New Speaker Day: B&W 802 Diamond

[Mike Anderson]

So as I mentioned in the other thread, I've replaced my beloved Magnepan 3.6R's. The new king: B&W 802 Diamonds! B&W is announcing the new 800 series after Labor Day, so I was able to pick up a pristine set of floor models at a nice discount.

I had auditioned these speakers pretty carefully, but I wasn't sure how they'd handle my room, which was always difficult for my Maggies. It's a sizeable room (22' by 20') with 10' ceilings and a half bath that acts as a bass trap. So I knew I was taking a bit of a gamble.

Verdict? These speakers are AWESOME!! I absolutely love 'em! I've heard people use the phrase "emotionally involving" many times in reviews, and I always thought it was a bit of puffery, but I'll be goddamned if these speakers aren't exactly that.

It's something about how they handle the bass: They do it with grace -- it's very tight, and to use another phrase people always use that I never quite bought into: It's "musical".

That's another way of saying that these speakers handle the bass in a way that grooves! I mean, they boogie! If you put on a tune with a good groove, you are absolutely compelled to get up on your feet and rock out with your... smock out.

And the highs aren't harsh at all. I can crank these babies to the sky, and the highs and high-mids still tickle your ears rather than piercing them.

Bottom line: I ****ing love 'em!

BTW, I'm driving them with my Bel Canto REF500M amps, bi-wired. I had read in several places that Class D amps don't work well with B&W's -- don't believe it! I was worried that was going to have to switch out the Bel Cantos with some monstrosity weighing 200 lbs and sucking gobs of juice out of the wall, but NO -- My teeny little Bel Canto's drive these speakers like a pimp on Fifth Avenue!

[blackraven]

Congrats on the new speakers.

[Mr Peabody]

Good deal Mike, glad you found what you were looking for

[Feanor]

Mike, you've certainly given the matter careful consideration.

Did you get a chance to hear the B&W's at home before committing?

For myself, my Maggie 1.6's are a bit imposing in my smaller room and I might look for a more discretely-sized speaker if I were looking today. The Diamonds are 'way out of my price range. I'd be looking for something definitely <$3k, and it's my impression that great choices are more limited than up in the $5k range.

Class D amps are much maligned in some quarters but I think that is a matter of preference on the part of maligners, not an inherent problem with class D though some argue otherwise, (same people who have always argued against solid state in general).

[harley .guy07]

Well I'm glad your Bel Canto's are keeping their pimp hand strong! I looked at Bel Canto's when I was looking at amps but could not beat the deal I got on my Pass. Glad to hear you found your right path

[Mike Anderson]

Did you get a chance to hear the B&W's at home before committing?

No, I just went for it. I knew it was a big risk, but I think I probably could have returned them for credit if they hadn't worked out.

But these things weigh 170 lbs apiece! And my room is up a flight of stairs to boot. I'm sure there's a dealer out there who would have done it for me, but not for what I paid for these.


Class D amps are much maligned in some quarters but I think that is a matter of preference on the part of maligners, not an inherent problem with class D though some argue otherwise, (same people who have always argued against solid state in general).

As nearly as I can tell based on my experience, the nay-saying is completely unjustified. Now, that's based only on the various B&O ICEPower modules I've owned, but still.

There are a lot of vested interests who will have a lot to lose if Class D becomes dominant, so I can see why people talk them down. As for me, I'm sold. I will never own another one of those giant radiator-like, electricity-gorging monsters again!

[Mike Anderson]

BTW, any thoughts on subwoofers?

The speakers can already handle the bass extremely well, but I'm thinking about augmenting them with one or two subwoofers anyway -- just because I'm a total glutton for bass. But I don't want to spend thousands more on a DB1.

So, any advice? Here's what I'm looking for: First, these are for music. I do have them hooked up to my TV, but I don't really care about that. I'm really looking for a musically adept subwoofer.

Second, a lot of subwoofers these days come with built-in software for doing room correction/analysis. I don't need that either. I already have a DEQX HDP-3 unit that I can use to do the room correction, and I can digitally create custom crossovers in any fashion I like.

