Wilson WP7, JBL 1400 Array, or ???

[topspeed]

Hello friends,

Well, now that my unexpected amp problem is being fixed by PS Audio for free(!), I'm returning my attention to upgrading my B&W's to a speaker better suited to the 25'x30'x30'h room they reside in and would appreciate some opinions.

Here's what I've heard so far:
1) Sonus Faber Cremona M; nice speaker, sounds too much like my B&W's with the same dynamic limitations for the room

2) Goldenear Triton Two's; I was hoping to hear the Ones, but this is what the dealer had and honestly, I was completely underwhelmed. REALLY warm sound, unfocused, boomy, throws the mids together in a blender. After reading reviews, this was by far the most disappointing speaker I heard.

3) Revel Studio 2's; Lively, fun speaker...and way out of my price range!

Here's what I'm considering:
1) Wilson Watt/Puppy 7's; it's been a awhile since I heard a pair and yet they remain my benchmark to this day. Literally the only speaker I've ever heard that made my jaw drop. I thought perhaps time had romanticized how good they were until we went to my friend's and heard his Wilson Sasha's right after hearing everything else and the magic was readily apparent.

2) JBL 1400 Array; I've not heard these, but those that have swear by them. A dealer friend has them as his own reference, even though he doesn't sell JBL, and swears they run circles around the Wilsons. The downside is the appearance. I don't have a dedicated music room and when I showed the wife a picture and said, "I'm putting these in the living room," she gave me a "are you freakin' kidding?!?" look cold enough to freeze Hell. Zero WAF.

3) B&W 802D's; These seem the logical step up from my CDM7NT's, but I haven't heard them.

What's your opinion on my quandry? I'm hoping someone here has heard the JBL's. Price cap is $5k (used is obviously fine) and they need to be dynamic enough to fill that room. Von Schweikert already eliminated their VR33 saying it would be a poor match.

Thanks for your help!

ts

[Jack in Wilmington]

I'd say if you liked the Revel so much, stay with that company and try something down the line. I saw two pairs of Performa 3 F208's on Audiogon. One was a demo pair and they were being offered at half off the original $5000. The other pair were brand new in the box with free shipping. I recently read a review on these speakers and I liked what the reviewer said about them. If I was in the market, they'd be on my short list.

[topspeed]

I'd say if you liked the Revel so much, stay with that company and try something down the line. I saw two pairs of Performa 3 F208's on Audiogon. One was a demo pair and they were being offered at half off the original $5000. The other pair were brand new in the box with free shipping. I recently read a review on these speakers and I liked what the reviewer said about them. If I was in the market, they'd be on my short list.

I saw those 208's on agon. I'm considering them, but am concerned the bottom doesn't go as low as I'm looking for. The Studio 2's as good as they were, simply weren't as effortless in the bass department as the Wilson's, so I'd imagine the lower 208 would be similar.

Jack, I see you have Ushers. There's also a pair of Be10's available. Have you heard these and if so, what was your impression?

Thanks

[Jack in Wilmington]

I saw those 208's on agon. I'm considering them, but am concerned the bottom doesn't go as low as I'm looking for. The Studio 2's as good as they were, simply weren't as effortless in the bass department as the Wilson's, so I'd imagine the lower 208 would be similar.

Jack, I see you have Ushers. There's also a pair of Be10's available. Have you heard these and if so, what was your impression?

Thanks

I have heard several Usher speakers at my local dealer. I heard the Be10's along with the Mini Dancer and a couple speakers in the CP series that I can't recall the number designation. The Be10's really rocked and the salesguy just showed them to me so I could hear what they sounded like as they were way out of my price range. It's a sin that the one speaker has that cosmetic damage but if it doesn't effect the sound, it's a steal.

[blackraven]

My vote is for the 802's. You already like the sound of B&W's. Give a listen to Dyn Audio
and the new Sonus Faber Venere S, which is supposed to be a huge step up in sound from the Venere 3.0's.

Venere S (http://www.sonusfaber.com/en-us/products/venere-s)

[Jack in Wilmington]

My vote is for the 802's. You already like the sound of B&W's. Give a listen to Dyn Audio
and the new Sonus Faber Venere S, which is supposed to be a huge step up in sound from the Venere 3.0's.

Venere S (http://www.sonusfaber.com/en-us/products/venere-s)

I didn't recommend B&W's because TS talked about their dynamic limitations in his room so I figured he was looking for a different sound. I need to hear the SF Venere S as I liked the sound of the 3.0's. What Dynaudio would you think would perform well in TS's room? Maybe the Contour S3.4?

[blackraven]

I didn't recommend B&W's because TS talked about their dynamic limitations in his room so I figured he was looking for a different sound. I need to hear the SF Venere S as I liked the sound of the 3.0's. What Dynaudio would you think would perform well in TS's room? Maybe the Contour S3.4?

