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12-10-2015, 03:04 PM
Hi all,

I am a novice audiophile with a basic (at best) understanding of technology. However I have been doing some research, and after accumulating some info, decided to join the forum and ask a question.

I have 2 Tannoy Definition tower speakers, Tannoy Eyris C center, and 2 Eyris 1 rears. For an amplifier I got Nakamichi PA-5, and CA-5 for a preamp. Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver.
I will use Nakamichi PA5 for the towers. For the rest I thought of getting Nakamchi TA-4A (100W center and sub) TA-2A5 50W or SR4A 60W for the rears (50W).
Is such set up possible or I am nuts? I only considered it after learning that Nakamichi SR and TA receivers/amplifiers are inexpensive yet very high quality. Designed by Nelson Pass.
If I can pull it off, what is the optimal way of connecting all this equipment. Please, pardon my ignorance.

12-10-2015, 11:12 PM
If you are going to use this set up for Home Theater then stick with the Onkyo as I ascribe to the "KISS" method which means Keep It Simple, Stupid. I am not calling you stupid but it is an old acronym for electronics and it applies to many things. If you want to use the front speakers for 2ch audio with the Nakamichi gear as well as for Home Theater then the best bet is to get an amp switcher like this from Niles Audio unless your preamp has a home theater by pass option. I have used their products and they work well.

DPS-1 | Switching Systems | Niles Audio (http://www.nilesaudio.com/product.php?prodID=DPS-1&recordID=Source%20Switching%20Systems&categoryID=Switching%20Systems&catcdID=10&prdcdID=FG00003)

Mr Peabody
12-11-2015, 12:38 PM
If you think you might listen to 5 channel music you should have all the channels similar power, however, that can be compensated for somewhat in the set up of the receiver. And, your subwoofer wouldn't need an amp unless using a passive sub which is unusual for home theater.

You could use the Onkyo solely for home theater and the Nak system for two channel, if sharing the main speakers physically switching the cables at back of speaker depending on what system you want to listen to. I know it can be inconvenient, it's what I do.

If the Nak preamp has bypass which isn't likely if it's an older preamp, and, if the 809 offers preamp outputs, you run from the 809 main L/R outs into the Nak preamp. You can do the same set up running the 809 preamp outs into a regular AUX input of the Nak but you'd have to have some way to remember the volume level on the Nak when using home theater. This could be easy if the preamp has a digital volume read out. If it's analog I used a piece of tape before.

When using this type set up you could use the receiver to drive the center and rears while the Nak would drive mains.

The receiver has a sub out or "LFE" you plug your sub into. If you want sub for both music & HT, well, that's another story :)

12-11-2015, 03:54 PM
Thank you guys. Much clearer now. I thought I'd be able to use all speakers for audio. I am not quite clear on one thing. Will I be able to run front speakers through the amplifier with all others through Onkyo using the device in the first post?

12-11-2015, 04:57 PM
The Niles audio switcher will allow you to use the front speakers with the Onkyo and the Nakamichi. It allows you to connect 2 amps to 1 pair of speakers so that you can switch between amps. You hook up the main speaker outputs of both amps to the Niles switcher and then connect the speaker out of the switcher to the pair of speakers that you want to run, which in your case is the large front speakers.

12-11-2015, 05:07 PM
Also guys could you explain to me what this might mean. In the manual for CA-5, (amplifier connection section) it says that "the unit provides two sets of line outputs, so that two power amplifiers can be driven simultaneously, if desired." I am sorry for being persistent and perhaps stupid, in being that way, but doesn't this mean that 4 speakers can be run simultaneously (2 per each amp)?

12-11-2015, 05:26 PM
Yes, you can run 2 amps or 1 amp and 1 powered subwoofer.

12-12-2015, 01:06 PM
Tried to connect 2 main speakers via pre out in my Onkyo using picture number 2 from this link
Fluance - Bi-Amp or Bi-Wire Instructions (http://fluance.com/knowledge/Bi_Amp_or_Bi_Wire_Instructions.4.html)
Nothing but hum. Removed red and black on each side and sound appeared but with buzz again and no amplification. What might I be doing wrong?

12-12-2015, 04:56 PM
You need to connect the speakers to the speaker out not to preamp out.

Mr Peabody
12-12-2015, 06:58 PM
A receiver has both preamp and power sections, so when coming out of the preamp output it has to go into a power amp because you tapped the signal before it goes to the power section of the receiver. That's why if using two systems the Onkyo preamp outputs go into the Nak preamp which then feeds it to the Nak power amp then out to the speakers. If you want to hear sound without using the Nak, then as Blackraven said, connect the speakers to the speaker terminals.

