Help me choose my first (used) speakers

[sjtm]

Trying to assemble a relatively low cost but high quality sound system. This is for strictly listening to music in a relatively small music room ( I am still negotiating with my wife for the space). My tastes cover a wide spectrum, but listen mainly to blues ( Bonnamassa, Buddy Guy. Musselwhite), acoustic / instrumental / jazz ( Metheny, Andy McKee), and female vocals (Leela James, Bonnie Raitt). My budget is from $1,000 - $2,000 max for everything - the lower the better as I am currently funding two kids in college.

I have identified some speaker options and plan to try to listen to them all, but no guarantee that they will be powered by the right equipment. So I am hoping that this forum might weigh in on which of these might work best for my needs and whether the price represents good value.

The options are:

Quad 22 L - $600. Right now I think these are my first choice, but not the most efficient speakers if I am reading specs correctly.

NHT 2.5i - $375. My low cost option

B&W 604 S2 - $400

Tekton Lore S - $750

Paradigm Studio 100 v.3 - $1,000 - this is really over my budget, but would stretch if they are far superior to the other options.

PSB Imagine T Towers - $1,000 - same issue as above

Polk Lsi15 Towers - $1,000

B&W 683 - $1000 - I think these are too bass light for what I want

I know this may be a wide range, but hoping for comments by those with direct experience with one or more of the above. I would also appreciate recommendations for an amp / preamp or integrated amp to work with one or more of these. Thanks in advance.

[Feanor]

Welcome to AR Forums, sjtm.

In the budget range that you are considering, speakers are the most important component by far, i.e. if you are going to stretch your budget a little, they are the place to do it.

Others might be better informed than I among the speakers you've listed. My first take would be that the Paradigm Studio 100 V3's are possibly the best, but most of the others are reputable speakers too. As for the Paradigms, they were at one time designated Class 'A' by Stereophile magazine. However they are large speakers that might deliver too much bass for a small room; the same might be true for some of the others.

For deciding, it's always preferable to listen to the speakers in you own listening area. If that isn't possible (which will often be the case of course), then it's next best to compare speakers in similar listening spaces and driven by similar up-stream components.

[blackraven]

I agree with Feanor about the Paradigms being the best of the bunch but for your type of music the PSB's would be great. PSB's have a slightly warmer edge which is great for blues, vocals and acoustic music. I own a pair of PSB B6's and they sound great. PSB typically has a house sound. I listen to similar music and my vote goes for the PSB's.

Read some of the reviews on the Imagine T-s on Audio Advisor-

PSB Imagine T Tower Loudspeaker-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMGT&gclid=CPfr_NDGsMcCFQswaQodEuUA8Q)

The Quads are supposed to be good speakers as well although I have not heard them. Here is a review on them that you should read-

Quad 22L2 review | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-and-av-speakers/quad-22l2-99671/review)

I am surprised that you found the 683's lacking bass. They need good amplification. I have heard them on several occasions and find that they have good bass but they were driven by a Rotel amp.

Picking out speakers is very subjective, just go with what sounds best to you.

[sjtm]

I did listen to a air of B&W 685's and, assuming the sound is similar to the 683, I also felt they lacked bass. I plan to audition the Quads in the next few days. As budget still plays a key role in this (and I think I can get the Quads for $500), I am still leaning towards these based on reviews. But hearing is the real test.

Any thoughts on amp / preamp? My only music source will be a Marantz CD5004 and possibly lossless WMA files from my laptop.
In the spirit of low budget, I have been looking at older NAD and ADCOM equipment.




I agree with Feanor about the Paradigms being the best of the bunch but for your type of music the PSB's would be great. PSB's have a slightly warmer edge which is great for blues, vocals and acoustic music. I own a pair of PSB B6's and they sound great. PSB typically has a house sound. I listen to similar music and my vote goes for the PSB's.

Read some of the reviews on the Imagine T-s on Audio Advisor-

PSB Imagine T Tower Loudspeaker-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMGT&gclid=CPfr_NDGsMcCFQswaQodEuUA8Q)

The Quads are supposed to be good speakers as well although I have not heard them. Here is a review on them that you should read-

Quad 22L2 review | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-and-av-speakers/quad-22l2-99671/review)

I am surprised that you found the 683's lacking bass. They need good amplification. I have heard them on several occasions and find that they have good bass but they were driven by a Rotel amp.

Picking out speakers is very subjective, just go with what sounds best to you.

[blackraven]

The 683's are towers and the 685's are bookshelf's. There is a big difference in the bass and weight of the sound with the 683's.

That Marantz CDP has a nice sound and probably the best at its price point. NAD and older Adcom gear has a nice sound but read the reviews on the particular models you are considering. Each brand had some great models and some not so good. I would also look at Parasound and Marantz gear especially with that Marantz CDP. Marantz gear has good synergy with other Marantz electronics.

Here is a good deal on a high current Marantz integrated amp, it has plenty of power and Marantz usually underrates their power specs. It should be able to drive any of those speakers. It also has preamp out so you can upgrade to a separate power amp if you decide to do so.

MARANTZ PM8005 Stereo Integrated Amplifier | Accessories4less (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marpm8005/marantz-pm8005-stereo-integrated-amplifier/1.html)

I helped a friend put together an all Marantz system with a PM5005 and a 5004 CDP all purchased from the above site, including a Pro Ject Cabon TT. It sounds great, very smooth and musical with a hint of warmth. No harshness what so ever.

To play computer music you will need a DAC. There are some very good budget DAC's available.

[sjtm]

Appreciated the suggestion to pair a Marantz amp with my Marantz cd player. I happened to come across an open box PM7005 integrated amp with built in DAC for $600 and took the plunge. While I was hoping to find good used seperate amp / preamp for this price, much of the equipment was 20-30 years old and I grew concerned may need some repair with continued use (it seems everyone has been pulling their old NAD and ADCOM equipment out of storage recently and listing it on Craigslist). The PM7005 puts out 60Wx2 continuous, has the same heavy duty power supply as the PM8005, and, of course, has the DAC. I bought the CD5004 last week new(store display) for $170, so I am hoping my total system cost will stay under $1,300 including interconnects.

[blackraven]

Nice score. For good inexpensive interconnects check out Blue Jeans Cable -- Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices (http://www.bluejeancables.com)

They make well built IC's and their Belden speaker wire is very good. I use their 10g bare ended speaker wire and terminated them with their banana plugs. I noticed no difference in sound when compared to a pair of $400 speaker cables.

Let us know what speakers you decide to go with.

[Mr Peabody]

The Marantz integrated I'm sure will sound great. Probably not the amp to try to drive the Quads with though. I'm too late but I was going to suggest taking a look at the Cambridge Audio SR-20.

I like the Studios and although fairly efficient they do like some current, I'd only buy if you have a return option.

