Best ipod performance

[rbaruac]

I have an NAD amplifier and a set of Triangle speakers. Works beautifully with my NAD CD player. But when I connect the ipod to the amp (even after recording the songs in the .wav extension) the quality of the sound is poor. What equipment (amp, speakers, preamp?) do you reccomend in order to have a high quality outcome using an ipod as the source of music? Thanks

[JohnMichael]

I have an NAD amplifier and a set of Triangle speakers. Works beautifully with my NAD CD player. But when I connect the ipod to the amp (even after recording the songs in the .wav extension) the quality of the sound is poor. What equipment (amp, speakers, preamp?) do you reccomend in order to have a high quality outcome using an ipod as the source of music? Thanks


Welcome to AR. I know nothing about iPods since I do not own one. Your NAD equipment and Triangle speakers sound so good together that I think the problem is with the iPod. I have seen iPod docks that are reported to improve the sound. I would not change your system but find something that will help the iPod.

[ForeverAutumn]

I, on the other hand, don't know nearly as much as John when it comes to equipment, but know a little about iPod connections. How are you connecting the iPod to the amp?

Does the amp have a dedicated iPod dock or are you using a cable connection? If a cable, what type of connection...through the headphone jack or a USB/iPod jack connector?

My experience is that connecting to an amp through the iPod headphone jack does not provide sound as good as through a USB/iPod connection.

Also, on your iPod, go into Settings and make sure that the Sound Check is Off. Having it on will compress all your files and they'll sound like crap.

Lastly, you could try playing with the EQ settings on your iPod (also in Settings).

[rbaruac]

Thanks for the feedback. I am using the headphones jack to connect the ipod, I will need to find a dock and try it. Will also play with the settings in the ipod as suggested. I called a specialized store last week and they suggested I buy a preamp (they suggested a Rotel) to improve the conversion of the digital sound into analog, does this sound reasonable? Thanks again.

[filecat13]

Generally with iPods, there are two ways to connect: 1) through the earphone jack, or 2) through the dock connector.

With the earphone jack, you're always getting analog output that's been through the iPod's (pretty cheap) DAC, plus any tweaking you might have done with the iPod's internal EQ settings, etc. Even where you have the iPod's volume set will be reflected in the output signal. This will likely be the lowest quality of sound, even with higher resolution files.

With the dock connector, there are two possibilities. One is just like routing the sound through the earphone jack, and the results will be the same low quality. Most iPod docks take the same analog signal through the dock out to the preamp, so the same (pretty cheap) DAC and any tweaking you've done still come into play.

The second possibility is getting the digital signal out of the iPod, thus avoiding the iPod's internal DAC, the internal EQ, even the volume setting, and sending a digital stream to your own DAC for processing. There are a few iPod docks that can send this digital signal out, but most do not. Not surprisingly, the docks that can do this are more expensive, and they have to have Apple's permission (license) to do this.

I have both set ups. I use nice Belkin and Kensington analog docks to for my iPod in various offices I use, but at home for serious listening, I use an HRT iStreamer (search for it) to extract the digital stream and run it through the iStreamer's built-in DAC. The sound is clearly superior. Wadia, Cambridge, and others make even more expensive iPod docks that will stream the digital content for you, but some don't have a DAC built in, so you have to provide your own. I find the iStreamer to be more than good enough for me.

[noddin0ff]

What filecat13 said, plus another option...

You can also go wireless. You can stream via wifi from the iPod to either Apple's AppleTV ($99) or Airport Express ($99) and pass the digital signal to your own DAC.

Apple TV outputs via HDMI or optical (plus the AppleTV stuff)
Airport Express also outputs digital optical (and can create or extend your wireless network)

Both may be cheaper than a high end dock.

[blackraven]

Most of your problem can be attributed to the fact that your are playing MP3 which sounds like crap through a stereo, especially a nice system as yours. Mp3 leaves out 30% of the information and sounds compressed, flat and lifeless on a good stereo system. You need to down load in wav or Flac files.

[ForeverAutumn]

Most of your problem can be attributed to the fact that your are playing MP3 which sounds like crap through a stereo, especially a nice system as yours. Mp3 leaves out 30% of the information and sounds compressed, flat and lifeless on a good stereo system. You need to down load in wav or Flac files.

His OP says he uses wav and they still sound like crap.