12-13-2015, 04:14 AM
I connected speakers to Nak amplifier, which I connected to pre-outs on the receiver. Bi wired. Nothing but hum. Perhaps something in the Onkyo setting needs to be changed. My center speaker is connected to speaker out of Onkyo, and whenever I try to plug in the cables connecting Nak and Onkyo into the latter even the center starts to hum a little. I do it while playing music on very low volume.

12-13-2015, 04:20 AM
I don't have a preamp yet. Nak CA-5 is coming. My understanding was that pre-outs on Onkyo serve as a pre-amp. I thought it would allow me to have a home theater and with a switch of the cables from AV to a preamp, access to all audio options with main speakers.

12-13-2015, 05:18 AM
You are correct, that the onkyo can act as a preamp. Check the settings on the premap. I would also hook up the speakers to the onkyo to see if you get sound. Don't biwire yet, keep things simple till you figure out the problem. It could be that the Nak amp is bad.

12-13-2015, 06:39 AM
- Changed the setting on Onkyo. All except for front speakers were switched off
- Until yesterday ran speakers on Onkyo. No problem
- A regular wiring is 1 red and black to the speaker and amp? Currently 2 red 2 blacks. Tried it with 1 red 1 black on amp. Sound comes out with hum. Actually, as soon as I try to put the cable into the Onlyo, even the center which was connected to Onkyo hums slightly. And this is with Nak switched off. Could the cable be the problem? I am new to it all and could do something stupid. Got an audio cable form WM.
- Nak is in pristine condition. Although anything is possible. Will test it with preamp, which is coming soon.

Mr Peabody
12-13-2015, 12:39 PM
What I would do is hook the speakers to the Onkyo first until you get it set up and working then try adding the Nak amp. What was "bi-wired"?

There are so many variables with A/V receivers, you usually have to set the inputs, for instance, if you have an input that say "CD" you may have to go in and assign which analog input and turn of the videio, or, for DVD you may have to go in and assign HDMI 1, or whatever.

Then you go into the speaker set up menu and tell the receiver what speakers you have and set the levels etc. Yours may even have an auto set up with microphone.

12-13-2015, 06:29 PM
Do your speakers still work with the Onkyo? I am not clear on that. If you are connecting cables and speaker wire to your gear, everything should be turned off. You may have shorted something if the Onkyo is no longer playing sound. If music plays fine through the Onkyo but you get a hum with the Nak, it could be that one of your Interconnects has a broken ground.

12-13-2015, 11:51 PM
I connected all speakers to Onkyo and everything works.

12-14-2015, 09:50 AM
Do you get music from the front speakers when you hook them up to the Nak but with a hum? If so it may be a ground loop. You can test this by using an extension cord with the Nak and plug it into a totally different circuit in another part of the house.

What interconnects are you using to connect the onkyo to the Nak?

12-14-2015, 04:01 PM
Yes I do get hum with music. Mostly hum. What would you suggest for an interconnect? I am still in a learning process and may have gotten something not suitable.

12-14-2015, 04:07 PM
Well, what are you using for interconnects? A way to test the IC's would be to use the IC's that you are using for the NAK between a CD or DVD player and your Onkyo and see if you get a hum while the speakers are connected to the Onkyo. If there is no hum then there is a problem with the preamp out, the Nak amp or a ground loop. It is mostly hum then I suspect it is not a ground loop and a problem with the Onkyo or Nak.

If you want an excellent budget IC, then look at Blue Jeans cables.

Stereo Cables at Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/)

12-15-2015, 01:44 AM
Thank you Blackraven. Grabbed the interconnects you suggested. Have not tested my current ones. Will tonight.

12-15-2015, 02:52 PM
Tested the interconnect with CD player via Onkyo. Everything works fine. So it must be either the setting on Onkyo, the receiver itself of the amp. By the end of the week should get the preamplifier. Testing it will identify the culprit.

12-15-2015, 04:36 PM
You guys brought up ground loop. My cable box is sitting right on top of Onkyo. Thinking of getting ground loop isolator for the cable. I see RCA ones as well. Should I get those too? Any suggestions on what type?

12-15-2015, 08:30 PM
first connect your Nak up to an outlet that is on a different circuit and see if it takes care of the hum.