I don't know price and model by heart but I'd urge you to take a look at Golden Ear speakers who have been getting nothing but raves. They have both passive and some with amplified bass which would take some work off the Marantz and allow you to get the bass to your taste.

I personally would trust old amps over old speakers. Speaker surrounds rot and depending on environment some quicker than others.

You had some good choices on your list. I'm not a big fan of single driver speakers like the Tekton.

[sjtm]

Thanks for the guidance. The more I read up on impedance and sensitivity, the more I realize the Quads are not a great choice. I listened to them tonight - the owner was not present and his wife knew nothing about them. They were not set up, so we pulled the cables from his new Quad ESL's driven by a Quad 99 / 909 preamp / amp setup. At 140 watts, the sound quality was less than spectacular, although the positioning was far from ideal. I still would prefer floorstanders, but will think more carefully about the right pairing with the PM7005. Unfortunately, this unit was just introduced in the last 9 months and there are almost no reviews or forum posts anywhere covering its performance and opinions on what it pairs with well. I guess I am among the first to go this route.

I also have tried to limit my consideration to speakers less than 10 years old. It does limit my options, but I have the same concern as you about age effects.

[Mr Peabody]

I've heard one Quad set up and it was very nice sounding, it was one of those sounds that you might be able to find faults with frequency or whatever but yet it was so nice to listen to. The gear is particular about what it has synergy with from what I understand.

I have a Marantz HT receiver that pushes Revel in-walls for me, it's rated at 50 watts a channel. I think some of the speakers on your list would be fine like the NHT, PSB or B&W. Marantz typically has a full bass, I suspect the Marantz may sound decent with the B&W. I didn't like B&W bass either until I heard them paired with McIntosh, then I couldn't believe it was the same speaker, ARC & Rotel don't seem to do them justice although that's usually what they are paired with.

You might also take a look at Wharfedale which new is a good value, price per performance. Musicdirect carries them and allows an audition. Just keep in mind most speakers require some break in when new out of the box.

[blackraven]

I agree with Mr. P about the Wharfedales. Music direct has great prices on them. They are a lot of bang for the buck. Here are some reviews on them.

http://www.musicdirect.com/c-610-towers.aspx?sortfield=Price&sortdirection=ASC&perpage=24&BrandFilterID=0


Wharfedale Diamond 10 Series 5.1 Speaker System Reviewed (http://hometheaterreview.com/wharfedale-diamond-10-series-51-speaker-system-reviewed/)

[blackraven]

Just another thought on speakers. Elac has a new line of speakers coming out that were designed by Andrew Jones. They were the hit of the Newport Audio show this summer. Paired with high quality gear they astounded people with their sound.

speakers ? Welcome to ELAC Americas (http://elac.us/speakers)

ELAC Speakers Designed By Andrew Jones -- T.H.E. Show Newport 2015 Report (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/THE_Show_Newport_2015/ELAC/)

[sjtm]

I greatly appreciate all the input - it is very helpful. I feel like I am making all the newbie mistakes - did not buy separates; did not buy tons of power; getting enamored with brands before fully understanding how to match the parts of my system to both my tastes and budget.

At the moment I realize I am struggling with straying from the original concept (which may have been flawed from the start). While my circumstances would allow me to spend more, I had started with the premise of "quality at LOW cost". I am only now beginning to understand the compromises this entails.

I have put my faith in one brand at the moment - Marantz. I have no direct experience with the equipment and have gone entirely on its reputation. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised once I have everything together. While the time when I can spend $5k+ for an audiophile system is certainly in my future, now is not that time.

So I have a good quality but modest power 60 watt integrated amp (with built in DAC) and a well thought of CD player. For the moment I have my Sennheiser HD700 headphones ( which I love to listen through despite some internet criticism of these). These HP's are indicative of the sound quality I would like to achieve with two speakers - clear, accurate, fast with great bass reproduction WITHOUT an overwhelming bass emphasis. All this from inexpensive and very efficient speakers.

Perhaps I am starting to go in the wrong direction, but Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers seem they might fit the bill. I know they are "budget" speakers, but many people seem to like their sound. I have focused on the Monitor 7 v4 series, which was a design demarcation for this line - these represent the last generation to use 6.5 drivers for the mid and bass and recommend power of 15-180 watts with a sensitivity of 93db. And they are fairly cheap - less than $350 / pair. Later versions have similar specs but use 5.5' drivers. Not sure how much this matters though.

There are a variety of NHT speakers available in my area, both floorstanders and bookshelf (NHT Classic 3) but they all appear to need much more power to drive them.

I plan to audition a couple of pair of Paradigms this weekend. Of course these are all at least 5-10 year old speakers. Does this pursuit make any sense or am I interpreting the data / specs wrong. BTW - I found a website for PA speaker systems that had some layman's rules of thumb for pairing power and speakers ( I guess DJ's need this approach more than people on Audio Review forums). They recommended amp power should be 1.6x to 2.5x the minimum power handling of the speaker depending on the listening environment. Using this approach, the Paradigms should be driven by an amp with at least 22.5W - 37.5w per channel. Does this rule of thumb make any sense? I am presuming this is based on horn style speaker systems which appear to be very efficient, but the systems are also an order of magnitude larger in every respect.

[sjtm]

The Marantz integrated I'm sure will sound great. Probably not the amp to try to drive the Quads with though. I'm too late but I was going to suggest taking a look at the Cambridge Audio SR-20.

I like the Studios and although fairly efficient they do like some current, I'd only buy if you have a return option.

I don't know price and model by heart but I'd urge you to take a look at Golden Ear speakers who have been getting nothing but raves. They have both passive and some with amplified bass which would take some work off the Marantz and allow you to get the bass to your taste.

I personally would trust old amps over old speakers. Speaker surrounds rot and depending on environment some quicker than others.

You had some good choices on your list. I'm not a big fan of single driver speakers like the Tekton.

The SR-20 looks like it would have been an excellent option. Hope I made a decent choice with the Marantz as it appears to offer far less power thn this.

The Goldenear Triton 7 seems to be their least expensive at $1400 / pair. These do not have powered subwoofers - those are $2,200 / pair. The 7's do seem to get high praise, but I do not think they have caught on in my area as I see none for sale.

[sjtm]

Nice score. For good inexpensive interconnects check out Blue Jeans Cable -- Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices (http://www.bluejeancables.com)

They make well built IC's and their Belden speaker wire is very good. I use their 10g bare ended speaker wire and terminated them with their banana plugs. I noticed no difference in sound when compared to a pair of $400 speaker cables.

Let us know what speakers you decide to go with.

Thanks for this recommendation. I am starting do do my homework on this as well.

[sjtm]

I've heard one Quad set up and it was very nice sounding, it was one of those sounds that you might be able to find faults with frequency or whatever but yet it was so nice to listen to. The gear is particular about what it has synergy with from what I understand.