[blackraven]

His OP says he uses wav and they still sound like crap.


Oops! My bad!

[Luvin Da Blues]

His OP says he uses wav and they still sound like crap.

I hope he didn't just convert the Mp3's to .Wav expecting an improvement.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I hope he didn't just convert the Mp3's to .Wav expecting an improvement.

Agreed. One you convert(or encode) a higher resolution signal into a lower resolution, any losses from that conversion are lost permanently. Encoding a lossy signal into a loss less format will not recover data that is already lost - it just presents lossy data bit for bit. That means no coding improvement at all.

[rbaruac]

Thanks to all for your feedback. I am going to purchase the istreamer and see how that works.

[filecat13]

Thanks to all for your feedback. I am going to purchase the istreamer and see how that works.

Good luck. I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

[Unworthy]

If I'm not too late, I didn't see where you identified your NAD amp. I know that new D3020 has a built-in DAC with USB and Bluetooth compatibility, maybe others.

I stream my iPod/iPad/iPhone wirelessly thru an AppleTV and then route the output to a Micromega MyDAC before sending it to my integrated amp. Works cool as hell and sounds pretty good, depending on the source material.

[Mingus]

Apple TV works very well as a streamer......my daughter uses one. For me I bypass the ipod unit and connect the PC which contains itunes (apple lossless) directly to a DAC with a digital cable.

[Unworthy]

@Mingus, I'm set up the same way (the MyDAC has three switchable inputs), but the wireless streaming works so slick that I haven't played anything directly from the laptop in months. Although, I haven't tried streaming any really hi-rez stuff, yet. Been meaning to experiment, but time has just not allowed.

[noddin0ff]

@Mingus, I'm set up the same way (the MyDAC has three switchable inputs), but the wireless streaming works so slick that I haven't played anything directly from the laptop in months. Although, I haven't tried streaming any really hi-rez stuff, yet. Been meaning to experiment, but time has just not allowed.

I believe that the streaming output, and playback in general on the iPod is limited to 48hz 16bit. Could be limited to 44.1 (CD rate) but I think it's 48. So, no hi-rez.

But, streaming in general is much more convenient than having to tether your iPhone or what have you to your system.

[Unworthy]

I don't try to stream Hi-rez from an iDevice. In the past I connected the PC directly to the DAC by USB cable for all of my music playback. With AppleTV, you use what they call Home Sharing. This connects your PC/Mac/NAS/whatever wirelessly to the Apple TV and I can use my iPod Touch or iPad or iPhone simply as a remote. I haven't tried this method to stream Hi-rez material yet, but I think the only limitation would be the speed of my wireless network which streams Netflix HD video without breaking a sweat.

[Mingus]

I also stream from this PC. I have a squeezebox touch connected to a DAC on my other system. The PC (itunes) streams music to this system wirelessly. So the PC is a source to two systems. The sound is very good on these systems....at least as good as a CD. My DACs....DACMagic and GF TubeDAC11 also have switchable inputs.

[noddin0ff]

I don't try to stream Hi-rez from an iDevice. In the past I connected the PC directly to the DAC by USB cable for all of my music playback. With AppleTV, you use what they call Home Sharing. This connects your PC/Mac/NAS/whatever wirelessly to the Apple TV and I can use my iPod Touch or iPad or iPhone simply as a remote. I haven't tried this method to stream Hi-rez material yet, but I think the only limitation would be the speed of my wireless network which streams Netflix HD video without breaking a sweat.

Apple devices (iPad, iPod, AppleTV, AirportExpress) should be limited to 48KB 16bit digital output regardless of path (wires/wireless)

However, the optical output on any of the apple computers (hidden in the headphone jack) all will pass any high res signal if in readable formats e.g. AppleLossless. a $1.00 minjack to toslink adaptor and your set there.

[Unworthy]

I think I still wasn't totally clear. My iDevices are not even in the signal path for the wireless transmission when using the "Home Sharing" function. In my downstairs system (which is strictly 2.0), the wireless path is from the PC to the AppleTV via my home wireless network, the iDevices then serve only as remotes that control the functions of the AppleTV. Using the "Home Sharing" function allows me to access any other device (like my PC or iPad) on my home network for stored files. I then feed the digital coax and optical outputs of the AppleTV to both the TV and my stereo integrated amp via the DAC. My only point was that, if it works for HD video, I think it may work for hi-rez audio. That little AppleTV is a real Swiss army knife for routing signals.