12-17-2015, 06:13 PM
Got everything set up. Both amp and preamp work beautifully. Sound coming from Nak tuner is awesome. CD player, on the other hand - meh. So all works. Noticed that the cable for disconnected several times. Unthinking hat may have been an issue all along. Not sure though. Tomorrow will try to connect with blue jean when it comes. Had to go to Radio shack to get a cable today. Could not wait. Glad I did. Everything works and I am thoroughly enjoying it.
Regarding home theater. Have been eyeing a passive sub locally. Is it worth it? Will sinificantly underpower my Onkyo for the rest of the speakers?

Mr Peabody
12-17-2015, 08:13 PM
Glad things are coming together.

How are you going to use the sub, for both music & movies? I'd think a powered sub with the many possible features would be a simpler way to go. The passive would need one of your channels of amplification or it's own external amp. Then if for music you may need a crossover, depends on how versatile your receiver's bass management is.

12-17-2015, 09:02 PM
What Mr P said!

12-19-2015, 02:50 AM
I was thinking for theater only. Then again, how important is a sub while listening to music. Seems like the speakers produce good amount of bass. Down the road, I am planning on bi-amping. Nakamichi PA-7 low and PA-5 high.
I am not planning on using the received to listen to music. My Nakamichi tuner sounds great. Eventually I will accumulate other equipment, which I will run through the preamp.
Does not seem like there is a simple solution with the sub. My thinking actually was that if I resolve the original problem, that is to get the Onkyo to power main speaker via pre-outs, I would have good amount of juice left in the receiver, perhaps to power a passive sub with potentially sufficient amount of power. At least such combination seemed somewhat meaningful. Now as I am writing, I think powered sun plus distribution of remaining juice to the rest of the speakers is a better solution.
The only problem is to get Onkyo to cooperate.

So now I have tested everything. All components work. Amp, cables, Onlyo (other than pre-outs). What could the problem be?

12-19-2015, 09:20 AM
All you have to do is hook up the powered sub to the sub out on the onkyo and you should be able to use if for music or HT.

12-19-2015, 09:51 AM
I think I might have found the problem. In this thread Onkyo TX-NR809 preout problem (http://onkyoproductsupport.forumotion.com/t403-onkyo-tx-nr809-preout-problem)

From what I understood there could be mismatch between amp and receiver.
I wonder of this is something that can be remediated.

12-19-2015, 11:49 AM
you could use a tube buffer to correct the impedance mismatch

12-20-2015, 03:14 AM
Thanks Raven. May I ask what a tube buffer is.

12-20-2015, 05:37 AM
Thanks Raven. May I ask what a tube buffer is.

Here, this explains it-

Purity Audio Design Harmony Tube Buffer FAQ (http://www.purityaudiodesign.com/harmony%20faq.htm)

Before buying a tube buffer (there are a few to choose from like Yaqin or Grant Fidelity among others) be sure that an impedance mismatch is the problem so you don't waste money. What are you hearing to think that it is a mismatch?

12-20-2015, 07:13 AM
Just hum. I just thought I tried everything else. Also seems like the guy in the quoted thread had a similar issue. I am planning on joining Onkyo support forum to ask my specific question.
You are. The tube buffers are expensive. Need to be sure.

12-21-2015, 07:54 AM
I just tried something else. I have OPPO dvd and cd in addition to an old CD player. Old CD worked fine. OPPO, however, produces the same volume hum as the Onkyo, except you can actually hear the sound of music clearly. In the case of Onkyo nothing but hum.

12-21-2015, 09:22 AM
I would like you to try something. Do any of your CD or DVD player's that makes the hum have a digital out put like an optical out? If so, connect it to the Onkyo via one of the digital optical inputs and see if you get a hum. My bet is that you don't get the hum and that it may be an issue with the RCA input on the Onkyo.

On last thing. Have you tried plugging the CD player into another electrical socket that is on a different circuit? You may need a long ext. cord.

12-21-2015, 09:38 AM
I ran the Oppo using RCA cables through preamp - amp. It works with Onkyo well. No issues. I just wanted to hear how it sounds using Nak. I will try a different outlet for the Oppo.

12-21-2015, 10:51 AM
Plugged into a separate outlet using a long extension cord. Same issue. When I put RCA cable into OPPO or ONKYO speakers hum loudly. Tuner with the same cable work well.

Mr Peabody
12-21-2015, 07:51 PM
What input are you plugging into on the Nak? I'm assuming you are talking about the Nak preamp?

I'm wondering if you aren't having a similar issue as myself. I tried to run my HT preamp into the bypass input of my Pass preamp so I wouldn't have to switch speaker cables. The sound came through but I had a hum that was audible and I couldn't get rid of it no matter what I did. I used different cable, plugging gear into different outlets, tried to isolate the component, etc. It just had something to do with the connection between the two. I'm sure it's a freak ground issue. It's even more frustrating because all my gear is plugged into power conditioners and I use aftermarket power cords.