I have a Marantz HT receiver that pushes Revel in-walls for me, it's rated at 50 watts a channel. I think some of the speakers on your list would be fine like the NHT, PSB or B&W. Marantz typically has a full bass, I suspect the Marantz may sound decent with the B&W. I didn't like B&W bass either until I heard them paired with McIntosh, then I couldn't believe it was the same speaker, ARC & Rotel don't seem to do them justice although that's usually what they are paired with.

You might also take a look at Wharfedale which new is a good value, price per performance. Musicdirect carries them and allows an audition. Just keep in mind most speakers require some break in when new out of the box.

I came upon these Wharfdale 10.7 last night on Music Direct for $799. They are 6 ohm speakers with a sensitivity of 90db. Was not sure how well these would match or what the quality of Wharfdale is.

[sjtm]

One other thought. I was offered a pair of NHT 2.5i speakers plus a Parasound 75w amp from the same seller. He offered the amp for $50. Could I bi-amp this with my Marantz and overcome my power deficit ( these have separate posts for bi-amping)? Would using two different amp brands impact sound / performance positively or negatively?

[blackraven]

That Marantz amp will be fine. It will be able to drive most speakers rated at 4-8 ohms and 87db and above. It has good current behind it. Current is just as important in driving speakers. Those NHT Classic Three's will be easy to drive with the Marantz. I like the sound of the NHT 3's and almost bought a pair. Paradigm makes nice speakers and should be a good match for the Marantz as I have heard that pairing.

I drive a pair of Monitor Audio S1 bookshelf speakers rated at 88dB Sensitivity to loud levels with a cheap Dayton Audio 20wpc digital amp and the sound is astounding. Don't get too caught up in the power game. Going from 60wpc to 75wpc won't gain you much more volume.

Any speaker that you get that is rated with a Sensitivity of 88dB or higher will play at ear bleeding levels for the most part. And once you get to a Sensitivity of 90 or above you can use 10 watts or less. And for the most part, when you play music, you are usually using less than 10 watts until you hit some dynamic parts of the music. There are plenty of so called "Flea" amps (because they put out 1 to 5 watts per channel) that cost a few thousand dollars that people pair with high efficiency speakers and many prefer them to high powered systems.

I also would not worry too much about bass. If your system lacks a little bass you can always add a small sub later. There are plenty of good budget subs or used subs that will do the job.

The only mistake that you made in putting together your system was not picking out your speakers first. Your Marantz gear will give you that smooth pleasing Marantz sound which is forgiving of poorly recorded music. I would have also gone with the PM8005 as it has preamp out puts so that you could use it as a preamp if you wanted to use a stand alone power amp. It also has more power. The PM7005 does not have preamp out put. I do understand about it having a built in DAC but you could have added a good budget DAC later like the AudioQuest Dragon Fly or something similar. Sometimes it is best to buy the best that you can and add other pieces as money allows. I don't think that you will be disappointed with the Marantz sound. You won't get audiophile sound but you will get very good sound.

Wharfedale makes some nice sounding speakers, they are smooth sounding with detail and some warmth. The tower speakers are supposed to put out nice bass although I have not heard the towers, only the 10.2's. But you should really buy speakers that you can hear unless you don't mind shipping them back if you don't like them.

If you can swing it, I would go with the B&W 683's. They will pair well with the Marantz, give you plenty of detail and bass. But give them a listen. Best Buy Magnolia stores carry the 683's and Marantz gear. Bring a long some well recorded music to listen to.

Those PSB's that you mentioned earlier have a great sound as well.

[Mr Peabody]

Wharfedale do have nice bass and MD allows a return if not happy. Auditioning a speaker with your amp and in your room is best. I only heard one Wharfedale tower and it sounded good with a friend's NAD receiver.

[Mr Peabody]

Your approach wasn't flawed. There is nothing wrong with integrated amps, in fact, they are the thing right now with many very expensive models as wellas people like Yamaha coming out with them again. Keeping to a budget helps you decide what to buy cautiously. Marantz is also very respectable in what they offer. Throwing money at audio doesn't mean you will get better or make you happier, you still need to buy wisely.

In my opinion you are on your way to having a nice system. Also, in my opinion, if buying used, you'd be guaranteed happy if you found a set of Dynaudio in your budget.

I think if the Paradigm bass was to your taste you'd like the sound of them. The mids & highs are lively, in a good way.

[sjtm]

Blackraven and Mr Peabody - you are keping me from feeling like I am completely in the dark - thanks. While I am trying to not rush this effort, it seems well priced, quality used speakers go quickly and some I have considered are no longer available. This weekend I am trying to evaluate the current choices:

B&W 683 $900 floor model - may be gone

Paradigm Monitor 7 v6 - $550. This appears to be the last version of the monitor 7 series to use 4 drivers (5.5" Bass / mid). I found a pair of M7 v4 (6.5"mid / bass) for $400 but they appear to be sold.

Paradigm SE3 - new leftovers $900. Hard to find much about these, but very efficient and appear to share some of thedrivers with the Studio line. Marketed as the front speakers for a 5.1 line, but seem intriguing - no chance to demo.

PSB T5 - new - &700. no chance to demo - online retailer. No returns. Seem bass light

B&W DM640 - $150. ancient

Quad 22l - seller offered at $450. still a little concerned that at 89db@6 ohms these might need more power to open up.

[sjtm]

Also considering one more - Focal Chorus 714 -$775. older version but new in box

[Mr Peabody]

This is just my taste but I would lean toward the Focal. I've heard them be slightly bright, not harsh, on some electronics but they can boogie. That's my pick from the lot.

Next would be a toss up between the B&W or Monitor 7's, I'd have to hear them to decide.

I would strongly urge you to pick the models you could get some type of audition of. Listen for balance, you don't want anything really jumping out at you like too strong bass or highs, especially highs as you may find yourself with listening fatigue down the road that will put you on the audio marry-go-round looking for another speaker. I like my speakers to reveal detail but sometimes there has to be a balance between detail and what you enjoy. The thing is while you listen, do you find yourself engaged in the music, being drawn in, like, don't bother me now or I can't wait to see what my next favorite recording sounds like.

Also, keep in mind recordings vary wildly so play a bet of a variety and things you think sound good. Some of those Joe Bonamasa albums sound pretty good, I hope if you are a Blues guy you have some Joe.

[sjtm]

spent the day auditioning speakers, specifically PSB X1T ( seems to be replacement for T5); B&W683; B&W 685; Focal 706; Focal 714. Dealer also had the Wharfedale 10.5 but would not demo it because he did not like them. All of them were driven by a Marantz 80w reciever and source was a Marantz CDP, so I anticipate it will sound similar to my home setup.

Hands down I preferred the Focal 714. Soundstage was great, definition and clarity was excellent. While the 706 could be acused of being too bright, The 714 was very balanced. The X1T was nearly as good, but lacked excitement. The 685 was just like listening to my car audio ( which is very good but still lacks presence) The 683bass response was not nearly as tightly defined as the F714.

