Upgrade options

[madarahr]

I currently have the following:
Magnepan MMG
Jolida JD502P (Power Amp)
Jolida JD 5T (Pre-amp)
Jolida 9A (Phone Stage)

I moved to a new place which has a large living room where I set up the above. I am replacing the MMG with the Magenpan 1.7s. The Jolida JD502P is rated at 60 wpc. Would this be adequate to drive the Magnepan 1.7 ? If so, I am good. If not, I'd be interested to discuss upgrade options for my power amp. I do not wish to of course compromise on the quality of sound that the Jolida JD502P puts out. I want to stay with the tubes and with a budget of +/-$1500.

[Hyfi]

As per the Maggie FAQ, the Jolida should still drive them.

http://www.magnepan.com/faq#power


What is the best amplifier for Magneplanars?

Some individuals assume we won't make product or amplifier recommendations for "political" reasons. Not true. We CAN'T make specific recommendations because WE DON'T KNOW. It is too much work to keep up with changing models and the vast number of products. As it is, our small staff is not getting all of our work done. However, the following guidelines will be helpful. Class A/B amplifier designs that come close to doubling power at 4 ohms have a long and successful track record.

There are 2 features or aspects of a receiver or amplifier that will enhance your music or experience-- High current power supplies (ability to drive 4 ohm loads) and adjustable crossover points in the bass management menu for home-theater.

The most common question is about the amount of recommended power for Magneplanars, but, first, it is important to understand the role of current and the power supply. High current and the capability of the power supply is a good indicator of the QUALITY of the amplifier. The amount of power you will need is a matter of QUANTITY. High current and total power are two separate issues. The ratio of the power at 8 ohms and 4 ohms defines the quality of the sound probably more than any other aspect of the sonic performance. Typically, if the engineers got this right, they probably did a good job in other areas of the design.

The power supply is "what separates the men from the boys." A receiver is very efficient and cost-effective way to get is all in one package, but there are "issues". Unfortunately, consumers want all the "bells and whistles" without understanding the importance of power supply. Many manufacturers offer the "bells and whistles", but, compromise the power supply to be price competitive. There are a few manufacturers that are the exception.

Everyone understands they need plenty of power, but the role of power supply is not understood. There is one important concept you need to understand when shopping for an amplifier or receiver---and it is somewhat like understanding "good" and "bad" cholesterol. The ratio is very important. An Gold Standard for an amplifier would be to double the power at 4 ohms. This concept is important even if you are buying an 8 ohm speaker. If the amplifier is rated at 80 watts at 8 ohms, it should (ideally) produce 160 watts at 4 ohms (or close to it). None of the receivers will do that. However, this is the benchmark of a good amplifier design. A 10 watt amplifier that produces 20 watts at 4 ohms "speaks volumes" about the PHILOSOPHY of the designer. (But, of course, it does not tell you if a 10 watt amplifier is enough for your room.)

A good receiver might produce 30-40% more power at 4 ohms. Most receiver manufacturers don't want to talk about 4 ohm ratings because they have cut the "guts" out of their products to keep the cost down. Some receivers produce the same power at 4 ohms as the 8 ohm ratings. Or they use a switch on the back for 4 ohms to reduce the power and to prevent the receiver from self destructing. Others warn against 4 ohm speakers and will only offer a 6 ohm power rating. Regardless of what speaker you buy, we don't recommend any of these receivers. There are a few manufacturers making receivers with good 4 ohm capability. But, we can't keep up with who's doing what. All you have to remember is to ask-- "What is the 4 ohm power rating?" If the 4 ohm rating isn't available, find another model or brand. It may take some digging to find the 4 ohm rating, but there are a number of receivers on the market that are rated for 4 ohms. For example, the THX rating requires that the amplifier section must be able to drive 4 ohms continuously. Even an inexpensive receiver like the 50 watt NAD C725 BEE (suggested retail of $799) is advertised to be stable with impedances down to 1 ohm and has peak power of 200 watts. So, don't be fooled by pretty front panels. Its what is on the inside that counts.