I have heard the 802's and the Venere 3.0's. both very different speakers IMHO. I like both. The 802's sound is very clear and detailed but the Venere's has a warmer, more liquid sound. The new Venere S model is supposed to be stellar and sound different than the 3.0's. I need to stop by the local dealer and give them a listen. Looking at the size of them and the 802's, they both should have no problem filling that room.

As far as Dyn Audio's, it has been a while since I was at the local dealer. About 3 years. I cant remember the specific models that I heard but they were detailed, dynamic with great bass. I was impressed and thought that if I were to tire of my maggies I would consider DA. along with PSB and SF. They used a Rotel amp and pre. Same dealer sells B&W's.

I would recommend a used pair of PSB Synchrony's but they have a warm, liquid presentation, more so than the Venere's. I love the Synchrony's and are my favorite speaker in the $5K-$8K range.

PSB Synchrony One loudspeaker | Stereophile.com (http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/408psb/index.html#kOEvPLibA3s3ruCQ.97)

I am not a fan of the Triton's. A friend and I heard them at Axpona and spent 1 min in the room and walked out. I found them bright and edgy. It was probably the music because they were awful. I read a review stating that you really need to adjust the built in woofer properly otherwise they will sound boomy. Clearly the dealer did not have them set up properly-

GoldenEar Triton Three Floorstanding Loudspeaker Reviewed (http://hometheaterreview.com/goldenear-triton-three-floorstanding-loudspeaker-reviewed/)

[topspeed]

Thanks for the recommendations, guys.

The listened to Dynaudio's Confidence speakers a few years ago in and didn't care for the dry presentation. They were supremely accurate, just not my cup o' tea. If they've changed their house sound, I would certainly give them another go.

Speaking of changing house sounds, the Sonus Faber Cremona M's really surprised me! My previous experiences had always been very warm, full bodied sound that was infinitely listenable, if a bit at the expense of transparency and speed. The M's shattered that and, in fact, I found their sound to be much more lively. Unfortunately, they would have been swallowed by my room just as my B&W's are. The Venere S is intriguing, too bad the nearest dealer is over 3 hours away :(.

I'd really like to hear the 802's before I decide on anything.

[blackraven]

A used pair of Magnepan 3.6's would fill that room nicely. Add 1 or 2 subs crossed over at 40-45hz and you would be set.

[topspeed]

A used pair of Magnepan 3.6's would fill that room nicely. Add 1 or 2 subs crossed over at 40-45hz and you would be set.

The wife will never allow me to put the Maggies far enough out into the room for them to properly breathe. I've travelled down road before and it was a dead end, lol!

As an aside, I'm listening to Brothers in Arms right now and realizing how much I miss my amp. The B&W's are strangled by the Marantz.

[thekid]

Well I'd like to be able to comment on any of your choices but as of yet I have not come across any of them yet in any of the thrifts or Craigslist which as some of you know is where I buy all of my speakers..... :D

Seriously though I did have some budget B&W's that I liked and can only imagine how good their more serious speakers are.

Good luck with your search!

[topspeed]

Well I'd like to be able to comment on any of your choices but as of yet I have not come across any of them yet in any of the thrifts or Craigslist which as some of you know is where I buy all of my speakers..... :D

Seriously though I did have some budget B&W's that I liked and can only imagine how good their more serious speakers are.

Good luck with your search!

Glad to see your return to form, Kid. I'm not on the forums much anymore, but I did catch your thread on your recent health issues and it's good to hear you're on the road to recovery. If I lived in an area where Craigslist was more prevalent, I might be able to score some of the deals you do. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of farm land and there's not a lot of audiophiles in this area.

Take care,

speedy

[frenchmon]

Well..I've heard all the speakers on your list. And I've heard the Golden Ear the most. You really have to dial them in with the powered sub and remember they have a version of the Heil folded ribbon tweeter. But the advice I would give to you...Each speaker will give a different idea of how it will interpret music due to the system it is in. So youd be best served by system matching the speakers to your rig. Example......if you have all silver interconnect and speaker wire and you amp is already tilted up in the higher frequencies....chances are its not neutral. So you'd be better served with a warmer speaker and ditch the silver cable in favor of copper. To may cats fail to understand system synergy and don't know the sound signature of gear.

My two cents.

[thekid]

Glad to see your return to form, Kid. I'm not on the forums much anymore, but I did catch your thread on your recent health issues and it's good to hear you're on the road to recovery. If I lived in an area where Craigslist was more prevalent, I might be able to score some of the deals you do. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of farm land and there's not a lot of audiophiles in this area.

Take care,

speedy

Thanks Top speed!

I'm feeling a bit better everyday and hope to be back to myself soon.