12-22-2015, 04:31 PM
I figured it out guys. It was the TV. Unplugged the cable and all seems to work. Although I am slightly disillusioned by the sound. It is not what I expected to come out. There is a slight amount of amplification, but overall same flat experience. Possibly I may have not connected properly, but I tested by switching amp on and off on low volume. Meh.
I was originally thinking of eventually getting a 5 channel amp like Audio Refinement multi five, and bi amping fronts with it and the Nak, and powering center and backs with remaining channels for surround experience. The second intended purpose of the 5 channel inthiught woukd be to enhance the sound of home theater. In other words to be used with Onkyo to amplify 5 speakers. Coming to conclusion that the former set up maybe excessive, as two fronts seem to oroduce all I need. The latter, on the other hand,seems ineffective and unimpressive.

Mr Peabody
12-23-2015, 12:26 PM
Have you tried using the Onkyo auto speaker set up? The equalization helps a lot. There is also sound settings on the remote "music" "movie" etc. that may help.

When adding an external amp you need to get one that will be enough of an upgrade in quality it makes it worth while.

12-24-2015, 12:09 AM
Thanks Mr. Peabody. By auto speaker set up you mean the Audessey? I went into speaker set up and played with it few times. Did not see auto.

I have Nakamichi PA-5. Is it not powerful enough to make a difference? I thought it was pretty good amp in terms of quality.

Mr Peabody
12-24-2015, 08:26 AM
In your speaker set up you should have the option of manual or auto. Auto does use Audessey and you have to have the receiver's microphone plugged in. The receiver will have you position the mic in a few places in the room then it calculates a good response based on its readings from the mic. Both the Onkyo I had and my Marantz seems to sound much better with the Audessey EQ on.

The Nak amp should be good. Not so much confidence in Audio Refinement.

12-24-2015, 09:10 AM
It's strange that you feel that there is not enough power. That Onkyo puts out 130wpc and the Nak is 100wpc x7 with 30 peak amps. Both have enough power to drive demanding speakers.

12-24-2015, 11:22 AM
The difference is almost negligible. Perhaps I have not connected it correctly, or did not choose the right setting. Maybe there is an issue with pre-outs.

Mr. Peabody
Will try Audissey. See what happens.

12-24-2015, 01:56 PM
You will not notice any significant difference in power between the Onkyo and the Nak. Now you may notice differences in dynamic's and the way the power is delivered on dynamic music with peaks and valleys. There may be differences in detail, sound stage and tone. If you really want better sound you need to move up the food chain to more expensive gear. I noticed a significant improvement in going from a $2K amplifier to a used $6K amp. And 2 other big leaps in going from a $2k preamp to a used $9K preamp as well as a better DAC. I am not saying that you need to spend that kind of money to get a nice improvement in sound, but you get my point.

Also, the sound is only as good as your weakest link. What music source and speakers are you using? What type of music are you listening to? Poorly recorded music, MP3's and such are not a good measure of what as system is capable of.

12-25-2015, 10:28 AM
Thanks Blackraven.
My only reason to power Fronts via Onkyo preout is to have a better 5.1 HT experience, and to improve the sound of music I am playing on Amazon TV. My wife bought quite a few songs from them so I though might as well listen to it at an optimum which I am trying to discover. I understand it is not by far ideal source. As you mentioned it is quite the opposite.
I made several changes and bi worse center and rears. Made quite difference. Fronts do sound better now too. May be I did not connect something right last time. Like you said, not much in terms of power,Bhutan not bad as far as detail. Overall I am happy.

My fronts are Tannoy definition. center and rear Eyris.
My only good source is Nak tuner. Getting a turntable soon. Planning on gradually acquiring different sources overtime and DAC too.
$ is an issue of course. Looking for gems such as my Nak pa-5 which I got for $350. Any advice regarding what is out there for short money will be greatly appreciated.

12-25-2015, 10:43 AM
Related to the post above.
I am planning eventually on getting a second amp to biamp the fronts. It will be the first upgrade I was thinking of. With regards to this I have a stupid question.
I was thinking of a three channel amp. Sine I have a 2 channel already, a thee channel one will power the remaining speakers. This is both for home threater and music listening.
What I can't figure out if I can run 2 amps from my Onkyo receiver. I am still struggling somewhat with understanding of how sound technology operates.
Does a 3 channel amp need 3 preouts?
On separate note, my Nak preamp has two sets of outs for 2 separate amps. Can I power a 3 channel and my 2 channel amps from a total of 4 outs on the pre-amp?

