Pro-Ject TT

[bob r]

Hi! to all here am new here lol but not new to stereo EQ i have 2 power Amp's NAD S200 with a NAD s100 pre-amp and polk SDA Flag ships with 2 M&K sub's and a new TT Pro-Ject Debut carbon Ortofon 2M Red the TT i just got 4/11/2013

[bob r]

So now do you still get any noise when listening? They shouldn't sell stuff they can't set up. Vibrations do cause issues, if nothing else, it effects the sound. I'm not sure how your cartridge mounts, if tiny wires check to make sure firmly in place, if it plugs in make sure the screw is in place, there should be a screw that goes in the side of the cartridge to hold it in place to the arm. If your subs are too close to where the table is it could also cause issues. You might check around online to look for Do-It-Yourself (DIY) items to help with vibration control. You might also post your issue again in the "analog" forum, there are guys here that know a lot more about turntables than me

[bob r]

am back to answer you i still here the Hum it is not as loud as it was after taking out the rubber grommets that no one at the store knew about even the table that was on display still had them under the motor mount
their are two screws you take out (for shipping ) when i left the store the salesman
took them out for me and theirs and no where in the manual does it tell you to remove them

anyways i am not to happy with the Hum from this table

[JohnMichael]

I wonder if you have hum or feedback. Feedback is when you have speakers with good bass and the bass vibrates the tonearm and cartridge and those vibrations are replayed and create a feedback loop. If it is simple hum make sure your turntables ground wire is attached to the ground on the back of your preamp. In some rare conditions you will have less hum with the wire detached.

If it is acoustic feedback moving your table on a more solid stand or further from the speakers may help.

[dean_martin]

I can relate. After using an old table I had from thethe early 90s and trying 2 old tables off ebay, I bought a new pro- ject entry-level table. That was at least 10 years ago. I had forgotten that the first one had a problem with one channel dropping out. My retailer put me in touch with someone at sumiko which was the pro-ject distributor at the time. Even though my retailer should've handled the problem, my contact at sumiko shipped me a new table and all was well. I've read that my contact at sumiko (can't remember his name) is no longer there and customer service has suffered since he left. Do a little online research, find out who the current distributor is for your country and call or shoot them an email if you can't go through a pro-ject retailer.

[blackraven]

I have read nothing but mostly good things about the Debut TT. I am surprised that you are having problems.

[bob r]

Thanks to all of you for replying i am thinking the same thing but when i went back to the dealer they had the same table as i do set-up in their front sound room as you walk in the front door it's the first thing you see

and they have a pair of martian Logan's speakers and the TT in the middle the day i went back they had the same Vibration coming from the turntables tone arm as i do

And thats when we both found out that the rubber grommets under the transport were also still their and no one new about removing them

After they removed them the Vibration did get a lot less but you could still feel it when you touch the tonearm

i have tried the ground wire that was the first thing i did was to remove it to see if the Hum got louder and boy did it

[blackraven]

Thanks to all of you for replying i am thinking the same thing but when i went back to the dealer they had the same table as i do set-up in their front sound room as you walk in the front door it's the first thing you see

and they have a pair of martian Logan's speakers and the TT in the middle the day i went back they had the same Vibration coming from the turntables tone arm as i do

And thats when we both found out that the rubber grommets under the transport were also still their and no one new about removing them

After they removed them the Vibration did get a lot less but you could still feel it when you touch the tonearm

i have tried the ground wire that was the first thing i did was to remove it to see if the Hum got louder and boy did it


Have you spoke with some one from Pro-Ject about the issue? I considering buying the Debut or the Rega RP1 but after hearing this and reading about issues with the RP1 tone arm ground wire and platter wobble, I think that I will pass.

[JohnMichael]

The Rega wobble I find an interesting subject. I also read about it in older Planar 2 & 3 turntables. It is often mentioned by people who are justifying their purchase of a machined subplatter. I purchased a machined subplatter not because I had any wobble but due to the slightly larger diameter to correct the slight 1% speed increase of the tables in this country.

I would not hesitate to purchase a Rega table. I think all companies have some production problems. I had a Thorens that was a rebadges ProJect and it needed repaired several times. My Rega is 16 years old and never needed repairs

[blackraven]

I am not putting down all Rega TT's, I am just saying that I think that I would pass on both the Pro-Ject Debut and the RP-1 after reading the problems that people have reported. I think that spending $200-300 more and buying a better table is the way to go.

[bob r]

this is the E-mail i sent them

message: i have just brought the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon table on April
12 / 2013
and have set it up it does sounds great but their is a loud Hum and when i turn on the power switch and touch the tone arm i feel it vibrating even when the power amp is off

and this is the reply

your e-mail has been forwarded to our distributor in your area for further reply.

