Looking for new speakers

[Billiam62]

Some background information to help you get me pointed in the right direction.

Will be using two different integrated amps. A Qinpu A3 which is an 8 ohm hybrid tube/solid state at 8.5 wpc. And I just bought a Topping TP 21 which is rated at 25 wpc at 4 ohms or 12 watts at 8 ohms.

Currently I have a pair of Mirage OM 10's that work great with the Qinpu but I had to box them up because I have a cat that likes to jump on them. Probably the black sock around it that it wants to climb. Until I can get into a house again and build a listening room that is cat free, I can't use these.

Also have a pair of Castle Conway 3's. The design of this speaker does not mesh with the Qinpu. Midrange is completely gone as the bass overwhelms everything. According to two friends with an engineering background in electronics, the problem is the damping factor of the speaker. I am going to see if the Topping will work with this pair. Arrives today and will try it out this weekend.

In the meantime I need to find a pair of speakers to use with the Qinpu amp. I want to avoid a forward sounding speaker or one that has a bright sound. I can still hear well above 20,000 khz on the high end and a speaker like the Klipsch will hurt my ears. Gave up my Heresy's for that very reason. I want something that is essentially neutral or that has a touch of warmth like Jamo speakers or the older Mirage lines. I won't get listening fatigue from these.

I just tried a pair of Jamo C603 bookshelf speakers and liked them very much. But... Bought them through Amazon and had to return them because one speaker obviously was damaged. Found pink specks of paint on the baffle and a blotch of glossy black paint on the cabinet when the speaker is all flat black. And it sounded like they had already been broken in. No manual either. Billed as new but they seemed to be used.

So, I am back to looking at some other speakers. I could try to order another pair of C603's since there are still some new and used pairs around. Another option is the C803 which appears to be an outstanding speaker for the money. Hard to find but still a pair shows up used or even new at times.

I auditioned the Phase Technology V-4 a few weeks ago and liked that speaker very much as well. While a tad less warm than the Jamo's it had the same wide sound stage and balanced instrumentation where no sonic characteristic over powered any other in the sound field. Very clean sound just like the Jamo's. It sounds like the new V-52 is the replacement for the V-4 but has a bit better bass section according to the manufacturer.

I've heard that the Martian Logan's Moshun 10 and 12 are out of this world for the close out prices. I've ruled out the 12 because the full front grill is likely to attract the cat and also the downward firing port is likely to be a problem for the Qinpu amp. The Castle Conway 3 has this same design and I think it leads to the damping factor that overwhelms the mid range. Not sure if the Motion 10 h as this same design but the front grill only covers the top half of the speaker and since the cat does not jump on the Conway 3 speakers which has a driver cover on the top half of the speaker, I think the design at least in terms of the outward appearance will be fine.

I could find a pair of Jamo E660's or E650's (both towers) used for next to nothing. Also could buy a pair of Jamo C605 towers used. Heard good things about all of these speakers. Not sure how heavy the bass is but I figure as long as they don't have the downward firing port (C603 is a rear port) then it should work OK.

Can I get some insight into any of these speakers from people that have owned them or at least have heard them and compared them to other speakers? Especially if matched with a tube amp. Or if anyone can recommend something else that I may have missed but should look into? Budget is around $400 to $500 a pair either for new or used. Got the C603's for less than $350 shipped and can find similar offers out there again. But I want to explore my options since I have to wonder if QC was the problem with that speaker or the Distributor that sent them to the Seller with Amazon.

Thanks. BTW. Will be using a traditional two speaker system for music, not home theater.

[Mr Peabody]

The Martin Logan are definitely out, they typically need high current or a powerful tube amp. I am also skeptical of Jamo these days they seem to be all over the place with their product from dirt cheap to whatever, you'd really need to know the line or a good rep to guide you to the models still of quality, and then, I'd wonder if the small tube amps could drive them to potential.