12-25-2015, 11:37 AM
I think that you may be wasting your time trying to improve on the HT experience by using separate amps. That Onkyo is an excellent HT AVR. You will just be complicating things and wasting money. You would be better off just buying a higher end AVR than to start messing with multi channel amps and trying to mess with the different sound and volume levels of different amps and all the different cables and space that the gear takes up. In addition, you will still be using the Onkyo's preamp section which will be the weak link of the system if you decide to go with higher end amps. I would rather see you buy an amp switcher for the front speakers and switch between your Onkyo for HT and the Nak gear for 2ch. This way, you will be able to use what ever preamp and amp you want for 2 ch Music (I use to use this type of system). Marantz and NAD make some great sounding AVR's and they would be good for 2ch music as well. Marantz also puts quality sounding phono preamps in their gear.

MARANTZ SR7007 7.2 125wpc 4K Airplay A/V Receiver | Accessories4less (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr7007/marantz-sr7007-7.2-125wpc-4k-airplay-a/v-receiver/1.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA7_OzBRDA8OfT3orp51oSJACVqslI-_tjk2H-TvPYHUmrSOWgR_RMZRV72LGZD3O0yPfmZhoC2nTw_wcB#!spec ifications)

MARANTZ SR6010 7.2 Atmos Full 4K AV Receiver Wi-Fi/BT/AirPlay | Accessories4less (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr6010/marantz-sr6010-7.2-atmos-full-4k-av-receiver-wi-fi/bt/airplay/1.html)

TV music is going to sound flat. Are you running TV music to the receiver via digital inputs so that you are using the receivers internal dac? That would be the best route.

A three channel amps will have a left and right as well as a center or 3rd set of inputs as well as 3 sets of outputs. So you would run your front and center outputs from the Onkyo to the 3 channel amp for the front 3 speakers and use the speaker outs on the onkyo for the rear speakers.

What is your budget for gear and do you plan on doing computer based music. For DAC's IFI and Schitt Audio make some nice DAC's in the $400-500 range. But there are cheaper good sounding DAC's. Going the used route can get you a nice DAC.

Again with out knowing your budget, there are some very good sounding TT's in the $250-500 range such as the Pro-Ject Carbon Debut DC, Denon DP-300F, Teac TN-300.

12-26-2015, 05:33 AM
Thanks Blackraven.
Yo guessed my budget correctly. Up to $500 and I am willing to go pre-owned rout. That is what I have been doing.
Decided to leave Onkyo alone and use the switch between the systems. Eventually want to get a second more powerful amp like Nak P-7 to biamp fronts with my current P-5. Might biwire fronts and rears with 7 and 5 respectively. See what makes most sense. Speaking of a second more powerful amp. Any recommendations in that regard? P7 is pretty expensive considering budgetary limitations, but I am planning on waiting and saving to get it. Not sure if there is anything else out there matching in quality and price. I am eyeing Craigslist, and see someone selling 250w Carver A500x for $375. Also, 150-200w Nak 5II on Audiogon.

Thanks in advance.

Mr Peabody
12-26-2015, 06:23 AM
Adcom amps are a great deal used. If you got lucky a Threshold would be a real find. I would avoid Carver, they are not the most reliable amps.

For a budget amp you might look at the Emotiva for new.

For $500.00 you can get a decent DAC for Arcam or Cambridge Audio. The Schitt are coming on strong with performing beyond their price. The guys are from another large company, I'm thinking maybe Theta but not sure.

12-26-2015, 06:42 AM
Thanks Mr.Peabody. I will be on a lookout for a Tredhold. PA-7 I coukd be expansive but I really want it. So will go on a lookout for that. What do you think of this one

Mr Peabody
12-26-2015, 04:12 PM
that looks like a pretty good deal.

Thanks Mr.Peabody. I will be on a lookout for a Tredhold. PA-7 I coukd be expansive but I really want it. So will go on a lookout for that. What do you think of this one

01-05-2016, 04:45 PM
Hi guys.

Had new ideas and wanted to ask your opinion. Remember I could not figure out how to split systems and use Onkyo and Nak to drive fronts separately?
Mr Peabody suggested Niles switch. I thought of it, but decided to go another rout. Got two Pioneer dss-7 speakers. They sound awesome and I am using them now as main speakers. All Tannoys are now used strictly for HT.
Now I started doing some research with a goal of enhancing HT experience and perhaps finding something that will maximize potential of Tannoy speakers. Both in terms home theater and audio exoerience.
I came across Luxman R series. Even though 117 is not anywhere to be found there are plenty of 114s and 115s. Very inexpensive.
My questions are:
- Can they be used for video/cable TV?
- Why do they have 4 speaker outs. Can 4 speakers be driven by them?
- I saw preouts on the pictures. Are they for another amp?

