Now I get what retubing is about...

[StevenSurprenant]

I just retubed my Yaqin 13S using Tung-Sol 12ax7 and 12au7 tubes, replacing the Chinese tubes that came with the amp. The change was profound. I now understand what retubing is all about.

The image became darker and at the same time detail and harmonics increased. Also, images became more solid and the bass increased (in a very good way). The sound became smoother.

The most amazing thing was that I played an album that had shredded my ears on all the systems (at any price) that I played it on and now it was smooth and very enjoyable. All my albums sounded smoother.

The only thing I'm not thrilled about is the darker image, but it's well worth it considering the results.

I didn't expect any of this. I wouldn't call it more accurate, but I really like the way it sounds.

I had bought a Denon DL110 cartridge because of it's claims to make everything sound good, but now I'm not sure I need it. It's in the mail now, so I guess I'll find out.

Over the years I would change amps for more detail, clarity, and soundstaging, but this is a totally different animal.

[Feanor]

I just retubed my Yaqin 13S using Tung-Sol 12ax7 and 12au7 tubes, replacing the Chinese tubes that came with the amp. The change was profound. I now understand what retubing is all about.


I was into tube rolling from the start with my Sonic Frontiers preamp. For sure different tubes sounded different. In my case some old Amperex PQ 6922's were the best sounding. But eventually I decided that no preamp was the best preamp; now I use passive device consisting of an Alps Blue potentiometer.

In my last and final shot at vinyl I also got a Denon DL-110 plus an old Technics SL-D2 direct drive TT. I thought the Denon was very good vs. some almost 20 y/o cartridges I had lying around. I gave up on vinyl in that last venture after listening to a maybe a dozen LPs. 12" disc wrangling just wasn't worth the hassle in my case.

[StevenSurprenant]

I just ordered a set of winged SED EL34 power tubes. If anyone is interested in my results, let me know. From the results so far I surmise that this is old news for most people here.

[StevenSurprenant]

I was into tube rolling from the start with my Sonic Frontiers preamp. For sure different tubes sounded different. In my case some old Amperex PQ 6922's were the best sounding. But eventually I decided that no preamp was the best preamp; now I use passive device consisting of an Alps Blue potentiometer.

In my last and final shot at vinyl I also got a Denon DL-110 plus an old Technics SL-D2 direct drive TT. I thought the Denon was very good vs. some almost 20 y/o cartridges I had lying around. I gave up on vinyl in that last venture after listening to a maybe a dozen LPs. 12" disc wrangling just wasn't worth the hassle in my case.

I tried the Sonic Frontiers preamp and thought it was too dark in my system so I returned it. I was using Quad ESL's at that time.

I don't listen to music very often and so when I do I really enjoy the process of vinyl. It's always a special time for me. I tried using a server, but it took the joy out of it. Besides, I haven't had much luck with 16 bit digital. I really like the higher bit rates, but unless I copy my vinyl (at 24 bit) there isn't very much music at 24 bit available that I really enjoy. Different strokes for different folks...

Addendum:

After sleeping on it I realized that I made a mistake. It wasn't a Sonic Frontier that I tried, I believe it was Audible Illusions. At any rate and at the time, it was Stereophile class "A" rated.

I also had a Cal Labs tube DAC that I tried tube rolling with, but the results were minor compared to what changed with the Yaqin amp.

I should add that on the third day, the Yaqin, with the new tubes, seemed to open up and the darkness that I mentioned seems to be mostly gone. It also appears that the higher frequencies have more extension too.

[frenchmon]

Con grats on your findings and yes, the tubes have to run in for a while to sound their best.

[StevenSurprenant]

There doesn't seem to be much interest in this subject, but I'll give it one last try.

I installed my newest tubes, Svetlana Winged "C" SED EL34, in the amp and the results were astounding. The whole ordeal of tube rolling was not what I expected, mainly because most posts talk about tubes changing the tone. That, a person could do with an EQ. It went way beyond that.

First off, my Yaqin came with Shuguang tubes, 12ax7's and 12au7's in the preamp section and EL34B's for the power. These sounded very nice and this amp bettered my previous amp in every way. The difference wasn't huge, but enough that I won't be going back to my old amp any time soon, or ever.

The first tubes I changed were the preamp tubes with Tung-Sol's. At first these new tubes sounded very warm and dark, but at the same time detail/resolution improved across the board. The bass was warm, which is how I would think, tube like, would be described. It was very pleasant, but not exactly what I would call accurate. After a time, this warmth, in the lower registers, completely went away. Detail and resolution continued to increase. After full burn in, the soundstage was very clear and I could easily hear everything regardless of the level it was recorded at. In addition, there was more detail (resolution) of the different instruments and the space between them. On the down side, the bass was lacking in many recordings and the recordings sounded thin. On the upside, all of the poor recordings I had sounded better. A few that I classify as ear bleeders became less so. My good recordings sounded wonderful, albeit with less bass.