Best regards


Alexander LIANOS
Export-/Salesmanager Assistance
__________________________________

[bob r]

Thank you

the salesman at the store is suggesting the RP-1 i have not done any home work on the RP-1

the Pro-Ject Debut i waited for over 3 months for it to come in only to be disappointed

i would be glad to spend another $200 $300 if the TT came with out a HUM

[blackraven]

Thank you

the salesman at the store is suggesting the RP-1 i have not done any home work on the RP-1

the Pro-Ject Debut i waited for over 3 months for it to come in only to be disappointed

i would be glad to spend another $200 $300 if the TT came with out a HUM


You might want to consider some Music Hall TT's although they are made by Pro-Ject. I can tell you that Roy Hall the owner of Music Hall responds to his emails usually with in 24hrs as I have emailed him before concerning my Music Hall 25.4cdp which is very well made.

Or maybe a Rega RP3

Music Hall MMF-5.1 Turntable. (http://www.needledoctor.com/Music-Hall-Turntable-MMF-5-1_2?sc=2&category=351)

Music Hall MMF-2.2 SPECIAL (http://www.needledoctor.com/Music-Hall-MMF-2-2-SPECIAL-TURNTABLE?sc=2&category=351)

Rega RP3 Turntable (http://www.needledoctor.com/Rega-RP3-Turntable?sc=2&category=353)

[bob r]

the Music Hall 5-1 @ $875 is a nice TT for sure and if it came with out a Hum in which am sure it does but it's two times the price of the Pro Ject which is @$400

But you are right i should of known better with the System i have i just think the salesman should of did a better job in guiding me because he knew the system i have

I have been going to that store for over 20 years and have brought all my Equipment from them but the salesmen have come and gone

my first real Speakers from them where the Polk S.D.A flagships and the NAD 7600 receiver with the NAD 2600 Amp Bridged and back then they where the most power you could get @3kilo watts of power and those Amps with the flagships where the whip.

i even worked and talked with Matthew Polk on the phone because the tweeters would blow and they would send me new one's by next day mail and i would call him back when they came in and he would tell me to turn the volume up.

but after a few times they changed the tweeters and wrapped the coil wires with sliver to handle the heat

Anyways back to the TT i did get a phone call from Sumiko and i told him the story
as i have posted above and they offered to send me another motor i would have to put it in myself or i could take it to the store and have them do it.

So i called the store yesterday and told them they gave me the choice to eater return the TT with a full money back because they don't have any more Table's in stock or i can keep using it until they get one inn and give them the month of May

When i was on the phone with Sumiko he told me that if i buy the next upgraded TT from Pro Ject i will be disappointed because they are coming out with a bran new line in June or July for right around $800 and i should wait

[blackraven]

I would return the TT, save some money and buy a better model. Consider buying from the Needle Doctor (http://www.needledoctor.com/) They are reputable and very helpful over the phone in picking out a TT.

Here are a few good deals on used TT's-

Music Hall MMF-5.1 great deal on 7 day old unit | Turntables | Bensalem, Pennsylvania 19020 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-music-hall-mmf-5-1-great-deal-on-7-day-old-unit-2013-04-18-analog-19020)

Rega P3-24 Turntable | Turntables | Louisville, Colorado 80027 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-rega-p3-24-turntable-2013-04-25-analog-80027)

Music Hall 5.1 Turntable - Priced to Sell | Turntables | Wake Forest, North Carolina 27587 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-music-hall-5-1-turntable-priced-to-sell-2013-04-22-analog-27587-wake-forest-nc)

[bob r]

Thank you so much for that Trip i could not believe that a TT could cost $150,000
WOW!

Now after reading these forum's and some others i'am really lost now.
Does anyone here think that the table maybe to close to the sub's? i would post pictures of my system if i knew how. As most can tell i am new to posting on any forum

[bob r]

When i was on the phone with Sumiko he told me that if i buy the next upgraded TT from Pro Ject i will be disappointed because they are coming out with a bran new line in June or July for right around $800 and i should wait

and these is why i am not sure of what i should do because if i knew for sure that another TT would not do the same thing i would buy it today

Thank you for Replying

[bob r]

I am thinking of just going ahead and buying another TT just to try and see if it will also Hum by putting it in the same place as the Pro ject is at

because i just don't want to move all of my equipment around nor do i want to unhook the sub's the room i have my system in is not a big room and their is no where else to set it up

i think i will call the needle Doc and tell him about this first as i have said the store has offered to let me keep and use the table until they can get a new one inn

i can't seam to enjoy even playing/spinning my LP'S because of the Hum i have tried for the last few days and after playing 1 or 2 records i just turn the hole system off i know the people here can understand how i feel most of my friends can't relate to what a nightmare it is for us that enjoy sound coming from our systems

[bob r]

update i did take the plater off to see if i could feel the motor mount and it also vibrates a lot
i have also read that theirs more people finding out the same as me it's a motor problem not the sub's

here is one of the other
You can feel the motor vibrate on the mounting board.