You have low power and pretty much need to stick with a high efficient speaker. Zu Audio will allow you a return policy, I found with my Conrad Johnson the Zu had extended high end but different than the Klipsch. You could look for a vintage Klipsch like the Forte that has a more refined sound compared to the Heresy. There are other high efficient speakers around but I'm not familiar with them all. I've yet to hear a high efficient speaker I'd call warm but it could exist. Audio Note also comes to mind in HE speakers but I can't speak to the sound of them.

Another option would be to look at something like the Golden Ear that has built in amplification for the bass and make for a light load for your tube amp. I've been told Sandy Gross the designer uses a 30 watt tube amp with his GE. This option would be my personal choice as I like a full bottom end and volume when I want it.

[Feanor]

...
Another option would be to look at something like the Golden Ear that has built in amplification for the bass and make for a light load for your tube amp. I've been told Sandy Gross the designer uses a 30 watt tube amp with his GE. This option would be my personal choice as I like a full bottom end and volume when I want it.
Are you talking about the Golden Ear Tritons? Surely their coverings make them prime cat bait :yikes:.

http://www.goldenear.com/images/stories/products/tritontwo/triton_detail_overview_image_new.jpg

[Billiam62]

Yes, those Tritons won't work. My budget is in the range of $400 to $500 a pair. I already spent a grand for the OM 10's and 2 grand for the Conway 3's. I just need something decent to tide me over for a year or two until I can build a listening room with a door to keep the cat out.

The OM 10 is a 6 ohm speaker with a 90 db sensitivity and it works fine with the Qinpu. In fact the sound is superior to that of the older Cambridge Audio Amp I had been using for a decade. And the C603's sounded excellent as well and they too were 6 ohm but with an 88 db sensitivity. Don't need to turn up the volume more than a quarter of the way with either speaker before it starts to get very loud.

[blackraven]

Consider a high efficiency design such as these tektons- model 65t and 81t. the 81t has a sensitivity of 95dB.

tekton-designcontent2011 (http://www.tektondesign.com/products.html)

Klipsch Heresy II''s in Oak mint condition with oak risers - and other extra's !!!!! | Full range | Camillus, New York 13031 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-klipsch-heresy-ii-s-in-oak-mint-condition-with-oak-risers-and-other-extra-s-2013-03-30-speakers-13031-camillus-ny)

These martin logans have a metal grill and are rated at 92dB-

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MLMO15)

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/ViewLargerIMage.asp?title=MartinLogan+-+Motion+15+-+Bookshelf+Speaker&image=images/MLMO15_EGB-Large.jpg)

[Mr Peabody]

Aw, Feanor, I forgot about that.

Blackraven, despite the ML sensitivity they are a difficult load and the OP mentioned he disposed of a set of Heresy based on the sound.

I'd have to check the specs but you might look at the JBL Studio 530. The horn sounds nothing like Klipsch and there's a raving thread here on AR called "Oops I did it again".

[Mr Peabody]

Correction, the Martin Logan Motion may work, I've heard them pushed by one of the top end Yamaha receivers, so if his tube amp has the drive he says the ML could work.

[JohnMichael]

I was curious about the ML Motions due to the Heil style tweeter. The ML's are rated at 90 db efficiency. I really think the Studio 530's are great but are rated at 86 db efficiency.

[blackraven]

Actually the ML motions are rated at 92dB. He would definitely need a sub. They are rated down to 60Hz. Another speaker to consider would be a PSB Alpha B-1 and pair it with a sub. They are rated at 89dB but are easy to drive and can be had for $279pr and for even less if he bought B-stock from Saturday Audio (http://www.saturdayaudio.com) at $240pr. They have a plastic grill.


PSB Alpha B1 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com (http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/507psb/index.html)


These infinity Beta's have a metal grill and were pretty nice sounding, much better than the current Primus line. They had a warmer fuller sound.

