference, I think that in all of Metro Toronto (which covered about 3 million residents) the year before there were a total of 80 murders. In Oakland alone that same year, there were nearly 200 murders, and about the same number in San Francisco (and that only accounts for 1.3 million of the 6 million or so residents in the metro Bay Area region). During that trip, I met several people from Quebec, B.C., and Alberta, and they were remarking about how "dangerous" and "dirty" Toronto was! (I would hate to see how they would react to San Francisco, which has a much higher crime rate and is visibly dirtier than anyplace I saw in Toronto)

On the streetcar, I wound up striking up a conversation with somebody who had moved to Toronto from South-Central L.A., and when the subject of drive-by shootings inevitably came up, several other people in that streetcar chimed in about "that drive-by shooting last summer". To me, the fact that everybody was talking about the same drive-by shooting was very telling. If you'd had that same conversation in L.A. or Oakland, good luck trying to get everyone on the same page about a drive-by shooting from last week!

And in my statistical case study, after comparing crime stats and potential causal effects for countries from around the world, the only variable I could not account for was the gun ownership. I'm not saying that guns alone make a place more dangerous, but they were the only factor I measured that I could not rule out as a causal effect for higher murder rates.

[RGA]

Wooch

Taxes differe here from province to province. The federal government has GST of 7% and each province has its own provincial tax on all items purchased. So in BC that is 7.5% plus the 7% GST. In Alberta and the Northwest Territories there is no provincial tax. Wages are different for similar things - a Teacher in BC will start at 40k but in Ontario would be $32000. Which is why they can't find teachers in Ontario. The Northwest Territories has distance pay and probably start at 50k - but the heating and light costs are very high. Plus it takes a certain personality to live 3 months without any sunshine and another 3 months without any darkness.

I agree that in general the US is a more violent place - even on my trip to Disneyland the day before we arrived the bus-driver that took people from the hotel to Disneyland was shot and killed for no apparent reason.

Michael Moore lived in Detroit or somewhere near the Canadian border and had a good view of both. So I don't want to totally discredit him or overly praise him. He made a note that on a per capita basis Canadians own just as many guns as Americans...then he says that guns must not be the problem there is something in the people. Of course then he goes after the NRA whichis odd because if guns are not the problem like he said early in his movie then why would you go after the gun-owners? But regardless - i think it has more to do with the type of guns and poverty.

If you're poor you more likely to steal. I mean if my family was starving to death and it's my kid or your tv sorry I'm stealing your tv. Desperation is abound. Plus people seem to be able to buy incredibly powerful non-hunting weapons. Canadian gun owners own them for hunting - that's all that is allowed. But you see people down there with repeating weapons and sawed off shotguns. Those kids at Columbine had a stupid amount of firepower which seemingly ANYONE can buy - even at Wal-mart.

What that means is that any normal person who gets a bit depressed over being fired can take his oozie to work and kill everyone - here you'd probably have to wait 6 months for all the government forms ---so you'd probably just take some pills and be doen with it. :)

What you say about Toronto is interesting because it's probably the most violent least clean of the big cities. Vancouver has a few less than desirable streets - Hastings is an utter mess that you would prefer to drive down than walk down - but most of them are heroin addicts and prostitutes that are more desparate than anything(you feel more uneasy because of their situation or feel sorry for them than you're really threatened) - It's not like it's gang infested. That area is about 4 square blocks and I can think of no other area that is even that bad in the entire province.

But we did have Pickton the Pig farmer who killed a lot of prostiutes which you probably know more about than I. In Canada the press does not get inside info on any crime until the person is actually proven guilty. And no names of minors is ever put out there guilty or not. This alleviates the public opinion fiasco which turns into a circus...but the intenet no doubt will get around this.

Car rage has been examined as well - it is that no fear in a box mentality that overrides judgement. People are just so impatient these days. After moving to the Island and going back to Vancouver I'm amazed at how busy everyone is to get nowhere - but they just gotta get to that light 2 seconds before you do even if they have to cut off three people and ride four bumpers to do it?

And then I drove to California - LOL - now that was a harrowing experience for a newbie. I was running out of gas and turned off the freeway to some area. For blocks all I saw was grafiti big guys wearing chains LOL. Admittedly it may be a stereotype but it does give one a bit of pause when You don't see any white people. I'm not racist but they pound you with that show cops and you think gee should I get out and get gas at the shoddy looking station? Especially when I had just watched the movie Grand Canyon. LOL - probably had nothing to worry about - but ...

Come to our Island one day... http://www.britishcolumbia.com/regions/towns/?townID=58

[Woochifer]

The problem with the adire is 3 fold:

1) I have no vehicle and cannot get to Seattle - any other way to get there would cost a large sum of money.

