New, mid-price Schiitt Bifrost DAC on the way

[Feanor]

Fair well to el Cheapo DACs for now. I'm stepping up to a (lower) mid-price DAC, the Schiit Audio BIFROST DAC, (see HERE (http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7)).

http://schiit.com/cart/images/bifrost_05.jpg
http://schiit.com/cart/images/bifrost_06.jpg

I was impressed with reviews and with comments by AA "Inmates". This DAC has the following features:


Cute name
Made in the USA
Non-upsampling / sample rate conversion
Up to 24 bit / 192 kHz
Upgradeable design
High-end AKM4399 32 bit DAC chip
Class A, no-feedback, discrete FET (opamp-less), output
S/PDIF input via CS8416 receiver
(Optional, which I got) USB input via C-Media CM6631 asynchronous receiver that will work up to 24/192 with the custom driver Schiit will supply.


Of all the technical junk, I was least impressed by the CS8416 S/PDIF receiver which is a pretty standard, low cost device; that's partly why I added the optional USB with its asynchronous receiver.

I will report further in a couple of weeks.

[filecat13]

Great! Looking forward to your experience. Good luck with it. :)

[E-Stat]

Fair well to el Cheapo DACs for now. I'm stepping up to (lower) mid-price DAC, the Schiit Audio BIFROST DAC
I've also read a number of good reports of the Bifrost. The Squeezebox Touch also uses an AKM chip. although it is the 4420 with a built in buffer stage used for output - instead of a separate op amp.

Maybe that will truly be your burning bridge to Asgard, er digital happiness via some good Schiit. :)

[Feanor]

I've also read a number of good reports of the Bifrost. The Squeezebox Touch also uses an AKM chip. although it is the 4420 with a built in buffer stage used for output - instead of a separate op amp.

Maybe that will truly be your burning bridge to Asgard, er digital happiness via some good Schiit. :)
So maybe I get some insight in to the virtues of discrete vs. opamp analog. I see the design has an RFI/EMF filter on the AC input which has to be a good thing.

I also note the 5 year warranty.

[E-Stat]

So maybe I get some insight in to the virtues of discrete vs. opamp analog. I see the design has an RFI/EMF filter on the AC input which has to be a good thing.
Indeed. My current ARC DAC (also using JFETs) fares better than the op amp driven GamuT that preceded it.

[blackraven]

Nice pick up. People really like the Schiitt DAC's from what I have read. The new Van Alstine DAC's don't use op amps like this unit. I am looking forward to your review!

[lewburgh]

I talked with a guy from audio advisor that spoke highly of Schiitt tube headphone amps. Anyone used there headphone amps?

[blackraven]

Feanor, how about giving us a review of the Bitfrost!

[Feanor]

Feanor, how about giving us a review of the Bitfrost!
Will do within a few days of receiving it. Presently it's still en route in no-man's-land between the USPS and Canada Post. What is a trifle disappointing is that Schiit took from Feb.27 when I placed the order to Mar.06 to physically hand it over to the USPS.

[Feanor]

My Schiit has arrived!!

I have hooked it up the Bifrost and down loaded the custom driver for <96kHz files. So far I've done only a little listening to the USB interface but it works including for 24/192. I have yet to try the coax and optical.

Likely the unit will benefit from more burn-in than the 2 hours it's had so far, but these are my initial impressions:

Resolution is as good as I've heard
"Musicality" is on a par with the Schiit Modi I discussed recently, i.e. highs are less shrill than the SMSL DAC I was using 'till recently
Microdynamics (or PRaT if you prefer), is stronger than what I've heard and/or it's a bit forward and/or it's just that the voltage output of the unit is higher (which is true) -- I'm hoping that better microdynamics is what I'm actually hearing.

[blackraven]

Sounds like you have a winner there! Post a review when it is burned in. Congrats!

[E-Stat]

Good deal. I'm sure you'll be spending some quality time with your music this weekend.

I leave my SS DAC powered up 24/7.

[Feanor]

Good deal. I'm sure you'll be spending some quality time with your music this weekend.

I leave my SS DAC powered up 24/7.
So do I, though the Bifrost has a rear on/off switch for the ecofreaks.

My old Assemblage 1.5 DAC didn't even have an on/off. I think I'll haul out that old, 20-bit "ladder" DAC for comparison with the Bifrost though it won't do hi-rez except for decoded HDCD, (20-bit I think).

[Feanor]

Early post-initial impressions.

I'll observe that I've had seven DACs, (nine including CDPs), over the last 5-6 years so I have a far basis of comparison -- although all have been cheap to lower mid-priced devices. Most noteworthy of the others are:


Assemblage 1.5 20-bit "ladder" DAC with HDCD decoding
SMSL SD-1955
Schiit Modi.


All my listening has been to computer files using Foobar2000 via my Jolida passive preamp to my Class D Audio SDS-258 amp. I might note that the amp is clean and quite grain-free but rather austere or some might say "sterile", and quite unforgiving of upstream faults including the recording. Burn-in at this point is about 6 hours. I have tried both the USB and S/PDIF coax inputs: both work at 192kHz and have pretty much an identical character.