As I have mentioned before I am blessed to live in the area I do in terms of the variety and quality of audio gear available on secondary markets. As a matter of fact I was able to trade some gear yesterday for Technics SL-1700.... :)

[topspeed]

Well..I've heard all the speakers on your list. And I've heard the Golden Ear the most. You really have to dial them in with the powered sub and remember they have a version of the Heil folded ribbon tweeter. Well, I listened at the dealer and he had a two week lead time to dial the system in before I got there, so I would hope that it was optimized as well as it could have been. I went into that audition check-in-hand based on reviews I'd read, but came away supremely disappointed. It wasn't that the bass was overwhelming, it was the veiled presentation, shallow soundstage, and muddled mids. The clarity was so lacking that it completely obscured certain ques that I look for with my reference music. The front end was Anthem, but the dealer had his choice of Levinson, Classe, or Rotel and chose that based on synergy.


But the advice I would give to you...Each speaker will give a different idea of how it will interpret music due to the system it is in. So youd be best served by system matching the speakers to your rig. Example......if you have all silver interconnect and speaker wire and you amp is already tilted up in the higher frequencies....chances are its not neutral. So you'd be better served with a warmer speaker and ditch the silver cable in favor of copper. To may cats fail to understand system synergy and don't know the sound signature of gear.

My two cents.Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't agree more regarding system synergy, which is one of the reasons I'm keen to locate some 802's. I've built the rig over the years to best match the voicing of my current B&W's. This is not to say the I'll buy them just because they are the big brother of what I have now, I've heard enough speakers to recognize both the advantages and limitations of B&W's. However, if the 802's essentially sound like my modest speakers, just more-so, I'd probably be a pretty happy camper without thought of upgrading for another 10-15 years.

Just out of curiosity, does anybody find auditioning equipment to be counterproductive to enjoying music sometimes? I find myself focusing so much on critical listening, marking cues, and microdynamics that sometimes I forget to simply enjoy the music. The 'ol "Can't see the forest through the trees" syndrome.

[Mr Peabody]

I have the Revel F52's, which I recently replaced with JBL 4367's, I personally would not use the F208's. I just didn't care for the sound where I love the F52, which happen to be forsale, just saying :). I could have had a set of 206 or 208's easily. The F52 is very flat in it's response, disciplined bass that plays deeper that most any tower I've heard and does it with nice detail.

I had the Array 1400's in my system back when I had my CJ gear, The 1400's needed some current to get them off the ground, my tube monoblocks just wasn't a good match. I still thought they sounded good but I couldn't get them to image properly in my room, notice the horn is vertical, very narrow horizontal dispersion. There are other good JBL options but it sounds like the WAF factor puts them out of the running.

I would strongly urge you to take a listen to Legacy audio. They sound good and are efficient.

I am not a Sonus Faber fan, they don't sound bad just not a speaker for me. I've only heard them with various Sim Audio which I feel is a bit dry and may not be the best match for SF.

The only Wilson's I heard were at Axpona with D'agostino amp. A mega system but didn't impress me as much as let's say MBL's mega system or just Sadurni horns and Merrill Audio. The latter did have their rooms treated though which should have given them an advantage.

I have come to like Focal a lot but not familiar enough to suggest a certain model.

I had Studio2's hooked to my Pass for a while, if you had a less than outstanding audition there's a problem some place and it wasn't the Studio 2's. Certainly not dry and do play deep. The bottom firing port should give easy placement. Most any Revel speaker I've seen perform their best with high current amps.

Dynaudio has always had a soft spot in my heart but quite different sound from B&W. The newest Focus line is really good.

[topspeed]

I had the Array 1400's in my system back when I had my CJ gear, The 1400's needed some current to get them off the ground, my tube monoblocks just wasn't a good match. I still thought they sounded good but I couldn't get them to image properly in my room, notice the horn is vertical, very narrow horizontal dispersion. There are other good JBL options but it sounds like the WAF factor puts them out of the running. Good to see you, Mr. P!
The dispersion characteristics was one of my main concerns with the design of the 1400's horn. How would you compare your 4367's with the 1400's?


I would strongly urge you to take a listen to Legacy audio. They sound good and are efficient. Already have. I've listened to my friend's Whispers with a multitude of amps and everything from hi-res to reel to reel. Nice speakers, didn't blow me away from a dynamics standpoint, but that what you get from open baffle woofers. Haven't heard the Focus, but I can get them new 30% off, which is still beyond my budget.


I had Studio2's hooked to my Pass for a while, if you had a less than outstanding audition there's a problem some place and it wasn't the Studio 2's. Certainly not dry and do play deep. The bottom firing port should give easy placement. Most any Revel speaker I've seen perform their best with high current amps. I really liked the Studio2's, especially after the disappointing showing from the Tritons. As soon as they started playing, I immediately thought "THAT's the sound I was hoping for!" Really fun and lively speaker with excellent extension on both ends. Great rhythm and grip as well. Too bad they are 2x my budget :(.