Infinity Beta 20 Bookshelf Speakers (http://madison.craigslist.org/ele/3625614624.html)

specs- Infinity Beta™ 20 Bookshelf speaker at Crutchfield.com (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Vg0yntlWuci/p_108BT20B/Infinity-Beta-20.html#details-tab)

[Billiam62]

Consider a high efficiency design such as these tektons- model 65t and 81t. the 81t has a sensitivity of 95dB.

tekton-designcontent2011 (http://www.tektondesign.com/products.html)

Klipsch Heresy II''s in Oak mint condition with oak risers - and other extra's !!!!! | Full range | Camillus, New York 13031 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-klipsch-heresy-ii-s-in-oak-mint-condition-with-oak-risers-and-other-extra-s-2013-03-30-speakers-13031-camillus-ny)

These martin logans have a metal grill and are rated at 92dB-

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MLMO15)

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/ViewLargerIMage.asp?title=MartinLogan+-+Motion+15+-+Bookshelf+Speaker&image=images/MLMO15_EGB-Large.jpg)

These suggestions are worth a look. Tomorrow I will hook up the little Topping T21 amp to the Castle speakers. If they sound good with this amp then I will only need one pair of speakers and can wait a few months or so to save some additional money to budget towards a better speaker.

Can't consider the Klipsch brand though since I owned Heresy's at one time and they were too bright for my ears. I never became accustomed to that sound and I always ended up with listening fatigue.

[Billiam62]

Aw, Feanor, I forgot about that.

Blackraven, despite the ML sensitivity they are a difficult load and the OP mentioned he disposed of a set of Heresy based on the sound.

I'd have to check the specs but you might look at the JBL Studio 530. The horn sounds nothing like Klipsch and there's a raving thread here on AR called "Oops I did it again".

Have not heard JBL's in many years. Last time was the L5 and L7 towers. Like both and they did not sound as bright as the Klipsch. Will look into this idea as well. Thanks.

[Mr Peabody]

JM, it's interesting what makes some speakers easy to drive and some not, the Harbeth are a popular speaker amongst those using tube gear and they are only like 84dB. I was at a shop that drove the Harbeth with a Leben tube integrated but when I wanted to hear the Totem with higher efficiency rating the guy switched to a Naim amp saying the Totem needed some current but explained the Harbeth were tube friendly. I've not heard the Studio's with tubes yet but Crutchfield offers a return policy. Granted though they aren't going to play all that loud at 86dB with just a few watts.

[LeRoy]

Or if anyone can recommend something else that I may have missed but should look into? Budget is around $400 to $500 a pair either for new or used. Got the C603's for less than $350 shipped and can find similar offers out there again. But I want to explore my options since I have to wonder if QC was the problem with that speaker or the Distributor that sent them to the Seller with Amazon.

Thanks. BTW. Will be using a traditional two speaker system for music, not home theater.

Hi Billaim62, I happen to own 2 Qinpu A-6000 integrated amps. The A-6000 easily drives my Dali Ikon 2 MK2's @86.5 db efficiency. The other A-6000 does not so easily drive a pair of System-Audio Aura 1's at 84 db efficiency.

I was looking at the Dali Zenzor 1 given the great reviews but they are too inefficient for the A3. Have a look at the Cambridge Audio S-30. I have purchased 3 pairs of these wonderful speakers and gave them as gifts to relatives as christmas gifts.

The C.A. speakers are great for the money and will surprise you with the quantity and quality of the bass while presenting a very good midrange and tweeter integration. I don't know if any speaker is really cat attack proof and have no idea why a cat would prefer one speaker over another but hey...the price is right down the path you are seeking to stay in. Read the reviews.

S30 Bookshelf Hi Fi Speakers (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/s30-bookshelf-speaker)

Good luck with your research and final decision.

[Billiam62]

Leroy. How bright is the S30? I've read some other reviews of this speaker and at least a couple of owners have mentioned the high end is a bit bright. Overall the reviews of this speaker are quite good though.

[LeRoy]

Leroy. How bright is the S30? I've read some other reviews of this speaker and at least a couple of owners have mentioned the high end is a bit bright. Overall the reviews of this speaker are quite good though.

I never found the speakers to be bright at all. The equipment I had them paired with were Belles Soloist Amp and Pre and also the Rega Brio 3. With regard to the source what was being utilized at the time, it was either the Musical Fidelity XRAY or the Stello Signature DAC and Stello Transport. If you are familiar with the Usher S-520 then it's in the ballpark, tonally, as the S-520.