2) Importing the sub to Canada is a nightmare to end all nightmares. Duty/brokerage charges are based on weight - I bought a print from the louvre for $16.00Cdn and ended up running $89.00 after shipping and brokerage and duty. I will be dinged both Canadian taxes which is 14% plus the poor conversion rate our dollar musters. The subwoofer could conceivably run close to $1000.00Cdn.

3) I am also taking it to a three way system with the sub and the sub with the K will reach into the audible range above 20hz. My experience is that one sub for subsonics is ok but not if it is expected to also act as a woofer in a 3-way. The Audio Notes are apparently designed with the side wall rear wall and height all incorpoated into the speaker(which is why they need to be positioned correctly. The J is basically a full range speaker on its own.

If you're into travel, Seattle's a great place to visit. Why not make a weekender out of it? While you tour the Adire facility, you could also ask for a demo of their Parthenon driver (the one that uses a square diaphragm and can produce reference levels below 20 Hz with no enclosure).

If you want an idea of how the Adire Rava might behave in your room, the B&W ASW650 is an equivalent design because it's a sealed box with a paper/Kevlar mix in a 12" driver (the ASW600 uses a 10" driver). The Rava might still have higher output because its driver has a maximum excursion of about 2", but the two models should be otherwise comparable. I would have seriously considered the B&W had it been available at the time I bought my subwoofer. Atlantic Technology also makes a lineup of sealed subs with at least one model in the $500USD range.


Debbi - the situation in the States is abysmal when it comes to teaching. Because the pay is so poor (and you have idiotic government statements from George Bush like we deman accountability) no one enters the profession. Accountability in other professions is very high and you get very high pay to go with the responsibility - but $24,000 in California which my friend made is not good enough when you owe 60kCdn - even $24,000 U.S. funds does not go far in the U.S. Hell you probably make more as a swing manager at McDonalds.

The fact that they are hiring people without credentials should be getting people upset. We have had recruiters at My university from the US offerring $50,000US and pretty nice signing bonuses - but in NY. They're desperate to find teachers maybe but to a lot of Canadians the impression is - right or wrong - that you'll be shot if you leave the house after dark. A nurse in my apartment building went Florida and came back because she souldn't go out jogging by herslef after dark - Florida??? Then they had that thing where they were shooting rental cars because they knew they were tourists. These things impact on travellers and certainly people looking to work and live there.

As with most subjects along these lines, you don't want to overly generalize. Several of the teachers I know earn $60k+ a year, but they are either in well funded school districts or they teach special ed which requires a master's degree. (I doubt that a McDonald's manager can make that much, but an In-N-Out manager probably can.) I know a couple of others who are teaching because of an emergency provision that lets teachers into the classroom with a partial credential. They all have four-year degrees and are qualified to teach the subjects, but they just don't have the full credential yet. Even as emergency instructors, they were still earning well into the mid-$30k range. And one thing about teaching is that you also get three months off. With one family I know, the husband and wife both teach high school, and with two kids, they take the entire summer off together. Considering how well the kids have turned out, I think there's something to be said for that as a lifestyle choice, even if the pay's not up to the same level as other professions.

The reason why you got these emergency provisions (at least in California) is basically a demographic time bomb exploding. With the baby boomers' kids moving through the school system, it created a huge uptick in the number of school aged kids during the 90s. Coupled with normal inmigration, it way outstripped the available resources in a short time. In the mid-70s and 80s, school districts were shutting down schools because school spaces that expanded in the 50s and 60s to accommodate the baby boomers were no longer needed. But, once the 90s struck, the demand for classes way outpaced the available space, and the university systems were not producing enough teachers. And that problem persists, though it will probably subside in the next 5-10 years.

As far as crime goes, the U.S. crime rate has been going down throughout the 1990s, and is significantly lower than where it was when I did my statistical case study on crime and causal factors in college. But, you gotta ask why is it that crime went down during that time? Just look at the demographics. The U.S. crime rate peaked about the same time that the proportion of 15-35 year old males (typically the peak crime committing years) peaked, and their proportion of the population pretty much declined throughout the 90s. Now, despite three strikes laws, indeterminant sentencing, etc., the crime rate is starting to go up again. It's no coincidence that the 15-35 year old male share of the population has begun to increase again. Crime is a multivariate phenomenon tied to a maze of factors, but the demographic angle is something that's very often ignored. If you want to see the effect of demographics in full bloom, just wait a few years and see how the Federal deficits will balloon out and the stock market gains level out once the baby boomers start retiring and the number of 35-55 year olds (those adults in their peak earning years) declines.

