Any advice?

[gideonh99]

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I am new to the sound thing so am wondering about something.
Sory if it's silly questions:)

At the moment I have a pair of dali concept 1s run with a NAD 316 BEE.
I love the speakers and amp. The problem is that when I push my Rock up it becomes muddy...

I wanted to know if you think that if I add the behringer cs2310 (or something else) and a sub to the equation would it make things better?

And also how would I connect the xover to the system?

Thanks a whole lot!!!!!!






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[blackraven]

You could be clipping the amp. The speakers sensitivity is 87db and the amp is rated at 40wpc. I have read a user review that states his Dali 1's sound terrible at loud volumes.

[gideonh99]

So you think the amp is to weak for the speakers? ****! The thing is that I can push the amp fine with certain genres but as soon as I play hard rock or metal this happens. So what does that mean? New and bigger amp? What about adding a powered sub and xover?

[blackraven]

A powered sub and Xover would work. Is the hard rock music bass heavy? If so, it may be too much for the small woofer to handle at loud volumes. Those speakers can really benefit from a sub. They have a freq resp of 62hz-22K. So you really are only getting mid bass from the speakers. A good sub will help. Don't go too cheap. Check the used market or look at HSU and SVS subs on line. Martin Logan Dynamo 700 or higher used make excellent musical subs.

Crossing the speakers over at 70-80Hz will give you much better sound.

Of course for the money you spend on a good sub you can buy better speakers for around $450-600.

[gideonh99]

That's what I was thinking too. That the speakers can't handle all the frequencies at once so they distort when I push them. They sound incredible with chilled music. I live in sweden so you can pick up dali's for pretty good prices second hand. I bought my dali's for 1500 kroner about 6 months ago and the guy had them for about a year. So will try and get a dali sub. Do you think the behringer x pro cs 2310 crossover would do the trick? And then how would I connect this?

Thank you so so much for your input!!!

[blackraven]

Your welcome. I am not sure how to hook the behringer up. Others here should be able to help you. That model looks like it uses XLR's instead of RCA's.

[Unworthy]

Bottom line, rock music requires a lot of power to reproduce loud and clear. 40WPC (even from that sweet little NAD)is not that much. Also, I believe the CX2310 only accepts balanced input/output, so it's not an option for you. Adding any active crossover to the NAD is problematic because you would have to connect to only one set of inputs on the NAD. Not a problem if you only listen to one source, but you would have to swap the input leads to the crossover to listen to other sources or provide a separate crossover for each source. Maybe someone makes an outboard preamp with multiple inputs and a sub-out, off the top of my head I can't think of anyone. Scratch that, the NAD doesn't appear to have a power amp-in that bypasses the internal preamp.

What is your music playback source?

D

[gideonh99]

My sources at the moment is a cd player also nad, a radio receiver and the computer... So is this as good as this system will get? How about a sub with a built in cross over?

[gideonh99]

Just as an example this one?
Just click on the pics and you will see the baco of the sub and see what I mean.
Not sure if this will work though...

AKTIV SUBWOOFER - UNIQUI - Fint skick !! på Tradera. Subwoofer | (http://www.tradera.com/item/170303/199272329/aktiv-subwoofer-uniqui-fint-skick-)

[Feanor]

Just as an example this one?
Just click on the pics and you will see the baco of the sub and see what I mean.
Not sure if this will work though...

AKTIV SUBWOOFER - UNIQUI - Fint skick !! på Tradera. Subwoofer | (http://www.tradera.com/item/170303/199272329/aktiv-subwoofer-uniqui-fint-skick-)
You have the concept, but the sub's crossover must provide not only a low-pass filter to driver the sub itself, but also a high-pass filter so only high frequencies will go out through the 'Out to Speaker' connections -- otherwise you are likely to get distortion in your main speakers due to the under-powered 316BEE.

[gideonh99]

**** so the nad is the problem then?
Would it perform better with a Built in crossover sub? The nad I mean seeing as it doesn't have to work so hard with the sub running or what?

[gideonh99]

Thanks a lot for the replies and help!!!
Gonna go throw my stupid NAD off the balcony now :D Just kidding!!!
Will check in again tomorrow for incase there is more posts!!!
Have a good day!