One thing that the CA S-30 did catch my attention on when doing an a/b comparison to another speaker ( I forgot which brand/model I was comparing to) the C.A. is a little grainy but not terribly so. I did not hear the grain unless I was doing the a/b so it depends on the focus of the listener at the time?

By the way, for H.T. i utilize Mirage Omnisat 5.0 with a Rel R-528 sub and an antique Arcam AVR 200 receiver.

What kind of speaker wire and interconnects are you using?

[Billiam62]

I never found the speakers to be bright at all. The equipment I had them paired with were Belles Soloist Amp and Pre and also the Rega Brio 3. With regard to the source what was being utilized at the time, it was either the Musical Fidelity XRAY or the Stello Signature DAC and Stello Transport. If you are familiar with the Usher S-520 then it's in the ballpark, tonally, as the S-520.

One thing that the CA S-30 did catch my attention on when doing an a/b comparison to another speaker ( I forgot which brand/model I was comparing to) the C.A. is a little grainy but not terribly so. I did not hear the grain unless I was doing the a/b so it depends on the focus of the listener at the time?

By the way, for H.T. i utilize Mirage Omnisat 5.0 with a Rel R-528 sub and an antique Arcam AVR 200 receiver.

What kind of speaker wire and interconnects are you using?

AudioQuest Type 4 speaker cable. Golden Gate Interconnects.

Just spent a few hours listening to the Conway 3's with the little Topping T21 amp. Thankfully the speakers sound good again. But... I noted this amp will more easily drive a 4 or 6 ohm speaker than 8 ohms which is what the Conway's are. Thus, I had to turn up the volume knob to about halfway just to get a fairly decent level of audio to listen to. At least my midrange is back with this amp and I can get by with this pairing for a while until I can buy a 4 or 6 ohm speaker to match up with this amp. Since the Qinpu is 8 Ohm, either another 6 ohm or an 8 ohm speaker will work fine.

[Billiam62]

Leroy. What is your opinion of the S70 tower? It is 8 ohm and should work fine with the Qinpu. Reviews seem quite good and the only concerns expressed by a couple of people seems to be making certain you use a good amp.

[Billiam62]

Aw, Feanor, I forgot about that.

Blackraven, despite the ML sensitivity they are a difficult load and the OP mentioned he disposed of a set of Heresy based on the sound.

I'd have to check the specs but you might look at the JBL Studio 530. The horn sounds nothing like Klipsch and there's a raving thread here on AR called "Oops I did it again".

I just did a little digging on the JBL 530 and yes, it is getting rave reviews from virtually everyone that either owns a pair or has listened to them. Since I can still hear well over 20,000 khz on the high end this speaker might be exactly what I am looking for since it is not at all harsh like the Klipsch horn tweeters. Wish I could afford the 570 towers.

Tomorrow I am going to hook up the Mirage OM 10's for a few minutes to the Topping TP21 amp to see how well it will drive a 6 ohm speaker. It does not do very well with the 8 Ohm Castle Conway's but if it adequately drives the OM 10's then it might work with both the Qinpu and Topping amps despite the lower sensitivity rating.

[LeRoy]

AudioQuest Type 4 speaker cable. Golden Gate Interconnects.



I am not familiar with G.G. I.C.s but am familiar with A.Q. You happy with the cables?

[LeRoy]

Leroy. What is your opinion of the S70 tower? It is 8 ohm and should work fine with the Qinpu. Reviews seem quite good and the only concerns expressed by a couple of people seems to be making certain you use a good amp.

You would have to ask me that..lol...Okay, I have heard the S70's over a several month period being driven by C.A. integrated and Belles amplification. I have heard the S70's in different environments too, living rooms, audio show rooms, dens. I have never enjoyed listening to the S70 regardless of which electronics were behind them. This included high end CDP's like Lektor CDP-7T and Naim Uniti.

Long story short, I would not ever consider the S70.

[Billiam62]

I am not familiar with G.G. I.C.s but am familiar with A.Q. You happy with the cables?

