New stereo, unsure about sound.

[nahmed]

Hi,

I recently bought these components:

Denon DRA-395 80 watt AMP - $315
Denon DCM280 5-disc CD Changer - $180
Paradigm Titans - $200/pair
Speaker Stands - $65/pair

The problem is, I am ambivalent (read: concerned) about the sound. I am also unsure of the proper settings to make b/c I listen to piano/classical as well as hard rock/metal and everything in between. Some settings are good for classical but create to much bass when playing metal, and I don't want to have to change the settings everytime I change music style.

The Denon amp has bass/treble controls from -12db, 0, +12db in 2db increments. Also, there is a loudness button, which according to the manual is to equalize sound when playing at low volume (in my opinion, playing heavy metal at high volume with the loudness setting "on" really drives the speakers well, but not for other types of music.)

I have always thought the Titans have too much bass, and have been fiddling with the different settings to correct it. Do you guys even set bass/treble on your amp, or listen to the "natural sound".

Maybe I should buy different speakers. Funny thing is when I was auditioning the speakers (Atoms actually) they were hooked up wrong at the store. The left speaker was the Paradigm Atom but the right speaker was an NHT (of same size, model I do not know). I thought: "these Atoms sound good, but only from the right side!" However, the NHT's were out of my price range and the salesmen told me they were power hungry, so I forgot about them. After deciding the Atoms were too small I sprang for the Titans (both speakers which I was not totally impressed with at the store, but I thought once I bring them home they will sound better :) ). Or maybe it is my amp that is not performing?

Sorry for the long post; any comments, suggestions. I would like a speaker (less than 600?) that really fills the (small) room with sound and hits hard when I turn up the volume for some Zeppelin or Damageplan, yet, plays piano (and other classical) music distinctly.

regards
Nadeem

[nahmed]

As a follow up, I feel the sound is getting "lost in the box" with the Titans I have.

regards
Nadeem

[Wireworm5]

As a follow up, I feel the sound is getting "lost in the box" with the Titans I have.

regards
Nadeem
I assume your budget is in US dollars. Since I'm familiar with Paradigm I recommend the monitor 7's. I would also consider the B&W DM 602's. The problem is, these speakers need a good amp/receiver to sound their best and I'm not certain your Denon can drive these adequately being you have an entry level model. Because of this I also recommend Cerwin Vega's E-708 or E-710 which is probably more in line with your budget. I have the LS-8 which is the same as the 708's. These can deliver reasonably good sound and can handle lots of bass.
Tone controls are a matter of preferance. But to overcome the defiancies you describe your right in considering a better speaker. I like lots of treble but have the bass flat when listening through my computer soundcard. With dvd concert videos the recording quality is usually very good and I don't use any tone controls.

[N. Abstentia]

I also think a better amp would be the key...probably something in the $500 range.

[markw]

Hi,

I recently bought these components:

Denon DRA-395 80 watt AMP - $315
Denon DCM280 5-disc CD Changer - $180
Paradigm Titans - $200/pair
Speaker Stands - $65/pair

The problem is, I am ambivalent (read: concerned) about the sound. I am also unsure of the proper settings to make b/c I listen to piano/classical as well as hard rock/metal and everything in between. Some settings are good for classical but create to much bass when playing metal, and I don't want to have to change the settings everytime I change music style.Not all recordings are created equal. The overall sound can vary greatly depending on the type of music and the recording engineers personal taste.




The Denon amp has bass/treble controls from -12db, 0, +12db in 2db increments. Also, there is a loudness button, which according to the manual is to equalize sound when playing at low volume (in my opinion, playing heavy metal at high volume with the loudness setting "on" really drives the speakers well, but not for other types of music.)Tone controls can be nice but one should not need to changed for every recording. If you do, there might be a disparity between the listeners expectations of what their system can do and the reality of the source recordings. See above comment for more on this.




