Upgrade addiction - need advice

[sjtm]

I began to outline my quest to put together an affordable 2.1 channel system and have eventually landed on the following setup (all gently used equipment):

Marantz PM8005 integrated amp (70 WPC) - only MM phono input
Marantz SA8004 SACD player - has usb input with built in DAC
Focal 816V speakers
Music Hall MMF 9.1 turntable
Acoustec Zen cables

I have decided to upgrade again and admit I am fixated on the brands above, as I spent a lot of time researching and auditioning them. I now have been presented with the following options - all used but like new condition - and want some feedback:

Focal 836V speakers - I can have these for $1,000 - pretty sure these are a no brainer at this price vs my 816V, but please chime in.

Marantz PM-KI Pearl integrated amp and SA-KI Pearl SACD player - package deal for $2,000. These were limited production itemsfrom about 6 years ago, reviewed as "hot rodded" versions of the PM 15s2 and SA 15s2. Amp is rated at 90WPC. No built in DAC but both MM and MC phono input, No balanced outputs.

Marantz PM 11s3 - $2,000 amp is current model and rated at 100 WPC. MM/MC input Balanced inputs

My dilemma is whether to buy the PM11s3 and retain the SA8004 or go with the Pearl combo. The latter would be at least $500-$600 less expensive as I could sell both of my existing pieces, but the larger amp may be materially better. In this case I would not benefit from balanced inputs now but might in the future

I can also just stay with what I have if the $2k will not make a materially sonic improvement. These are very good prices so I need to act quickly. Appreciate any feedback.

[Mr Peabody]

Not having heard those Marantz units I'd go with the Pearl set up. You'd be getting both improved digital playback and amp, so it would be more of an overall upgrade, where getting just the 11s is just the amp upgrade. The Reference is better sounding than the standard Marantz and if the Pearl is supposed to be better than that..... seems the way to go. Unless you stream music, then you may want the 11s and upgrade to a Marantz Reference piece later with streaming capability.

XLR inputs isn't anything if the amp isn't a balanced design. Just means XLR is another type of input. I'd have to look at the 11s specs to see if balanced.

I'm really not familiar enough with each Focal model to help you there.

[blackraven]

I agree, go with the Pearl. You may just want to go with the amp and then go with a free standing DAC and keep your 8004 if you listen to digital music more than CD's. Don't worry about XLR's. My system is fully balanced with XLR's and I really can't hear a difference. Just use good cables.

If you want to save some money, consider the Clear Audio Concept TT or Music Hall MMF7.1se. The money saved can go to a really nice cartridge like an Ortofon Black or a clear audio Virtuoso. Or you can buy a really nice phono preamp like a Jolida JD9 MKII

[Feanor]

The Marantz PM-KI Pearl is quite appealing.

Just the same, I might look to compare it with one or two other options in the same price range, e.g. ...

Cambridge Azur 851A (https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/851/851a)

[sjtm]

I agree, go with the Pearl. You may just want to go with the amp and then go with a free standing DAC and keep your 8004 if you listen to digital music more than CD's. Don't worry about XLR's. My system is fully balanced with XLR's and I really can't hear a difference. Just use good cables.

If you want to save some money, consider the Clear Audio Concept TT or Music Hall MMF7.1se. The money saved can go to a really nice cartridge like an Ortofon Black or a clear audio Virtuoso. Or you can buy a really nice phono preamp like a Jolida JD9 MKII

Appreciate all the feedback. I already bought the TT - got a great deal at $850 including a Grado Prestige Gold cart and VPI interconnects. The design and construction quality is very impressive - it has three stacked plinths isolated from each other with sorbothane spacers. The motor is entirely seperate from the plinth. It has a built in speed controller and a single piece Pro-ject 9cc carbon fiber tonearm with plenty of adjustability. I just set it up last night and plan to hit the used vinyl store today.

It seems the consenus is the Pearl. These are only available as a package deal( IA and SACD), but at $2,000 for both , they seem to be a good value.

I have already commited to buy the Focal 836v speakers. I have someone interested in my 816v's which will mean my net cost to upgrade is $300. The frequency response extends down to 40hz vs 47hz of my 816v. Both extend up to 28khz. Comparable speakers were the Paradigm Studio 100V5 and the PSB Imagine T2. The Paradigm extends 45hz-23khz,the PSB is 35hz-23khz. However, the cheapest I could fiind either of these used were $2,500+/pair. At $1,150 for the pair, and given the amazing sound quality of the 836v's, I am very pleased. I demoed both the PSB and Paradigm speakers that were comparable to my 816V's and the Focals were my clear preference.

Looking forward to experimenting a little with the TT. I have not formed any opinions on the sonic differences of various carts, as I have nowhere locally to audition them. I would appreciate any opinions on good alternates to the Grado Gold.

[sjtm]

The Marantz PM-KI Pearl is quite appealing.

Just the same, I might look to compare it with one or two other options in the same price range, e.g. ...

Cambridge Azur 851A (https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/851/851a)

I actually demo'd a new 851a last summer, but still preferred the sound of the PM8005.

[blackraven]

I actually demo'd a new 851a last summer, but still preferred the sound of the PM8005.

Marantz has its own house sound, so I am not surprised. Great deal on the TT.

[sjtm]

I actually demo'd a new 851a last summer, but still preferred the sound of the PM8005.

Actually I was mistaken -I demo'd the 651A - completely different component feature / quality etc.

[Mr Peabody]

The Pearl set up with the 836's should be a good sounding system.