Bifrost characteristics, (relative to my other DACs):


Really great PRaT, (microdynamics)
Relatively full, robust, but somewhat forward midrange
Very good resolution & transparency
Very good depth & width of soundstage


Bifrost relative to specific DACs:


vs. Assemblage 1.5: Distinctly fuller midrange -- the Assemblage is rather "thin". Generally better in the characteristics above
vs. SMSL SD-1955: Lacks the shrill top highs of the SMSL; generally better as above
vs. Schiit Modi: extended highs vs. Modi's very slighly rolled off highs; stronger PRaT; generally better as above except about equal for midrange fullness.


So far the Bifrost looks like a keeper. If there is a weakness, it's the somewhat forward midrange presentation. Great PRaT is probably the single most notable favorable quality.

But BTW, the Schiit Modi is remarkably appealing & listenable DAC at a much lower price, and recommend it strongly for anybody with a limited budget and only needing a USB interface

[E-Stat]

Sounds like a winner. Honestly, Inexpensive DACs are getting so much better. While the trusty Touch w/linear isn't as transparent as the Audio Research, its sins are largely of omission. Which, BTW is the topic of an editorial in the current TAS.

Right now I'm really enjoying listening to the garage system outdoors in the 80 degree weather in jeans, T-shirt and flops. :)

Oh, slightly belated happy birthday! Mine is one week after yours.

[Feanor]

Sounds like a winner. Honestly, Inexpensive DACs are getting so much better. While the trusty Touch w/linear isn't as transparent as the Audio Research, its sins are largely of omission. Which, BTW is the topic of an editorial in the current TAS.

Right now I'm really enjoying listening to the garage system outdoors in the 80 degree weather in jeans, T-shirt and flops. :)

Oh, slightly belated happy birthday! Mine is one week after yours.
Thanks for the good wishes, Ralph.

[blackraven]

What's PRaT?


Pace, Rhythm and Timing

[Feanor]

Further impressions =>

Now with >25 hours of burn-in the unit should now be stabilizing. My early impressions are confirmed and enhanced ...


...
Bifrost characteristics, (relative to my other DACs):


Really great PRaT, (microdynamics)
Relatively full, robust, but somewhat forward midrange
Very good resolution & transparency
Very good depth & width of soundstage ...


Actually the positive above were understated. What I'm hearing is more palpable instruments and voices, more like real performers in a real space. Furthermore the stronger dynamics/PRaT have made percussions sounds, including piano, virtually a new experience.

This is well beyond my expectations -- it's the stuff of audiophile delight. I know it's a cliché but almost like hearing my recordings for the first time.
:15::15::15:

I note that my "early post-initial" impressions were mostly established using the S/PDIF interface; shortly after my earlier post I switch to the USB interface and I'm pretty sure I am hearing sweeter, more transparent highs and maybe less obtrusive midrange forwardness.

I suspect my better result with USB is more than burn-in because I noticed it immediately when I switched over. The reason might be just that my S/PDIF cable is too long: it's 30 feet, and while S/PDIF cables should be longer than 1.5 m (~6 ft) according to techno-pundits, they should ideally be shorter than 12 ft. In any case the Schiit's custom USB driver is highly effective

[blackraven]

Glad to hear you are enjoying it. It is always gratifying when a new piece of kit works out.

[Feanor]

Glad to hear you are enjoying it. It is always gratifying when a new piece of kit works out.
Thanks; yes, like I said, this is what the audiophile experience is all about.

My expectations were exceed though not necessarily in the way I expected. Having tried Schiit's much lower priced MODI and enjoyed its smoother, slightly fuller-bodied presentation, I expected the BIFROST to be more of the same. Instead the BIFROST is neutral and doesn't cloak the upstream nasties the way MODI does to some extent. Rather, as indicated, its strengths are transparency and PRaT, (though it's a bit fuller-bodied than my other, older DACs).

I'm also glad to note the my Class D Audio SDS-258 amp and my Magneplanar speakers are able to convey, and not cloak, the superior qualities of the BIFROST. On that point, my opinion is the Class D Audio amp remains that it is a garbage in => garbage out, quality in => quality out device.

[blackraven]

Thanks; yes, like I said, this is what the audiophile experience is all about.


I'm also glad to note the my Class D Audio SDS-258 amp and my Magneplanar speakers are able to convey, and not cloak, the superior qualities of the BIFROST. On that point, my opinion is the Class D Audio amp remains that it is a garbage in => garbage out, quality in => quality out device.

I really like my Class D Audio CDA-254 amp. They are quality amps and as you say, they convey the quality of music that is put into them. For the money, there is no amp that compares. They are not perfect, leaning a little to the bright side but paired with the right gear they are stellar amps.

Does the Bitfrost tame some of the brightness of the amp? My GF DAC-11 with the tube upgrade did this for me and took the sound of my MMG's to a new level of sound quality and enjoyment.