How awesome would it be to have even R 115 with 70 wpc to allow for an improved HT and an alternative audio set and experience. .

01-07-2016, 10:46 AM
Older receivers use to have an A-B button so you could switch between 2 sets of speakers. You could use the Luxman 117 for TV if the TV has analog out puts. If not then you can buy a cheap DAC and run that between the TV and receiver.

Mr Peabody
01-07-2016, 08:14 PM
If your HT system is for HT I wouldn't go with a vintage receiver, you need the HT features of a HT receiver. Besides that Onkyo receivers are higher current than most so to your ears you won't really perceive more power. In fact, it may sound like less. I had one of those R series Luxman receivers, it was very clear sounding, seemingly with a bit of emphasis in the treble, bass was decent but not a big bass sound. If memory serves I believe it did have a couple filter switches to adjust the sound some.

I had an Onkyo..... 515? I did replace it with a Marantz 1605. The 1605 just rated at 50 watts per channel still sounded better to me and fuller. I was surprised, I didn't think there'd be much difference in HT receivers of similar price.

It just doesn't make sense to me to go vintage with a bunch of work arounds, which will cost, in a HT system.

The DAC in the HT receiver directs the movie soundtrack to your various speakers in your surround set up. So messing with a stereo receiver defeats your purpose. Wow, I think I somehow stepped on a soapbox, LOL. done

01-07-2016, 09:15 PM
Well said Mr. P.

01-09-2016, 02:04 AM
Thank Mr. Peabody. I agree. Stereo receiver is a bad idea. I guess my obsession is with trying to extract as much sound out of whichever set up I will end up with as possible.

So I decided to go with Nakamichi AV 10. (I know it is an older piece, and I was forewarned by you guys not to mess around with older equipment.) After looking through some of the threads on other forums, I found several fairly recent reports of successful set up with current equipment, such as apple TV, for example. I have Amazon fire with optical connection similar to what was described.
It is a 5.1 surround sound receiver with 100WPC and decent, as they say DAC, producing good sound with a CDs.
Connections are either optical or coaxial. The only issue maybe cable. I got an HDMI to component adaptor. We will see how it works
Bluray plugs directly into projector via HDMI and sound optical through Receiver.

One thing I don't quite understand on the receiver is the pre-outs. There are 6 of them. Two fronts, center, rears and sub. My primary focus here is sub, although I am curious about the rest as well. I read that an RCA cable is used directly from the sub pre-out into powered sub. Is it true? I don't have to use subwoofer amplifier for that?
With regards to the rest of the pre-outs. Are they to be used, if I choose so, via an amp? If set up works out I will have plenty of power with 100 WPC. I my possibly power the fronts with an extra amp.
It is just strange that there would be 5 pre-outs, provided that the sub is a separate thing altogether. Do they presuppose a use of 5 channel amp or whichever combination with 5 channels?

JoeE SP9
01-09-2016, 06:30 AM
Yes, the sub pre out goes directly to a powered sub. The rest of the pre outs are there to use if you want more/different power for those channels.

01-09-2016, 07:49 AM
Thanks Joe

01-09-2016, 09:34 AM
Regular RCA audio cable?

01-09-2016, 10:11 AM
Yes, you can use regular RCA cables or a sub cable with an RCA Y adapter depending upon whether your sub has a single RCA or 2 RCA inputs.

01-09-2016, 12:59 PM
Thanks Raven

01-09-2016, 02:57 PM
What sub are you planning on using?

If you are looking for some good and affordable sub cables or 2 RCA's for sub use, take a look at these-

Subwoofer Cables for active Sub Woofers (http://www.ramelectronics.net/Subwoofer-Cables.aspx)

Stereo Interconnect with Silver Plated RCA Connectors, dual Belden 1505F Cables and Viablue Red Sleeving (http://www.ramelectronics.net/RAMFLEXSA.aspx)

Stereo Cable Interconnect with Silver Plated RCA Connectors and Belden 1505F Cables (http://www.ramelectronics.net/FLEXSA.aspx)

They won't break the bank if you need 6-10 feet or more.