[Mr Peabody]

It would be difficult to do a point by point comparison of the 1400's due to the time that has past and the difference in my equipment used at the time. However, I can say confidently the 4367 is superior in imaging, and keeping in mind what I said, I still think the 4367 is much better in detail. The 4367 is outstanding, brass, cymbals and piano sound excellent, vocals are like the person is in the room. All of this in a neutral manner while remaining engaging and no fatigue.

I didn't realize the Whisper was open baffle. I'm not a fan of open baffle, so far. My friend had Focus SE and recently upgraded to the V.

I'm not just saying this because I have a set but I think you'd like the F52. Maybe you can find some of my old posts, I've been consistent on my fondness of the F52. There's also some good pro reviews in TAS, HTR, S&V. I wish I was closer to you. The sound is similar to the Studio 2 having he same designer in Kevin Volks but obviously not as good having different driver material, amongst other advantages of the Studio 2. I have mine listed on USAudiomart on my friend's dealer account.

[blackraven]

Mr P, when did you get the JBL's?

[Feanor]

I've hesitated to weigh in on this discussion because all the speakers discussed are far above my budget. But what the heck, I've always been one to insert my 2 cents worth, welcome or not.

To me it's non-intuitive to compare horn speakers with standard dynamics, thus JBL Array 1400's on the list with B&W802's, Wilson Watt Puppy's and the rest seems strange. Personally I'd be inclined to forget about the horns. OTOH I'd include Magneplanar MG 3.7's and/or 20.7s, though I know Mrs. Topspeed objects.

Yeah, if I had the room and the bucks the MG 20.7's would probably top my list. In a larger room like topspeed's I'd almost think Mrs. Topspeed could be persuaded to allow the 5 feet from the wall behind which is as much as the Magneplanars really need. (My smaller MG 1.6's do fine with only 3 feet.) To put things in perspective, any of the speakers topspeed is considering would ideally get about the same distance from the wall behind.

The Maggies and especially the big 20.7 would require lots of juice, for instance a Pass Labs X350.8. Or likely one could get by very weil with a pair of Merrill Veritas monoblocks (http://www.merrillaudio.net/veritas.html) for a good deal less cash; (On the cheap, biamping with a pair of Merrill Taranis (http://www.merrillaudio.net/taranis.html) would work pretty well.)

http://www.magnepan.com/www/images/speakers/20.7-new.jpg

[frenchmon]

Well, I listened at the dealer and he had a two week lead time to dial the system in before I got there, so I would hope that it was optimized as well as it could have been. I went into that audition check-in-hand based on reviews I'd read, but came away supremely disappointed. It wasn't that the bass was overwhelming, it was the veiled presentation, shallow soundstage, and muddled mids. The clarity was so lacking that it completely obscured certain ques that I look for with my reference music. The front end was Anthem, but the dealer had his choice of Levinson, Classe, or Rotel and chose that based on synergy.
The characteristics of "veiled presentation, shallow soundstage, and muddled mids.clarity was so lacking that it completely obscured certain ques" is not usually associated with Goldenear speakers. IF so, they surly wouldn't get the praise from people I trust. And I've heard them my self with Bel Canto, Vincent and a few other amps along the way. Something was off at the dealers....perhaps the room, mismatch in gear or whatever...but thats not how Goldenear normally sounds....especially with the Folded ribbon tweeter. I have a buddy out in California who has Goldenear, Line Magnetic amp and Lampizator level 4 DAC and just loves the clarity. I'm sorry youe experence with Goldenear didnt go so well. The only thing I can say about them is 1) most of the speakers have a built in sub, which I dont like...and 2) I like wood on my speakers and not a sock.



Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't agree more regarding system synergy, which is one of the reasons I'm keen to locate some 802's. I've built the rig over the years to best match the voicing of my current B&W's. This is not to say the I'll buy them just because they are the big brother of what I have now, I've heard enough speakers to recognize both the advantages and limitations of B&W's. However, if the 802's essentially sound like my modest speakers, just more-so, I'd probably be a pretty happy camper without thought of upgrading for another 10-15 years

Just out of curiosity, does anybody find auditioning equipment to be counterproductive to enjoying music sometimes? I find myself focusing so much on critical listening, marking cues, and microdynamics that sometimes I forget to simply enjoy the music. The 'ol "Can't see the forest through the trees" syndrome.

I like the Diamond series of speakers. I have no issue with them.

And I was just thinking to my self this morning, like always. Lots of guys like to stay on the merry go round of audio gear.....always getting something new to find the clearest and best sound they can find....they seem to chase audio boxes and sound for their entire life. Looking for that best sound which can never be had. There is always something better.