Golden Gate is an AQ interconnect. Just a notch above the Nevergreen. Yes, I am pretty pleased with both cables. Initially tried the Copperhead interconnect but that seemed to mute certain mid range frequencies. Golden Gate reduces the muddy and boomy bass in problem recordings. Type 4 seems to offer a bit more clarity than regular speaker wire.

[Billiam62]

You would have to ask me that..lol...Okay, I have heard the S70's over a several month period being driven by C.A. integrated and Belles amplification. I have heard the S70's in different environments too, living rooms, audio show rooms, dens. I have never enjoyed listening to the S70 regardless of which electronics were behind them. This included high end CDP's like Lektor CDP-7T and Naim Uniti.

Long story short, I would not ever consider the S70.

Thanks. Reviews are mixed on that model and based upon what you've said I won't consider it.

[Billiam62]

Leroy. Another question.

If I get bookshelf speakers instead of towers I will likely purchase a subwoofer. Probably going to be the NHT Super 8.

How do you hook this up to the Qinpu? The manual says to hook up a subwoofer to the 1/8 '' Output and the speakers to the Speaker Outputs. Would this not give you bass out of all three speakers? I have no experience with subwoofers but it seems to me that the speakers should be wired into the subwoofer to take advantage of the cross over that can cancel out the low end in the bookshelf speakers.

[LeRoy]

Leroy. Another question.

How do you hook this up to the Qinpu? The manual says to hook up a subwoofer to the 1/8 '' Output and the speakers to the Speaker Outputs. Would this not give you bass out of all three speakers? I have no experience with subwoofers but it seems to me that the speakers should be wired into the subwoofer to take advantage of the cross over that can cancel out the low end in the bookshelf speakers.

The Qinpu A-6000 came with a sub-woofer y-connector. I have never considered hooking up a sub to the QA6000. If you were looking to use a sub and hook up directly to the Q speaker posts I suppose that would work but would first check with Q and see if that would cause harm to the A3.

The Rel sub has the Neutrik connector:
Neutrik Speakon, RCA low level input, .1/LFE input with separate volume control

The Rel's are pricey but so musical.

I used to own a Velodyne VX-10 which is now updated to the VX-11
Velodyne VX-11 10 inch Subwoofer (http://velodyne.com/vx-11.html)

Great value on the VX-11.

[Billiam62]

The Qinpu A-6000 came with a sub-woofer y-connector. I have never considered hooking up a sub to the QA6000. If you were looking to use a sub and hook up directly to the Q speaker posts I suppose that would work but would first check with Q and see if that would cause harm to the A3.

The Rel sub has the Neutrik connector:
Neutrik Speakon, RCA low level input, .1/LFE input with separate volume control

The Rel's are pricey but so musical.

I used to own a Velodyne VX-10 which is now updated to the VX-11
Velodyne VX-11 10 inch Subwoofer (http://velodyne.com/vx-11.html)

Great value on the VX-11.

Thanks. Finally making some headway as far as determining what kind of speakers to buy when I am ready.

On a whim I decided to swap out the Type 4 cable with the old spade lugs with some regular RS speaker wire. Suddenly the audio level has increased substantially and the Castle's sound every bit as good, it not better on the Topping TP 21 than they did when I used them with the Cambridge Audio amp. My guess is the spade lugs are not fitting either the amp or speakers properly. Thankfully I won't have to waste my time taking the OM 10's out of the boxes for a few minutes to test the audio level of the system.

With some bookshelf speakers I will need a subwoofer. If I repurchase the Jamo C603 I may not if I position them correctly. They had some very nice, clean but strong bass for a speaker of that size. But when I listened to the Phase Technology V-4 in a local showroom, it was evident, regardless of where I placed the speakers that the bass was weak and it would require a subwoofer. Since I have not auditioned bookshelf speakers in decades, it will be trial and error during the listening process or if I purchase ear unheard via an online seller such as Amazon, Vann's, Crutchfield, etc. Since the area where I presently live doesn't have squat for stereo equipment these days (non home theater use) I doubt I can easily find what I want in the local area.