I found the prior model 714V at a good discount ($775) so I think this is the way to go. It is a bit more than my used options, but I still have not been able to hear the one real used alternative (Paradigm Monitor 7) and I have no question I like the sound of the Focals.

[Mr Peabody]

Yep, it's hard to put into words but the Focals have an "excitement". Get the 714's, their new and not much more than the used models you looked at. Your amp should sound better than the receiver. Have you received it yet? Plus, I bet the 714 would still have original warranty.

I wonder what his issue with Wharfedale was, but I haven't heard them in a few years. It may just be the Focals and B&W just outclassed them, and a better value for you.

[sjtm]

Yep, it's hard to put into words but the Focals have an "excitement". Get the 714's, their new and not much more than the used models you looked at. Your amp should sound better than the receiver. Have you received it yet? Plus, I bet the 714 would still have original warranty.

I wonder what his issue with Wharfedale was, but I haven't heard them in a few years. It may just be the Focals and B&W just outclassed them, and a better value for you.

The 714V are new leftovers (in the box) - probably no warranty. However, they are $775 ( no tax free shipping vs 714 @ $1,380 including tax. Do you think the 714 are worth the $600 difference?

BTW - how is Sherman?

[Mr Peabody]

I meant the 714v at $775.00. It would be hard to say if the mew model is worth the $600.00 or so difference without direct comparison. I'm inclined to think not. We have a Focal dealer and I've heard a few models but not knowledgeable enough to know about the changes made to various models.

Sherman is well, basically a good lad but can be a challenge at time ;)

[blackraven]

Sheesh, I have never heard the B&W 683's as dull or boring. They are a dynamic and detailed speaker with a great tweeter that some find have too much energy. They do have great air and transparency which you may be mistaking for being dull. They respond well to high end amplification and preamps. Maybe they did not pair well with the amp or music that was playing. I suspect that they were not positioned properly. Here is a good review on the 683 S2's backing me up-
B&W 683 S2 review | What Hi-Fi? (http://www.whathifi.com/bw/683-s2/review)

PSB speakers can be described as laid back. They have a warmth and liquidity about them. The T5's are certainly not lacking bass. They dip down to 38Hz and need proper amplification. It does not sound like PSB's would be a good match for your tastes.

Paradigms might be up your alley as they are a lively sounding speaker.

The Focal's are a good choice and seem to have the sound you are looking for. It is all a personal choice . Check their bass specs, they are rated at 52Hz, make sure you give them a good listen and it is deep enough for your tastes.

It looks like you are putting together a nice system there.

[sjtm]

I meant the 714v at $775.00. It would be hard to say if the mew model is worth the $600.00 or so difference without direct comparison. I'm inclined to think not. We have a Focal dealer and I've heard a few models but not knowledgeable enough to know about the changes made to various models.

Sherman is well, basically a good lad but can be a challenge at time ;)

He always was precocious, but a bit naive.

[sjtm]

Sheesh, I have never heard the B&W 683's as dull or boring. They are a dynamic and detailed speaker with a great tweeter that some find have too much energy. They do have great air and transparency which you may be mistaking for being dull. They respond well to high end amplification and preamps. Maybe they did not pair well with the amp or music that was playing. I suspect that they were not positioned properly.

PSB speakers can be described as laid back. They have a warmth and liquidity about them. The T5's are certainly not lacking bass. They dip down to 38hz and need proper amplification. It does not sound like PSB's would be a good match for your tastes.

Paradigms might be up your alley as they are a lively sounding speaker.

The Focal's are a good choice and seem to have the sound you are looking for. It is all a personal choice .

It looks like you are putting together a nice system there.

Like much of the rest of me, my ears may be past their prime - a little excitement can go a long way. I am feeling ok with my choices at the moment, thanks to everyone's feedback.

[Mr Peabody]

A quick look around, it seems the 714v has slightly larger woofers, like 1 or so cm, people really like them in customer reviews. The 714 has an "improved" tweeter". Both models seem to be well regarded amongst owners. If wanting to stick in a budget I'd say the 714v would be a good deal.

[sjtm]

Just when I thought I had this put to bed, other options have emerged. A dealer in my area has a pair of Focal Chorus 716V speakers in stock, new in the box, that he will sell for $800, just $25 more than the 714v's that I found (also new in box). The 716v have larger drivers (6.5" vs 5"). Design concept is the same(2.5 way), The FR for the 714v is 52-28k , the 716v is 41-28k, sensitivity is 714v@91; 716v @91.5; minimum impedance is 714v@4.1 716V @4.3, minimum recommended wattage is 714v =25w; 716V=40w.

I have a concern that the higher wattage requirements of the 716v may be an issue for my 60w amp, but the tradeoff could be a fuller bass presentation. The dealer actually said the 716v would be easier to drive and have a fuller sound, but the 714v would have more clarity. It has the added benefit of supporting a local retailer (not a big box) but I do not think I can demo them at this price. It is possible they may have the current 716 to demo.

In truth, I have not heard the 714v either, just the current model (714). But the specs are identical, as are the 716 and 716v.

To add another complication, the seller of the used Paradigm Monitor 7 V4 sent me an email that these are still for sale. The price is $500 less than the Focals. While advertised as "mint", they are still at least 10+ years old and I am not sure it is apples to apples to compare to the Focals. They are a two hour drive away and the only motivation would be to hold onto my original intent of "low cost quality". But if the Monitors can compete on sound quality with the Focals, or if the Focal sound is not "$500 better",I will make the drive.

Anyone ever listen to or , better yet, compare one or more of these options

[blackraven]

I would go with the Focal 716's, they will have better bass, deeper and fuller but your room size does come into play. Don't pay any attention to the wattage specs. With a sensitivity of 91.5dB they will play very loud with the high current Marantz.

The Focal 716's sell for almost $1500pr and the Paradigms sold for $700pr. Just on price alone, the Focal's should sound better. I always recommend to buy the best that you are comfortable with. Either speaker should sound good. But just remember that speakers make the most difference in sound.

Good Luck

[sjtm]

Good advice.

[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, the M7's don't look like that great of deal at 10 years old. Half price and still in the box looks like a good deal, and only $25.00 for the next model up, meaning 716v over 714v


Good advice.

[sjtm]

Commitment is a good thing. Especially in the form of a pair of 716v's. The dealer was happy to let me demo them. Initially I liked the sound of the 714's better - actually a little brighter, which was to be expected given the smaller drivers. But after a while the qualities of the 716v's began to emerge. Still great clarity, but a fuller sound that I decided better represented the recording. Are there better speakers? Yes. Are there better $800 speakers? Not in my house!

So I blew through my initial $1,000 budget (ended up at $1,600), but I ended up with all new equipment with full manufacturer's warranties at just a hair over half of the list price and I think a system that will serve me well for many years.