[02audionoob]

With regard to the screws that were removed -- they are not supposed to be removed. To remove them was the correct thing to do with the Debut III. With the Carbon, they're supposed to stay in. At least, that's per Pro-Ject's instructions.

That said, the problem obviously exists in many of these turntables, whether the screws are in or out. It's not feedback or the electrical phenomenon known as hum. It's motor vibration. These motors are the same among several models of Pro-Ject and Music Hall turntables, but cause an obvious vibration issue on only certain models. Since it's new, I'd probably return it, unless I could figure out a way to stabilize the motor.

[bob r]

Thanks 02audiono
I have put the screws and the rubber things back in and that seams to help a lot i mean 99.99%

[frenchmon]

BOB r...There is a fix. Its put out by Hensley Designs over in the HK. Look him up....of course, if you plain on taking the table back...that would be the logical thing to do. How much are you will to spend on a table? I've not heard about this problem on the lower end Music Hall tables....but have heard about them on the lower end Pro-Ject tables. The higher end of Pro-Ject seems to have no such issues.

[02audionoob]

Frenchmon - Henley's fix is for the Debut III. Bob's turntable is a Carbon.

[bob r]

They're supposed to stay in At least, that's per project's instructions.

i do agree, No where does it say that the screws are to be removed (per the instructions)
So then why did the salesman even remove them in the first place? I have not been back to the store nor have i called them cense they told me on the phone to hang loose.And to give them the month of May to get another turntable inn

[bob r]

When i was on the phone with Sumiko he told me that if i buy the next upgraded TT from Pro Ject i will be disappointed because they are coming out with a bran new line in June or July for right around $800 and i should wait

and this is why i am not sure of what i should do because if i knew for sure that another TT would not do the same thing i would buy it today

Thank you for Replying

has anyone heard of a new TT coming out by project in June or July at right around $800 dollars ? as per Jammie from Somiko has told me on the phone

[blackraven]

A brand new line does not always mean better. It usually means higher prices.

[bob r]

you are right the fix is for the Debut 111

[frenchmon]

Oh...my bad noob...I thought the only difference in the two was one has a carbon tone arm and different plater?

[02audionoob]

The Debut III has the motor hanging on a rubber ring, like Pro-Ject has been doing for a long time. The instructions were to remove the transport screws from the motor mount flanges.

With the Carbon, Pro-Ject put Sorbothane grommets under the motor mount flanges and screwed them down, with no instruction to remove the screws.

[bob r]

i agree with 02audiono and i was not the one that had remove them in the first place
if i would of order it from the needle doctor i would of had the TT way before the store did as i have said i did wait over 3 months just because i wanted to do business in my own city and to have the in person experience

I would of read the instruction and as you have stated they don't tell you to remove them

And now i am wondering if i have over tighten the screws so far i have only snugged them down so far in fear over tightening them
( keeping on the safe side)

i have sent them another E-mail and asked them to send me a new motor because on the phone they offered to do it and i will put it in maybe but i want to run it first to see if it feels better to the touch

i feel like this should of not happen and feel like i am on some kind of mission

Thanks to all that have replied to this Thread you all have helped me a lot

Peace from the front line's
Bob

[bob r]

Thanks to all of you they are going to send me another Motor so that i can put in in myself
do any one of you know how to do it or could somebody let me know How to?

thanks again

Bob

[02audionoob]

Check out this thread -

http://forums.audioreview.com/analog-room/mmf-5-back-action-34415.html

[bob r]

heres the update i have the new motor i have not put it in as of today had some other things to do

thanks for the link am sure it will help and it doesn't seam to hard at all the store had offered to do the work but i am going to Waite until the end of this month
to see what they may do about giving me a new table as they have said they would

[02audionoob]

The problem could perhaps be related to how the motor suspension is installed. I don't really know--just a possibility. If that turned out to be the case, having one professionally repaired might be better than new.

[allanc]

My first turntable in years, a new Pro-ject Debut Carbon, hums way too much. It is almost positively motor vibration. The hum occurs only when the stylus is touching the record, even with the belt removed (record not turning), and only when the motor is turned on. Lift the tone arm or turn off the motor and the hum goes away.

