Denon or HK with Paradigm?

[jasmit]

I'm building my first HT and have pretty much settled on Paradigm speakers -- Studio 40's for mains, CC-470 for center, SA-10R in-ceiling speakers for surrounds (no back or side walls in my great room); haven't decided on a sub yet. The Studio 40's are the best speakers I can afford among the ones I heard. Now I would like to select a receiver.

I've been lurking the audio forums and have auditioned a few. Based mainly on perceived build quality within those I can afford, I've narrowed the field down to two: Denon (either the AVR-1804 or the AVR-2803) or Harmon Kardon (AVR 330). I've been able to audition Denon with Paradigm and liked what I heard. I haven't been able to hear the HK but I've read more than a few comments about HK being too "warm" to go with Paradigms. Can this be true when reviews on the Studio 40's describe them as uncolored and transparent?

So, any objective opinions out there as to which of these two receiver(s) mate best with the Studio line of Paradigm? I'd really like to hear from those who have heard HK with Paradigm. Feel free to make other suggestions within my price range ($500 - $800) with the understanding that I'm not interested in used equipment. Thanks for your help.

[kexodusc]

I have a very similar setup to the one you are interested in buying...Studio 40's and 20's with a Studio CC. Personally, I preferred the H/K as far as sound quality went compared to Denon when I was testing out receivers on my speakers. My fiance liked the Denon better. To tell you the truth, they both sounded pretty darn good. However, I think Denon has a few more features than the comparably priced H/K's. I also belive the H/K's have more dynamic headroom (or reserve power, whatever) than Denon. Since the extra power was kind of not really needed for my listening levels, I think the Denon offered a better value (AVR-2803).
I ended up going with Yamaha's RX-V1400, to me it sounded the best. If you're looking to keep close to the $500 price range, I'd recommend the RX-V650 (or the HTR-5760, $399 phone order at J&R.com) and RX-V750. Plenty of power and features for you, but ultimately I think Yamaha's Parametric Acoustic Optimizer tool is a dynamite feature that significantly improves the sound quality of your system. This will undoubtedly make a far larger difference in sound quality than the differences you hear between receivers. I strongly suggest you consider Yamaha for this feature alone. Especially in your setup with ceiling speakers. YPAO might actually compensate for any acoustic problems you might have in your room.
I'd also suggest you take a look at Marantz, kind of ugly, but I thought they had a very nice sounding, feature packed receiver as well...can't remember the model number. I've had both Yamaha and Marantz receivers powering my speakers and I quite enjoyed them.

[Woochifer]

I doubt you'll hear a huge difference between those two receivers, at least in the basic decoding modes. Spend some time with both of them and decide based on which one you feel more comfortable with. The Paradigm Studio series is more demanding than their lower tier speakers, but they're still relatively forgiving on receivers.

In fact, when I was auditioning receivers, the differences between them were relatively narrow, especially compared to the variation you find when comparing speakers. Among the receivers in your price range, I think the one that will likely sound different is that aforementioned Yamaha because of the YPAO room calibration feature. Room acoustics and speakers are the two biggest variables in an audio system, and the YPAO at least partially accounts for the acoustics. By this time next year, probably all of the major receiver manufacturers will incorporate some form of parametric room calibration feature, but for now only Yamaha, Pioneer, and Denon (only with the new $1,300 AVR-3805) have that anywhere near your price range.

[agtpunx40]

does it have preouts? It doesn't say so on the j and r website. That seems like a pretty good deal though

[agtpunx40]

on a different forum I read that the htr series doesn not have the full YAPO feature. It seems the only one which actually has the parametric eq is the 5790, which is the same as the 1400. The rest of the htr series just does auto calibraiton. You wouldn't happen to know how much j and r is selling that for, do ya?

[kexodusc]

HTR-5760 has pre-outs...check Yamaha's website and look at the back panels or the download the user manual and you'll see....the 5750 and below do not.

[46minaudio]

I doubt you'll hear a huge difference between those two receivers, at least in the basic decoding modes. Spend some time with both of them and decide based on which one you feel more comfortable with. The Paradigm Studio series is more demanding than their lower tier speakers, but they're still relatively forgiving on receivers.