[Unworthy]

I think Feanor has nailed it. The little NAD has you backed into a corner with its limited features and those Dali 1s just aren't made to kick out big bass. I recently bought a Cambridge Audio 651A for my basement system (where the rock happens) mostly for its feature set. Sound-wise it's nothing to shout about, but it has a sub-out for easily adding a powered sub, pre-out if you wanted to add an active crossover to fine tune the pairing of mains to sub, a USB-in which would be perfect for your computer, and its stereo output is 75WPC. Turns out my old JBLs bring enough bass on their own, but if I ever choose to update the speakers, I'm covered in multiple directions.

[Unworthy]

Did a little looking around and it turns out that there are lots of home theater powered subs that take the speaker level input from an amp and pass the stereo signal on to the mains with an adjustable crossover. I have no idea how well they work.

D

[gideonh99]

Do you maybe know of one that might be good for this kind of mission? So I can check the specs... Thank you for your comment!!!!!

[blackraven]

Check out the Velodyne subs. They have both speaker level inputs and outputs which is what you need. Velodyne makes great subs. Some of the B&W subs have speaker level inputs but I don't know if it has speaker level outputs. You need the outputs.


Here are some subs with both speaker level inputs and outputs-

Polk Audio DSW PRO 550wi Powered subwoofer at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DSWP550/Polk-Audio-DSW-PRO-550wi.html?tp=187#details-tab)

Polk Audio DSW PRO 440wi Powered subwoofer at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DSWP440/Polk-Audio-DSW-PRO-440wi.html?tp=187)

Impact 10 Ten inch Powered Subwoofer by Velodyne (http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/impact-10.html)

EQ-Max 8 8" Powered Subwoofer by Velodyne (http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/eq-max-series/eq-max-8.html)

NHT - B-10d - Compact Subwoofer w/DSP-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/NHT-B-10d-Compact-Subwoofer-w_DSP/productinfo/NHTB10D/#.UtB84dJdXnk)


Definitive Technology ProSub 800 (White) Powered subwoofer at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_735PSUB8W/Definitive-Technology-ProSub-800-White.html)

Definitive Technology ProSub 1000 Powered subwoofer at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_735PSUB1KB/Definitive-Technology-ProSub-1000.html)

[gideonh99]

so if i get a sub similar to these it will solve my problem? How will it work? I mean does it work with the existing amp and increases the power?

[gideonh99]

how about these?

sub evidence ace-bass på Tradera. Subwoofer | Högtalare | Hemelektronik (http://www.tradera.com/item/170303/199365418/sub-evidence-ace-bass)

Subwoofer Audio Pro SUB EVIDENCE MKII på Tradera. Subwoofer | Högtalare (http://www.tradera.com/item/170303/199627571/subwoofer-audio-pro-sub-evidence-mkii)

AKTIV SUBWOOFER - UNIQUI - Fint skick !! på Tradera. Subwoofer | (http://www.tradera.com/item/170303/199272329/aktiv-subwoofer-uniqui-fint-skick-)

[gideonh99]

I am super happy!! I got an argon TT-1 v2 From my girlfriend!!! :) Now I need to buy a pre amp too. Does price matter when getting one?

[gideonh99]

Here is another one...

- MIRAGE BPS 100 - bipolär aktiv mosfet subwoofer subbas på Tradera. (http://www.tradera.com/item/170303/199368474/-mirage-bps-100-bipolar-aktiv-mosfet-subwoofer-subbas)

[gideonh99]

I am thinking of the Audio pro SUB evidence MKii. Any feedback?

[blackraven]

Any of those subs would work, buy the best one that you can afford. Congrats on the TT!


I see that there is a Canton sub on one of those links, they are a good speaker company

[gideonh99]

You think audio pro is ok? How does it work with the sub and the amp? Do they work together to create more power or how?