My dilemma is whether to reject the table as defective and send it back or to try some form of vibration fix. Also, maybe all tables of this make / model have the same problem and I should look for a refund rather than a replacement?

Can one of the experts give me some advice? Thanks!

[02audionoob]

My first turntable in years, a new Pro-ject Debut Carbon, hums way too much. It is almost positively motor vibration. The hum occurs only when the stylus is touching the record, even with the belt removed (record not turning), and only when the motor is turned on. Lift the tone arm or turn off the motor and the hum goes away.

My dilemma is whether to reject the table as defective and send it back or to try some form of vibration fix. Also, maybe all tables of this make / model have the same problem and I should look for a refund rather than a replacement?

Can one of the experts give me some advice? Thanks!

Ask the dealer if it is acceptable for you to attempt to fix it without voiding your return or warranty rights. Then before you return it, try adjusting how tightly the mounting flanges on the motor are screwed down. Adjust them so they barely compress the soft washers, and then try a little more tightening and a little less. If none of that works, adjust the screws around the suspension ring, to try to reduce how much the ring is contacting the deck. Maybe also try wedging a little piece of felt under the ring to change the tension of it. I've been wondering why some experience this and some don't.

[bob r]

Thanks you seam to always post replies that make a lot of sense i think the first thing i will do is run the motor alone or without mounting it to the TT (suspension)

It would be nice if the Store where i brought it from would be a little more helpful
and concerned as i have posted the TT they have hocked up and on display when you walk thought the front door still has the rubber things missing and the mounting screws out and you can surely fell the vibration when you touch the tone arm

Even after the salesman and his manager told me to put them back inn and putting them back really did help a lot it my opinion.

02audiono has maid some great points and somethings for us to think about and it's why i haven't done anything as of yet.

i do know one thing if they do what they say's and give me a new turntable i will unbox it at the store the first time i went in to buy the TT he did want me to take the TT they had on display saying it had only been playing for a few hours i would of never done that without a deep discount even then it would of had to be a Deep
one

I am one of what some may say (NUTS) about my Audio system and only a few have even touched the volume control most wouldn't know even how to turn the master power switch on because i have a PanaMax every thing powers up from that
with 3 second delays for the Amp's i will save the Questions i have for all of that in another Thread

back to the fix
I sure understand how allanc feels about his brand new TT because it was also my first TT in years and i waited over 3 months for the store to get them inn from
Pro-Ject.

i rushed home and begun playing my LP's i could even here the HUM/ noise in another room at that time i wasn't to worried because i knew it had to be the ground wire (easy fix) i thought

[bob r]

My Dilemma as well but i still think for the money it's still a great TT unless you have the money to upgrade but IMHO you would need to spend $200-$300 more

for me i would had to spend $1,000 dollars so another $600 and in that market you could get a very nice TT i just don't have the money

the Pro-ject Debut Carbon sounds great to me but that just may be because of the 2M Red for a little more then $100 you can't go wrong if money is the issue

allanc don't feel rained on we our only a few of many with the same problem it's all over the internet with people like us telling our story i am not bashing Pro-Ject

they do and have helped me if i where you i would send them a E-mail first letting them know

keep us all posted on what happens theirs lots of people here that will help

[02audionoob]

I would think running the motor without the belt or without the suspension ring would not be a good indication of how the motor will run when properly installed and stabilized by the ring and the belt. Those little motors are rather light, with a spinning magnet inside. It's no wonder (to me) they vibrate with the belt off.

[allanc]

I ran the turntable with the belt off as a debugging step trying to eliminate causes. Hum occurred with the belt on, too. I never did remove the suspension ring.

[allanc]

I've returned the table and am awaiting a replacement. I am almost certain that excessive motor vibration was the cause. I could hear it during the lead-in and during normal speech (first track of test record). It would stop just as soon as I lifted the stylus a tiny bit (likely not magnetic interference or electrical grounding as the causes) or turned off the motor (likely not table bearings since the table slowed but didn't immediately stop).

[02audionoob]

My reference to running it without the suspension ring was in reference to bob r's plan to run his new motor without installing it on the ring.

Based on the fact that by far the most common problem people have written about in the forums is a motor vibration issue, it makes perfect sense that it's the same problem with yours. It would be a shocker if it wasn't. I suspect it must be a somewhat delicate operation getting those motors set up right in the turntable factory, and perhaps some of their technicians are not doing it quite right -- just my guess.

[frenchmon]

My motor does not touch the plinth whatsoever. But yesterday I fired up my TT and what do I hear? A slight hum. Looked at my motor and it was touching the table. I then remembered I slightly moved the table and didn't notice it slid a little and touched the table. I move it back and hum completely silent. I wonder if they could detach the motor in the Debute completely from that table.