01-09-2016, 06:25 PM
Ran out of resources so went with an inexpensive sub. Mirage m-12. Seems like it needs Y cable.
Thanks for the links

01-09-2016, 07:18 PM
Ran out of resources so went with an inexpensive sub. Mirage m-12. Seems like it needs Y cable.
Thanks for the links

Mirage makes some nice musical subs. Is it the Omni S12?

01-10-2016, 03:49 AM
The sub I got for $25 is Mirage MS-12. Thought it was a good deal. The overall Mirage brand is reviewed fairly well, not sure about this particular sub. Does not seem too bad. What do you think about this particular one?
I have not picked it up yet, and will test it either tomorrow with a cable from a local RadioShack. In the interim I will get one of the cables you suggested blackraven. It is bipolar so I will need a Y cable.

01-10-2016, 04:03 AM
A question about turntable needle/cartriges. I got a older Kenwood KD 76F from my father-in-law. Works really well. He has not used it in ages. I was curious about cartridge replacement and all. How do I know if it needs replacement soon and where would I even look for one that fits this turntable. Perhaps there are nice cartriges that fit many models?

Also he brought one old vinyl Chicago and it sounded awesome o Pioneers DSS-7. I played loud and on couple of occasions the needle skipped. The bass on the speakers makes the room vibrate. AS soon as I turned the volume down it went back to normal. It only happened on the first track both sides. Other tracks I blasted without side-effects
Yesterday I picked up a couple of vinyl's from Newbury Comics. They start skipping and doing unpleasant "vibrato" with volume turned half that of Chicago old record. Is it the quality of modern records? I am sure the placement of turntable and elevation of the speakers plays into this too.

Also, and this is a side note, it seemed like some pieces on the record sounded worse than others. I came to conclusion that I need to do a thorough research prior to buying a record. Even though, my understanding is that vinyl is supposed to produce highest quality sound, not all vinyl's have been created equal. Is that true?

01-10-2016, 04:10 AM

Which Y cable would you suggest? Among the ones you listed I did not see any. Nak AV 10 has only one sub out

01-10-2016, 09:45 AM

Pictures of the MS-12 show that it has 2 RCA low level inputs not one. So you won't need a Y connector but you will need 2 RCA cables. Here is the manual and a picture of the rear of the MS-12. It looks like a decent older sub. It has good weight to it.

Here is a Y connector that I use to use. It is well made-

Monster Cable 1 Female/2 Male RCA Y-Adapter at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_119ILJRY1F/Monster-Cable-1-Female-2-Male-RCA-Y-Adapter.html?tp=1934&awkw=75640046545&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=47636619745&awdv=c)

Mirage info-

MIRAGE BPS100 MANUAL Pdf Download. (http://www.manualslib.com/manual/400802/Mirage-Bps100.html#manual)


As far as vibration and skipping of the TT goes, what do you have it sitting on? It may not give you good isolation from vibration since it skips when the volume is high with heavy bass. I was going to say that you don't have the tone arm set up right but from the pictures and and manual it is a cheap linear tracking TT and there are no adjustment. I would save your money and buy a good budget TT with a decent cartridge that won't ruin your Vinyl.

But if you want a new cartridge, look here-

Kenwood KD-76F turntable stylus,Kenwood KD 76F turntable stylus,Kenwood KD76F turntable stylus,Kenwood KD-76F turntable needle stylus,Kenwood KD 76F turntable needle stylus,Kenwood KD76F turntable needle stylus,Kenwood KD-76F turntable stylus needle, (http://www.lpgear.com/product/KENWKD0076F.html)

Here are some well regarded budget TT's-

Turntables | Accessories4less (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/turntables/home-audio/audio-components/turntables/1.html)

The Denon DP-300F is a pretty good entry level TT

Orbit Basic Turntable ? U-Turn Audio (http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/orbit-basic-turntable)

Teac TN-300 Turntable with Phono EQ and USB (Cherry) TN-300-CH (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1108889-REG/teac_tn_300_ch_analog_turntable_with_usb.html)

The Teac is just a beautiful looking TT, and it has good reviews.

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC) (Gloss Black) Manual belt-drive turntable with pre-mounted cartridge at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_252DBCDCGB/Pro-Ject-Debut-Carbon-DC-Gloss-Black.html?tp=200&awkw=81855045265&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=51699415225&awdv=c)

The Orbit is the cheapest and it has very good reviews from the Pro's. The Pro Ject is the best of the bunch.

By the way. Make sure the foam around the woofer on the sub is not deteriorating. If it is, skip it or else you will have to pay some one to refoam it. Don't be in a rush when buying gear, especially used. Save your money and buy something that will last a long time and also sound good.

