Been gone too long, need help with AVR.

[topspeed]

Don't know if any of my cronies are still populating the joint, but I sure could use some help.

Just moved to a new place and decided to upgrade my 10 yr old Denon. Here's the rub, I've been away from audio for so long I have no idea who is making what and what features I should be looking for. My first stop was the Denon website as I've always been partial to their warmer sound and use of excellent DAC's. However, with all of the changes in the industry, I have no idea if they are the same company with the same priorities that I knew and loved 10 years ago. Do they still have the same sound? Are the DAC's they use still aimed at the serious listener? Is the quality still there?

Unfortunately, I simply have neither the time nor the resources (I don't have a real audio shop within a 3 hours drive) to audition gear so I'm going off of your trusted recommendations. The speakers are B&W CDMNT's all around, which are 8ohm, 90db/1/1. Fairly easy to drive but are happier with lots of current. The mains are driven off a PS Audio HCA2, so the AVR will only be driving 3 channels. The room they are in is quite large: 22'x40' with 30' ceilings. I'll have at least 4 hdmi inputs and have no idea if networking is important as I've never done it. You tell me if it's a good idea. I'd like to future proof it as much as possible if only because I obviously don't buy gear very often.

My first choices would be Denon, Marantz (which I understand is the same company?), and Yamaha, but I'm certainly open to suggestions. Price point is ~$1k and used gear is just fine.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Speedy

[harley .guy07]

They are both owned by D&M holdings but I don't think they share any parts or anything but I could be wrong. I believe they are still separate entities but report to the same owning company.

If I was to get a new receiver right now I really think I would lean towards Marantz. I have more time with Yamaha since i used to manage a shop in the 90's that sold Yamaha and Denon but I like the newer marantz due to their elegant simplicity and the fact that they seem to have a sound character that a lot of people love over other brands out there but this is my opinion and what you think are important in a receiver are different from mine.

[blackraven]

Go with Marantz if you like a warmer sound. I like their gear and would love to have some of their reference gear. If you need high power, then you are going to pay out the nose for Marantz.

[JohnMichael]

No advice here but welcome back!

[Mr Peabody]

Hi Speedy, good to see you.

To answer your original question Denon is pretty much the same today as when you bought your receiver. Marantz is also a good choice and IMO a bit warmer sound than the Denon. However, it seems Denon and B&W go hand in hand. Another good choice is Yamaha if you listen to music through the receiver. For actual high current you may have to investigate something like HK or Onkyo. Depending on your learning curve some like to keep with the same brand as to not have to deal with learning a new receiver's functionality. Onkyo has been having some quirks lately with some receivers and processors, they came on strong in the HT market and I'm sure they are working to get things ironed out.

Features depend on what you plan to use the receiver for.
* Will you eventually go to 3D viewing?
* Are you interested in streaming from internet?
* How many HDMI inputs will you need? Any older connections needed?
* How many channels do you have or will potentially use?
* Multiroom functions needed?
* Universal remote?

I'm sure I missed a few, all receivers have auto speaker set up with microphone. I'd plan for the future and get a 4k compatible, I think most are today.

[topspeed]

Features depend on what you plan to use the receiver for.
* Will you eventually go to 3D viewing?
* Are you interested in streaming from internet?
* How many HDMI inputs will you need? Any older connections needed?
* How many channels do you have or will potentially use?
* Multiroom functions needed?
* Universal remote?

Allow me to answer in order:
* My Set is 3D, although I never watch it that way. I guess it's important to have that capability if only because the set will play it
* The Sammy is a smart TV and the PS3/PS4 also stream from the net. You tell me if an AVR with a net connection is important. I'm a self professed idiot when it comes to tech stuff, but it would be nice to put all of my cd's on a hard drive and access them with the main system without resorting to a Sonos like system.
* At least 4 hdmi's for vid. The SACD will still need to hook up with 6 pairs of RCA's (unless you can transfer the signal via hdmi with the same fidelity).
* On this rig, it's 5.1 only with the two mains powered by a separate amp.
* No, I'll use my old avr for that.
* Logitech One

It sounds like Denon is still Denon, which is good to hear. I have two that are over 10 years old and work brilliantly. If not for the lack of HDMI's, I would happily keep one in the main system. Now, it will pull duty in another room that already had built-in speakers. I noticed they switched from Burr Brown DAC's to Analog Devices' ADV 8003. I'm unfamiliar with Analog Devices, opinions on sound would be much appreciated.