[bob r]

could you please tell me if the motor mount screws and or if the rubber things were removed by the dealer

In my case the dealer removed the two screws (they say where for shipping purpose ) and left the rubber things in place i have still not gotten a strait Answer from Sumiko weather or not the screws should have been removed and or the rubber things should of been removed

What they did say was witch ever way made less Vibration and at the Dealer their display TT the same one we both have the screws and the rubber things were out even after they told me to put them back in

as my other Reply say's they had already removed the two screws
the day i brought it home and left the rubber things in-place when i went back they told me to remove them
it would be very helpful to me and a lot of others that have the same problem if i knew what your dealer told you about your TT

1. Question did your dealer remove the motor mount screws before you left the store?
2. Did they also remove the two rubber things under the motor mount?
3. Did you contact Sumiko by E-mail or phone?

Thank you in advance
theirs so many people on the internet that would like to know

Did anyone tell you as they did me that theirs a new TT model coming out in June or July from them because they told me that if i wanted to trade up i would be disappointed by not waiting on the new model

[bob r]

Am sorry what part is the plinth? Is that the part with the long rubber O-Ring on it?
thanks

[02audionoob]

The confusion about the screws and the rubber washers most likely comes from the fact that the previous Debut did not have the rubber washers. It did have the screws and the instructions were to remove them when you set up the turntable. Removing the screws isolates the vibrating motor from the plinth.

The new design attempts to isolate the motor vibration from the plinth without removing the screws. That's what the rubber washers are for. If your dealer recommends removing the rubber washers, he either is wrong in his understanding of Pro-Ject's design and instructions or he disagrees with them.

Regarding frenchmon's suggestion that Pro-Ject might be able to completely detach the motor -- I think the Music Hall MMF-5 does a nice job of getting very close, while using the same motor.

[bob r]

I suspect it must be a somewhat delicate operation getting those motors set up right
And that is why i haven't tried doing it myself as of yet i am going to wait a few more days
Thanks for all your help so far

[frenchmon]

Bob r...so whats up with your table now?

[bob r]

Bob r...so whats up with your table now?


Thanks for asking

about two weeks ago i did call the store to ask them that same thing they told me
To come on inn we have a new Table for you so i packed the TT up and had it in the car

then they called back and said don't bring it inn because the new TT had came from the same batch as the one i have

so i brought it back inn and set it back up But something must have happen because now i get no Bass coming from the left channel of my M&K Sub i do have two Subs (M&K) at first i said something is not hocked up right

so i checked the wires again seamed OK so i then put the C.D player on and every thing worked just fine so i called them back and told them

they said thats just the way TT are but i had never noticed it before

as i understand it Bass has no left and right if thats true then why would the Sub work with a CD playing

when i play LP'S i can touch the driver of the sub and feel nothing from it (left channel) and the right channel is pumping just fine

Has anyone had this happen to them?

Maybe it was like that before i don't no

[allanc]

The saga continues for me, also. I've just received a replacement TT and will set it up in the next few days. What's this about the "same batch"? Is there someone that knows about a bad batch? If yes, how does one identify that they've got one of those? Good luck!

[bob r]

i was told by Sumiko on the phone that theirs a new line of TT coming out in June or early July and i should wait until then

But the store was the ones that told me about the same batch
thing but i think they are pulling my leg and only to delay more

[02audionoob]

I too was thinking the "bad batch" story might be a stall tactic. Of course, who knows what the truth is. Maybe they're ALL a bad batch. :)

[frenchmon]

Not that Xtention 10! Hopefully thats my next table!

Pro-Ject Xtension 10 Superpack Turntable System - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/turntables/turntables-reviews/pro-ject-xtension-10-superpack-turntable-system.html)

[allanc]

I've just finished setting up my replacement TT and guess what -- I still hear hum but not quite as loud as from the TT I returned. Still, it is clearly audible with the HiFiNews test record at normal listening volume. I've tried loosening the motor mounting screws (not yet all the way) but there is no real change.

So then, how much hum is too much? Any suggestions as to what might fix this? Think I should remove the screws entirely?