Still will not get to hear it all together until at least the weekend - need to rearrange some things in the room and order some cables. I am going to buy the Blue Jeans cables - just need to figure out lengths.

One quesion - I saw photos online of these and other speakers sitting on what appear to be granite slabs. What is the purpose? Stability or sound attenuation? My room has wall to wall carpet ( tight berber weave) over concrete slab ( basement) so no hardwood floor to consider.

[Mr Peabody]

As long as your speakers have spikes that make contact with the concrete you are fine. I actually have carpet over concrete myself.

Let us know how you like the system. I think you'll be happy.

[blackraven]

Congrats on the great system! Give it time to break in and play around with positioning of the speakers using tape to mark the spots.

Play around with running the Cd player into the amp's analog inputs as well as using the digital out's of the player into the digital input of the amps DAC and see which you prefer. I imaging they will sound the same but there might be slight differences that you prefer.

Please let us know how things progress. You won't be sorry spending the extra money but you would have been sorry in not getting the sound that you wanted.

Best Regards,

Larry

[recoveryone]

Just glancing through the threads, but I hear no talk about the room itself. We all know the room size and make up play a more important role than make and model of any speaker. The right speakers in the right room is what you should be looking for, some speakers may be too much for the room size and not give you that seemless image of left and right. While another may be bass heavy or sound thin, not that they are bad speakers, just not a good fit for that room.

Its really a lot of trial and error and more of what you like to hear from your system.

IMHO

[sjtm]

Well the trial is coming, with my wife as judge, jury and, possibly executioner. But that only is due to not consulting her prior to laying claim to a small outpost in our home for my personal pleasure. Under the circumstances, I will accept any error, if
I survive the trial.

As Vince Lombardi said: “Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.” I am getting there.

[sjtm]

Have not purchased any cables yet, but came across some old speaker wire in the workroom last night. My guess is it is from a roll of Monster speaker wire I bought many years ago. No markings, but I am guessing it is 14awg based on pictures online.

Hooked everything up this am before work - very good , but not great sound. Soundstage is very good. Treble separation breaks down a little bit in busy passages. Bass is present but not in your face still sounded fuller when demoed. I am sure room acoustics and speaker position are playing some part in this, but I hope a lot has to do with speaker break in, as these are right out of the box. I have only listened for about 20 minutes so far. I doubt the cables have much to do with this as the longest run is only 11'.

I read an article that said break in has the most impact on the spiders by developing micro cracks, making them flex more responsively. Focal recommends 20 hours minimum, but some say 100 hours+. I plan to try to run these in over the next two weeks without causing micro cracks to form in my noggin ( or major cracks caused by spousal retaliation).

[blackraven]

Be patient with the speakers. As they break in over the first 25-100 hours things will greatly improve. Your electronics will also break in. Getting some decent interconnects will help with the treble as well. 14g speaker wire is fine but you can always upgrade to a higher quality wire which may or may not help. Blue Jean Belden wire has a good clean sound and you can pick up the unterminated 12g wire for 0.52 cents a foot. I run their 10g for my reference system because of the high current that my Magnepan speakers use.

What interconnects are you using now? The cheap RCA IC's that come with gear seam to smear high frequencies IMHO.

I would play around with speaker position after about 25 hours of break in.

Don't forget that your in store demo had different room acoustics and different electronics.

After the first 100 hours if you still feel the need for bass you can add a sub. There are plenty of good budget or used subs that will do a nice job.

If you and your wife work, leave the system running with the CD player on repeat while you are gone for the day. This will hasten break in. Put on some very dynamic music.

[sjtm]

Be patient with the speakers. As they break in over the first 25-100 hours things will greatly improve. Your electronics will also break in. Getting some decent interconnects will help with the treble as well. 14g speaker wire is fine but you can always upgrade to a higher quality wire which may or may not help. Blue Jean Belden wire has a good clean sound and you can pick up the unterminated 12g wire for 0.52 cents a foot. I run their 10g for my reference system because of the high current that my Magnepan speakers use.

What interconnects are you using now? The cheap RCA IC's that come with gear seam to smear high frequencies IMHO.

I would play around with speaker position after about 25 hours of break in.

Don't forget that your in store demo had different room acoustics and different electronics.

After the first 100 hours if you still feel the need for bass you can add a sub. There are plenty of good budget or used subs that will do a nice job.

If you and your wife work, leave the system running with the CD player on repeat while you are gone for the day. This will hasten break in. Put on some very dynamic music.

My indentured servitude has afforded my wife the luxury of not working for a very long time ( although, based on how my kids are turning out she has definitely put in untold hours on that project). I am patient and will look forward to tinkering with the sound over time. The bass if fine as is, but I anticipate it will fill out more with time.

I am using the patch cord supplied with the cd player. I saw that BJC sells those as well. Based on the very simple wiring I need, I think I will opt to by some of their Belden 12 or 10 awg wire without plugs and just use the bare connections for now.

[blackraven]

Get the BJC LC-1 RCA interconnects for your CD player. They are well made and you will have to pay about $100pr to get a comparable cable. You can't go wrong for $30pr.

Stereo Cables at Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/)

Their digital coax and HDMI cables are great as well. I own a few.

[Mr Peabody]

Your speakers will definitely have a break in period. The voice coils have to loosen up. Unless some break in was done before boxing I doubt 20-25 hours will do much, you'll hear them coming in some after about 100 hours.

I don't remember my Revels having a real long break in but I did play the tuner on a mono station for about a week while at work. I had a set of Dynaudio speakers that took months. I knew what to expect as I auditioned a pair but I think I drove the dealer crazy with questions until they finally began to come around.

[sjtm]

This is just my taste but I would lean toward the Focal. I've heard them be slightly bright, not harsh, on some electronics but they can boogie. That's my pick from the lot.

Next would be a toss up between the B&W or Monitor 7's, I'd have to hear them to decide.

I would strongly urge you to pick the models you could get some type of audition of. Listen for balance, you don't want anything really jumping out at you like too strong bass or highs, especially highs as you may find yourself with listening fatigue down the road that will put you on the audio marry-go-round looking for another speaker. I like my speakers to reveal detail but sometimes there has to be a balance between detail and what you enjoy. The thing is while you listen, do you find yourself engaged in the music, being drawn in, like, don't bother me now or I can't wait to see what my next favorite recording sounds like.

Also, keep in mind recordings vary wildly so play a bet of a variety and things you think sound good. Some of those Joe Bonamasa albums sound pretty good, I hope if you are a Blues guy you have some Joe.

