Let me get something straight about projectors... [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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DeNoN_MaN
11-27-2003, 10:01 PM
Ok,

Lemme start out by saying I want a projector that displays a 16:9 image on a 16:9 screen.

Now, I was looking at the Mitsubishi XD300U. This is a 4:3 native aspect ratio. However, it says it can project in 16:9 also.

Is this "16:9 projected image" the same as my 4:3 TV displaying a 16:9 DVD? Or is it a total change - something to the effect of a 16:9 widescreen TV?

Very puzzled, would like to know the answer to this.

As always,

~DeNoN_MaN

IsmaVA
11-28-2003, 12:28 PM
Ok,

Lemme start out by saying I want a projector that displays a 16:9 image on a 16:9 screen.

Now, I was looking at the Mitsubishi XD300U. This is a 4:3 native aspect ratio. However, it says it can project in 16:9 also.

Is this "16:9 projected image" the same as my 4:3 TV displaying a 16:9 DVD? Or is it a total change - something to the effect of a 16:9 widescreen TV?

Very puzzled, would like to know the answer to this.

As always,

~DeNoN_MaN

4:3 native aspect ration means that the image generator is 4:3.

A projector is just a projector, it will project whatever image it is feed (within its capabilities of course).

So, a 4:3 projector will produce a 16:9 image, however it will not be using the complete image generating chip. In that sense it will be the same as a 4:3 tv displaying a widescreen image, there will be black bars at the top and bottom of the chip.

spacedeckman
11-28-2003, 11:20 PM
1) Get a native 16:9 projector. If you are on a budget, get an LCD. If you can dump 10K, get a DLP. If you want cheap, Sony has one that isn't bad for $3k, the Yamaha LCD just dropped to $4500 according to my local custom install buddy who is a dealer. I've seen it and like it a lot, he is pretty rabidly attached to that one. He has one in his showroom. Toshiba has a pretty good one at about $4k.

2) Don't get a projector designed for computer presentations and expect it to work for movies. Processing is what separates the men from the boys

3) Don't get hung up on light output ratings.

4) Unless you are going to be WAY back, don't go over 106" screen with a fixed pixel display projector. (LCD or DLP) That is about the limit for an 8' wall anyway.

That is most of the important stuff I know about projectors.

Geoffcin
11-30-2003, 10:52 AM
Hi Denon,

I've done some homework in this area, and you have several good options, depending on how much you want to spend. Remember, you have to allow for a good screen too, and those can cost quite a bit!

Here's some reccomendations;

Panasonic PT-AE300 native 16:9

NEC HT1000 native 16:9

Mitsubishi XD300U 4:3

Yes, it will display 16:9, but you will have bars on top & bottom, so you will have to mask the screen if you want it to be not noticable.

DeNoN_MaN
11-30-2003, 08:17 PM
Hi Denon,

I've done some homework in this area, and you have several good options, depending on how much you want to spend. Remember, you have to allow for a good screen too, and those can cost quite a bit!

Here's some reccomendations;

Panasonic PT-AE300 native 16:9

NEC HT1000 native 16:9

Mitsubishi XD300U 4:3

Yes, it will display 16:9, but you will have bars on top & bottom, so you will have to mask the screen if you want it to be not noticable.

Hmm...

I think I will only go with a native 16:9 projector. I want to spend around $3000 for the projector.

Say I want an 84-100 inch screen, how much is a decent quality screen going to run me?

I was looking at the NEC that you mentioned and it seems like a pretty good deal except that it's a 4:3 native. And I would prefer the Mits. over it in that case.

I went shopping yesterday and found a dealer who had the $10,000 Runco on display and I was blown away. Apparently he has an LG projector that is very good and competes with the image of the Runco. He ordered a new bulb for it and will be able to show it to me on Saturday.

I've never heard anything about LG projectors. They dont have much information on them at projectorcentral.com, which is suprising, because they normally have all the major options handy.

So basically, if I get a native 4:3 projector, I'll need a 4:3 screen. From now on, I'll only be looking at 16:9 then.

Also, which resolution is the screendoor effect on LCDs visible at? Is this an issue at all anymore? I like the DLP technology more than LCD because from what I've read it has less shortcomings (higher resolution, no screendoor, etc.)

~DeNoN_MaN

spacedeckman
12-02-2003, 07:12 PM
Don't go near a $3k DLP, it'll be nasty. I haven't seen any of those projos, but was impressed with the $3k Sony I mentioned. A screen, depending on what you want will run you anywhere from $350 to 800 or more if you want fancy. Please, dear God, don't buy a gray screen like a lot of people will tell you to do. They are awful. The make people look dead and kill colors, taking all of the "snap" out of the picture.

Modern LCDs don't really have the screen door thing anymore unless you try to go too big on the screen size and sit too close. DLPs will do it too, since both are fixed pixel displays. Also, make sure you are getting HD compatibility.

DeNoN_MaN
12-03-2003, 01:42 PM
leaning towards the Sony VPL-HS20.

Here are the specs: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-HS20.htm

It's the big brother of the HS10.

Anyone know anything about either of these units?

Thanks

~DeNoN_MaN

richieb
12-07-2003, 08:10 PM
The screendoor effect only rears its ugly head when your too close to the screen, and I noticed it more on a Sharp DLP ($3000 ish model) than I did on the Sony HS10. But like I Said, its how close you are to the screen.

16:9 projectors will inevitably be brighter due to the shorter height span compared to a 4:3 projector. The more lines of resolution, the brighter the picture gets.