In light of this morning's events, I will now only need one pair of speakers for certain and can wait a couple of months to purchase. By that time I will probably be able to spend at least $500 or a little more if I desire on a better speaker if one of the sub $500 pairs don't suit me. And now I can consider an 8 ohm speaker because it should work just fine with the Topping amp in addition to the Qinpu.

[Mr Peabody]

You should also be fine hooking the sub up the way the manual recommends, your amps power wouldn't harm the bookshelf speakers (unless driven into clipping, of course) and you can just dial the sub in to blend with the bookshelf speakers where they begin rolling off the bottom end.

[LeRoy]

Thanks. Finally making some headway as far as determining what kind of speakers to buy when I am ready.

On a whim I decided to swap out the Type 4 cable with the old spade lugs with some regular RS speaker wire. Suddenly the audio level has increased substantially and the Castle's sound every bit as good, it not better on the Topping TP 21 than they did when I used them with the Cambridge Audio amp. My guess is the spade lugs are not fitting either the amp or speakers properly. Thankfully I won't have to waste my time taking the OM 10's out of the boxes for a few minutes to test the audio level of the system.

In light of this morning's events, I will now only need one pair of speakers for certain and can wait a couple of months to purchase. By that time I will probably be able to spend at least $500 or a little more if I desire on a better speaker if one of the sub $500 pairs don't suit me. And now I can consider an 8 ohm speaker because it should work just fine with the Topping amp in addition to the Qinpu.

I see you are hard at work in your audio lab this morning!! Good deal. Now you are funneling up to the hard choices in the near future. Good luck with the next batch of research.

[Billiam62]

So, in a nutshell, I am planning to purchase a second Qinpu in the future (the A-6000 MK II this time) and will probably either give away the Topping amp or keep it to use as a temporary fix if one of the Qinpu's bites the dutst. I prefer the sound of the tube/solid state hybrid to that T class solid state amp I've tried for the last week.

I've been doing more research and I discovered the new "A" line by Boston Acoustics gets rave reviews. And apparently the new Classic II line offers sound quality that belies its price. What do people think about the latest entry level offerings from BA? These speakers look like they will work fine with my Qinpu amp since they all appear to be 8 ohm and have an adequate sensitivity level. From what I read the new Classic II series offers a sound that is quite similar to the Jamo speaker line. Fairly neutral with a touch of warmth. And I am guessing that the A line is pretty neutral with a wide soundstage.

Both speaker lines have several models within my budget. Probably the only speaker I would not consider buying is the A360 because I don't want to lug around another 40 plus pound speaker. The Mirage OM 10's already weigh over 40 lbs. and I want something smaller to use for my second system Smaller tower or bookshelf is fine.

How would the CA S30 compare to the BA speakers? The Tekton M Lore and 65t would probably match up great with the Qinpu amp. But I cannot find much info about the character of the sound of these speakers. Not sure if they are neutral or not.

Can anyone think of a pair of speakers still on the market that will sound anything like the older Mirage Bipolar or Omnipolar lines like my OM 10 speakers? That is the sound I am striving to find but now that Mirage is out of business and the latest offerings area really a Klipsch sound, I doubt they are going to offer that really neutral sound and spacious sound stage that envelopes you when you are sitting in any part of the room.

I figure I should use at least a 6 ohm or 8 ohm speaker with at least an 88 db sensitivity if I am going to adequately drive the Qinpu amps. Now it is a matter of finding the right sound.

Any additional ideas will be welcome. I won't be purchasing anything for about another month. Still have time to do more research. Right now the CA S30 is my first choice but I want to see if there is something else out there that costs less than $600 (give or take) that will likely be better and offer a sound that closely resembles the Mirage OM 10's.

[Feanor]

...
Can anyone think of a pair of speakers still on the market that will sound anything like the older Mirage Bipolar or Omnipolar lines like my OM 10 speakers? That is the sound I am striving to find but now that Mirage is out of business and the latest offerings area really a Klipsch sound, I doubt they are going to offer that really neutral sound and spacious sound stage that envelopes you when you are sitting in any part of the room.