Forgot to mention i am longtime Bonamassa fan. My catalogue is almost complete going all the way back to Bloodlines. While some efforts get limited play others are in regular rotation. Also a fan of kenny Wayne Shephard, Warren Haynes, johnny Winter Buddy Guy, BB , Albert and of course SRV. I have played guitar ( badly) for almost 50 years and had the pleasure of seeing most of the greats perform live when venues were clubs not stadiums. Ihave a lot of room in my heart for most guitarists from John Mayer to Andy McKee.

My biggest problem at the moment is turning off the music. Three 6 hour listening sessions since Thursday.

[blackraven]

I am a Bonamassa fan and have seen him live in a small venue here in Minnesota.

I like Buddy Guy, Junior Wells and BB King. I have seen all three live. I am a fan of Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker.

I love to listen to acoustic guitar on my Maggies from Pat Metheny, Ry Cooder and Billy McLaughlin

[sjtm]

Never seen Bonamossa live- missed him when he came to town last year. If your tastes include Metheny, let me suggest an artist / album you may enjoy - I have been using it to break in my Focals: Antonio Forcione - Ghetto Paradise. I think this is among his most interesting recordings.

[Mr Peabody]

6 hour listening sessions, sounds like you did good with picking your gear.

[sjtm]

I would listen longer, but my wife says it is ant- social behavior.( I don't need no stinkin society). Actually cannot stop digging into decades of cd's that I have not listened to in years. Aja, Brothers in Arms, Chaka Khan, Leo Kotke, Tubular Bells...it is almost as if I am hearing them for the first time. Much fun.

Placed my order for BJC LC1 innerconnects and some 10awg wire. Hopefully will get it by the weekend.

[sjtm]

My brother in law visited last weekend and, of course, I had to show him my new system. He has been in a music desert for many years ( young kids) and immediately went into "I need this" mode. While he was impressed by the sound (it gets better every day), he apparently thought my budget should have been higher, and asked me (in so many words), what would it cost to go to "the next level". A fairly ambiguous question. I explained that I thought my $1,700 had bought a great sounding system for my room size and listening preferences, and that additional incremental expenditures would not make major SQ changes.

He immediately immersed himself in an OCD driven internet pursuit of the "perfect system". Of course, he never got the answer he was looking for.

So, for his sake and mine, let me put it out there to see if anyone can help him in his quest. Given the system I put together (Marantz PM7005 / Marantz CD5004 / Focal v716 speakers / BJC cables), how much more would you have to spend, and for what, to experience a MATERIALLY better SQ. Or could you achieve this goal for the same cost with different equipment selection. Recognize that it would not be fair to assume you can buy a $2,500 piece of equipment for $200. I managed to buy all new with full factory warranty ( clearance / open box items) at about a 45% discount from full retail, so that should stand as a reasonable maximum discount.

I know he plans to pull the trigger on this so any opinions before he leaps would help. I have my own but I benefited greatly from this board's advice, so hoping you can assist him as well. Thanks in advance

[JoeE SP9]

There is no direct linear relationship between what you spend and the resulting sound. The relationship is actually logarithmic. As you go up the scale the more you spend the smaller the differences. IMO/E at much above $10K for an all new two channel system you start seriously running into the problem of diminishing returns for the outlay. Beyond $10K the differences are for the most part very small and/or incremental. This doesn't mean the differences aren't there or can't be heard. It really depends on the listener and what he/she finds important.

[sjtm]

There is no direct linear relationship between what you spend and the resulting sound. The relationship is actually logarithmic. As you go up the scale the more you spend the smaller the differences. IMO/E at much above $10K for an all new two channel system you start seriously running into the problem of diminishing returns for the outlay. Beyond $10K the differences are for the most part very small and/or incremental. This doesn't mean the differences aren't there or can't be heard. It really depends on the listener and what he/she finds important.

$10,000 is highly unlikely to reflect my bro-in-laws pocketbook, but I am curious what you would spend it on.

[Mr Peabody]

It depends on what his budget is and what he is looking for. He could spend around the same and just come up with a different sound. Or he could spend more, anywhere from the Parasound integrated at $2500.00 which has high power, built in DAC and good sound at that level, this piece was selling so well it was back ordered, not sure how it is now. Or, up to Pass Labs integrated depending on which, I think around $5k, then he'd still need a comparable source and speakers. The thing is when you or he asks, everyone has their preference they will recommend. Then Marantz has their Reference gear which I believe they still offer an integrated.

I think you have a nice system, I would need to know what area would he be looking to best? Does he want louder, warmer, more detail etc. He could get your exact components and change things a lot by using a different brand of speakers.

Does he want a turntable, disc player or streaming from computer? Does he want surround sound for movies?

If not able to audition some brands I'd certainly recommend buying with a return option. And, always keep in mind what one person thinks is "best" may not be at all what you or I would call "best" So if not able to audition draw from a lot of sources to form some options then begin to narrow it down. I think you have a bit of experience there :)

[Mr Peabody]

A quick look on Audiogon shows a Pass integrated 30 (30 watts into 8 ohms of pure Class A power, he'd wet himself) or the integrated 150 which is Class A up to I believe the first 10 watts then goes A/B, as you may notice more hear are in agreement that Pass sounds incredible, these werer like $3200 to $3500.00, but used. I'd match that with maybe the Marantz DAC that has the built in tray or the Ayre CD only player around $3500.00, depends a lot on what source material he owns or plans to play. The Clearaudio Concept turntable that comes with cart for $1500.00 is my pick of best bang for the buck or the Marantz Reference table built by Clearaudio for around the same price with cart.

If he likes your Focal he could go up the line, there is a wide open field of options in speakers. I'd personally use better cables with a Pass like Transparent, Wire World or Analysis Plus. Going this route I think would surpass the $10k some, we haven't even mentioned a phono stage, one of the Musical Surroundings would run about $800.00 and up.

He could get the Parasound, buy something entry level to spin the disc and use the built in DAC, I believe a phono stage is built in, this would free up more budget for the other system components. This really is a nice piece that sounds good.

[blackraven]

What is his budget? You can put a great sounding system together for $2000-$3500, especially if you go used. Does he want to go digital with computer based music or does he want to use CD's or Vinyl?

I would certainly consider a stand alone DAC like the Chord 2Qute. I am a firm believer that a good music source (CD Player, DAC, Turntable) and a good pair of speakers is a good place to start. There are plenty of good amps, preamps and integrated amps to fit just about any one's budget.

[JoeE SP9]

$10,000 is highly unlikely to reflect my bro-in-laws pocketbook, but I am curious what you would spend it on.

That's easy to answer. I'd buy pretty much the same sort of gear I already use. That is tube driven electrostatic speakers with dual subwoofers.

[blackraven]

If your Brother in law does not need ear bleeding power, I would consider a Vinni Rossi Lio integrated. I heard this gear at the Chicago audio show this year and it was stellar. It was paired with a pair of Harbeth speakers. It was one of the better sounding and more affordable rooms at the show. It had plenty of dynamics with the inefficient Harbeths.