[gideonh99]

Here is a link for the manual of the one i am thinking of getting...
I don't see a Canton?

http://www.audiopro.com/sites/audiopro.com/files/expired_product_folders/SUBEvidence_MkII_IM_115V_%20manual.pdf

[blackraven]

Here is a link to the Canton

Canton Subwoofer , 120 w på Tradera. Subwoofer | Högtalare | (http://www.tradera.com/canton-subwoofer-120-w-auktion_170303_199237386?utm_nooverride=1)

I really can't comment on any of these subs as they are brands that I am not familiar with. Generally the more expensive the sub the better the sound. It would be nice if you could find a sub with a low pass and high pass filter.

The speaker outs from your amp would connect to the speaker inputs of the sub and then your speakers would connect to the speaker outs of the sub.

[gideonh99]

Jaaa I have seen the Canton :) Ooops! I looked at it because I saw the name on this forum before. I just thought that the audio pro was more powerful at 150w. I am also wonering about a pre-amp. Maybe the NAD pp375?

[gideonh99]

Is the Canton not to weak?

[gideonh99]

Also on the MKii manual it says low pass filter and high pass filter? Or do you mean both should be adjustable?

[blackraven]

Also on the MKii manual it says low pass filter and high pass filter? Or do you mean both should be adjustable?

Both should be adjustable if possible. 150 watts is not too weak. It all depends upon your room size.

If you like the Dali Concept speakers, you should skip the sub and get a pair of the Concept 6 speakers which have a speaker Sensitivity of 91db. You could drive these speakers to loud levels with just 10 wpc. You 316 would have no problem driving them to extremely loud levels with out breaking up.

DALI CONCEPT 6 (http://www.dali-speakers.com/en-US/Loudspeakers-1/CONCEPT-6.aspx)

[gideonh99]

Wow!! Cool! How does that work? So I should look for speakers with a high sensitivity?
I do love the dalis sound!!!! Any idea about the pre-amp?

[blackraven]

If you got a preamp you would need a dedicated power amp. I think that you would be better off with more efficient speakers-higher speaker sensitivity of 90 or better.

[gideonh99]

The pre-amp is for the record player I just got. I was wondering if the NAD PP 375 would be an ok buy. So if I can find good speakers with a sensitivity over 90 I should get them and then all will be well?

[blackraven]

what is your budget in US dollars for a phono preamp?

Yes, speakers with a sensitivity rating of 90db or higher would play very loud with a 40wpc amp like the NAD.


Here are a few PP's that are mid to lower priced-

Clearaudio Nano v2 Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Nano-v2-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35447)

Creek OBH-15 MKII Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Creek-OBH-15-MKII-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35448)

Bellari VP-530 USB Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP-530-USB-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35445)

Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-Tube-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35445)

Pro-Ject Tube Box DS (http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Tube-Box-DS?sc=2&category=35467)

Pro-Ject Tube Box S Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Tube-Box-S-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35467)

Cambridge Audio Azur 651P Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Cambridge-Audio-Azur-651P-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=38984)

As with most any thing in audio, as the price goes up so does the quality for the most part. The Clear Audio is a great buy. But you should talk to the store that sells your model TT to see what preamp that they recommend with your gear and phono cartridge

[gideonh99]

About 120 dollars. Thank you for the advice on the speakers I appreciate it!! :)

[blackraven]

You may be able to pick up one of the PP's I listed above for a cheaper price in your part of the world. Certainly Cambridge audio should be cheaper as it is British. Clear Audio is German.

Cambridge Audio Azur 551P Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Cambridge-Audio-Azur-551P-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=38984)

[gideonh99]

They do have cambridge to. It's about 15 dollars cheaper for the cambridge. Here is the website of the place I will buy it from. All is in swedish though ;)

Sökresultat för riaa (http://www.hifiklubben.se/Search/?q=riaa)

Thanks for the help!!

[gideonh99]

I will go for the cambridge then. Thanks a lot sir!! :)

[gideonh99]

I ended up going for the NAD pp2e. Reason being they did not have the cambridges in stock and did not want to wait two weeks for the new batch. I have a new record player to play with damn it ;) So am now sitting listening to pearl jam on my first record player. Pretty damn happy:) Thanks a lot again for all the help and advice!!! I have learnt a ****load!!!!! Next better speakers and MOOOOOOORE RECORDS!!!!! Have a good week!!!

[gideonh99]

Hi HI!!

Would anybody purchase a second hand NAD 319? And how would that go with my DALI concept 2s?