I have always thought the Titans have too much bass, and have been fiddling with the different settings to correct it. Do you guys even set bass/treble on your amp, or listen to the "natural sound".If I did, that would indicate I've either purchased the wrongs speakers or my expectations of what the system can deliver far outreach the reality of the system's abilities.




Maybe I should buy different speakers.You might be on to something here.




Funny thing is when I was auditioning the speakers (Atoms actually) they were hooked up wrong at the store. The left speaker was the Paradigm Atom but the right speaker was an NHT (of same size, model I do not know). I thought: "these Atoms sound good, but only from the right side!" After deciding the Atoms were too small I sprang for the Titans (both speakers which I was not totally impressed with at the store, but I thought once I bring them home they will sound better ).


KNOWING you were listening to the NHT's and preferred them to the (too small) Atoms, you then listened to ,and were underwhelmed by, the Titans. Still, you purchased the Titans? Did you somehow expect the Titans to magically sound like the NHT's in your home? Think carefully about this. Will they allow you to return the Titans?




However, the NHT's were out of my price range and the salesmen told me they were power hungry, so I forgot about them. After deciding the Atoms were too small I sprang for the Titans (both speakers which I was not totally impressed with at the store, but I thought once I bring them home they will sound better :) ). Or maybe it is my amp that is not performing?Amps have some part in the equation but ultimately it's the speakers that determine the overall sound. True, there are better amps out there but you'r amp doesn't suck and not all speakers are exteremely power hungry.




Sorry for the long post; any comments, suggestions. I would like a speaker (less than 600?) that really fills the (small) room with sound and hits hard when I turn up the volume for some Zeppelin or Damageplan, yet, plays piano (and other classical) music distinctly. Again, no speaker is prefect. Depending on your tastes (and the recording engineers taste as well), not ALL speakers will sound perfect on ALL recordings but should sound at least very good on most without constantly needing to alter the tone controls. Again, this also depends on your expectations of the system in the first place.

Some compromises may be in order here. Determine your priorties and then go back shopping. My maggies do classical quite well (no, make that VERY well) but, even with a subwoofer, are not my first choice for hard rock.

As far as recommendations on other speakers, a lot depends on what's available where you are. Not knowing that, it's hard to recommend other speakers.

[Resident Loser]

...play with what you have...

Based on some quick research, the Denon's bass control is +/- 12db@ 100Hz, and while not specified, the loudness compensation is probably in or about +6db @100Hz(an educated guesstimate)...

The Paradigms are mfr. spec'd within +/- 2db from 60hz-20kHz and another site measures +/- 2db 70Hz-14kHz...close enogh for government work...

Your bass "problem"(based on those numbers) would seem to be well below the effective range of the recievers' tone control...all you will do by using the bass and loudness controls is to add boost centered @100Hz, which doesn't seem to be where the fault lies.

Music is music...whether it's Mozart or Zepplin...hi-fi, balanced sound is just that...balanced, regardless of who is playing what. Your preference to hearing exagerated, bass-heavy metal is just a bad habit. By that I mean, you have listened so wrong for so long you have conditioned yourself to believing that bass heavy thump, thump is somehow accurate reproduction. There should be no reason you can't switch between Beethoven's "Emporer" and Zep's "Houses Of The Holy"...

Any system, any really good system, strikes that balance(and I don't mean compromise) that should allow all forms of music to sound equally good, very democratic. Judicious use of tone controls, should really be left for adjustment of poor source material; re-adjustment depending on what you are listening to is no sign of system defect or weakness...and the loudness control is really meant for lower volume listening.

Earlier I said to "play" with what you have...the Paradigms are small enough to experiment with room placement...closer to rear walls and corners may augment the range <70hz, but it may also upset freqs above. However, you may find a position that strikes a pleasing balance. Of course, you must do this with tone controls flat or defeated and loudness compensation "off"...This will provide a baseline...you may actually find that by augmenting the lower freqs by physical placement, you may have to LOWER the bass control a notch or two...If that fails, you could try for a powered subwoofer which might work out well, since the Titans seem to measure well otherwise.