A new type of amplifier (Class D) has become more popular because it is a "green" design and uses less power plus it is smaller in size compared to conventional amplifier designs. We have heard reports of Class D amplifiers shutting down when driving 4 ohm loads or sound quality that is less-than-desirable. Some, more recent designs are much better. Because we do not have the time to determine which models of Class D designs are compatible with Maggies, we must take a conservative approach. Class A/B designs with high current capability have proven a good choice for many decades.

Adjustable crossover points- If you are shopping for a receiver or processor, you will want a model with adjustable crossover points for "small" speakers in the bass management menu. This is very important to the design of a Magneplanar home-theater system. Adjustable crossover points up to 250 Hz are desirable.

Most ribbon or electrostatic center channel speakers incorporate a dynamic midbass driver since the rather small ribbon or electrostatic elements can not produce midbass. This seems like a mistake to us. The center channel speaker does approximately 60% of the "heavy lifting" for movies. Why compromise with a dynamic woofer?

Magneplanar center channel speakers are also small (relative to our full range models) and cannot produce adequate midbass-- by themselves. Our strategy is to utilize the front left/right Magneplanars (or one of the new Magneplanar Woofers) to produce the center channel midbass/bass. When optimally setup, the illusion is of a big Maggie in the middle. However, it requires one of several solutions for getting center channel midbass/bass. Adjustable crossover points in the bass management menu is one of the easiest solutions. If your receiver or processor only has an 80 Hz crossover point for "small" center channel, there are other options. Please call us and we will be happy to discuss your installation requirements.
How much power do I need?

We are asked this question every single day. We wish that we could be of more help, but individual tastes vary. If someone tells you that you need an amplifier with ___ watts, how can they be so sure if they are not listening with you in your room?

You can get a lot of free advice in the chat rooms on the internet. Most of it is of very little value (or misleading). Often, their power recommendations are influenced by their listening habits and room conditions. If they have a strong opinion of what you need for power, take it with a grain of salt.

Personal tastes are "all over the map". We hear of customers that are perfectly happy with 50 watts and others using 1000 watts. Without the option of listening with you, we have no way to give meaningful advice. The most reliable way to answer this question for your particular needs is by visiting a dealer or arranging to hear a pair of Magneplanars. If you listen to your music at your normal volume, in a room that is approximately the same size as your room, with an amplifier similar to what you plan to use, an accurate power requirement can be determined for your listening habits. This is a lot to ask, but it is the only reliable method of determining the power needs for a specific individual.

There is a persistent impression that the larger Maggies require more power. It is true that most customers with the more expensive models have more powerful amplifiers. But, the popular assumption is not correct. They typically have a larger budget. If and when you upgrade your electronics is a separate decision.

[blackraven]

I have a pair of 1.6's and I can tell you that it all depends upon how loud you listen to music. More power makes the Maggies sound more dynamic. The other thing that a good powerful amp brings to the table with Maggies is better sound at low volumes. Not all amps will do this. My Parasound A21 sounded good a low volumes but my Pass X250 is crazy good at low volumes, the music is more dynamic and open. I would give strong consideration to this Vincent Audio Hybrid Tube-SS power amp if you want to stay with tubes, it is on sale and a great buy at this price with a 30 day money back guaranty. You could pair this with a Tube preamp. i use to run my 1.6's with a SS amp and hybrid tub preamp and hybrid tube DAC.


However, if your Jolida was powering the MMG's without any issues, then it should be fine with the 1.7's.