That's ok for whoever wants to do that. Its all part of being in this hobby. I got off that merry go round in the late 1980's. To me its a waste of money and time worrying about whats the next big thing. I'm of the mind that I should get the gear thats voiced to my liking....get the best cable and interconnects and speaker wire that enhances the sound I like and leave it alone...if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it. Thats just me.....I wont change until I feel theres something missing. I buy music and enjoy the music. To me it's all about the music and its enjoyment. To me certain music should be very personable. It helps me when i'm down, and can lift me when need be, and can put me in a certain mood.

Music to me becomes life. As "THE" good book can minister to the soul, well...so can music. As your wife can be a soul mate....so can good romantic and passionate music...as your kids can bring you happiness and joy....so can your music. God made us to enjoy music...so if its gospel.....christian music....Jazz, Blues....Contemporary pop, whatever music floats ones boat, let him enjoy it forever.

[frenchmon]

It would be difficult to do a point by point comparison of the 1400's due to the time that has past and the difference in my equipment used at the time. However, I can say confidently the 4367 is superior in imaging, and keeping in mind what I said, I still think the 4367 is much better in detail. The 4367 is outstanding, brass, cymbals and piano sound excellent, vocals are like the person is in the room. All of this in a neutral manner while remaining engaging and no fatigue.

Peabody...I remember listening to the 1400's at Daves house and then your house. I do remember the difference in presentations. At your house it seemed there was a more closed in presentation....could be due to the fact Dave's room was more open?


I didn't realize the Whisper was open baffle. I'm not a fan of open baffle, so far. My friend had Focus SE and recently upgraded to the V.

I thought the Focus SE and the "V" had a similar sound with the "V" putting you at the concert! Oh...and yeah Peabody.....his "V" speakers are open baffle....so I think you are a fan. At least you where the night we where all there listening.


I'm not just saying this because I have a set but I think you'd like the F52. Maybe you can find some of my old posts, I've been consistent on my fondness of the F52. There's also some good pro reviews in TAS, HTR, S&V. I wish I was closer to you. The sound is similar to the Studio 2 having he same designer in Kevin Volks but obviously not as good having different driver material, amongst other advantages of the Studio 2. I have mine listed on USAudiomart on my friend's dealer account.

I can say for sure...the F52's are great speakers,,,and yes, they are very neutral. I think the B&W are more airy, but the F52's are very accurate to the music. Also....I think the F52's are easy in 3D.

[blackraven]

The wife will never allow me to put the Maggies far enough out into the room for them to properly breathe. I've travelled down road before and it was a dead end, lol!

As an aside, I'm listening to Brothers in Arms right now and realizing how much I miss my amp. The B&W's are strangled by the Marantz.

Yes, you need an understanding wife to have doors as speakers. I keep my 1.6's 3 feet from the back wall and they sound great. Really no different than pulling them out further in my room.

I think that if you can find a good used pair of 802D's go for it.

Too bad about the Marantz. I wish that Marantz would make a nice high powered, high current power amp, something in the 250wpc 8 ohms and 500wpc at 4 ohms. They really see to have giving up on that market. I like the Marantz house sound in their integrated amps and high end DAC's.

[topspeed]

And I was just thinking to my self this morning, like always. Lots of guys like to stay on the merry go round of audio gear.....always getting something new to find the clearest and best sound they can find....they seem to chase audio boxes and sound for their entire life. Looking for that best sound which can never be had. There is always something better.

That's ok for whoever wants to do that. Its all part of being in this hobby. I got off that merry go round in the late 1980's. To me its a waste of money and time worrying about whats the next big thing. I'm of the mind that I should get the gear thats voiced to my liking....get the best cable and interconnects and speaker wire that enhances the sound I like and leave it alone...if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it. Thats just me.....I wont change until I feel theres something missing. I buy music and enjoy the music. To me it's all about the music and its enjoyment. To me certain music should be very personable. It helps me when i'm down, and can lift me when need be, and can put me in a certain mood. Couldn't agree more. I'm definitely not a "gear geek," as I like to term some of my audio friends, nor am I chasing the 'absolute sound.' I simply look for something that brings me closer to the music. My last upgrade was 13 years ago and the only reason I'm chasing speakers now is thanks to the size of the living room in the house we bought a few years back.

[topspeed]

Yes, you need an understanding wife to have doors as speakers.That just made me LOL! :)

[Mr Peabody]

I got the 4367's to listen to during Xmas vacation but didn't officially purchase them until last month. I thought I was off the merry-go-round for a while but the opportunity to get the JBL at a good deal was too much for me to resist.