Don't know how it is now, but at one point, Miami did have one of the highest violent crime rates in the country. Yet, even at its most dangerous period, you had millions of people living in the area who were never victims of crime. So much of it comes down to perception. I don't give much credence to the sensational stories like rental cars getting shot out because they are outliers and don't involve a large number of cases. Those stories get reported because they are unusual and random. Anywhere you're much likelier to fall prey to the more garden variety crimes like breaking and entering, or robbery, but those are not going to get reported because they occur so much more frequently. I mean, the city where my parents live has the lowest crime rate of any U.S. city with a 100,000+ population, yet my mom now feels paranoid because a friend who lives a few streets over had their house burglarized.

[Woochifer]

What you say about Toronto is interesting because it's probably the most violent least clean of the big cities. Vancouver has a few less than desirable streets - Hastings is an utter mess that you would prefer to drive down than walk down - but most of them are heroin addicts and prostitutes that are more desparate than anything(you feel more uneasy because of their situation or feel sorry for them than you're really threatened) - It's not like it's gang infested. That area is about 4 square blocks and I can think of no other area that is even that bad in the entire province.

Well, I dunno, I just visited Montreal and thought that town in general was noticeably dirtier than Toronto (maybe comparing Yonge St. with Rue Ste. Catherine is a wash). This was disappointing because I remember the other conference attendees from Montreal and Vancouver especially who were telling me how much safer and cleaner their towns were. (of course, I'm also aware that Toronto is viewed by Canadians the same way that a lot of Americans view New York, so I tend to not take those pronouncements too literally) Then again, both of those towns were still a lot cleaner than San Francisco. But, there are definitely subtle differences in how people conduct themselves when they know that a certain area is not as safe. Just comparing the body language (things like eye contact and body posturing) of people riding the subways and buses in Toronto or Montreal with New York, Chicago, or San Francisco late night, it just seemed that the Canadians were less defensive.


And then I drove to California - LOL - now that was a harrowing experience for a newbie. I was running out of gas and turned off the freeway to some area. For blocks all I saw was grafiti big guys wearing chains LOL. Admittedly it may be a stereotype but it does give one a bit of pause when You don't see any white people. I'm not racist but they pound you with that show cops and you think gee should I get out and get gas at the shoddy looking station? Especially when I had just watched the movie Grand Canyon. LOL - probably had nothing to worry about - but ...

Come to our Island one day... http://www.britishcolumbia.com/regions/towns/?townID=58

And you wonder what all that bulletproof glass means? Actually, it's usually okay if you just take care of business and don't linger abouts. (And make sure that you're not stranded somewhere without a phone -- good luck trying to find a functioning payphone anywhere in L.A.; it's nothing like Bell Canada where you got working payphones with credit card readers on every corner) Living in L.A. and spending time in some of the rougher neighborhoods on various projects, you get a feel for how to act and how to get by. It's really not that different from anyplace else, but you just need to be aware that locals can easily distinguish you from someone that actually lives in the neighborhood. But, for a first timer, I can imagine that it would be scary. (like my first experience getting lost in Chicago, and having no clue about the type of neighborhood I was in)

Considering how often I've been to Seattle the past couple of years, I really should go north of the border in this time zone. One of these daze...

[RGA]

And of course anything out of the ordinary or new to a person can be a bit freaky. The media is a driver for fear. Moore was correct that when the actual crime goes down say 10% the media coverage of crime went up way higher - this was supported in a criminology course about recividism rates. The Media belts out the one guy they let out who was a rapist who then raped again but they don't tell you of the 99.7 who don't. Of course it's hard to explain that to the victims.

Seattle is a nice city - I used to go down and watch the Jays play the M's all the time - still have yet to see their new park. I may have a chance if the Jays play em in August - I can split the cost with a friend.

Thanks for the info on the ASW 650 - it will give me an idea.

As for Toronto I was born in Brampton and a big Leafs fan - shudder - and there is a west versus east mentality - people in the west think the east are self centered blah blah blah. I think though I would rather live in Vancouver if I had a choice - less snow more rain.

Seattle and Vancouer are similar but the city here will not allow major freeways into the city - Seattle has those huge levelled highways criss-crossing and it all makes it industrial looking. You can take a ferry from Seattle to Victoria and then a few hours up the coast to Tofino (which I have not been myself yet) is supposed to be spectacular - lot of Newlyweds take a cabin on the ocean and go whale watching.

[92135011]

The highest murder rate per 1000 people is guess where? The Northwest Territories.


When I was in one of my guidance classes in high school, we watched these videos on drugs and stuff. Lots of people in NWT do drugs because of this top reason: There is nothing to do. Or said the kids they interviewed there. Drugs lead to crime and crime leads to more crime, such as homicide. This is another reason why they give you 50 grand to start as a teacher there I suppose?

[kexodusc]

Yeah, generally speakers and subs are cheaper in Canada than in the USA anyway. Amplifiers and receivers however...not even close.

Yeah Rick Mercer is funny, but c'mon with Prime Minister Tim Horton in Canadian Congress, anybody could make a career mocking the Canadian political scene...