What new speakers to replace my Magnepans?

[Mike Anderson]

I'm thinking about replacing my Magnepan 3.6R speakers. However, my preamp and amp setup is designed around them. So my question is: If I don't want to replace the rest of my system, what kind of speakers would do the job?

My current setup is as follows: I'm using a DEQX HDP-3 unit for the pre-amp, active crossover, and room correction. This is a very flexible unit, so it shouldn't matter much as far as what type of speakers I get, although it'd be nice to get speakers that can take advantage of it.

More important are the Amps: I'm using four Class D monoblocks. For the mids+tweeters of the 3.6Rs, I'm using a pair of Bel Canto REF500M power amps (500W @ 4 ohms). For the bass panels, I'm using a pair of ICEPower 1000ASP modules (1000W @ 4 ohms).

I'd prefer not to sell/swap out those components. So basically, I'm looking for speakers that would work well with this setup -- in particular, the Class D power amps. (However, I could add another pair of monoblocks to go with a 3-way active crossover, since the DEQX unit has that capability.)

Added info: Total budget for new speakers is under $5000. I have a pretty big room -- about 22' x 20' with 10 foot ceilings, with a bathroom and a couple closets/nooks that tend to act as bass traps.

Musically, I want some BIG and PUNCHY BASS!! I'd love to be able to crank up some LOUD hard rock or electronic dance music and feel the bass punch me in my chest! That's something I've never had with Maggies, and I'm craving it.

So, with those parameters: Any advice?

[Mike Anderson]

I see a pair of used B&W Nautilus 802's in my budget -- Would these work well with my amps?

[blackraven]

The B&W's would be great. I would also consider a pair of Dynaudio towers, PSB T3 or T2's. The PSB Synchrony one's would be great if you can find a used pair as the T series replaced them. The PSB's and Dyn's are a warmer sounding speaker and put out great bass. A friend of mine runs a pair of NuForce Model 9se digital amps with his Synchony's and they sound awesome.

If you are already running a sub with the Maggies or if you are just ready for a change, then skip the message below.

Why don't you add a good sealed sub to the 3.6's. You could even add a pair of subs. I have the 1.6's and run a Martin Logan sub. I run the Maggies full range and set the cross over on the sub at 45Hz. I get the nice punchy bass of a traditional speaker and it integrates seamlessly. You can pick up a sealed servo Rhythmic sub for about $750. I have a friend that runs one with his 1.7's and it sounds awesome.

I have another friend that runs a pair of subs with his 3.7's and they also integrate seamlessly. The trick is to run the Maggies full range and set the sub at the lower frequency limit of the Maggies.

Velodyne and Rel make some subs that have a remote so you can change settings if you want to change the bass according to the music you are playing.

Optimum 12 12" Powered Subwoofer by Velodyne (http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/optimum-12-black.html)

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12 (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html)

[Feanor]

Why don't you add a good sealed sub to the 3.6's. You could even add a pair of subs. I have the 1.6's and run a Martin Logan sub. I run the Maggies full range and set the cross over on the sub at 45Hz. I get the nice punchy bass of a traditional speaker and it integrates seamlessly. You can pick up a sealed servo Rhythmic sub for about $750. I have a friend that runs one with his 1.7's and it sounds awesome.

I have another friend that runs a pair of subs with his 3.7's and they also integrate seamlessly. The trick is to run the Maggies full range and set the sub at the lower frequency limit of the Maggies.
...

Given Mike's active crossover, it would easy for him to run a pair of good subs to effectively REPLACE the Maggies bass by using both low- and high-pass filters at say 100 or even 120 Hz. That would surely deliver all the bass he might crave without stressing the Maggies.

[Mike Anderson]

One of the Maggies has a noise/crackling/static problem. I don't know if it's delamination or something else, but I don't really have the time or wherewithal to take it apart in any case. It will also be a giant pain in the ass to ship it back to the factory. I'm hoping to unload them for cheap and just move on.

[Mike Anderson]

The salesman at my local audiofools shop is hard selling the new Paradigm Prestige 95F speakers, says they're perfect for generating big bass in big rooms. Anyone had any experience with those?