I figure I should use at least a 6 ohm or 8 ohm speaker with at least an 88 db sensitivity if I am going to adequately drive the Qinpu amps. Now it is a matter of finding the right sound.
....
Speakers that would resemble the Mirage "Omnipolar" speakers in imaging and soundstage would be the Ohm line -- see HERE (http://www.ohmspeakers.com/).

The Ohm's are true omnidirectional speakers. I don't see sensitivity figures but I suspect they would be on the low side.

I owned a pair of Ohm F's many years ago and always regretted that I sold them.

[Billiam62]

Speakers that would resemble the Mirage "Omnipolar" speakers in imaging and soundstage would be the Ohm line -- see HERE (http://www.ohmspeakers.com/).

The Ohm's are true omnidirectional speakers. I don't see sensitivity figures but I suspect they would be on the low side.

I owned a pair of Ohm F's many years ago and always regretted that I sold them.

Hey, Thanks! My Uncle had a pair of Ohms in the 80's in his listening room and I loved the sound. I did not even know they were still being made. I will look into this idea. Since the 6000 MK II is double the wpc to the A 3 amp, I may be able to get by with a lower sensitivity rating just as long as the speakers impedance is not set at 4 ohms.

[LeRoy]

So, in a nutshell, I am planning to purchase a second Qinpu in the future (the A-6000 MK II this time)

I figure I should use at least a 6 ohm or 8 ohm speaker with at least an 88 db sensitivity if I am going to adequately drive the Qinpu amps. Now it is a matter of finding the right sound.
.

You sound like a man on a mission. Okay, about the QA6000. I have usable volume up to 12:00 pretty much most of the time. At 12:00 on the volume knob I get all the output/loudness that I want and need no more than that. Depending on material, sometimes I can hear the amp strain a little bit at 12:00.

Bear in mind that my A6000 is driving large stand mounts at 86.5 db efficiency and I get all the bass slam, depth, drive, and musicality from the Dali Ikon2 mk2 from the paring with the A6000. The Dali is a 6 ohm speaker.

All I am saying here is that you can get a speaker rated at 86.5 db and still be okay with the Q.

I did not know Mirage went out of business...that's sad news to me. I was always quite fond of their products and bought a few of their models over the years. As far as other speaker manufacturers offering an onmi approach to dispersion, Duevel, offers a Planet speaker but they are inefficient and tad more $$. Here is a link just as an FYI.

6moons audio reviews: Duevel Planets (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/duevel4/planets.html)

[Billiam62]

You sound like a man on a mission. Okay, about the QA6000. I have usable volume up to 12:00 pretty much most of the time. At 12:00 on the volume knob I get all the output/loudness that I want and need no more than that. Depending on material, sometimes I can hear the amp strain a little bit at 12:00.

Bear in mind that my A6000 is driving large stand mounts at 86.5 db efficiency and I get all the bass slam, depth, drive, and musicality from the Dali Ikon2 mk2 from the paring with the A6000. The Dali is a 6 ohm speaker.

All I am saying here is that you can get a speaker rated at 86.5 db and still be okay with the Q.

I did not know Mirage went out of business...that's sad news to me. I was always quite fond of their products and bought a few of their models over the years. As far as other speaker manufacturers offering an onmi approach to dispersion, Duevel, offers a Planet speaker but they are inefficient and tad more $$. Here is a link just as an FYI.

6moons audio reviews: Duevel Planets (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/duevel4/planets.html)

This is excellent info Leroy. Thanks. I noted the Dali Zensor 1 is an 86db speaker. Sounds like it will work fine with either amp then.

I don't want to jump the gun and buy something until I've spent a reasonable amount of time researching speakers. I literally have not spent any time, whatsoever looking at speakers since 2003. I have a lot to get caught up on over the last decade.

Yes, Klipsch is closing the Mirage speaker line. Ran it into the ground. I suspect they are doing the same thing with Energy as well. Based upon what I see they will keep the Jamo line as a low budget alternative to their own brand. While they seem to be ruining the Jamo name and quality, they will find a niche with the sound of that speaker since it is quite different than the Klipsch sound.

[LeRoy]

This is excellent info Leroy. Thanks. I noted the Dali Zensor 1 is an 86db speaker. Sounds like it will work fine with either amp then.