In fact, when I was auditioning receivers, the differences between them were relatively narrow, especially compared to the variation you find when comparing speakers. Among the receivers in your price range, I think the one that will likely sound different is that aforementioned Yamaha because of the YPAO room calibration feature. Room acoustics and speakers are the two biggest variables in an audio system, and the YPAO at least partially accounts for the acoustics. By this time next year, probably all of the major receiver manufacturers will incorporate some form of parametric room calibration feature, but for now only Yamaha, Pioneer, and Denon (only with the new $1,300 AVR-3805) have that anywhere near your price range.
I was going to write this but Woochifer was reading my mind and beat me to it..Also if you read many audio forums you will find Yamaha has very few QC issues,and most of these are failing to read the manual..

[kexodusc]

I've also read that only the RX-V1400/HTR-5790 and above have the Parametric equalization incorporated into YPAO. Another forum claimed that after contacting Yamaha, they were told that the YPAO features were the same and that the write-ups in the product literature were the only difference.
I only have the RX-V1400 and haven't seen any of the other units, so I can't tell you for certain. Still, the auto calibration, is better than nothing I suppose.

Personally, I'd be a little disappointed by Yamaha if this is true. They are implying that YPAO is the same across all the RX-V and HTR lines. This is the kind of marketing tactic I'd expect from a few other companies...no names. I guess business is business.

[jasmit]

Thanks to all who took the time to help out a newbie. I'd really like to hear from more folks who have heard the HK with the Paradigms.

Woochifer - You said that among the receivers mentioned (Denon, HK & Yamaha) that the one which would sound different was the Yamaha. How so? I know you suggested that I spend some time with the Denon and HK and I will attempt to do that, but for now, I think I can benefit from advice/input from audio enthusiasts like yourself.

[Woochifer]

Thanks to all who took the time to help out a newbie. I'd really like to hear from more folks who have heard the HK with the Paradigms.

Woochifer - You said that among the receivers mentioned (Denon, HK & Yamaha) that the one which would sound different was the Yamaha. How so? I know you suggested that I spend some time with the Denon and HK and I will attempt to do that, but for now, I think I can benefit from advice/input from audio enthusiasts like yourself.

I wouldn't get too obsessive about the differences between a Denon or h/k receiver. What you really SHOULD obsess about is getting the speaker placement and the setup done correctly. A test DVD like the Sound & Vision Home Theater Setup disc, a SPL meter from Radio Shack, and some time to familiarize yourself with the various receiver functions, will make a far bigger difference than whatever difference exists between those receivers.

The room calibration function on the Yamaha goes beyond the normal decoding and amplification capabilities, which in my listenings have been very similar between comparably priced receivers. The YPAO room calibration sets up a parametric equalization filter for each of the seven channels in order to address the effect that room acoustics have on the tonal characteristics of each speaker. This type of equalization can make big changes to the tonal characteristics of the signal, and is very audible. The proper use of an equalizer is not as a glorified tone control, but as a means by which to make the tonal response as flat as possible and compensate for any variations that are caused by the room acoustics.

Read my post again -- the two biggest variables in an audio system are the speakers and the room acoustics. Differences between amps/receivers, and digital front end sources are far smaller. The YPAO partially addresses the acoustic variations between different rooms, which is why it will make a bigger difference than anything having to do with the basic decoding and amplification capabilities. Because similarly priced receivers typically have relatively small differences in the decoding capabilities and sound quality, something like the YPAO can be a difference maker and put competing models at a significant disadvantage in a same-room comparison. That's why this type of feature was just introduced by Denon and will soon appear on other new receivers as well.

[jasmit]

Thanks Woochifer for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation. It's certainly more food for thought in the process of choosing a system.

[poneal]

I prefer the HK over Denon. I personally have the older model HK 320 and have been happy with its performance. When I was searching for a receiver, I tested HK, Onkyo, and Denon. Denon ened up last on my list. I also own an older Yamaha that sounds like the Denon. Im not sure about the newer 1400 and 2400 yammies, but I can say that my HK sounds better than my older yammie. I personally felt the HK had greater bass impact than the Denon was concerned. The Onkyo had nice bass impact too, but I liked the features and look of the HK better.

[jasmit]

Thanks poneal. What speakers did you audition the three receivers with? Were they all different? What speakers do you have now? Do you think that the speakers made much of a difference with respect to how the three receivers sounded?