Third, I now have a spare pair of 1000 watt Class D monoblocks sitting around unused, so I don't really need a powered subwoofer.

So basically (or bassically - ha!), what I really want is just a high-quality speaker and cabinet, although I'll take a powered subwoofer if I have to.

And the 802 Diamonds do bass great down to 35 Hz -- I'm not looking to displace that. I'm really looking for something that can cover the < 40 Hz range with grace and musicality. And ideally, it shouldn't cost more than two or three thousand. Used would be fine.

So, given those parameters, any advice?

I've thought about getting one of these Dayton sub kits (http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/loudspeaker-components/loudspeaker-drivers-by-type/subwoofers/rss460ho-4.html) -- does anyone have any experience with that particular speaker?

[Feanor]

As nearly as I can tell based on y experience, the nay-saying {re. class D} is completely unjustified. Now, that's based only on the various B&O ICEPower modules I've owned, but still.

There are a lot of vested interests who will have a lot to lose if Class D becomes dominant, so I can see why people talk them down. As for me, I'm sold. I will never own another one of those giant radiator-like, electricity-gorging monsters again!

Aye, "giant radiator-like electricity-gorging monsters" indeed. I love the way my Pass X150.5 sounds, but I hate the way it takes 40-60 minutes warm up to sound the way it should -- and I won't leave it on continuously because it consumes 200 watts at idle. If I want to have an impromptu listen for a short while, I usually don't bother: this is when I wish I were still using the Class D Audio SDS-258. (BTW, the SDS-258 took a little time to warm up, but only 10 minutes or so.)

[Feanor]

...
And the 802 Diamonds do bass great down to 35 Hz -- I'm not looking to displace that. I'm really looking for something that can cover the < 40 Hz range with grace and musicality. And ideally, it shouldn't cost more than two or three thousand. Used would be fine.

So, given those parameters, any advice?

I've thought about getting one of these Dayton sub kits (http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/loudspeaker-components/loudspeaker-drivers-by-type/subwoofers/rss460ho-4.html) -- does anyone have any experience with that particular speaker?

There isn't a lot of music below 40 Hz except pipe organ (which can be as low as 16 Hz), so unless you want to provide for movie LFE's, you could just opt to pass on the sub.

On the other hand, if you simply must have the bottom octave, you'll need a sub. The 18" Dayton that you linked to would do the job no doubt. Note that the 18" requires sealed box of 3 cu.ft. Sealed is the way to go with equalization that the DEQX can provide. Dayton apparently can supply a suitable 3 cu.ft. box.

[Mike Anderson]

There isn't a lot of music below 40 Hz except pipe organ (which can be as low as 16 Hz), so unless you want to provide for movie LFE's, you could just opt to pass on the sub.

I listen to a lot of electronic music that makes good use of the 20-40 Hz range.

When I auditioned the 802's, one of the setups had a DB1 sub attached. It definitely added a punch to the music I brought for the audition.

[blackraven]

I would look at Rhythmik sub. They are servo controlled and are musical. They are fast and integrate seamlessly with Maggies so they will be able to keep up with any speaker.
They are bought direct from the manufacturer and would sell for twice what they sell for if sold in store. Read the reviews on them. I have never read a bad one.

They sell for about $800 and up.

The Signature Edition is about $1K and is a beauty. The prices recently went up

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12SE Signature Edition (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE.html)


Martin Logan and REL make very musical subs as well.

These sealed SVS subs are great. I have heard the SB-2000 and its a winner at a great price if you want to by a pair-

Best Sealed Box Subwoofer | Powered Home Theater Subs (http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box)

[Feanor]

I listen to a lot of electronic music that makes good use of the 20-40 Hz range.

When I auditioned the 802's, one of the setups had a DB1 sub attached. It definitely added a punch to the music I brought for the audition.

You got me there: I forgot about electronic. My only excuse is I never listen but no doubt a sub would help.

While I think the Rythmiks are a great suggestion, the Daytons would work well too and will cost you significantly less if you use your current amp.