The Grado is sort of on the warm or colored side of the cart spectrum. You might look at the Dynavector 10x5 which is a high output MC that will play through a MM phono stage. It's more toward neutral and really popular at it's price point. Ortofon has a broad line of carts both MM & MC, they are typically a very lively sound. Benz will move you toward neutral without quite reaching it if you wanted to move in steps that direction. How happy are you with the Grado? If satisfied may be no reason to change unless just curious. Some of the Clearaudio MM carts are good I'm just not heard much feedback on how they work with various brands of tables. Then there's carts like the Denon, 103 I believe, that is a stone classic, not the most accurate but people love the way it sounds. It's pretty cheap to comparatively. There's a slew of other things out there too I'm not yet familiar with.

[blackraven]

Warm is good!

[sjtm]

The Pearl set up with the 836's should be a good sounding system.

The Grado is sort of on the warm or colored side of the cart spectrum. You might look at the Dynavector 10x5 which is a high output MC that will play through a MM phono stage. It's more toward neutral and really popular at it's price point. Ortofon has a broad line of carts both MM & MC, they are typically a very lively sound. Benz will move you toward neutral without quite reaching it if you wanted to move in steps that direction. How happy are you with the Grado? If satisfied may be no reason to change unless just curious. Some of the Clearaudio MM carts are good I'm just not heard much feedback on how they work with various brands of tables. Then there's carts like the Denon, 103 I believe, that is a stone classic, not the most accurate but people love the way it sounds. It's pretty cheap to comparatively. There's a slew of other things out there too I'm not yet familiar with.

Frankly, right now it is like someone forgot to lock up the amusement park and I snuck in. I am so enamoured by the overall sound, I am not really finding things to complain about. Perhaps I never will. Without an opportunity to hear other carts ( or turntables for that matter) my frame of reference is almost non-existent.

I bought a couple of albums today, cleaned them with my new Spin Clean and threw them on the TT. Could not pull myself away.

I have been reading many reviews and had narrowed in on three options: Dynavector 10x5; Clearaudio Virtuoso V2 and Ortofon 2m Black. All seem to have great reviews. I am trying to figure out which might be distinctly different in sonic performance than the Grado Gold. A little pricier but possible alternatives are the Dynavector 20x2 and the Audio Technica AT150ANV. If any one has direct experience with any of these, I would love to hear from you.

[Mr Peabody]

I had a 10x5 for a long time, still do actually, just not mounted on anything. I'm now using the Clearaudio Maestro which is top of the MM line where the Virtuoso I believe is next step down.

The 10x5 is detailed with good bass, in my system seemed not to be as extended on the top end as some. To me it seems to lack that something that brings emotion to the music. At $450.00 or so it's a very good performer.

The Virtuoso based on my cart and hearing other Clearaudio carts would have nice texture to the music, extended on both frequency extremes and easy to listen to without being overly warm.

The 2m Black would be the largest difference from the Grado, it's fast and lively with extended highs & punchy bass. My friend used one of these on his 7.1. It would be interesting to hear this cart through Focals as I find them to also have a lively sound. Would they compliment each other or be too much of a good thing.

So from your Grado which I call warm and moving away to a more neutral sound would be the Virtuoso, then 10x5, then the 2m Black. Although I did find the 2m Black to be more engaging to me over the 10x5. I can't quite put my finger on it, the 10x5 is more sterile or technical where the other two have a bit more boogie factor. Clearaudio just not as punchy or energized as the Ortofon. The Ortofon just let's it all hang out where the Clearaudio keeps a bit of reserve. The Clearaudio is also some smoother, or is that saying the same thing in a different way, LOL.

If you do a search for Clearaudio Concept review you should find a review where Stereophile talks about that table with the Virtuoso. Any of the 3 are well regarded.

I hope this helps some

[Mr Peabody]

Warm is good!

You don't like warm, you just don't know it yet, LOLOL

[sjtm]

I had a 10x5 for a long time, still do actually, just not mounted on anything. I'm now using the Clearaudio Maestro which is top of the MM line where the Virtuoso I believe is next step down.

The 10x5 is detailed with good bass, in my system seemed not to be as extended on the top end as some. To me it seems to lack that something that brings emotion to the music. At $450.00 or so it's a very good performer.

The Virtuoso based on my cart and hearing other Clearaudio carts would have nice texture to the music, extended on both frequency extremes and easy to listen to without being overly warm.

The 2m Black would be the largest difference from the Grado, it's fast and lively with extended highs & punchy bass. My friend used one of these on his 7.1. It would be interesting to hear this cart through Focals as I find them to also have a lively sound. Would they compliment each other or be too much of a good thing.

So from your Grado which I call warm and moving away to a more neutral sound would be the Virtuoso, then 10x5, then the 2m Black. Although I did find the 2m Black to be more engaging to me over the 10x5. I can't quite put my finger on it, the 10x5 is more sterile or technical where the other two have a bit more boogie factor. Clearaudio just not as punchy or energized as the Ortofon. The Ortofon just let's it all hang out where the Clearaudio keeps a bit of reserve. The Clearaudio is also some smoother, or is that saying the same thing in a different way, LOL.

If you do a search for Clearaudio Concept review you should find a review where Stereophile talks about that table with the Virtuoso. Any of the 3 are well regarded.

I hope this helps some

Wow - thanks for this assessment. All of these options were a bit of a toss up as they all appear well regarded, but I have noticed the Ortofon 2m black seems to be a more popular choice. It is therefore more readily available on the used market ( I am a commited genlty used buyer).

I think I will try to develop an appreciation for the Grado for now. Sooner or later though....

[blackraven]

You don't like warm, you just don't know it yet, LOLOL

I live in Minnesota, so anything warm is good.

The warm Grado's might be a good fit with the Focal speakers though.