A quick glance on the web brought 3 AVR's to mind;
Denon 3313CI (out of production now, but can still be found)
Denon X3000 (the replacement for the 3313ci)
Marantz SR5008 or 6008 (The specs say the 5508 isn't SACD compatible? It has 7.1 pre-outs, so I don't know why it wouldn't be? Maybe I'm missing something)

Thanks again for all of your help and advice. I need to purchase this thing as soon as possible as the wiring is being done as I type this, so recommendations for stores/sites is also welcomed.

Speedy

It's great to see so many helpful people are still here. I actually converse with Doc Greene on Facebook, for those that remember him.

[Mr Peabody]

If you use the MC analog out of your SACD the decoding is done in the player, if it is transferred via HDMI the receiver would decode. The receiver would have to be able to accept DSD and you'd have to experiment to see which sounds better if the receiver offers MC analog input.

For future proof the X3000 has 4k video and legacy upsampling, the 3313 is not 4k. Sometimes there are so many features where you look hit the highlights, for some reason neither say 3D that I saw. The 3313 looks to have slightly more power but both amp sections look to be good. Both have Apple airplay and will do some streaming with an ethernet connection or one of those dangle things. Both allow remote control via a tablet or phone with the ap. I'm not up on all the streaming ins & outs. Both mention circuits to enhance mp3 playback.

The Marantz research took me to an awesome write up that will answer a lot of your questions, including the differences between Marantz & Denon, it's too much info to bring over so here's the link: Marantz SR5008, SR6008, and SR7008 Receivers Preview | Audioholics (http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr5008-sr6008-sr7008)

[topspeed]

Thanks, MR P! That link was a terrific help and the pictures really illustrated the differences under the hood. I've been a loyal Denon guy for 30 years, but I think I'm going to try Marantz this time around.

I'm deciding between the SR5008 and SR6008, with the only differences between the two being the latter has slightly more power (10wpc, yippee!), zone 2 hdmi out, digital input for SACD, and a phono stage. Of these features, the only one that intrigues me is the phono stage. I've been itching for a turntable and it would be nice to just jump in without having to purchase a separate phono amp and stage later. The question is whether it's worth the extra $200? Thoughts?

[blackraven]

Save the $200 and use it to buy a used dedicated phono preamp or a new Bellari VP130 for $275

Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-Tube-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35445)

[topspeed]

Save the $200 and use it to buy a used dedicated phono preamp or a new Bellari VP130 for $275

Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-Tube-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35445)Nice! Thanks for the heads up!

[Mr Peabody]

It's convenient to have the phono built in but external gives you more choice. The acceptance of a digital SACD input would give you the option of choosing which DAC you like better, the receiver internal or your existing player's DAC. The Creek phono stages are hard to beat for the money, both Frenchmon and myself have had good luck with them. In addition, just my guess, depending on where you start with a turntable I'd suspect it wouldn't take much to surpass the internal phono stage's ability.

Marantz Reference offers a table built by Clear Audio and comes with cart for around $1500.00. Down from there I'd look at the Rega P3, I believe it is about $895.00 but may not have cart. Below that I understand Pro-ject pretty much dominates the entry level area. I have been looking some, thinking of a possible upgrade some day and I have found there are a lot of options on turntables and it seems opinions vary in that area probably more than any component I've shopped for. Well Tempered Labs is the most consistently positive I've found but they aren't cheap and a bit unique :). A lot will depend on if you have prior experience, and, if not, are you mechanically inclined and self taught, I say that because you mentioned being in the middle of no where, if you can't find a receiver, I suppose a turntable guru would be out of the question :). There's DVD's you can buy from the likes of Michael Fremer, YouTube videos amongst other sources though.

I thought you might gravitate to Marantz when I saw they kept the MC analog inputs and went more toward a "audiophile" buyer. Before you were asking about places to buy, if you think you might need support look at places like Crutchfield or Audio Advisor, if support isn't a big deal I'd check Amazon. Don't just buy from any place online, they have to be listed as authorized or your warranty isn't honored.