01-10-2016, 11:20 AM
Thanks Blackraven. Great info. Love the turntables. Will save and buy one of them.
As to the cable, I was just told at RadioShack that the preout on the sub is digital coaxial, and that I need a converter to connect to component sub. I bought it all and was pretty pricy. Saved the receipt To return it.

01-10-2016, 12:12 PM
Thats BS. You should not need a converter as the signal is analog not digital. You can use a digital coax or a single RCA or sub cable to 1 input (usually the left) of the sub or add a Y splitter to both inputs on the sub. Subs do not have a DAC built in to convert a digital signal to analog. You can use RCA cables or digital coax. The guys at Rat Shack don't know what they are talking about. Return the converter.

01-10-2016, 12:14 PM
The only reason to use a Y connector is that some subs will have a higher output if both the L and R inputs are used. A sub is mono not stereo. Read my post above.

01-10-2016, 01:03 PM
i will return the converter. He said that the out on AV receiver is digital and needs to be converted to analog. The preout is black in color which he said indicated bit was digital and needed coax. He said that if you put it analog, the signal will go through but will be distorted.
So I should return the converter and replace it with a spliter or whatever it is called to split the signal from one cable into two?

01-10-2016, 01:42 PM
i will return the converter. He said that the out on AV receiver is digital and needs to be converted to analog. The preout is black in color which he said indicated bit was digital and needed coax. He said that if you put it analog, the signal will go through but will be distorted.
So I should return the converter and replace it with a spliter or whatever it is called to split the signal from one cable into two?

He is wrong. The sub out is a line out which is analog. If it was digital it would be labeled digital out on the receiver. It has both channels combined when it is a single mono output. You don't need the splitter but you can buy one and see if it sounds better. I would consider a nice cable from Ram electronics or Blue Jeans cables. Just make sure that you have an extra 3-4 feet of cable so you can move the sub around for the best sound.

01-10-2016, 01:46 PM
Thanks Blackraven. I will return everything tomorrow and get a Y cable

01-10-2016, 01:50 PM
Bean, why would Nak use a digital out on the sub out when subs do not have a built in DAC? A sub is just like any other speaker. If you needed the signal converted to analog, subs would have built in DAC's.

01-10-2016, 01:54 PM
You are absolutely correct. He bamboozled me. My lack of experience did not help.

01-10-2016, 01:56 PM
If you have any other questions or concerns send me a PM and I will give you my cell number. Getting started and correct info can be confusing.

Mr Peabody
01-10-2016, 07:40 PM
Be aware Blackraven's cell# begins with 900. :)

Sounds like the turntable needs some isolation. Try moving the sub further away if possible. If you are on a wood floor the turntable needs to be on something solid enough it isn't effected so much by the vibrations. I remember some people back in the day suspended their turntable from the ceiling but I never understood how they were able to get it level, if it was.

If the turntable is linear tracking it most likely uses a P-mount type cart. I believe Ortofon still offers some of those.

Remember an LP is just a recording pressed into the vinyl, so if the original recording isn't good the LP sound quality won't be good, and if the original recording was done well you will have a good sounding LP. Now, condition is another story. If you see scratches on the surface of the LP you will hear it, the worse the scratches, the worse it will sound. Buying used, you also don't know what the LP was played on so there may or may not be groove damage. The LP should be as clean as possible. Always return them to their sleeve after playing.

01-11-2016, 01:38 PM
Thanks Mr.Peabody

01-12-2016, 08:35 PM
Bean, check you messages.


01-18-2016, 04:11 PM
So I set up Nakamichi AV10. Sounds really good. Very powerful sound. All systems work.
One question guys. I want to maximize potential of both Tannoys and Pioneers Ran an experiment with Tannoys connecting lows to speaker outs on Nakamichi AV 10 and highs to Nakamichi PA5, using former as a preamp. I was told that as soon as you use AV as a preamp for the fronts it cuts out speaker outs, both A and B. However when I connect the speakers that way. They seem to run at a higher power. I turned Nak PA 5 of and all sounds flatter. Not sure if I am correct or having false positive experience.
I am doing this to extract as much sound out of Tannoys as I can.
Planning to run Pioneers with a 200 WPC amp. Looking at Yamaha M70 for 300 on Craig's. PA 7 purchase will result in divorce.

01-20-2016, 02:03 PM
I am not a fan of biamping. I like to keep things simple, less to go wrong.

You should consider a used Adcom amp. It will be more reliable and easier to get fixed.

There are some good buys on Adcoms, Rotel and Classe amps on audigon.com right now. There are also a pair of Marantz MA 700 mono block amps.