Feanor, the JBL horns would blow away any negative opinions you may have of horns. If they were behind a curtain I doubt you'd tell. Vocals are very natural as well as instruments, I think I stated earlier brass, cymbals and piano are outstanding. I will say due to vertical dispersion, orchestral pieces aren't as tall in the sound stage. The 4367 have a really wide sound stage though and reveal layering in the music well. Not to mention they will play as loud as you can stand while remaining crystal clear. I should add a disclaimer, as long as the upstream electronics are up to it.

The 4367's have a front port and actually seem to do better not so far into the room.

[topspeed]

I have to agree with Mr. P on the horns. Like you, Feanor, I had aversion to horn thanks to far too much exposure to Klipshorns and the like. A friend has a custom made JBL speaker featuring a 15" reflex loaded woofer, horn loaded mid, and a vertical horn loaded plasma tweeter that would give just about any speaker you care to mention a run for it's money. It is never harsh, completely neutral, and simply has air and extension for days. They've come a long way from the shouty, hard horns of yore. You should check them out, you'll be as surprised as I was.

On an aside, has anyone heard the Aerial Acoustics 7T? There's a pair for sale and I know the 20T gets rave reviews, but I've never heard the brand.

[Jack in Wilmington]

I find myself wondering, if the JBL 4367 is so good, why haven't any of the major audio magazines done a review on them. Why aren't they listed in their "Recommended Components" articles in the best speakers under $15,000? I never hear any of the reviewers mention them when they're at the audio shows. Most of us don't get to hear 1/2 of the gear that these guys hear, so it just makes me wonder.

Topspeed I've read several great reviews on the 7T. My dealer carries them, but I've never been lucky enough to give them a listen.

[harley .guy07]

Personally I don't take my audio purchases directly from the recommended components from the magazines all the time. It seems the brands that get the most play are the ones that advertise the most in my opinion and the ones that don't advertise are picked because the reviewers themselves pick the brands they review a lot of times.

I have for years as well thought of horns as a bad idea because of the likes of some Klipsch speakes that did not sound good to my ears but they are not the same as compression drivers. from my time in pro sound compression drivers are in a different league than just horn loaded tweeters. I have always had a soft spot for JBL speakers they just have never made a tower speaker that that I could afford that was anything like their over 10k stuff, its like they are two different companies.

[Mr Peabody]

What are you trying to say Jack? You trying to start sumpin? Just messing.

FYI - the 4367 was just introduced at the most recent CEDIA show in Dallas. It is a speaker designed for home use based on the M2 master reference, google that. Or, the K2 Everest.

I also doubt if JBL really cares what an audiophile magazine thinks of it's Synthesis gear, it's mostly in the hands of custom installers opposed to boutique type stores. JBL is very popular in Asia, especially in Japan. I've been told the Array 1400 with it's vertical horn was specifically designed for that market.

[Jack in Wilmington]

What are you trying to say Jack? You trying to start sumpin? Just messing.

FYI - the 4367 was just introduced at the most recent CEDIA show in Dallas. It is a speaker designed for home use based on the M2 master reference, google that. Or, the K2 Everest.

I also doubt if JBL really cares what an audiophile magazine thinks of it's Synthesis gear, it's mostly in the hands of custom installers opposed to boutique type stores. JBL is very popular in Asia, especially in Japan. I've been told the Array 1400 with it's vertical horn was specifically designed for that market.

I've read about it on the JBL website and just find it odd that the major publications haven't reviewed them. You say that JBL probably doesn't care what the magazines thinks about its Synthesis gear and maybe they don't, but I just watched companies shell out $5,000,000 for a 30 second ad during the Superbowl and you would think most companies would like basically free advertisement.

[Feanor]

Personally I don't take my audio purchases directly from the recommended components from the magazines all the time. It seems the brands that get the most play are the ones that advertise the most in my opinion and the ones that don't advertise are picked because the reviewers themselves pick the brands they review a lot of times.

I have for years as well thought of horns as a bad idea because of the likes of some Klipsch speakes that did not sound good to my ears but they are not the same as compression drivers. from my time in pro sound compression drivers are in a different league than just horn loaded tweeters. I have always had a soft spot for JBL speakers they just have never made a tower speaker that that I could afford that was anything like their over 10k stuff, its like they are two different companies.

Though arguments here are changing my mind, I guess 'till recently I had a prejudice against horn speakers. In any case speakers much over $2k are out of the question for me.

JohnMichael has a pair of JBL Studio 530 and is quite fond of them as of last report. They have compression driver tweeters crossed over at 1.5kH. They are pretty affordable.

The other bias I have is for planars and specifically Magneplanars. In my ~$2k range I suspect the MG 1.7's are unbeatable. And I suspect at $6k the MG 3.7i's are unbeatable too.

[Mr Peabody]

I wish Filecat13 would drop in, he was the resident JBL gooru.