Having said all that, it's rather moot to the OP as he has chosen to go a little different direction.

[noddin0ff]

I think I still wasn't totally clear. My iDevices are not even in the signal path for the wireless transmission when using the "Home Sharing" function. In my downstairs system (which is strictly 2.0), the wireless path is from the PC to the AppleTV via my home wireless network, the iDevices then serve only as remotes that control the functions of the AppleTV. Using the "Home Sharing" function allows me to access any other device (like my PC or iPad) on my home network for stored files. I then feed the digital coax and optical outputs of the AppleTV to both the TV and my stereo integrated amp via the DAC. My only point was that, if it works for HD video, I think it may work for hi-rez audio. That little AppleTV is a real Swiss army knife for routing signals.

Having said all that, it's rather moot to the OP as he has chosen to go a little different direction.

Check the signal that your DAC is actually receiving. Different signal formats are handled differently. Lossless audio as 2-channel PCM, which is how Apple's world shares audio and streams to the AppleTV is downsampled to 48kz 16bit, by the ATV if I'm not mistaken. I don't think the Airport Express even accepts a stream higher than 48/16. What is then relayed to your DAC via any output is no longer higher-rez.

Other signal formats DD5.1 e.g. are handled differently.

I'm not knocking you, your system or your plan. I have the same setup. Just being wonky and, hopefully, informative. If I'm wrong I'd love to know and would appreciate anyone telling me so. Let me know what your DAC says its getting. I'm curious.

[Unworthy]

noddinOff:

No worries, I wasn't taking anything personally I was just, like you, in search of the facts here.

It had not occurred to me that the AppleTV would downsample the signal to the DAC and I can't confirm one way of the other because my cheap little DAC doesn't tell me what it's seeing. It sounds like you understand the general nature of Apple products and I would not be surprised that you're right. I only have a handful of 24/96 files and I think they're all FLAC, which may be another problem. I just need to get around to TRYING it, but I just have not had any serious listening time since before the holidays.

[noddin0ff]

noddinOff:

No worries, I wasn't taking anything personally I was just, like you, in search of the facts here.

It had not occurred to me that the AppleTV would downsample the signal to the DAC and I can't confirm one way of the other because my cheap little DAC doesn't tell me what it's seeing. It sounds like you understand the general nature of Apple products and I would not be surprised that you're right. I only have a handful of 24/96 files and I think they're all FLAC, which may be another problem. I just need to get around to TRYING it, but I just have not had any serious listening time since before the holidays.

Yeah, most my experience is via the Apple ecosystem.

I've long used Max (Max from sbooth.org (http://sbooth.org/Max/)) to convert from one format to another. I've noted that using Max to convert FLAC to Apple Lossless retains the resolution of the FLAC file in the AL file. You can look at the resolution by 'get info' within itunes. So you can take your 24/96 FLAC into iTunes without loss.

However, the playback... Apple and iTunes is a bit opaque on how the playback is handled. To my knowledge there is no "pass through" option for regular 2-channel audio like there is for audio packaged in a video file. Basically, you can adjust some of the digital output specifications from an Apple computer via the 'Audio MIDI Setup' (I haven't updated my OS in a bit, still on 10.6.8) and this will upsample or downsample your signal as you specify. I've confirmed that the digital optical outputs what is specified. WiFi is a different beast.

Audirvana Plus will work with iTunes as a high-res playback interface and will even play and convert DSD and SACD ISO files (if you can obtain them). Again this is via digital optical, not Wifi.

However, I'll admit that I no longer chase the promise of high res files. With my gear, ears and attention I don't (reliably and confidently) hear a difference between 44.1/16 and higher-res versions of the same well mastered material. This is based on largely on infrequently listening to high-res material and downsampled versions of the same data. I still keep the high-res versions, but don't claim they're better to my ears.

[Unworthy]

Cool, even though that last response was at least 2 or 3 steps above my understanding :-) There is a lot I don't know about computers and technical aspects of digital music playback. Also with you about the need for hi-rez files. I really don't desire a system that will fully exploit the capabilities of a 24/96 file and not sure if my ears could discern the difference. I think there's a far greater advantage to be heard in well-recorded/mixed/mastered CDs. Makes me want to buy some new CDs. Never thought I would yearn for the simpler times of the '90s!