JBL 4367's in my listening room

[Mr Peabody]

My friend, the audio dealer, brought in a set of JBL 4367's, the new model based on the M2 Master Reference Studio Monitor. The 4367 is passive though and marketed for home use. I've had a passion for true horn type speakers, or pro speakers, since back in the day when I sold Electro-Voice, so I wanted to give the 4367 a listen.

The 4367 is like having the performance in your room. This is the type of speaker you want if you really want to hear and feel a drum kit in the room. The horn drivers are not fatiguing and provide great detail. The bass is big and powerful while being quick and detailed. I had to do some breaking in when I got them so they could still have even more improvement in store. The bass isn't quite as fast as the 6" drivers in my F52's at this point, nor do they play as low. However, the two sounds are quite different. I read one analogy I thought fit well, the 4367 is like a sports car where speakers you read about in TAS or Stereophile are typically luxury cars. Meaning the luxury is designed for "audiophile" type sound and speakers like the 4367 is like, well, as I mentioned prior, when you want to hear and feel the drums in your room. You can give the 4367 as much clean power as you can stand and it will be distortion free presenting the same frequency response as it will at a lower level. And, you know how sometimes you'll get a recording and you can tell there's horns in the background but it's a bit undefined or lacking clarity, the 4367 is able to present the horns to where you can hear a defined horn and someone is back there playing it. Things like piano, cymbals and brass sound great. Vocals come through like the person is there, you get good detail and inflection. But as with a sports car none of the bumps get smoothed out on the road and it's always raring to go.

The sound stage is wide but it doesn't arc up like most dome tweeter speakers, just a limit of a horizontal horn. Plus, I don't have the spikes or platforms. The horns should be a bit closer to my ear level. The 4367 has two sets of binding posts, rated at 94dB & 6 ohms. 94dB would lead you to believe these could be easily driven, and maybe so, but if they are like the Array 1400's you'll still need some sturdy solid state or powerful tubes. My CJ 100 watt monoblocks didn't get the 1400's off the ground.

[Hyfi]

Sounds like a fun time. at $15K a pair, they better sound as good as you thought. Since they are originally a Studio Monitor, would you say they have a similar sound to Harbeth? (obviously no similarity in design)

Why are these and the M2s not even mentioned on the JBL site?

[Feanor]

Very interesting. The 4367's are in the "high-end" category. I think you comparision to the Revel Performas, a classic Floyd Toole-type design, is apt.

No 4367's on my horizon on account of price, but also because "kick" isn't what's important to the type of music I listen to.

I note the JohnMichael still likes his more realistically priced JBL's with the a horn mid-tweeter.

[Mr Peabody]

I thought on the JBL Synthesis site I saw a link to the M2. I'm not sure why the 4367 isn't there yet, I wanted to look at the manual. Maybe they are just slow in updating the site. The 4367, and all the Synthesis, sound different than Harbeth. I think one reason is nothing sounds like a compression driver and horn like a compression driver and horn. JBL's sound exceptionally good. I always said if they got the marketing straight companies like Klipsch would have a hard time staying in business. I shouldn't have mentioned Klipsch because again they sound nothing like the JBL though they made the company off using horn type sound for home. JBL seems content selling the horn speakers to pro and custom installers. I do think there are a few Synthesis dealers in audio but not many. I think also the British idea of studio monitor and U.S. may be two different things. Just my opinion but I didn't find Harbeth to be a particularly flat response or studio monitor like.


Sounds like a fun time. at $15K a pair, they better sound as good as you thought. Since they are originally a Studio Monitor, would you say they have a similar sound to Harbeth? (obviously no similarity in design)

Why are these and the M2s not even mentioned on the JBL site?

[Mr Peabody]

You know for Classical the 4367 is pretty good, you get that live feel like being in venue with the orchestra, the instruments have a great realism but at least in my room, and, for now, I'm not getting a sense of depth I had from my F52, and as I mentioned the soundstage is some flat, though wide, but a different feel to what I'm used to for Classical. Then again, when I go to the Synphony we are usually up from the orchestra so maybe the JBL is more accurate, LOL. When listening to Reference label recordings or others with low program I can tell that bottom octave is not coming through. The 4367 is rated at 30Hz so I'm not sure why. The 4367 is very neutral so there isn't any artificial warmth to strings or violin etc. The price, well..... I don't think you will see them in everyone's listening room to be sure.