[JohnMichael]

Though arguments here are changing my mind, I guess 'till recently I had a prejudice against horn speakers. In any case speakers much over $2k are out of the question for me.

JohnMichael has a pair of JBL Studio 530 and is quite fond of them as of last report. They have compression driver tweeters crossed over at 1.5kH. They are pretty affordable.

The other bias I have is for planars and specifically Magneplanars. In my ~$2k range I suspect the MG 1.7's are unbeatable. And I suspect at $6k the MG 3.7i's are unbeatable too.


They are currently playing Beethoven's "Symphony No 9 'Choral'". A nice SACD of the London Symphony Orchestra Live. Still very impressed and the first speaker with a horn that I enjoy.

[harley .guy07]

Will I will say that I have looked at the Studio 590 several times in the resent past as they have moved their page for the 590 to their Synthesis website(I guess they are calling it part of the Synthesis line now) and think they look really cool and are sure they would be dynamic which I am after I just have heard mixed reviews of how transparent and detailed they are. I am all about being musical and true to live performance sound in my house which is what I am after over all else. I would love to here the Studio 590 just to see if they would work for me since they are actually under what I have so far allowed myself to spend for speakers.

Floorstanding Loudspeakers - JBL Synthesis (http://www.jblsynthesis.com/productlist-syn/jbl-synthesis/syn-products/type/floorstanding-loudspeakers.html)

above is the Synthesis page with the 590's on it. There are other models in the under 10,000 dollar class but if I have heard right they are being phased out and not sure what is going to replace them.

SoundStage! Access | SoundStageAccess.com (GoodSound.com) | SoundStage! Access | SoundStageAccess.com (GoodSound.com) (http://www.goodsound.com/index.php/component/content/article?id=120:jbl)

Above is the LS series that they are phasing out and I am not sure what they are going to replace these with or at all.

[Mr Peabody]

I didn't have a lot of respect for JBL only knowing what was in Best Buy and some vintage models I wasn't so impressed with, it was hearing the LS60 that had me do an about face. Then I knew JBL was capable of producing some excellent speakers.

[topspeed]

I have for years as well thought of horns as a bad idea because of the likes of some Klipsch speakes that did not sound good to my ears but they are not the same as compression drivers. from my time in pro sound compression drivers are in a different league than just horn loaded tweeters. I have always had a soft spot for JBL speakers they just have never made a tower speaker that that I could afford that was anything like their over 10k stuff, its like they are two different companies.

There is so much truth in this paragraph. Like Feanor, I didn't realize the difference between a horn loaded tweeter and a compression driver. Huge difference. Also, like many here, I always regarded JBL very lightly thanks to their horrible boxes they sell in BB. I was just never impressed. My friend that has the custom JBL speakers is an audiophile and electrical engineer that made his own custom amplifiers, (Sheffield Labs use his amps, btw). He has forgotten more about sound reproduction than I will ever know. There is a fundamental reason he and his brother (also an audiophile and ee) use JBL speakers even though their stereo store gave them access to IRS V's if they wanted. Both are typically German in their unwavering conviction to JBL drivers, so I'm not surprised that Mr. P's speakers sound as good as he says.

I've been leaning towards the WP7's, but this thread is really making me rethink that and lean back towards the Array's. Still gotta find those 802D's to audition, tho...

[JohnMichael]

Yes the compression driver and horn combination has been a real ear opener for me. I have been so impressed by the Studio 530's but others have dismissed them due to price. They have made me question if the dome tweeter is the best way to go.

As far as transparency is concerned the speakers sound better with the grills removed. Even though they only cover the lower frequency drivers they still interfere with the sound. Once the grills are removed use the supplied panels to complete the geometry of the horn. My mid/woofer driver is always naked.

I had read where the 590's are a little bass heavy. You might want to check out the 580's. I would like to hear the 570's since they have two of those small but incredible woofers.

[harley .guy07]

I have lately been wondering with my work in carpentry and my ability to get a lot of JBL pro sound drivers like the 2226H if I shouldn't just build and design my own. I have knowledge in circuit design and building crossovers and cabinets as well. It would make a speaker that I would normally never be able to afford and put it into my price range. I would use a JBL 2226H 15" driver and a compression driver and horn for the highs. If this is the way I am going to go I might start them within the next few months depending on my job placement. I have a friend that owns a body and paint shop that has told me in the past that as long as I did the sanding that he would do the finishing fiberglass and paint work.

[Mr Peabody]

Harley, can you get cabinet blueprints/designs from JBL? I did have a bunch of EV cabinet plans I had for years but last time my basement got wet I threw them out with a box of various product info books. If you can get a plan from JBL they are really nice giving exact dimensions, port size etc.

