Matching Speakers with Components

[Billiam62]

Last Fall my 13 year old Cambridge Audio CD player bit the dust. Have been using an even older Teac in the interim. Just bought a new Yamaha CD S 300 player. The sound of this thing blows away either of the older players by far. Also added the Pangea AC 14 XL power cable to it.

I have noted the sound is now more layered and instruments have even more air around them than before. Detail is great. I know hear notes and sounds I never heard before or could barely hear. The sound is also warmer than before.

I am going to purchase a new pair of speakers in April. I prefer a neutral sound but don't mind a warm midrange or high end. Hate bright sounding speakers.

Should I buy a neutral sounding speaker to insure the sound won't get any warmer at present? Or if I purchase a warm sounding speaker such as the Wharfedale Denton's will it only enhance the warm sound and amplify it? I don't want the sound to be any warmer than it is right now with my Jamo C 601 speakers.

[Hyfi]

What is the amplification? What's your budget?

[Billiam62]

Using a Dayton DTA 120. Best sounding amp I've owned. Very clean. I only listen at low to moderate levels.

Have narrowed down my speaker choices to the Wharfedale Diamond 220 which is a pretty neutral sounding speaker, Wharfedale Denton's 80th Anniversary speaker which is a warm speaker, NHT Superone 2.1 which is a neutral to slightly warm sounding speaker and maybe the Magnapan MMG.

Have to use a speaker that has near wall placement. Precisely why I've picked the above. After extensive research these are the best choices in my price range. May go to $500 to $600 if my tax return will permit it. Otherwise will be staying under $400 for a pair.

[blackraven]

That Dayton amp will not drive the MMG's and will probably fry the amp over time. I own MMG's and 1.6's. I also own a wonderful Dayton DTA-100a amp that drives a pair of Monitor Audio S1's. Be careful with some of the Wharfedale speakers as many have low speaker Sensitivities of 85-87 dB at 4ohm's and it will present a difficult load for the Dayton amp. Same goes for some of the NHT models.

I would consider a pair of Focal 700 series or Monitor Audio BX series if you are worried about warm. Paradigm Mini Monitors would also be a good choice. Personally, I like a slightly warm sounding speaker, it is more forgiving of poorly recorded music and more pleasing to my ears.



Focal Chorus 706V Bookshelf Speakers (Pr) at Music Direct (http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41246-focal-chorus-706v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx)

Monitor Audio Bronze BX 1 2 Way Bookshelf Speakers-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRBBX1)

Also, check out saturdayaudio they have great deals on closeout speakers. These Monitor Audio BX-2's are a good deal and they have very good reviews. They are not warm but neutral sounding and have a Sensitivity of 90dB. They will play loud and not stress that Dayton amp. I bought a pair of MA S1's and PSB B6's from them a few years ago.

Saturday Audio Exchange- Monitor Audio Sales (http://www.saturdayaudio.com/monitor_specials.htm)

[Billiam62]

BR. As always, sound advice. Thanks.

Warm sounding is OK also just not too warm. Slightly warm is going to work fine in the room I will be using. Plaster walls and hardwood floors. Thus, any hint of brightness will likely sound like someone clawing a blackboard with a sharp metal object.

My Jamo Speakers are rated at 6 ohm and 86 db sensitivity. The Dayton drives them just fine. Only need to put the volume at 10 O'Clock to have plenty of sound to keep me happy. Higher and it starts to get pretty loud.

I will check to see what speakers are comparable in that regard.

I seem to recall that for every 3 db increase in audio level, you double the wattage at least where radio watts are concerned. Does this hold true for audio sound levels? Would a 8 ohm speaker at 89 db for example be easier to drive with the Dayton than a 6 ohm at 86 db? The amp seems to be rated at 40 wpc at 8 ohms, 50 wpc at 6 ohms and 60 wpc at 4 ohms.

What do you think the minimum sensitivity for 4 ohms would allow me to use the Dayton?

[Billiam62]

BR. Denton's are 6 ohm at 86 db according to the MD website. Diamond 220's are 8 ohm at 86 db. Could that present a problem at 8 ohm vs. the 6 ohm Denton's?

[Billiam62]

The BX 2 is also a possibility. Looks like What Hi Fi rates it a top speaker in its class. As long as it is not too forward sounding then I will like it. The Jamo Concert series is a bit laid back yet but has great detail in the sound and will still rock enough when necessary. The BX 1 apparently lacks detail and probably won't be what I am looking for at this time.

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't heard the Monitor Audio Bronze but if they are like the Silver or Gold my guess is you will find them bright. Paradigm or Focal not to the same extent but both are really lively. Your Wharfedale would come closer in my opinion. You might take a look at the Cambridge Speakers, I haven't had a chance to hear them but they are supposed to be performing beyond their price. You might also see if any of the Martin Logan Motion get into your price range.