Very interesting. The 4367's are in the "high-end" category. I think you comparision to the Revel Performas, a classic Floyd Toole-type design, is apt.

No 4367's on my horizon on account of price, but also because "kick" isn't what's important to the type of music I listen to.

I note the JohnMichael still likes his more realistically priced JBL's with the a horn mid-tweeter.

[harley .guy07]

Well I am still interested in hearing them because for most of the music I am in to these sound like the ticket. The price on entry is quite high though and there are plenty of options out there for 15k and under so it would be a very long process if I went to that price point before settling on a pair. But I will say that JBL Synthesis has always stuck to their guns in building home audio speakers that are very much like their pro audio products.

[JohnMichael]

Anyone interested can see the speaker on JBL's Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/JBLsynthesis

Looks pretty impressive Mr. P. I know how good my little Synthesis Studio 530's sound so those must be awesome.

[Mr Peabody]

The 4367's are sounding really good. I'd say the break in time is pretty long, now the horns are so good, highs are pristine and a delight to listen to, vocals are excellent, especially on good recordings, the bass is nicely flat and detailed, still not extended like the 52 was. When I say flat regarding bass, it still sounds like more of a live bass but it's accurate to the recording.

The sound is tough to describe with a string of adjectives, I don't know how reviewers don't keep from sounding like they are writing the same thing all the time. The 4367's just sound right, I find myself gravitating to acoustic Jazz a lot now because I get such a kick out of the liveliness, the cymbals, realism of the snare, tonally the brass sounds really good. Like a good speaker they sound good on most genres.

I'm thinking of trying these iso stands that will get them up from the floor about 5 more inches. They're supposed to improve sound as well but I'll have to see how much they cost and it's difficult to imagine the 4367 sounding better.

I feel like I've rambled and somehow missed my point, the 4367 I liked when I first got them but the sound has really improved upon break in. I used to wonder if I'd like Revel's Studio's better but now I don't think I could live without what the 4367 does. If you've never had the chance to hear a real pro horn with high quality compression driver you don't know what you're missing. Typically, JBL is shown with Levinson at Axpona, so many get a taste but I've noticed they tend to bring a model that's really too much for the room and I wonder if the heavy bass is what draws the attention. OK, enough, :)

[JohnMichael]

Much of what you report about your JBL's I hear in mine but at a smaller scale. I am as impressed with compression drivers as you seem to be. They give a wide, defined and deep soundstage in my room. I used to think of them as dry but after all this time listening I realize they have less distortion.

[Feanor]

Of course it's great that you are enjoying your JBL 4367's (and that JohnMichael is enjoying Studio 530's). But I'm still inclined to wonder how different their character is from the planars that I and Blackraven, or missing member, E-Stat, are using. I'm not aware that Mr P or JohnMichael have used planars, nor that Blackraven or E-Stat have use horns.

I love to hear from anyone who has been able to directly compare horns with planars.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Of course it's great that you are enjoying your JBL 4367's (and that JohnMichael is enjoying Studio 530's). But I'm still inclined to wonder how different their character is from the planars that I and Blackraven, or missing member, E-Stat, are using. I'm not aware that Mr P or JohnMichael have used planars, nor that Blackraven or E-Stat have use horns.

I love to hear from anyone who has been able to directly compare horns with planars.

My friend over on Audio Aficionado had a pair of Martin Logan Spires and got the itch for something new. He did listen to the Array 1400's and then the 4367's but he ultimately went for the Revel Studio 2's. He didn't say what the differences were between the ML's and the Revels and why he chose them in the end, other than he preferred them over the JBL's.

[blackraven]

I had a pair of Cannon TLS speakers back in the 80's that used horns. They were just ok. But I am sure that those JBL's sound great. My next pair of speakers may be the top of the like PSB's as I really like their sonic character. I loved the sound of the phased out Synchony's. Still love my panels though now that I have the proper electronics and digital player.

[Mr Peabody]

JM, you may want to check on Iso Acoustics speaker stands. Theyre supposed to do wonders for box speakers.

Feanor, I've auditioned Martin Logan, had a pair in my room years ago with a Krell integrated. I feel electrostats even have a different sound than Maggies. I couldn't get over the lack of a physical feel to the music with the electrostats but the presence was astounding. I've not been a big fan of Maggies in the past. Seems to get them to sound "right" takes the right set up, room, amp etc. I heard a set of 3.7's driven by Pass that was quite good. In lack of a better way to put it, Maggies to me sound like the sonic character of headphones, there can be good detail and frequency but there's a lacck of leading edges or something. In both ES or panels, it's difficult to fool my brain I'm at the performance when I hear a 7 foot tall sax or 12 foot wide piano. I may be exaggerating some but hopefully you get my point. The large sound stage may be great for Classical though. If I had space and funds my 2nd system could very well be electrostats driven by good tubes. I'd love to hear Sanders in a good room and equipment, they were really good at the show, I can only imagine how good they'd be in a better venue.