Thanks. Allan

[bob r]

Thanks
looks like a great TT but $3,000 Dollars i don't have if i did i would buy this TT

[bob r]

i am sure by now that you have removed the screws entirely as i have said a few pages back in this thread that is what the dealer/store did when i brought my TT

At that time i didn't know anything i figured the Dealer new how to set the TT up because they sell TT all day long and i buy one every 10 years My B&O was a great TT back in the day but i could not find parts to fix it i did take it to the repair shop first because i had two Cartridges MMC5 one i used for older LP and saved the other one for new LP

Anyways
Back to story i have sent E-mails to the needle Doc and to a lot of other dealers they have not heard of any new Line coming out from Pro-ject

[bob r]

I've just finished setting up my replacement TT and guess what -- I still hear hum but not quite as loud as from the TT I returned. Still, it is clearly audible with the HiFiNews test record at normal listening volume. I've tried loosening the motor mounting screws (not yet all the way) but there is no real change.

So then, how much hum is too much? Any suggestions as to what might fix this? Think I should remove the screws entirely?

Thanks. Allan

For me i have put the screws back in with the rubber gourmets also and it did help a lot
Can you touch the tone arm with the TT running (plater turning )and feel the vibration coming from it? i sure could and can still today
i have a new motor they sent me still i just may have someone put it in for me the Dealer told me they would do it but i am not sure if i trust them any more and they all know me at the store by my first name i have been going their for over 20 years and have brought many things their i was the first one to buy the 2 new NAD amps 2600 and the 7600 bridged together witch has 3 K of power LoL a lot of power.
i still have them but now use the ones from NAD the silver series S-100 witch are 250 watts/channel i have two of them one for each channel set up as mono

because of the SDA speakers and they need a common ground

[02audionoob]

Does the noise change if you back out the screws that hold the suspension ring?

[bob r]

i will try that and report back as soon as i can

[frenchmon]

Anyways
Back to story i have sent E-mails to the needle Doc and to a lot of other dealers they have not heard of any new Line coming out from Pro-ject

All I know is whats new releases at Henley designs.

Henley Designs (http://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/ui/support/Support-Category-List.aspx?BrandID=2)

Sumiko may be able to get them for you...as they are the US distributor. Call them up, you never know.

[bob r]

Up-date
My NAD Preamp is now in the repair shop after taking it there and a phone call from them saying that the phono Stag was fried

I had the optional plug-in MC/MM module installed when i brought it new some years ago it coverts one of the S100 line inputs into a high Quality phono input

I am not saying it was all the fault of the TT but i do feel as it may have been

I knew something was not right but when i called to Store to tell them that i was getting a lot of static while turning up the volume by touching the knob they blamed it on my carpet so i started using the remote but then when i had used the mute button on the remote i would here a loud POP sound all of the above would not take place when using my CD player (just saying) i know how my stereo supposed to sound

My question is would this be because of the the phono module being set up wrong as for the 2M red MM/MC seting?

[3db]

When i was on the phone with Sumiko he told me that if i buy the next upgraded TT from Pro Ject i will be disappointed because they are coming out with a bran new line in June or July for right around $800 and i should wait

and this is why i am not sure of what i should do because if i knew for sure that another TT would not do the same thing i would buy it today

Thank you for Replying

has anyone heard of a new TT coming out by project in June or July at right around $800 dollars ? as per Jammie from Somiko has told me on the phone

I have a ProJect Xpression III which listed last year as $799. It replaces my Xpression II which I lost in a flood. Both of these tables were very quiet with absolutely no hum or vibration. The III is an improvement over the II being even quieter.

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/bilder/xpression.jpg

[bob r]

if it Hum"s you have the bad batch IMHO

[02audionoob]

Bob - How is your turntable doing?

[bob r]

Bob - How is your turntable doing?
Thank you O2audio for asking it's a long story and i am not good at posting on forums but i will try

After putting the rubber things back under the motor mount and the screws the Hum did get a lot better

but then i was having issues with one channel (left channel) as i have said i have the polk audio SDA flag ships with two NAD
S200 Amp's witch i have set up as some would say Bi-Amp but it's really Vertical Bi-Amp
i am not sure if some would know the difference But i am sure you do and many others here as i also do

each one of my NAD Amp's run each speaker in another words one Amp runs the highs and the lows of each speaker as you can see in my avatar Picture those are the ones i have they are large with a total of 26 drivers 8 Mid's and 4 tweeters and one Pass in each speakers

before i moved to a new home i marked each wire with tags and took Pictures and video because i wanted to make sure things went back together the same way when hooking it back up

because when hooking them back up it does seam wrong when you have to take the left channel of your Amp and the right channel of the same Amp going to the left speaker

the speaker with 4 post in each two for the mid-range (+pos and - neg) and two for the highs and the left channel highs where not working at all when i would play my records (LP)so right away i thought i had something hooked up wrong but when i was playing CD every thing worked or sounded just great but i would play LP it wouldn't