I don't want to jump the gun and buy something until I've spent a reasonable amount of time researching speakers. I literally have not spent any time, whatsoever looking at speakers since 2003. I have a lot to get caught up on over the last decade.
.

Your welcome. Ya, you're taking the right approach in your speaker quest. I looked at the Dali website and specs on the Dali Ikon 2 mk2 are:
Recommended Amplifier Power [W] 30 - 150
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB] 86.5
Nominal Impedance [Ω] 6

Also from the Dali website, the specs on the Zensor 1 are:
Recommended Amplifier Power [W] 25 - 100
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB] 86.5
Nominal Impedance [Ω] 6
Connection input(s) Single Wire

So, not too much difference with the recommended amp power. I would suppose the Zensor speaker would not be a problem for the A-6000. As an aside, I bought the Ikons speakers even though I could not find any reviews on them. I did have a series of consults with, Frenchmon, about Dali speakers in general. Up until the time of my purchasing the Ikons I had yet to hear any Dali speaker that I liked. I listened to the advice of Frenchmon and glad I did. I have had no regrets whatsoever with the purchase of the Ikons.

The Zensor 1 reviews are very favorable so the risk in making a regrettable purchase of these speakers for your Q is probably quite low.

[Billiam62]

Looks like I've found my speaker. Unfortunately I will have to spend a few months saving money before I can purchase. However, it should be well worth the wait. Going to get an Ohm pair. Either the small or entry level Tall MicroWalsh SE or one of their new bookshelf speakers should do the trick.

[Billiam62]

Back to the drawing board. I think the Ohms will be cost prohibitive at this point. The room where I am going to put my speakers is 14' by 14' with a 10 foot high ceiling. Based upon the input I've received from the Ohm speaker finder and also the rep at Ohm, apparently the base model Walsh Tower will not be adequate for this size room. I just cant' spend 2 grand or more on new speakers.

In the meantime I purchased a pair of Jamo C601's for less than $200 brand new. A great little speaker with surprisingly good bass for a 4 inch cone. I am going to set them up in this room next month (at a home I just purchased in another city) to see if they will adequately fill the room with sound. According to the Jamo website speaker finder they will. I almost bought the Cambridge Audio S30 until I stumbled across these on sale. Well worth the price as they sound much more expensive than the sale price.

I am still going to need another pair of speakers though since I plan to use the C601 pair for something else. That being the case I'd still like to get something that can replace the Mirage OM 10's with at least some of the same audio characteristics. Since Ohm is apparently the only other Omni Polar type speaker out there I will consider Jamo again and a Bipolar speaker

Jamo fits the bill since it has a pretty neutral sound quality with just a hint of warmth. And the sound stage is quite wide and even bigger than the very boxy sounding Castle Conway 3's that I am replacing.

Since I am still interested in finding something similar to the Mirage sound, I guess I want to find out if anyone will recommend something like the Definitive Technology BP 6. I auditioned them when they were first released along with the BP 10 but ultimately settled for the OM 10's a few years later after hearing those and finding they sounded nearly perfect to my ears. I suspect this is due to the showroom set up though and not necessarily a problem with the speakers since the DT's get great reviews as well.

The Jamo website is recommending the A510 and C803 for the size room that I have. I'd like to get some feedback on these speakers and the BP 6 from anyone that has an opinion.

Will I be happy with the BP 6 as a replacement for the OM 10's? And will the Bipolar sound of these speakers closely mirror the Omni Polar sound of the OM 10's? Or should I stick with the Jamo speaker or something similar since it has most of what I am looking for, sound wise?

[Billiam62]

The room where I will locate my speakers is 14 by 14 feet. The wall where I will be putting the speakers has a dormant fireplace in the center of the wall that is about six feet across and juts out about 8 inches to perhaps a foot from the wall.

How will this impact the image of speakers that are either wall mounted or sitting right in front of the wall with little or no space behind them?

Would I be better off using a speaker that needs to be a foot or more off the rear wall to achieve the best sound and image? Or would the former wall mounted or a bookshelf or tower located up against the wall still sound OK?