I even had one for a folded horn, the finished product would have been about the size of a refrigerator :)

[harley .guy07]

I haven't tried JBL directly. I have been seeing prints online for different designs using JBL woofers (2226H) and compression drivers from JBL and different manufacturers. I would not have thought JBL would help with these matters but they might. I have seen many options online for designs. I am going to take my time and look at different designs to see what will work the best in my room and with my system and personal preferences. I am not sure if one woofer per speaker or 2 in a D Appolito orangement will work best.

[Mr Peabody]

You'd have to deal with the Pro side where you buy the raw drivers. They should have some cabinet plans. Unless you have a really big room I'd suspect a single woofer would be fine.

My wife sure didn't like the 4367 looks as well as the more slim F52. I about fainted when she voluntarily gave the Studio 2 a compliment on looks. I should have jumped on that opportunity, LOL. I just couldn't afford them. I got a better deal with the 4367. I've got no regrets sound wise.

[harley .guy07]

I have tried to find the plans you have talked about Mr. p but to no luck. I have been on JBLs pro website and haven't found anything yet. Let me know if you know where they exist. thanks

[harley .guy07]

Actually I found the file at JBL. Thanks Mr P. It will be a bit before I get started but when I do I will keep the site posted.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm glad you found it. I haven't had a chance to look. It's been a tough year so far for me. I was in the hospital for 3 nights getting IV antibiotics for some infection in the side of my face, earlier this month. Then my younger brother died on 2/14 of a heart attack. He was 46. He was a big guy and had some not so good habits but it caught me by surprise and seems so unreal.

[Feanor]

I'm glad you found it. I haven't had a chance to look. It's been a tough year so far for me. I was in the hospital for 3 nights getting IV antibiotics for some infection in the side of my face, earlier this month. Then my younger brother died on 2/14 of a heart attack. He was 46. He was a big guy and had some not so good habits but it caught me by surprise and seems so unreal.

Sorry to hear about your brother, Mr P. It must a have been a shock for everyone. My condolences to the family.

[thekid]

I'm glad you found it. I haven't had a chance to look. It's been a tough year so far for me. I was in the hospital for 3 nights getting IV antibiotics for some infection in the side of my face, earlier this month. Then my younger brother died on 2/14 of a heart attack. He was 46. He was a big guy and had some not so good habits but it caught me by surprise and seems so unreal.

My condolences to you and your family on the death of your brother. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

[blackraven]

Bryan, sorry to hear about your brother. I lost my brother unexpectedly 2 years ago. My thoughts are with you.

Larry

[Jack in Wilmington]

I'm glad you found it. I haven't had a chance to look. It's been a tough year so far for me. I was in the hospital for 3 nights getting IV antibiotics for some infection in the side of my face, earlier this month. Then my younger brother died on 2/14 of a heart attack. He was 46. He was a big guy and had some not so good habits but it caught me by surprise and seems so unreal.

So sorry about the loss of your brother. I only have my brother left and we've never been closer and that may be because we don't have anybody else. Take care of yourself because we would miss you like a brother.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

[topspeed]

My sincere condolences on your loss, Mr. P. While we all appreciate the pleasure our little hobby brings, that enjoyment stands in stark relief to the blessings of family. I hope that as 2016 was front loaded with challenges, the rest of your year can only bring joy and success.

On another note, I just purchased the JBL's from an agon seller in Idaho. Should be here in a week or so. Hopefully, my amp will be back from PSA and we'll throw on some Steely Dan and see what they can do. I've never purchased a piece of gear without hearing it directly, so this is a pretty big leap of faith (*knocking on wood*). I simply threw out a number I never thought he'd accept and and I guess it was meant to be.

*update*
Just found out my amp is repaired and on its way back from PS Audio! They even waved the shipping, how great is this company? Pretty good day!

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks Topper, I still haven't forgotten you're the reason I'm still here. If you don't remember you encouraged me to try the new format way back when AR switched.

I'm assuming by JBL you mean the 1400? Nice, I'm anxious to see what you think.

[topspeed]

Thanks Topper, I still haven't forgotten you're the reason I'm still here. If you don't remember you encouraged me to try the new format way back when AR switched.

I'm assuming by JBL you mean the 1400? Nice, I'm anxious to see what you think.

1400 Array's. The seller retired from his AV store and had these in his personal stock, so I got a bill of sale from his company and the warranty as well, which I doubt I'll need considering JBL's reputation, but it's nice to have anyway.

[harley .guy07]

Woo good find. I have eyed the 1400 array's for years but just never had the money in my budget to splurge on a pair. I have always liked the more dynamic live sounding stuff but until I moved into my new house just a couple of years ago my listening room never afforded the room to give the big guys the room to live. Now that I have the room I am waiting to line up my career after finishing with my marketing degree so that I can make some system changes.