[Mr Peabody]

Class D is usually very neutral so they should work with most any speaker. I would personally want to audition before buying B&W to mate with them as B&W can come off bright with the wrong gear. Dynaudio does do good bass but rare they have more than one set of binding posts.

I haven't heard that model of Paradigm. I have heard several others and although efficient Paradigm do like a bit of power under them to make the bass. If the dealer is pushing them then he shouldn't mind you listening to a pair in your room before buying.

You may want to look at Golden Ear Tritons. The bass is amplified in those models but can allow you to adjust to taste and they do great bass and get glowing reviews.

Revels new F208 in the Performa 3 series are in your price and really have bass, would go best in a larger room.

I'm not sure what model is in the $5k range, Legacy Audio is another good one for you. Legacy still use large drivers and made to bi/tri-amp.

Just curious if you've ever played with any other amps? Most people do use subs with Maggies but I heard a guy driving his 3.7's with a Pass Labs X250.5 amp and I've never heard bass that good from a Maggie. Something to think about as most of the Class D I've heard have had good bass but it was a very clear controlled bass. Some people like more of a rich or blooming bass. If dead set on keeping the Class D, or, not experimenting with other amps I'd go with a sub or amplified speaker like the Golden Ear to allow you some adjusting to taste. Of course, if your Class D have gain controls then ignore the latter statement :)

[Mike Anderson]

I auditioned the Revel F208 and the Paradigm 95F speakers today. I thought the Revels sounded a bit more natural and musical. The 95F's had a bit more bass and a wider soundstage, but they sounded a tad tinny or metallic to me. Both sounded noticeably boxy compared to my Maggies, and neither had the resolution, not surprisingly.

I also checked out some B&W 802 Diamonds -- very, very nice speakers, but obviously in another class price-wise. I think I'm going to look into getting some used 802's.

[Feanor]

I auditioned the Revel F208 and the Paradigm 95F speakers today. I thought the Revels sounded a bit more natural and musical. The 95F's had a bit more bass and a wider soundstage, but they sounded a tad tinny or metallic to me. Both sounded noticeably boxy compared to my Maggies, and neither had the resolution, not surprisingly.

I also checked out some B&W 802 Diamonds -- very, very nice speakers, but obviously in another class price-wise. I think I'm going to look into getting some used 802's.

It's starting to sound like you'll miss the Maggie sound if you go to a "box" speaker. Would it be within you budget to replace your 3.6's with 3.7's and add one or a pair of subwoofers? Or you might even consider 1.7's though they don't have a true ribbon tweeter.

Again, given your active crossover, it would be easy to set a high crossover point, (say 100 Hz), that would ensure that the heavy bass would go to the subs only.

As for class D, I've had a couple of them and they were pretty good, IMO. My most recent was the Class D Audio SDS-258, very neutral and transparent though not forgiving of inherently harsh sounding recordings. The bass was very tight but lean. When I when to my Pass Labs X150.5 I heard bass that was not only precise but also had weight. In fact the Pass is the first amp I've owned that delivers orchestra bass (in particular) that approaches live sound. The Pass has other virtues like great microdynamics (a.k.a. PRaT); it delivers the best percussion sound -- including piano -- that I've had from any previous amp.

[blackraven]

Very true about the Pass amps. I run a Pass X250 with my 1.6's and people that come over are amazed at the bass the Maggies put out. My BAT preamp takes the bass to another level.

Have you thought about Martin Logan speakers? They are a totally different sound than Maggies though.

[harley .guy07]

I am also a very happy Pass Labs owner that did not know what I was missing until I put on of their amps in my system. I would say that if you are noticing right away that dynamic driver speakers are having a boxy sound and you are just auditioning them I will say that this will haunt you the whole time you own them since you are used to a transparent Magnepan sound. There are Enclosure speakers with enclosures that are dampened down to eliminate this boxy sound but they are in a much higher price class.

[Mr Peabody]

What equipment was driving the F208's?

Still might want to see if any Golden Ear in your area/

The closest a box speaker came to sounding more like a panel was Canton to me. They do something that gives the speaker a live in the room presentation.

For the record the F208's do good bass, get great reviews but never made me want to leave my F52's.

[Mike Anderson]

I'd love to hear the F52's, because everyone raves about them, but I don't know anybody nearby who has a pair.