Best ~$3000 Amp for HT & Music

[Jayman88]

It's time for an upgrade and I need advice on a new amp solution. I hope you all can help me out.

I am looking for an amp solution that can do very decent quality for stereo music and can also do 7.1. I see two scenarios - a single 7.1 amp, or 2 amps - a higher quality stereo amp and a separate 5.1 amp. I am leaning toward the second option as music quality is important to me.

I will be pairing this with a Marantz AV 8801 and ACI Sapphire XLs (small 2-ways) with an active ACI sub
I listen to music in stereo only
I prefer to keep the same brand for both amps in the second option
I would like to keep it within $3000 total but can go up some for the right solution
I don't need a ton of wattage, but I would say 125-150 RMS @8ohms (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/members/7643576-8ohms.html) with moderate headroom as I may change my speakers soon
I have a preference for clean detailed sound with a hint of warmth in the mids, but will consider all decent options

I have been looking at Anthem, Parasound, and ATI but am really curious to know what specific setups you recommend.

Thank you in advance for your help!

[blackraven]

Consider an Oultaw Audio 7ch amp- Products (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/)

Odyssey Audio Odyssey Audio: Stratos HT-3 multi channel amplifiers. Call us (317) 299 5578. IN, USA. (http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-ht3.html)

Marantz Marantz MM8077 7 Channel Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MAMM8077)


The Marantz and Odyssey will give you the sound that you are looking for. I am not sure about the Outlaw, but they make good products and have been around a long time. Marantz has a house sound that leans on the slightly warmer side with a good midrange. They make high quality gear that is easy to listen too. Odyssey amps have a huge following and from what I have gathered from people that own them is that they have a slightly warmer sound and are very good for music.

Also consider NAD- NAD T 977 7-Channel Power Amplifier -ListenUp (http://listenup.com/shop/electronics/nad-t977.html)

I own a Parasound A21 HALO amp and I gave it to my son. Parasound is any thing but warm. It is more neutral and can sound bright with the wrong preamp and speakers.

[Jayman88]

Thank you for the feedback.

From what I have read Outlaw/ATI/Emotiva are all economical solutions with decent but not very refined sonic signature and lots of headroom for a very reasonable price.

The Marantz MM8077 I looked at but many reviews say while it is an ok amp, it is lacking in detail and not on par with it's competition.

I checked out the Odyssey webpage but didn't see any 5 or 7 channel amps. Did I miss something?

I prefer to go with something a step up from the Outlaw/ATI/Emotiva. My characterization is based on what I have read not what I have heard myself as I have no experience with those amps.

[blackraven]

What you read is true but for $3K for a good 5.1 amp you will be limited. I recommended the Oddysey amps knowing that you would need a 3ch and 2ch amp.

Your second option of a separate amp and 5.1 amp may be the best solution.

Also consider Vincent Audio for a 2ch amp that performs way above its price point. It has the sound that you are looking for. It is a hybrid SS-tube amp.

Vincent Audio SP 331MK Hybrid Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISP331MK)

If you don't mind going used for a 2ch amp, then you can get what you are looking for. I bought my Pass Labs amp used and have never regretted it.

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-ayre-acoustics-v-5xe-evolution-stereo-power-amplifier-pristine-2015-05-10-amplifiers-60110-carpentersville-il

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-conrad-johnson-mf2275-power-amplifier-new-with-full-warranty-2015-05-08-amplifiers-01060-florence-ma

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-mccormack-dna-500-amplifier-2015-05-24-amplifiers-19380-west-chester-pa

Here is a nice review on the McCormack-
6moons audio reviews: McCormack Audio DNA-500 (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/mccormack/dna500.html)

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-pass-labs-aleph-0-mono-s-black-2015-05-05-amplifiers-07068-roseland-nj

All those used amps, especially the CJ will give you a refined non-bright sound, better than just about anything that sells new for $3K. Once you step up in new price to the $5K range, things sound much better.

[Jayman88]

Blackraven, thanks for the feedback. Very helpful.

I am indeed not afraid of buying second hand equipment so I will stay looking at the Audiogon and Ebay to see if something nice pops up.

After doing some further reading, the Parasound A21 or A31 is looking like a decent option. Not sure if you or anyone else reading has any experience with Parasound Halo amps?

I was also thinking of pairing the Parasound with an Anthem PVA 5 amp.

[blackraven]

Jayman, I own a Parasound Halo A21 amp and used it for 5 years. I eventually gave it to my son and upgraded to a Pass amp. If you are looking for warm, then look else where. It also has a bit of grain. It needs to be paired with a warmer preamp and source for music. It is a very good amp with effortless power and excellent bass and control. But it is not even close in sound to my Pass. The A21 does not have the air, transparency, smoothness and bass that the Pass has.

You could do a lot worse than the Parasound.


Larry

[Jayman88]

Hi Larry, good feedback regarding the Parasound, especially as you owned it for many years. I am using digital FLAC for playback and a very neutral pre-amp (regardless of what scenario I choose) so that may not be the best pairing for the Parasound.

The Pass amps look interesting. Which model are you using?
Which pass would you recommend? Focus here being on a 2 or 3 channel option.

[blackraven]

I am using a Pass X250. You can't go wrong with any Pass amp. They unleash a river of current when needed and are very dynamic.