You might also want to look at the Emotiva speakers for price and specs. One of their amplified studio monitors just got a good review in somewhere but I forgot where I saw it, not really interested at the time. With these, and most others bought off the web, you can get a generous listening window with return option.

[Billiam62]

I haven't heard the Monitor Audio Bronze but if they are like the Silver or Gold my guess is you will find them bright. Paradigm or Focal not to the same extent but both are really lively. Your Wharfedale would come closer in my opinion. You might take a look at the Cambridge Speakers, I haven't had a chance to hear them but they are supposed to be performing beyond their price. You might also see if any of the Martin Logan Motion get into your price range.

You might also want to look at the Emotiva speakers for price and specs. One of their amplified studio monitors just got a good review in somewhere but I forgot where I saw it, not really interested at the time. With these, and most others bought off the web, you can get a generous listening window with return option.

Yup, you raise a good point about the MA speakers. I remember reading a while back that the high end can be a bit bright. Just read a couple more reviews that confirmed this. Not a soft dome tweeter and that is the likely reason. Will have to pass on that.

I think the Boston Acoustics A 25 is another good option. After reading glowing reviews from Stereophile, What Hi Fi and many users it appears it will not be that prone to having a bright high end except during some music passages in specific songs. But it is a rarity. And it only needs a few inches off the back wall to work properly. 8 ohms and 89 db sensitivity should easily be driven by the Dayton Amp.

Wharfedale also has the sound I am looking for and should be similar to the Jamo sound. I think the Denton's will work with the Dayton amp but not sure if the new Diamond 220 will which gets great reviews and was recommended by the Music Direct Sales Rep and also one from Wharfedale.

Martin Logan will be out of my price range. No interest in the powered speakers at this time. Prefer a passive speaker.

[Mr Peabody]

Emotiva have passive speakers. I just mentioned the review to show they can make decent gear.

The Martin Logan, Motion series is an affordable line but I'm not sure what price point they start at.

I used to work at a store in the 80's that sold Boston and I liked them back then, several years back I heard some again and was pretty disappointed, thought they were very dull. They may have improved since then though.

Keep in mind much of any of this is general, listener preference and will definitely depend on your room and gear.

[Billiam62]

^^^Agreed. The BA speakers I heard in the 90's while out demoing speakers did not impress me at all. But the latest A series apparently is an excellent speaker and is a complete upgrade from the past models. If Stereophile and What Hi Fi give a speaker a top rating then it is worthy of consideration especially since the A 25 has the precise sound that I am looking for at least based upon every review I've seen.

Will look at the Emotiva line some more too. A couple of their speakers get high marks from Stereophile.

While listening to the Jamo's right now I am sorely disgusted that they will need to be 2 feet off the back wall in the new place to work right. In a small room (where they are located right now) they sound great even at 15 inches off the back wall. But they lose their sound stage completely the 12 by 14 room with 9 foot ceilings which is unfortunately the smaller of the two rooms I can use for my stereo.

I am going to do another test with the new CD player and cable and try them on a different wall in that house to see if that will improve the sound stage when they are a foot off the back wall. I have read that sometimes a new CD player or cable will improve the sound stage and make it wider without changing the speaker. It's a long shot but will give it a try.

[blackraven]

I have the Monitor Audio S1's and they are not bright but rather neutral and sound great with the Dayton amp. I can't speak for the newer MA's though.

Also consider a pair of Boston Acoustic's A26. I recently suggested to a friend that he try a pair of CS26's which is the older model but very similar and it sounds great. The sound leans very slightly on the warmer side. He runs them with a Marantz 5004 CDP and matching integrated amp. The A26 is supposed to have better detail and a smoother more refined sound. They are a great buy for a budget speaker. I had heard the CS26 a few years ago at Best Buy and was impressed but I was astounded at how well they sounded in my friends system.


Boston Acoustics A26 review | Hi-fi speakers | What Hi-Fi? (http://www.whathifi.com/boston-acoustics/a26/review)

[Billiam62]

BR. Excellent suggestion. The A 26 also gets good reviews. The only negative I have seen is that the bass, according to some people can slightly color the lower midrange at times. Have you heard about this? Aside from that I would say that this speaker will also be fine.

[blackraven]

BR. Excellent suggestion. The A 26 also gets good reviews. The only negative I have seen is that the bass, according to some people can slightly color the lower midrange at times. Have you heard about this? Aside from that I would say that this speaker will also be fine.

It's all about system matching and preferences. While I appreciate a more even sounding speaker, sometimes I find them dull or flat. I like a little more midrange bloom, I guess that is why I like tubes as well as my PSB B6 speakers. The BA CS26 speakers have an intoxicating midrange and good bass which many speakers in this price range lack. I suspect the A26 is similar. If you decide to buy them or any speaker, get them from a place that has a good return policy in case you do not like them. Remember any speaker you buy will need 25-50hr's of break in time to sound their best. My MA's sounded like horse hockey for the first 50hrs, then they opened up and sounded great. Same for my Maggies, but they took about 75 hours.