Horns have their own particular presence, just a live energetic type. I suspect the gent who preferred the Studios liked the more refined, "audiophile" type sound of the Studios. Some one gave a great analogy on Hoffman's forums comparing the 4367 to a sports car and the Salons, the Studios in same light, to a luxury car. The luxury car smooth s out some of the "bumps" etc. but you don't get the responsiveness and thrill of the sports car. It's just preference. With that being said the 4367, and I suspect some other models of JBL, tend to blurr the lines with the smoothness of the treble and incredible vocals. I will say both the Studio or Salon would play lower.

[blackraven]

Mr. P, I hear what you say about Maggies. They have their draw backs but at their price point, their performance is hard to beat. You certainly have to get use to a 10 foot guitar sound. You either like it or you don't. As far a lack of a leading edge or attack, it all depends upon the amp and preamp pairing. My Parasound has great leading edge detail that my Pass amp can't even attempt to match. Makes me wonder how a pair of JC-1 monoblocks would sound with them.

I have to agree with you concerning Martin Logans. The music it too airy and thin and not palpable. I do like their 3-D floating in air sound though. I heard ML surround sound with a movie and it was awesome.

[Feanor]

...
Feanor, I've auditioned Martin Logan, had a pair in my room years ago with a Krell integrated. I feel electrostats even have a different sound than Maggies. I couldn't get over the lack of a physical feel to the music with the electrostats but the presence was astounding. I've not been a big fan of Maggies in the past. Seems to get them to sound "right" takes the right set up, room, amp etc. I heard a set of 3.7's driven by Pass that was quite good. In lack of a better way to put it, Maggies to me sound like the sonic character of headphones, there can be good detail and frequency but there's a lacck of leading edges or something. In both ES or panels, it's difficult to fool my brain I'm at the performance when I hear a 7 foot tall sax or 12 foot wide piano. I may be exaggerating some but hopefully you get my point. The large sound stage may be great for Classical though. If I had space and funds my 2nd system could very well be electrostats driven by good tubes. I'd love to hear Sanders in a good room and equipment, they were really good at the show, I can only imagine how good they'd be in a better venue.
...

To be sure, a lot of people have commented on the over-sided soundstage of planars, (and Maggies in particular). But I can honestly say I've never had the impression of 12 foot wide piano; imaging has always sounded quite precise depending on the recording.

And this is not for lack of hearing "box" speakers in my system, most recently my DIY Daytons.

Horns, OTOH, I haven't heard. I would be curious, of course, but I'm disposed to make any sort of financial commitment to find out.

[Mr Peabody]

I went to friends house yesterday, listened to his Legacy V, the to another friend who has Salons.

When I came back from Axpona where I heard a lot of good gear then listened to my system again at home, I remember I wasn't coveting after anything I heard, my JBL's sounded pretty good. Then after hearing the above I think the 4367's are spoiling my ears to the absolute clarity and correctness of timbre. I mean the V has a much larger sound stage and a great presence, both them and the Salons play lower, not sure deeper though, but to my ears the 4367 was more convincing I am listening to a real instrument being played. Those guys who own the other speakers may disagree but at least it shows I have the right speaker, for me.

This is the first time I heard those Salons in that room. Another friend used to own Salons so I'm familiar with them. It was a real ear opener as to how important a room can be to a speaker's sound. The set up last night was in a fairly live room with a sub floor so you can imagine the room was less than perfect.

[topspeed]

Proof positive that there is no such thing as an "Absolute Sound." We all hear differently and, perhaps more importantly, we are all looking for different things. The magic happens when you're able to find that special combination that creates truly engaging music. Congratulations, it sounds like you've found it!