i went back to the store many times and got no help at all one day the guy at the store when i called said bring it in and we can give you a new TT so i boxed it up put it in the car and then he called me back and said his boss told him not to give me a new TT

they would only say it had to be my Preamp so i sent it back to NAD to have it worked on( $278 dollars) i was OK with that because on some other forums people would say that things do good bad on older stuff so i thought that would be good to have it done even if i had to paid to have it all cleaned up

well i got it back from NAD and they told me that the phono Module was bad and they fixed it with this Pre-Amp you have to buy a separate dedicated Phono Module i was happy i had it done and when i got it back i hocked it back up and thought it was going to be fixed well it didn't fix anything so i called NAD and they said i could buy a new phono preamp from Por-Ject ($200) and hook it up to one of the Aux of the preamp so i did that and still it was the same thing as before no highs on the left channel at all (dead) no sound so then i brought a new stylus ($100) and if you can guess it was still the same no highs
so one day i called the store and told them again and the guy from the store came over to my house the main guy the (Manager) i stared off by playing my Cd's the first CD i played was the Dire Straits CD Brothers in Arms in witch we all know has a lot of highs for sure as it is a Full Digital Recording CD he tells me he couldn't here any highs coming from any of the speakers and that all my tweeters where blown (Yup he said it)

it was me being blown away of what he had said so then i put on a Maynard Ferguson CD ( Storm) and we know it's a lot of horns playing in that CD as well he told me the same thing it was my speaker you must keep in mine that this guy runs a well known audio store and had been their for 15 years or longer

So then i unhooked both bottoms of each speaker only having the highs playing so then he could here when i played CD you could here both speakers (tweeters) and then i put on a LP and guess what the left channel tweeters was out and then he said it had to be the cables i had all ready replaced them and had bran new ones at the ready he replaced them himself and guess what Waite for it

Same thing and then he began to tell me that some cables may not go into the socket all the way he says he had had that happen now and then and he would come back with his own cables at no charge for me he said Lol

I know this post may seam crazy to some here it does to me also but it's the truth every word

back to the story he came back Friday Sept, 6 with a bran new TT i left the speakers as they where and he hooked it up the TT and both speakers worked just fine i was so upset at this guy i told him not to touch any thing else and he could just leave i would do the rest and as he was getting into his car he began to tell me that i should watch my SDA speakers because he had heard a lot of bad stuff about them and many problems i told him how would you know you can't even HERE and you are the manager Lol i did say it

so the next day the first thing i did was to take off the plater and again wait for it Yup the rubber Sorbothanes Pads and screws where taken out of the motor mount and you could feel the vibration when you touch the mount of course you could

even after i had been back to the store many many times and showing them the E-mails i received from Sumiko telling me to leave them in and also asking them to show me in the Instruction book where is say's to remove them? at first i thought Oh no he took the bad TT with them in and i didn't have any in the box he came with and he was surely
not going to come back now after i got so upset at him but then i looked harder in the box and they where their thank god i put them in as they should be and played some Lp's
so the story is so far things our working and sounding GREAT

[bob r]

With the one i have one channel started dropping also but only the Highs dropped in that channel
unbelievable i know it has to be the cartage 2Mred or maybe the wires in the tone arm?

[02audionoob]

That experience is a little strange - that's for sure. And now your turntable sounds good? And the dealer still doesn't know it is quieter with the screws in. Weird. As long as you got it set up and sounding great, all's well that ends well. It kind of shows you someone can be in the business a long time and still just plain wrong.

[bob r]

I agree with you about all's well that ends well part i have only played 5 LP's so far.
And i understand this TT has a $400.00 price tag but i do feel bad that with everyone he sells this TT to they will also go thought the same things as i did 5 months of Hell.

Maybe some of all of this is my fault and maybe not the first day i brought the TT home and heard the Hum coming from it all the way in another room.

i called them and they told me to eater bring it back for a full refund or i could just keep playing and enjoying it (Lol) until they received new ones from Pro-Ject but when i called i was told by Sumiko on the phone that theirs a new line of TT coming out in June or early July and i should wait until then and i did have the Hum somewhat under control when i put the screws and the rubber things back under the motor mount
but I'm not sure if i was having the other issue at the same time or not because i was only focused on the Hum issue at the time
then after playing a few LP's thats when i found out the left channel speakers tweeter where not working at all i thought i must of had something hooked up wrong
i was banging my head against the wall taking every cable out of the system and starting over i kept saying Bob this is not rocket sciences.