Vinnie Rossi - LIO Modular Audio System (http://vinnierossi.com/)


Vinnie Rossi (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=46)

[sjtm]

What is his budget? You can put a great sounding system together for $2000-$3500, especially if you go used. Does he want to go digital with computer based music or does he want to use CD's or Vinyl?

I would certainly consider a stand alone DAC like the Chord 2Qute. I am a firm believer that a good music source (CD Player, DAC, Turntable) and a good pair of speakers is a good place to start. There are plenty of good amps, preamps and integrated amps to fit just about any one's budget.

I do not believe he has put very much thought into any criteria, but I can speculate: He is likely to use a digital source (lossless files as he is a bit of a computer freak). Will also likely borrow ( and rarely return) portions of my CD collection. He will be relegated to the basement, although his home is newer with higher ceilings (9') in the basement. wall to wall carpet. His music preference reflects his age ( 80's- 90's retro / alternative / with some classic rock and classical as a minor interest. His roomate after college had some minor success ( Barrance Whitfield and the Savages), so he is in regular rotation.

As far as budget, he is impulsive and unpredictable. His wife is a successfull TV personality and will indulge him to a point, but would probably be apoplectic if he came home with $10K of equipment. While he and I both subscribe to the philosophy that it is better to ask for forgiveness than for permission, this approach has its limits (as demonstrated by the fact he is on his second marraige).

My guess is he would be well advised to stay around $5K plus or minus. Any specific suggestions that get him to "the next level"?

[Mr Peabody]

If he is playing lossless files you really should look at the Parasound integrated, built in DAC, sub output with crossover, plents of power, suggested retail is $2500.00 and half the budget left for a decent set of speakers. Go up the line in Focal. Perhaps something in KEF's R series. If he likes to rock he might even like the Monitor Audio, they have a floorstander around $1k in the Silver series that's supposed to be good for the money, I can't remember the model, Silver 7 maybe. You have to like the music on the crisp side to enjoy monitor Audio. KEF was actually using this integrated to demo their large Blade 2 towers at an audio show.

You can see the Parasound integrated at Audio Advisor website, I don't have a link

[Mr Peabody]

Parasound Halo Integrated Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1PAHAINT)

Here's the Parasound if the link works

[sjtm]

Well October was an interesting month. My brother in law's queries led me to stalk the varios used gear sites. The rusult was I upgraded my entire system at a cost of only $150 over my initial purchases, and sold my original equipment to a friend for $100 less than I paid - so a net $250 additional cost to me. I nded up with the following used but virtually new replacements:

Focal Chorus 816v speakers. Slightly more bass extention than the 716v's they replaced due to a second down firing port. Significantly nicer looking with a substantial metal base. Also appear to be fully broken in - prior owner had them for 9 months and played them about 8 hours / week.

Marantz PM8005 - great integrated, with a little more power but additional flexibility than the PM 7005 it replaced.

Marantz SA 8005 - The C%5004 it replaced sounded awesome, but this player is even better and lets me play the few SACD,s I own. And the player has a USB input.

Love this combination. The Focals continue to impress.

My only question is whether I should look at any further upgrades to my cables / power. I am currently using the BJC interconnects and their 10AWG speaker cable with bare wire connections at both ends. I have a Furman surge protector but no power conditioner. Given this equipment and my relativly frugal budget will wire upgrades make any meaningful sonic improvement.

[Mr Peabody]

I think with the gear you have now you should hear some difference with a cable upgrade. But entry level "high quality" brands will approach $100.00 or so for interconnects and speaker cables depend on length. I find Analysis Plus a good value and Transparent is also good. Transparent has a direct online store now and may allow return if not happy. A+ I find to be revealing but in a natural sounding way. Many Focal dealers seem to sell Nordust with Focal but I'm not very familiar with their stuff.

The BJC are really good, I feel compete beyond their price. When I compared some of their interconnects to a couple entry brands I was able to improve bass or treble extension but the BJC midrange was holding its own.

To sum up, there is better than BJC but you don't need to feel upgrading is a pressing need, just something to maybe experiment with at some point.

Congrats & enjoy the system.

[blackraven]

Keep the speaker cables. Before upgrading IC's, see if you can borrow a pair of higher end IC's and see if you can hear a difference. In my system, most IC's sound the same. Any differences that I have heard have been subtle. Other people's experience have been different. I have heard very significant differences in USB cables however.

Check out the Cable Co. They will loan you cables to try out with a deposit. They are very helpful in picking out cables for your system if you know what you are looking for.

Audiophile & Audio Cable Types available from The Cable Company. (http://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Cables)

[kb0000]

Trying to assemble a relatively low cost but high quality sound system. This is for strictly listening to music in a relatively small music room ( I am still negotiating with my wife for the space). My tastes cover a wide spectrum, but listen mainly to blues ( Bonnamassa, Buddy Guy. Musselwhite), acoustic / instrumental / jazz ( Metheny, Andy McKee), and female vocals (Leela James, Bonnie Raitt). My budget is from $1,000 - $2,000 max for everything - the lower the better as I am currently funding two kids in college.

I have identified some speaker options and plan to try to listen to them all, but no guarantee that they will be powered by the right equipment. So I am hoping that this forum might weigh in on which of these might work best for my needs and whether the price represents good value.

The options are:

Quad 22 L - $600. Right now I think these are my first choice, but not the most efficient speakers if I am reading specs correctly.

NHT 2.5i - $375. My low cost option

B&W 604 S2 - $400

Tekton Lore S - $750

Paradigm Studio 100 v.3 - $1,000 - this is really over my budget, but would stretch if they are far superior to the other options.

PSB Imagine T Towers - $1,000 - same issue as above

Polk Lsi15 Towers - $1,000

B&W 683 - $1000 - I think these are too bass light for what I want

I know this may be a wide range, but hoping for comments by those with direct experience with one or more of the above. I would also appreciate recommendations for an amp / preamp or integrated amp to work with one or more of these. Thanks in advance.

Consider Bose 901 Series VI (used eBay etc) Most earlier 901 series had cone rot problems, finally fixed in Series VI. However, there are two earlier series that are much cheaper that did not have cone rot. Google it.

Electronics: You aren't anywhere near the price point where its worth
worrying about electronics/speaker matching. Forget it. Again, hit eBay etc for good prices on high quality used, old amps. Example: a couple years ago, I picked up a Struss Model C integrated amp for $5 at the thrift store which blew away my McIntosh. I also got a circa 1990 Luxman integrated amp for $15 which easily matched my Mac (Struss is better).
A Tandberg 3000 amp is well worth considering.



Also look at used Crown International amps. Crown is the top maker of commercial amps. They are indestructible & are superb for home use.

Used CD players are problematic because current models are almost always better, for less money. Check out low priced Marantz, Oppo, & Emotive.