Also, any speaker you buy, especially in the sub $1K range will have its strengths and weaknesses.

[Billiam62]

BR. Sounds like we have similar tastes. Yes, I prefer a balanced sound in a system as well. Precisely why I really like the Jamo speakers. The reviews of the BA speakers say the same thing about the A 25 and A 26. Looks like the CS 26 II is still available in some places.

No question the speakers will need time to break in. I have found that is the case with cables as well and the tubes for the Qinpu A3 hybrid solid state/tube amp that I own.

[Billiam62]

Tax time turned out about the way I expected. Didn't owe anything but not getting anything back. Have decided to buy something that will tide me over for a while until I can save up enough money to get a really good pair of speakers. Just ordered a pair of Jamo 68's off Ebay. Interesting speaker. Should have the signature neutral to slightly warm sound and a high end that won't be bright. It's a 3 way bookshelf with a low end rated to 47 hz. Large size and weight. I am guessing it was the forerunner to the popular C 803 Bookshelf Jamo released a few years ago.

The Jamo 68 is front ported and will be easy to place. And thanks to the size of them I don't think I will have any trouble filling the room with sound. Thanks to the heavy duty stands I own I bet they will sound like towers. Will be trying them out next weekend after they arrive in the house to see how they sound in that room with the high ceiling, hardwood floor and plaster walls.

[Mr Peabody]

Let us know how they sound. I'm not familiar with them but it could work out to be just right.

[Billiam62]

Let us know how they sound. I'm not familiar with them but it could work out to be just right.

Absolutely. BTW. I may be taking a transfer to St. Louis with my existing employer. Should know in a month or two. If so, I'd like to know which area stores have the best selection of good speaker brands.

[Mr Peabody]

Sure, if it looks like moving, hit me on my email link so we can connect.

[Billiam62]

Sure, if it looks like moving, hit me on my email link so we can connect.

Will do. Currently in Indy but can't take it here. Air quality issue alone is enough reason to relocate. Air in St. Louis while not good is not as bad as Indy.

[Mr Peabody]

If it's worse than St.L then it's really really bad. I didn't realize that about Indy


Will do. Currently in Indy but can't take it here. Air quality issue alone is enough reason to relocate. Air in St. Louis while not good is not as bad as Indy.

[blackraven]

I have been to Indy several times. I don't blame you for moving.

[Billiam62]

I have been to Indy several times. I don't blame you for moving.

Yup. My brother is here too. The Twin Cities and essentially all of MN is light years ahead of the Indianapolis metro area.

[Billiam62]

If it's worse than St.L then it's really really bad. I didn't realize that about Indy

It definitely is. Every morning when I wake up I can't hear out of my left ear. Thankfully it clears up after I've been up and around for an hour or two. Can still listen to my stereo. :-) Recently spent an overnight in your area to see if the same problem exists. It did but within a minute or two of being up and around my ear cleared out. Bad but not as bad as Indy.

[Billiam62]

Have listened to the Jamo 68's for a few hours over the last two days. Completely superior to the Jamo C 601's in every conceivable way except for the high end. The 68's are probably a true entry level high end speaker like my Mirage OM 10's. In fact, these could replace the OM 10's as my favorite speaker at this point. That good.

Bass in the 68's is much deeper and less punchy. More realistic than the C 601's. The detail in the 68's is incredible and is superior even to the Castle Conway 3 towers I owned for 15 years. And those were a 2 grand speaker! The 68's don't have the warm lower midrange like the C 601's. Overall a bit more neutral sounding than the C 601's. I am hearing very subtle notes and vocals I've never heard before in songs. In fact I am now hearing Rhythm Guitar riffs in places where I never knew they existed! They are short riffs of a couple of seconds but clearly noticeable now when they were previously not heard. Minute details are actually much clearer than in any speaker I've owned and help fill out the sound stage of many songs.

I'd venture a guess that the 68's would run at least $800 to $1000 if they were sold today. My guess that they were the forerunner to the Jam C 803 is likely an accurate one since the C 800 series is superior to the C 600 series.

[Mr Peabody]

Glad to hear the speakers are working out great.

[Billiam62]

It's hard to believe that a speaker that I paid a mere $100 for can sound like this. Very well balanced, smooth with very clear sound. High end is clean but not bright just like the C 601's. Glad I did not buy the C 603's again. Was thinking about them but the 68's are definitely better.

Now I won't be shopping for new speakers for quite some time. Will be buying a kit to build later this year but after that, I should be set speaker wise, for a few years.