Also, any of those used amps that I listed previously are fantastic.


Here is another excellent amp from BAT, I own one of their preamps-

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-balanced-audio-bat-vk-600-amplifier-2015-05-16-amplifiers-92679-coto-de-caza-ca

[Feanor]

...
If you don't mind going used for a 2ch amp, then you can get what you are looking for. I bought my Pass Labs amp used and have never regretted it.

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-ayre-acoustics-v-5xe-evolution-stereo-power-amplifier-pristine-2015-05-10-amplifiers-60110-carpentersville-il

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-conrad-johnson-mf2275-power-amplifier-new-with-full-warranty-2015-05-08-amplifiers-01060-florence-ma

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-mccormack-dna-500-amplifier-2015-05-24-amplifiers-19380-west-chester-pa

Here is a nice review on the McCormack-
6moons audio reviews: McCormack Audio DNA-500 (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/mccormack/dna500.html)

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-pass-labs-aleph-0-mono-s-black-2015-05-05-amplifiers-07068-roseland-nj

All those used amps, especially the CJ will give you a refined non-bright sound, better than just about anything that sells new for $3K. Once you step up in new price to the $5K range, things sound much better.

Wow, Larry, some great suggestions in the 2ch, second-hand department. I'd love to hear any of these.

Like you, I opted for a used Pass Labs, the X150.5 in my case, and haven't looked back. The things I like best about the X150.5 are a) terrific transparency & 3d imaging, b) brilliant dynamics -- best percussion sound I've heard, including piano, and c) precise, solid bass, the closest I've heard to live in case of orchestral music.

The Ayre, late-model solid state Conrad Johnson, and MacCormack all have the reputation of sounding resolving but warmer, which, given the typical digital recording, is often welcome.

[Mr Peabody]

ATI is one of the best values going in power amps. They have different levels, the 3000 series would give you what you are looking for. An entire upper league from the likes of Emotiva. Same chasis whether 2 or 7 channels, they just add boards. You would need a 20 amp outlet though.

I think this has been discussed before, McCormack is not a warm amp.

Pass did make a 5x150 into 8 ohms but I can't remember the model. I think it would be a decent amp but it isn't on par with the X150.5.

I personally would get a multichannel amp if HT has any importance at all. Using different brands, especially for center and mains can be audible on soundtracks when sound pans.

If mixing amps wouldn't be a problem I highly recommend Merril Audio's Taranis at 2x400 into 8 ohms with a cost of $2500.00. He will allow you to audition. I heard Merrill's monoblocks into some 108dB horn speakers and the ampwas great. In fact, a lot of magazines at Axpona picked the Merrill & Sadurni combo as best of show.

McIntosh would give you the warmth but maybe not all the detail as others in it's price. You might also consider Arcam in the FMJ series which would provide good detail, not warm like Mac but not clinical either, a nice balanced performance.

I can't think of much else off the top I'd consider warm, some of the other Class D amps like Nuforce or Wyred4Sound or even the NAD might be worth a look, although not overly warm either. Other than that it's the beasts like Krell, Bryston or Classe which would give good detail and power but generally not lumped in the warm camp, through halo and McCormack in there too.

[blackraven]

Mr P., every thing that I have researched and read on the the McCormack talks about its slightly warmer sound. I almost bought this amp before I got the Pass.

I do agree with the Nuforce amps. I have a friend that has a pair of Model 9se V3 mono blocks and they are not bright. They have a lot of air, transparency and tight, well controlled, deep bass. They can be had for about $1800-$2200 used, retail $5K.

[Mr Peabody]

I'd be interested in seeing a review saying one is warm, I heard McCormack even with a vintage ARC preamp and it was not warm.

[Feanor]

I'd be interested in seeing a review saying one is warm, I heard McCormack even with a vintage ARC preamp and it was not warm.

This from the McCormack DNA-500 review that Blackraven cited ...


In toto, the DNA-500 sets a new standard for value and performance in solid-state amplifiers. It is beautifully balanced, harmonically sweet and seductively detailed. It is warm yet clear, with the full body and bouquet of a red and the transparency and piquant bite of a fine white wine. It is quick and nimble and offers immense transient impact and immediacy. It deploys its massive reserves of power in a relaxed and inviting manner, balancing delicacy and vigor, suppleness and slam. It doesn't sweat the big gestures nor overlooks the small ones. It allowed me to experience all manner of music on a capacious soundstage with enormous scale and dimensionality and proved utterly revealing and supremely accommodating to all of the gear I matched it with, both upstream and downstream. In short, the McCormack DNA-500 conveys the immediacy, intimacy and aura of recorded music with compelling accuracy, commanding authority, soulful purity and a minimum of muss and fuss. It's easy to listen to and even easier to love.

Of course, warmth, like a lot of other things, is relative.

[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, relative. Also, some brands evolve, for instance, newer Byston would be closer to warm than older versions.

A bit long in the tooth but a good price used, Proceed would be a good option. I'm not sure the exact connection but Proceed was either designed by Mark Levinson or maybe his baby for a while. They had a popular multichannel amp.

I had an ATI hooked to my F52's for a listen, I think I had my CJ preamp at the time, it was a beast with huge bass power and 3D like images that seemed to pop into the room. I just didn't get enough time with it to jump for one. Kessler has a signature 6000 series out now, I'm itching to hear.