The Sony HS20 is worth a look, but don't knock the Sanyo PLV-Z2 which is taking the projector world by storm and can be delivered for less than $2k and has comparable results to the HS20.

I was waiting for the HS20, but I have since changed my mind and I'm now going for the Sanyo and putting an extra 1k into my sound system.

IsmaVA
12-08-2003, 06:58 AM
>>16:9 projectors will inevitably be brighter due to the shorter height span compared to a 4:3 projector. The more lines of resolution, the brighter the picture gets.


A higher resolution will mean birghter picture in any CRT-based unit, however, not so in LCD or DLP.

CRT emit light, so more lines means more light. LCD and DLP are not light emitting, the rely on an external light source (external to the image generating device, not to the whole unit) to be visible. Higher resolution means that the available light must be divided into more "lines" so the available "light per line" decreases.

For a given screen size 16:9 is brighter due to their slightly reduce area (about 90% of a 4:3 image).

Also, since DLP is a reflective device the contrast ratio is generally higher than LCD (which is a transmissive device).

magictooth
12-15-2003, 02:39 PM
Don't go near a $3k DLP, it'll be nasty. I haven't seen any of those projos, but was impressed with the $3k Sony I mentioned. A screen, depending on what you want will run you anywhere from $350 to 800 or more if you want fancy. Please, dear God, don't buy a gray screen like a lot of people will tell you to do. They are awful. The make people look dead and kill colors, taking all of the "snap" out of the picture.

Hi!

I've got to disagree here. A low end DLP <i>MAY </i> look nasty if you are susceptible to rainbow artifacts. However, at $3K, the colour wheel is likely a 4-6X wheel. With a speed like this, the picture should be very watchable. A grey screen is also NOT a bad buy. In fact, I think that it is a great buy, if you get the right one. When you say it kills the picture, you've probably seen the cheap grey screens. You've got to look at the gain of the screen. As an example, the Stewart Grayhawk has a gain of .85, while the upper end model, the Firehawk has a gain of 1.3. This means that the Firehawk should give you a lot more sizzle and snap compared to your plain old matte white screen. In addition to that, you get a relative increase in the contrast, and this makes for an even better visual feast.

Denonman,

I've got the NEC HT-1000 set up on 16:9. The reason I can do this is because I have complete control of the lighting in the room. In effect what you are getting here is the complete elimination of about 200 vertical pixels. Instead of the resolution being 1024x768, you get 1024x576. This resolution is exactly the same as the new TI Matterhorn DLP chip. By shrinking down the number of pixels, I also reduce the lumen output (200 pixels are shut down and don't project any light).

Don't close your mind to a native 4:3 machine such as the NEC - especially when you are comparing it to the HS10 (which I've seen) or the HS20 (which I haven't seen). They can still work very well for you if you've got the right environment.

Dave

spacedeckman
12-15-2003, 06:51 PM
Its all about tradeoffs. Even with the higher gain like a Firehawk, you still have a gray screen. You don't get white, you get gray. You can polish dog doo-doo until it shines, but in the end it is still doo-doo. The gray helps cheapo projectors appear to increase black level. The tradeoff is that you give up white, or true colors of any sort. Instead of "snap", everything looks dingy and dirty. It was a bad idea for everyone but Stewart who made a good pile of money off of the decision. Differentiation isn't always better, sometimes it's just different, in a not so good way.

Cheap DLP projectors have very little in the way of video processing and were intended for computer presentations. Often these things are rebadged for a good "polish" effect. Most are also 1st generation 4x3 chips, strike two and three. You are much better served with an LCD at that price point since it is a cheaper medium and more money can be spent on good rather than evil.

I will have to agree to disagree on both fronts, but it is hard to argue with the laws of physics on the first. Gray cannot and will not reflect white, and flesh tones with a gray cast makes for "Night of the Living Dead".

IsmaVA
12-16-2003, 07:23 AM
Before anything else I must admit that I have never compared a white screen with a white screen.

That been said, it seems to me that you are to fixated in the "it is a gray screen" thing. Comapring a gray screen with a white screen is not the same as comparing a white wall with a gray wall. The screen might be gray, but its reflective properties are much more dependent on its coating matrix than just the color of the screen.

My point is that gray can definitively reflect white if it has a dichroic coating.

However, I do not know if gray sreens have this type of coating.

magictooth
12-16-2003, 09:08 AM
Spaceman,

Ummmm, have you seen a Firehawk Screen vs. plain matte white? Where money isn't the object, I'd go with the Firehawk (this is what I use). In my room, the walls are midnight blue and the ceiling is a medium grey. When there is no white colour in the room and there is a darkened environment, the brain gets tricked into thinking that grey looks white. It may be that there are some projectors that don't look as nice on a Firehawk, but I'll leave that subjective assessment to the individual buying the screen.

As for cheap DLP being a bad choice, once again, there are a lot of factors that come into play. Crappy deinterlacer, crappy scalers, crappy resolution, crappy colour wheel, etc... are out there waiting for the next sucker to buy them. However, there are options: the Infocus X1 is a $999 DLP projector that looks very good. Obviously it has its shortcomings, but if you look at the price, the value that you get is considerable. The processing, while not the latest model of Faroudja DCDi or whatever flavour du jour, is probably on par with the your basic TV or other basic LCD projector. Saying that, the Sanyo Z2 (I've seen the Z1 model), is likely a good LCD choice - probably better than your Sony HS10 or 20, but the price of this piece jumps up to close to $2K.

So I'd disagree with your disagreement on both accounts as well. There's only one person that can settle this for himself and that's Denonman. He's got both sides of the argument, and he can basically go and shop for himself.

Dave