[harley .guy07]

Well I start my new job Monday and also have another interview going on at a company that I would rather work for so either way my career path is starting again since graduating. The good news is that I will quickly be on the prowl for system upgrades starting with new speakers. Mr. P has turned me on to a speaker that I have researched before and kind of sounds like something that would fit the bill for me perfectly seeing that these combat the very things that I don't like about my current speakers. Spatial Audio Hologram M3 Turbo S are the ones I am talking about. they are the talk of the town at the audio shows in the last year or so and most people that hear them really love them. they are open baffle but have 2 15" woofers per side to make up the bass response. They use a very nice compression driver which I like and look good to me to boot. I was going to build some DIY speakers using JBL and other components but seeing these has me thinking. Let me know your thoughts

[Mr Peabody]

I don't remember if I made this note in my show report, I noticed vocals on the Spacial sounded off to me, not quite as I remember them on familiar songs. At shows though it could be the source or the crossovers needing a tweak. I'd say just try to get a good audition or return window.

It's cool how they use the slots in the baffle as a natural crossover for the woofer.

[harley .guy07]

That is weird that the vocals sounded off since they are such a simple design with non exotic components for the most part, but you are right it really could have been the source, room, or something else since I have heard many others online say that they love the presentation heard from them. I know that they have a 60 day in home trial period so that you have time to break them in and really give them a try. I am glad that they offer it since they are a design that is a complete departure from any other that I have tried or worked with in the past. I'm surprised that with all of you guys going to shows at times that more of you have not head them or have an opinion. Its not a done deal yet and there will be time to look at other options or change my mind but I do love the fact that there is no enclosure to add bad resonance sounds to the room and the fact that the design allows for a more spacious sound stage and most of the people online that have spoke about the Spatials have said that their since of reality is real good which is what I am in to

[topspeed]

M3 Turbo S, huh? I wonder if BMW or Porsche's trademark attorney's have had a gander at this company? LOL!

Interesting concept, the "specially treated titanium compression drivers" sound a lot like the Aquaplas treated JBL drivers. I wonder what manufacturer they use? I have never heard these, but can say I have yet to meet an open baffle speaker that would find a place in my house, especially in the ginormous room they would have to go in. Just not my cup o' tea. With a 60 day trial period, why not give 'em a whirl?

[harley .guy07]

9967Yeah the name is kind of weird with the car name drops and such! I know that the woofers are made for them by Eminence to Spatials specs but not sure about the Compression drivers, I heard that B & C speakers out of Italy are who makes them again to Spatials specs but not sure about that. In regards to the big room they would need I guess the designer Clayton Shaw has been working with open baffle designs for ever and have perfected them to work in almost any size of room and with no eq,DSP, of add ons needed. I think I am going to start my new job and get that going and then start looking seriously at which speakers I will go with then. Like I said it might be those or I might see something else in the mean time or continue to look at building my own but the longer I search the lazier I get in regards to building a pair.

[Mr Peabody]

It's an eminence front............

[Mr Peabody]

Harley, a correction, it was Emerald Physics I heard at the show. To my knowledge I've not heard Spacial Audio.

TS, I used to not be that crazy about open baffle but Legacy changed my mind on that, and the Emeral Physics as well.

[harley .guy07]

Yeah I am really thinking about it. Clayton Shaw is a guy from Emerald Physics that chose to go off and do his own thing. I am real interested in the fact that the design is rather simple but people seem to like it. I am really interested in the simplicity of the design but like I said there are a lot of options and I am not sure what I will do at this point. The Dynaudios are great but I can hear their weaknesses every time I hear them and it is getting to me

[Mr Peabody]

You may need a larger speaker, but weakness? In Dyn's?

You should be in the listening phase now. Then you'd have a bit more idea of a direction to go.

[harley .guy07]

I really think what I perceive as weakness in the Dyns are in fact my room. The models I have are designed for small to mid sized rooms and my room is on the large sized so most likely what I am perceiving and weakness is in fact a mismatch between speaker and room.

[topspeed]

I really think what I perceive as weakness in the Dyns are in fact my room. The models I have are designed for small to mid sized rooms and my room is on the large sized so most likely what I am perceiving and weakness is in fact a mismatch between speaker and room.

Been there :rolleyes5:

[harley .guy07]

Sorry I've been busy. I have bult weighted bases for the Dyns which have lifted them for the room and also the bases are filled with sand in order to separate the vibrations from the floor much better than just spikes so they have improved since doing that. And as you all know I built a custom sub for the bottom end which matches perfectly as I have had many friends and people I know in music hear my system that say ask me all the time what more do you want? I guess I am looking for more realism and more of a real live scale to the sound that I can turn the lights off and listen without a hint that it is a system and not performers in the room no matter if I feel like Mastadon or Miles davis or Duke Elington.