I use a PBS Subsonic 5 with my MG 1.6QR's. It integrates well; I run the Maggies full range and use the sub's low-pass set at 50 Hz. For equalization I used a Foobar2000 plug-in; this is satisfactory for me since I mostly listen to computer files.

[Mike Anderson]

I would look at Rhythmik sub. They are servo controlled and are musical. They are fast and integrate seamlessly with Maggies so they will be able to keep up with any speaker.
They are bought direct from the manufacturer and would sell for twice what they sell for if sold in store. Read the reviews on them. I have never read a bad one.

They sell for about $800 and up.

The Signature Edition is about $1K and is a beauty. The prices recently went up

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12SE Signature Edition (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE.html)


Martin Logan and REL make very musical subs as well.

These sealed SVS subs are great. I have heard the SB-2000 and its a winner at a great price if you want to by a pair-

Best Sealed Box Subwoofer | Powered Home Theater Subs (http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box)

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for. I know about REL etc., but I hadn't heard of these other manufacturers.

[Mike Anderson]

While I think the Rythmiks are a great suggestion, the Daytons would work well too and will cost you significantly less if you use your current amp.

Yeah, I guess there's no market for unpowered subs apparently, apart from the Daytons.

[Mike Anderson]

Question: Would two of those SB2000's be enough for my room?

Keep in mind, my room is 22'x20' with 10' ceilings -- so 4400 cubic feet. Also, I like to play my music really loud. I'm guessing just one SB2000 isn't going to do the trick, but would two do it?

[TheHills44060]

802's muy bueno!!! Whenever I visit the local audio shop I always make sure to stare at the 802's for a bit. Which color did you get? (sorry if you already stated this)

[Mike Anderson]

802's muy bueno!!! Whenever I visit the local audio shop I always make sure to stare at the 802's for a bit. Which color did you get? (sorry if you already stated this)

I got the Piano Black Gloss. I had a slight preference for the Rosenut, but I got the best deal on this pair compared to the dealers who had Rosenut. Also, my cats are less likely to consider the glossy lacquer to be fodder for claw-sharpening.

[blackraven]

2 of those SB2000 would do the trick. I run a sealed Martin Logan original Dynamo 10" sub with my 1.6's in a 17x17x10 room and it does just fine with 300 watts peak. Those SB2000's have more power and will be punchier and play much deeper than my Dynamo.

Rhythmik also makes a lower cost 12" sealed servo sub that weighs 58lbs that comparable to the SVS sub. It has less power though.

Rythmik L12 - sealed HT sub (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html)

And just to confuse you even more. HSU Research makes excellent subs that people rave about.

Subwoofers Comparison (http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html)

For me personally, I like a sub with a small foot print which points to the SB2000. Otherwise I would get the $900 Rhythmik. My friend has a Rhythmik and it is well built and sounds great.

Any of these subs will do the job though. Happy hunting.

Larry

[Mike Anderson]

Thanks Larry. I think it's down to dual SB2000's, or one of the Rythmiks. I like the idea of this dual driver Rhythmik:

Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer F25 (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F25.html)

However, with the dual SB2000's, I'd be able to split apart the two subs, which will give me a lot more flexibility in location and dealing with any nodes/peaks/resonances that may arise. If it helps me get nice, even bass throughout the room (something I could never get with the Maggies) that would be great.

I wish the SB2000's had XLR inputs and spiked feet. I saw an old comment wherein someone said they got the spiked feet after market -- do you by chance know where to find them?

[blackraven]

Parts Express carries several different spikes-

Dayton Audio DSS4-BC Black Chrome Speaker Spike Set 4 Pcs. (http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dss4-bc-black-chrome-speaker-spike-set-4-pcs--240-715?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla)


You can alway buy 1 Rhythmik and add another later.


The HSU 15" sub is a good deal. You can get 2 of the ULS-15 MK2 onsale for $779 and they have XLR inputs.

Two subs however will give you bass in stereo.

[Mike Anderson]

I ordered the dual SB2000 setup. I'll let you know how I like 'em. Thanks for the help!

[TheHills44060]

Hey Mike post a pic of the 802's in your room if you get the chance! The new 802's don't look half as nice as the version you got.