And Bob your CD's our sounding just fine both speakers working great

But when i went back to the store and or called they would tell me things like Bob it's the way LP's our their different then CD's (LOL) as if i didn't know i would radder here a pop or crack-pop from an LP then here a CD skip in the middle of a great song

I know that i am somewhat Bitter and upset about this TT but i feel Sumiko was very helpful talking to me and by even sending me a new Motor

so i don't blame them at all but if they had not told me about a new TT coming out soon i would have taken the TT back and went somewhere else the other store that does sell this TT is about 50 miles away i would have drove their for sure

trying to figure out Why this was happening was a mistake on my part i guess but i was caught up into finding out the Why part Lol

Thanks to all here and i do feel that everyone here has been part of this

[bob r]

It is the Weirdest thing i have ever known for sure do you think it was the Cartage ?

[02audionoob]

My guess is the cartridge is a low possibility. I think the cables are an even lower possibility. I would've guessed it's the electronics, maybe an amp - the channel that runs the highs on the side that is out. Having something like that happen with the turntable and not the CD could've been luck, or maybe something to do with the weaker signal of a cartridge as compared to a CD player.

[bob r]

Thank you again
i did all of that i had even switch the amps and when the new TT was hooked up all was good
but now i am going to recheck it all again? or should i just levee well enough alone ?

[3db]

Glad you have it all ironed out. That ProJect dealer is a money grabbing moron to say the least. Both my ProJect tables have been running quiety from the get go.

[JoeE SP9]

Thank you again
i did all of that i had even switch the amps and when the new TT was hooked up all was good
but now i am going to recheck it all again? or should i just levee well enough alone ?

One of the things I've learned (the hard way) is, if it works, don't fix it.

[bob r]

My guess is the cartridge is a low possibility. I think the cables are an even lower possibility. I would've guessed it's the electronics, maybe an amp - the channel that runs the highs on the side that is out. Having something like that happen with the turntable and not the CD could've been luck, or maybe something to do with the weaker signal of a cartridge as compared to a CD player.

Thank you
The cartridge is the only thing i didn't replace how can it not be bad?
And the Amps where also switched out i went thought all of that i set my system up with only one amp at a time and even switched them out one at a time it took me sometime do it because i am disabled and can't walk around

I even have another system set up in my garage it is also NAD 2600 and the 7600 bridged with 5 Klipsch speakers.
i set it up their after i brought the new system i have now and as most here know the Klipsch
have horn's big time Lol

[bob r]

Great to here that i still have not called the store to ask what they found out was wrong because it would only be BS coming from them IMHO and i wouldn't believe them anyway
But i do want to know what was wrong with it

[bob r]

Glad you have it all ironed out. That ProJect dealer is a money grabbing moron to say the least. Both my ProJect tables have been running quiety from the get go.

Great to here that i still have not called the store to ask what they found out was wrong because it would only be BS coming from them IMHO and i wouldn't believe them anyway
But i do want to know what was wrong with it

[bob r]

Hello to all again

i have had some time now to play my LP's and i am glad about that

playing my system loud seams like there is some kind of feed back with the lid on and down covering the LP
does anyone think thats OK ?

[frenchmon]

You may be getting vibrations. Its always best to take it off.

[blackraven]

You may be getting vibrations. Its always best to take it off.

Ditto! The lid is supposed to be just a dust cover when the TT is not in use.

[bob r]

Thanks i have always heard that taking the dust cover off of the TT was best
it does seam like it's worst while playing my DBX LP recordings

i will do as you say

Thanks

[3db]

Thanks i have always heard that taking the dust cover off of the TT was best
it does seam like it's worst while playing my DBX LP recordings

i will do as you say

Thanks

If the lids adds feedback, then take it off. No harm done. In my setup, I have no feedback whatsoever whether the lid is up or down so I close my lid while listening to music. I got lucky I guess.

[bob r]

Thanks to all that did reply
What would someone do if they wanted to do an upgrade
1. a new Matt
2. Cables
3. record clamp
4. 2m Blue stylus

Thanks

[02audionoob]

I wouldn't clamp a record to a turntable that might have audible vibration. I tried clamping records on my MMF-5 a few years ago. It made a very slight improvement, but wasn't worth the trouble to me. I don't stop the platter between records.

Cables are easy on a Carbon, and don't have to be expensive. Just make sure you're careful about the capacitance of the cables you choose. Some cartridges can be sensitive to it.

A non-ferrous platter would allow you to try moving-coil cartridges. I put an aluminum platter from an Xpression on my wife's Debut III, and upgraded to a Dynavector 10x4 MKII that I had retipped. I also added a Rega mat, which was a little bit thicker.

I could see how an acrylic platter could be an upgrade to some people's ears. I would be a little concerned about the reduced mass as compared to the metal ones, but it might be worth considering.