[topspeed]

Thanks for all of your help, guys! I've decided to go with the SR5008. It seems as future proof as I can get without going mental on the price. Now if I can just find a 6 shelf tower rack that isn't metal (very low WAF) and doesn't cost as much as a small car!

[dean_martin]

Thanks for all of your help, guys! I've decided to go with the SR5008. It seems as future proof as I can get without going mental on the price. Now if I can just find a 6 shelf tower rack that isn't metal (very low WAF) and doesn't cost as much as a small car!
Hey, dude! Good to see you. Let us know what you think about the Marantz. I have one of their blu-ray players in a 2ch bedroom system. The sound quality through its analog outputs is to my liking - full with a warmish glow, but articulate.

[blackraven]

No here is a TT that you may want to wait for-

Party in the Music Hall room | Stereophile.com (http://www.stereophile.com/content/party-music-hall-room)

[Mr Peabody]

Did you see what brand of phono stage he was using? That's cool Roy can show off nice gear at a modest price.

[topspeed]

Well, the cow hide platter will definitely fit in with where I live. A dairy is literally walking distance from my neighborhood. When visitors ask, "What's that smell?", locals will often say, "That's the smell of money, son!" Honestly, I don't know where they keep their money, but it's not the same place I keep mine.

I actually like Music Hall. I was thinking of a MMF2.2 or Rega P1 as a nice starter table. I just saw the new Pro-Ject Carbon on NeedleDoctor, and that looks interesting as well. I've got a ton of dough rolling out right now on this AVR, new furniture, etc., so it's going to be awhile.

The guy at Crutchfield was going bonkers for the new Yammie Aventage with their new ESS SABRE dac's. These are the same dac's Wadia and a few other hi-end companies use, so that caught my attention. Any opinions?

@Dino: What's up my friend? I'll gladly post impressions once I've got it up and running. The listening room is going to be a challenge: tons of windows that scale all the way up 30' cathedral ceilings. Uh, can you say, "Reflections?" I've got to get some window coverings and whatnot, otherwise it's going to be sonic nightmare when combined with the hardwood floors. It's going to take some time...and a lot of money...to dial it in :(

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon replaced an old Marantz with one of the newer Yamaha, it's been a year or so, probably not quite the same as the one you are talking about but it is an Aventage. He likes it but did comment it isn't as good as the older Marantz, sound and amp wise.

[topspeed]

Good to know, Mr. P. I pulled the trigger on the Marantz and am now just waiting for it to arrive. Found it from an authorized dealer on eBay for $649.88, pretty good prices for an item that carries a $899 msrp. I rarely buy anything on eBay, but the seller's credentials, return policy, and factory warranty seem solid. It even came with a free 3 year extended warranty. I'm looking forward to plugging it in so I can get my living room organized again! As it it is, I've got patch cords and gear all over the place.

I'll let you guy know how it all turned out once it's calibrated.

Speedy

[kexodusc]

This was a timely return for me as well. Great to see Speedy, and Mr. P still kicking. I need to build a system for my inlaws and am in the market. Let us know how it sounds, Topspeed! (and maybe forward the seller's page to curious minds)

[Mr Peabody]

Kex, what's up man, it's been to long.

[kexodusc]

Kex, what's up man, it's been to long.

I blame my daughters, lol. This whole parenting thing is hard work. Since they were born most of my hobbies have been put on the back burner (though started biking). Have been working hard on improving my time management skills, so hoping to make more frequent visits, lol.

Let's see...when last I checked 3D was just about to take off and be incorporated in every AVR and multichannel audio on BluRay was about to sweep the nation...what'd I miss?

[Mr Peabody]

Well, I don't think you really missed that much then :)

You have to enjoy every moment you can with the little ones while you can, it doesn't take long for them to grow up.

[topspeed]

Hey, Kex! Great to see you again! I've been away about as long as you have and for pretty much the same reasons. My boys are at the age where it's all sports, all the time. We had soccer playoffs starting at 6:30am on Saturday and Sunday with baseball games right after that. Weekend? What weekend?

Here is the link to the ebay retailer I used:
http://www.ebay.com/usr/echo-and-optics

I'm posting a quick thread on the Marantz now.