Vincent Audio - SP-331 Hybrid Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/Vincent-Audio-SP-331-Hybrid-Power-Amplifier/productinfo/VISP331/#.UsWPiNJDvnk)

[Feanor]

I currently have the following:
Magnepan MMG
Jolida JD502P (Power Amp)
Jolida JD 5T (Pre-amp)
Jolida 9A (Phone Stage)

I moved to a new place which has a large living room where I set up the above. I am replacing the MMG with the Magenpan 1.7s. The Jolida JD502P is rated at 60 wpc. Would this be adequate to drive the Magnepan 1.7 ? If so, I am good. If not, I'd be interested to discuss upgrade options for my power amp. I do not wish to of course compromise on the quality of sound that the Jolida JD502P puts out. I want to stay with the tubes and with a budget of +/-$1500.
In LARGE living room the 60 wpc Jolida you will probably find underpowered. If you want to stay with tubes then, OK, there are obvious logical options: (1) replace both your current preamp and power amp with separate tube components -- but this will strain your budget severely; (2) replace you preamp and power amp with an integrated tube amp but it will need to be 100+ wpc, (3) keep your current preamp and replace your power amp with another tube power amp, or (4) keep your tube preamp but replace your power amp with a solid state power amp.

As for option (3), many people attest that this a very satisfactory substitute for an all-tube setup.

If your are willing to take a small risk you should consider buying used equipment for the best bang for your buck. The long-time go-to site for use audiophile equipment is AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://www.audiogon.com).

[madarahr]

The Jolida 502 was perfect with the MMG. I am hoping that for 4 Ohms, the 1.7 can be accomplished. I just wanted to have something in the back pocket, in case it does not. My listening volume is usually not loud but never want to be in a situation that I am restricted to the volume if I have relatives or friends who may help themselves to playing something louder than I normally do.

[madarahr]

In LARGE living room the 60 wpc Jolida you will probably find underpowered. If you want to stay with tubes then, OK, there are obvious logical options: (1) replace both your current preamp and power amp with separate tube components -- but this will strain your budget severely; (2) replace you preamp and power amp with an integrated tube amp but it will need to be 100+ wpc, (3) keep your current preamp and replace your power amp with another tube power amp, or (4) keep your tube preamp but replace your power amp with a solid state power amp.

As for option (3), many people attest that this a very satisfactory substitute for an all-tube setup.

If your are willing to take a small risk you should consider buying used equipment for the best bang for your buck. The long-time go-to site for use audiophile equipment is AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://www.audiogon.com).

I am leaning towards option 3 if I may have to. In this case, which tube amp is capable of singing with my budget. The JD 502's were awesome. I have not heard the JD 1000 but I have been told that they are nowhere near in comparison to the JD 302 or 502 in terms of quality.

[blackraven]

You are not going to find a high powered tube amp on that budget. I would give strong consideration to the Vincent that I mentioned. It has the tube midrange and warmth but the bass of a SS amp. Paired with your Tubed preamp, you should not miss a beat.

[Feanor]

You are not going to find a high powered tube amp on that budget. I would give strong consideration to the Vincent that I mentioned. It has the tube midrange and warmth but the bass of a SS amp. Paired with your Tubed preamp, you should not miss a beat.
Opps! So what I actually meant was tosay was a lot of people like option (4) not (3), i.e. they are very content with with a tube preamp and a solid state power amp or hybrid amp like the Vincent that blackraven mentioned.

Also as blackraven mentions, it will be tough to find a good, new 100+ wpc tube amp within your budget; used is possible but the choice is limited. Meanwhile used, tube-like solid state options in your range a fairly numerous; here are three from Conrad Johnson and Balanced Audio Technologies respectively, all of which are tubish in characteristics:

Conrad Johnson MF2250A Amplifier | Solid state | San Jose, California 95131 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-conrad-johnson-mf2250a-amplifier-2013-12-21-amplifiers-95131-san-jose-ca)

BAT Balanced Audio Technology VK-200 w/Factory Upgrades | Solid state | Charlotte, North Carolina 28277 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-bat-balanced-audio-technology-vk-200-w-factory-upgrades-2013-12-28-amplifiers-28277-charlotte-nc)

[madarahr]

Here is something that I found "http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?151900-Jolida-JD502P". He had Jolida 502P monoblock'ed. Interesting equipment.