Then, of course, there are always new loudspeakers that "fit" your requirements...Me? I'd try to educate my ears and investigate how room placement can affect sound...proper use of tone controls is NOT a sin!

jimHJJ(...but then again, that's just me...)

[kexodusc]

Could very well be the speakers not living up to your hopes...however, if this is the case, you will be very unlikely to find another speaker in that price range that offers much significant improvement. They're all quite similar in performance, except for the really bad ones which are worse.
Perhaps we could help if you posted some measurements about your listening environment, speaker placement (like how far from rear and side walls, distance apart, toe-in, distance from listening position etc). And I hope you aren't using the cables that came with the amplifier. What gauge of speaker wire are you using? All these factors will have a significant impact on the sound of your system, and bit of time and experimentation goes a long way.

In the end, it could very well be you just don't like the Titans. I'm not sure why you purchased them if you had a less than pleasant in-store experience with them. But before you panic, address the above conditions, because no matter what speaker you get, you won't be enjoying them much unless this stuff is taken care of.

[markw]

Could very well be the speakers not living up to your hopes...however, if this is the case, you will be very unlikely to find another speaker in that price range that offers much significant improvement. They're all quite similar in performance, except for the really bad ones which are worse.Huh??? for $400 to $600/pair he's got quite a wide variety of speakers available to him.




Perhaps we could help if you posted some measurements about your listening environment, speaker placement (like how far from rear and side walls, distance apart, toe-in, distance from listening position etc). And I hope you aren't using the cables that came with the amplifier. What gauge of speaker wire are you using? All these factors will have a significant impact on the sound of your system, and bit of time and experimentation goes a long way.Placment may have some impact on his dissatisfaction wit hhis speakers but, having heard them and feeling I know what he's trying to do, I kinda doubt it. And, I certainly hope you're joking about the cables being the culprit here.




In the end, it could very well be you just don't like the Titans. I'm not sure why you purchased them if you had a less than pleasant in-store experience with them.So far, this is the only paragraph I can agree 100% with you.




But before you panic, address the above conditions, because no matter what speaker you get, you won't be enjoying them much unless this stuff is taken care of.I hope he doesn't waste his $$ on cables wheh it would be bettter spent putting it towards speakers.

[N. Abstentia]

[QUOTE=markw]Huh??? for $400 to $600/pair he's got quite a wide variety of speakers available to him.
QUOTE]

That's true, but the Titans fall in the $200 price range. Hard to beat them for the price. But like you say, for triple his money he could get a much better speaker, like the Studio 20.

[kexodusc]

Markw:
LOL...Sorry, somewhere along the line I lost the $600 budget in his post, I stuck with the $200 range the Titans fall in- and, well, for $200ish you won't get much more than what Titans offer from anyone else either. But, why, oh why were Titans purchased if $600 was his budget? That's kind of like shopping for a sports car and buying a Focus or something, isn't it?
No, I'm certainly not an advocat for fancy cables...but generally the crappy cables that are thrown in the box with CD players, amps, etc CAN be a culprit, they usually have aweful connectors and half the time don't work...5 bucks at a radio shack will neutralize that.
I certainly hope you aren't passing off the importance of speaker placement and room variables...next to the speaker itself, the environment will have the largest impact on the sound he's hearing.
Cheers

[markw]

... I would like a speaker (less than 600?) that really fills the (small) room with sound and hits hard when I turn up the volume for some Zeppelin or Damageplan, yet, plays piano (and other classical) music distinctly.

regards
Nadeem

If I knew they were available in his geographic location, I would recommend he check out Athena Audition AS-F2's of F1's. Perfect, no, but pretty durn good and well worth a look. See http://www.audioadvisor.com for more details. ...might even be a sale on the F2's.

[kexodusc]

Yeah the Athena's aren't bad at all. Although I don't find they do the midrange for male vocals enough justice from the instore auditions I've done...still, a very nice speaker. I don't think he could go wrong with Energy's Connoisseur either or maybe even the Paradigm Monitors as someone already suggested.