[JoeE SP9]

sjtm:
The space and positioning requirements for 901's make using them in a small room extremely difficult. There are any number of smaller bookshelf type speakers that will work much better in small rooms.

IMO auditioning speakers, as you're doing, is the only way to make a buying decision.

Select the speakers first. Then get the power needed to properly drive them.

For any speaker you like that's bass shy, you can always add a powered subwoofer.

[sjtm]

Keep the speaker cables. Before upgrading IC's, see if you can borrow a pair of higher end IC's and see if you can hear a difference. In my system, most IC's sound the same. Any differences that I have heard have been subtle. Other people's experience have been different. I have heard very significant differences in USB cables however.

Check out the Cable Co. They will loan you cables to try out with a deposit. They are very helpful in picking out cables for your system if you know what you are looking for.

Audiophile & Audio Cable Types available from The Cable Company. (http://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Cables)

By your recommendation, I assume you infer that BJC Belden 5000 (10AWG) is sufficient for my needs and an upgrade of the speaker cable is not likely to produce a noticable sonic improvement.

[sjtm]

Consider Bose 901 Series VI (used eBay etc) Most earlier 901 series had cone rot problems, finally fixed in Series VI. However, there are two earlier series that are much cheaper that did not have cone rot. Google it.

Electronics: You aren't anywhere near the price point where its worth
worrying about electronics/speaker matching. Forget it. Again, hit eBay etc for good prices on high quality used, old amps. Example: a couple years ago, I picked up a Struss Model C integrated amp for $5 at the thrift store which blew away my McIntosh. I also got a circa 1990 Luxman integrated amp for $15 which easily matched my Mac (Struss is better).
A Tandberg 3000 amp is well worth considering.



Also look at used Crown International amps. Crown is the top maker of commercial amps. They are indestructible & are superb for home use.

Used CD players are problematic because current models are almost always better, for less money. Check out low priced Marantz, Oppo, & Emotive.

Thanks for your suggestion, but I am settled in now with my system selections: Focal 816V speakers, Marantz PM8005 integrated amp. Marantz SA8004 SACD player. Now focused on relevant accessories that complement / enhance sonic quality.

[blackraven]

Yes. If you don't like the bare ends, blue jeans sells banana plugs and spades that attach easily. I use them.

[sjtm]

I think with the gear you have now you should hear some difference with a cable upgrade. But entry level "high quality" brands will approach $100.00 or so for interconnects and speaker cables depend on length. I find Analysis Plus a good value and Transparent is also good. Transparent has a direct online store now and may allow return if not happy. A+ I find to be revealing but in a natural sounding way. Many Focal dealers seem to sell Nordust with Focal but I'm not very familiar with their stuff.

The BJC are really good, I feel compete beyond their price. When I compared some of their interconnects to a couple entry brands I was able to improve bass or treble extension but the BJC midrange was holding its own.

To sum up, there is better than BJC but you don't need to feel upgrading is a pressing need, just something to maybe experiment with at some point.

Congrats & enjoy the system.

I came across a pair of Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval speaker cables locally. Quite costly even used ($1,000). These are 9AWG silver over copper. Are these what you are referring to?

[blackraven]

I think Mr. P was referring to the Analysis Plus Oval One Interconnects that go for about $90pr.

Save your money. I doubt that you will hear much of a difference if any with the gear that you have. If you have doubts, try and borrow a pair of better IC's. The money would be better spent on a good usb cable if you get into computer music or save for a good external DAC. Just my 2 cents for what ever that is worth. My main system consists of about $25K worth of gear, and speaker cables and power cables have not made a difference, IC's have made very subtle differences occasionally and some have not. USB cables have made major differences. I know that others have had better experience with different IC's.

[sjtm]

I think Mr. P was referring to the Analysis Plus Oval One Interconnects that go for about $90pr.

Save your money. I doubt that you will hear much of a difference if any with the gear that you have. If you have doubts, try and borrow a pair of better IC's. The money would be better spent on a good usb cable if you get into computer music or save for a good external DAC. Just my 2 cents for what ever that is worth. My main system consists of about $25K worth of gear, and speaker cables and power cables have not made a difference, IC's have made very subtle differences occasionally and some have not. USB cables have made major differences. I know that others have had better experience with different IC's.

Well I now have a USB input and a laptop full of lossless files. What USB cable would you recommend?

[blackraven]

What is your budget and what length of cable do you need? Does your system sound warm, neutral or bright?

[frenchmon]

I came across a pair of Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval speaker cables locally. Quite costly even used ($1,000). These are 9AWG silver over copper. Are these what you are referring to?

The Big Silver would most certainly improve your system, but its a silver cable thats directed at much more expensive gear.

I see you have a Marantz PM8005 integrated amp. Marantz SA8004 SACD player and Focal speakers! Thats a very nice system!

I wouldn't go silver cables or interconnects with that gear as it doesn't need silver unless you are not shooting for a neutral sound but a brighter sound. You would do best with a good copper as it will give you a bit more body though out the entire music spectrum. And please know you can hear a difference in cables with your gear. every cable I've added to my systems over the years I have heard a difference. It just depends on synergy. If there is no synergy, you wont hear it, infact it may make it sound bad. Its about the right gear, be it cables, power cords, amps or whatever.

The Analysis Plus Oval Ones would be a great choice at its price point, and its copper. But in your system, I would go up a notch to the Copper Oval-In MICRO Interconnects.
Home Audio | Analysis Plus (http://www.analysis-plus.com/home-audio/)

You will get better resolution with excellent bass and mids...and you will hear better resolution on every note, with cymbals hanging in the air. They are $346 for 1 meter pair. Also that matching speaker cables would be great to compliment the sound. The New Black Oval 12. You can get a 6Ft pair for $218.90 and 8FT pair for $269. Youd be very happy with that set of cables.

Also, please know you can even enhance your listening pleasure by simply getting your amp and CDP off their feet and onto some nice inexpensive isolation devices. Youd be surprised by all the smearing of sound you have, but you never know until you take care of the smearing problems

[sjtm]

Well - after reading countless threads / reviews etc., and stalking all the usual used equipment sites, I managed to secure a nice 12 foot pair of Acoustic Zen Satori speaker cables. There is no question they have made a sonic improvement over the BJC Belden 5000 cables. Hard to describe the difference - slightly less "scratchy" in the treble (if that make any sense). Was it worth $400? Yes for me as it satisfied my curiosity if an upgrade would make a difference. I also am awaiting the delivery of an AZ Super 1 IC that I found for $75 - hope it also contributes to some level of sonic improvement.

I started this pursuit hoping to spend $1,000 on an entire system. I am now bumping up to almost $2,500, but I am elated with the results. I think I have stumbled upon a very happy marraige of components, speakers and , now, cables.

The unintended consequences is an almost addictive tendency to buy more music. Every equipment review has included reference to recordings praised for their audio quality, many of which I had never heard before. These have become the true reward of this little adventure.