I then installed the Svetlana EL34 tubes. At first, the highs and lows improved considerably, but voices, which had previously been the best part of the audio presentation, seemed to become flattened into the soundstage and sounded muddy. I was scared it would stay that way, but as I listened, voices seemed to return to their former glory and even exceeded what I previously heard. After full burn in, resolution achieved even greater heights, but dynamics made a huge leap for the better. In addition, the harmonic content of the instruments increased. Bass was very tight and the lower midrange and upper midrange seemed to sound fuller which added to the solidity of the images. One side effect of all this is that, previously I would be listening to the main performer, who would stand out in the mix, and all the instrumentation was less prominent, but now, everything stood out and became prominent in it's own right, but never distracted from the main performer. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. There was so much going on that I never realized before. It changed the mundane into something exciting.

In any case, the Tong-Sol's and the Svetlana's were a good match for each other in this Yaqin amp.

Out of curiosity, I reinstalled the Shuguang 12ax7 preamp tubes and I freaked. I couldn't get them back out of the amp fast enough. Bass, mostly mid bass, increased causing everything to sound muddy and the soundstage collapsed. It was at this point that I now understood the synergy that tubes shared. To me, it was a revelation. It also explained why there were so many different opinions about tube brands.

Together, the Shuguang tubes worked very well together, their strengths and weakness added together created a balanced sound, as did the Tung-Sol's and Svetlana's.

This explains the results I got when using Tung-Sol's (in the preamp section) with the Shuguang EL34 power tubes. As I mentioned, there was a substantial increase in clarity/resolution but a loss of mid bass with this configuration. If I were to reverse this description, it would accurately describe the Shuguang 12ax7'c sound quality when used with the Svetlana EL34.

In the end, this "tube rolling" has far exceeded my expectations and what I've learned goes far beyond which tubes are better. It has taught me that it's about synergy or "ying yang".

[Hyfi]

Steve,

I am interested in your results and thoughts. I don't "roll" but have retubed both my pre and amp with way better tubes than I originally had used and what came with them. Since I like to run my Pre in Buffered Passive mode, the 12ax7 is taken out of the path and only the 12au7s are used. I am considering a few new (old) ones for that spot. The early '60s 6FQ7s RCA Cleartops I dropped in my Counterpoint made worlds of difference.

[StevenSurprenant]

Steve,

I am interested in your results and thoughts. I don't "roll" but have retubed both my pre and amp with way better tubes than I originally had used and what came with them. Since I like to run my Pre in Buffered Passive mode, the 12ax7 is taken out of the path and only the 12au7s are used. I am considering a few new (old) ones for that spot. The early '60s 6FQ7s RCA Cleartops I dropped in my Counterpoint made worlds of difference.

Thanks Hyfi.

I'm still mostly ignorant about tubes and tube amps. Please correct me if I make any mistakes....

In any case, I do realize (now) what impact different tubes can have on sound quality, especially clarity, soundstaging, dynamics, and tone.

I was just thinking...

I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that NOS tubes are better than new production tubes. I'm inclined to think it's a fad and nothing more, but so many people claim that NOS is better. My mind is still open on this. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[slacker]

going to do tube rolling with my audio space 3.1 KT88 just bought quad Eat KT88s
Mullard 6SN7 x 2 / 4 ECC82 cost more than the amp but I believe original tubes have about 500 hours on them

[StevenSurprenant]

going to do tube rolling with my audio space 3.1 KT88 just bought quad Eat KT88s
Mullard 6SN7 x 2 / 4 ECC82 cost more than the amp but I believe original tubes have about 500 hours on them

Nice looking amp! Audio Space Reference 3.1 Integrated Tube Amplifier Review | Dagogo | A Unique Audiophile Experience (http://dagogo.com/audio-space-reference-3-1-integrated-tube-amplifier-review)

As I'm new to tubes, I have a hard time believing all tubes go out after 500 hours, at least I'm hoping that is not always true. I bought a tube radio in 1964 and finally threw it in the trash in 1988. It still worked fine, but it was AM only.

I've heard that if you drive tubes hard they will go out quickly, so I'm hoping the converse is also true.

I drive my EL34 tubes at about 5 or 10 watts, never higher. They are 40 watts, so I'm hoping that makes a difference towards longevity. I really don't know!

It would be nice if to hear about other peoples experiences on this.

[slacker]

wont be retubing for quite some time Im sure audio space tubes are fine when I auditioned it the sound was so sweet especially with female vocals and jazz
Just do not want to get caught without new set of tubes when they go
Im new to tube amplification also running Parasound A21/JC2 amp pre amp
combo in ss form.Best of both words I believe both amps are beasts over
60 pounds each A21/JC2 combo for rock ... Audio space 3.1 KT88 for jazz
and classical