[Feanor]

I really like my Class D Audio CDA-254 amp. They are quality amps and as you say, they convey the quality of music that is put into them. For the money, there is no amp that compares. They are not perfect, leaning a little to the bright side but paired with the right gear they are stellar amps.

Does the Bitfrost tame some of the brightness of the amp? My GF DAC-11 with the tube upgrade did this for me and took the sound of my MMG's to a new level of sound quality and enjoyment.
Succinctly, no, the Bifrost does nothing to tame, cloak, hide, mask, or mitigate the class D brightness: it's tonally very neutral. I guess if want to do that you're going to need a different amp or a tube preamp, tube buffer, or the like.

Personally I could loose some of the brightness, but not at the expense of loosing transparency, detail, or dynamics.

[blackraven]

Feanor, I was just on the AC forum reading in the planar circle about a guy who decided to try a Peach Tree Nova integrated amp/dac combo with his Magnepan 3.7's. He loves the sound. I did not know this but the Nova has a built in tube preamp using 6N1P tubes that AVA.hifi use to use. PT did this to tame the version 2 Class D Audio Amps that it puts in the Nova.

Is Peachtree Audio Full of It? (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115197.0)

[Feanor]

Feanor, I was just on the AC forum reading in the planar circle about a guy who decided to try a Peach Tree Nova integrated amp/dac combo with his Magnepan 3.7's. He loves the sound. I did not know this but the Nova has a built in tube preamp using 6N1P tubes that AVA.hifi use to use. PT did this to tame the version 2 Class D Audio Amps that it puts in the Nova.

Is Peachtree Audio Full of It? (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115197.0)
That's interesting. Their 'nova125 (http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/nova125-amplifier-with-dac.html)' integrated looks like a great deal combining Sabre DAC, tube-buffered preamp, and 125wpc class D power amp for MSRP $1499.

On the other hand much less of a deal is Peachtree's 220 (http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/peachtree220-power-amplifier.html) power amp that looks suspiciously like Class D Audio's SDS-440CS (http://classdaudio.com/audio-amplifiers/sds-440cs.html) amp -- except 2x the price !!!

I'll repeat what I've said on several occasions: these Class D Audio amps, (I have an SDS model), sound just fine with really good recordings -- it's the crappy recordings and/or poor associated equipment that makes them sound bad. I say this again with emphasis now that i have the BIFROST, which for its part, is neutral but provides superior transparency & PRaT.

I suspect the same garbage in/out, quality in/out principle applies to various other class D makes as well as A/B solid states like Bryston or Krell that are so often maligned by many audiophiles.

Also, I'm sticking with my hypothesis that injecting a little 2nd order harmonic distorion into a system can mask nasties from recording or other components, whether this is done with a tube DAC, standalone tube buffer, tube preamp, a tube power amp -- or may be any decent s/s amp with zero or minimum negative feedback. (Hello, Pass Labs.)

[blackraven]

I certainly agree with your point about tubes injecting some harmonics or distortion. But if the end result is a more pleasing or likable sound then it is a non issue. With my hybrid tube gear, I have many different tubes that have different sound. Some certainly have a more detailed and resolving sound while others have an overly warm and smoothed over sound with less detail, especially in the high frequencies. But I have found tubes that offer the best of both worlds, removing any high frequency harshness and giving me a neutral to slightly warm sound that greatly appeals to me with out loosing detail and resolution.

[Feanor]

I certainly agree with your point about tubes injecting some harmonics or distortion. But if the end result is a more pleasing or likable sound then it is a non issue. With my hybrid tube gear, I have many different tubes that have different sound. Some certainly have a more detailed and resolving sound while others have an overly warm and smoothed over sound with less detail, especially in the high frequencies. But I have found tubes that offer the best of both worlds, removing any high frequency harshness and giving me a neutral to slightly warm sound that greatly appeals to me with out loosing detail and resolution.
At one time I was an adamant "accuracy" advocate but I've a evolved a bit towards the euphonic point of view. No, nothing wrong with ameliorating harshness or adding a little romantic warmth or ambience it that increases you musical enjoyment.

I'd like to experiment with tubes myself, cash funds being the big constraint. I'd like to try a tube power amp of at least 60wpc for my Magneplanars. AbeCollins over at AA, an amplifier guru if ever there was one, has recently become an advocate for the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum integrated with K120 tubes that's good for 100wpc. I love to try that or the corresponding power amp, the Atlas Magnum ...

http://www.rogueaudio.com/images/enlarged/AtlasFront.jpg

[LeRoy]

Feanor, congrats on the new Schitt. Is the optical link on the unit an input or output connection?

[Feanor]

Feanor, congrats on the new Schitt. Is the optical link on the unit an input or output connection?
The optical link is an input; the only outputs are the analog L+R pair.

I'm still highly impressed with the Bifrost. The transparency and dynamics are well beyond expectation. However if you are looking for something that will "tame" a shrill or raunchy amp, this ain't it.

[LeRoy]

Bill, thanks for the insight on the Bifrost. Recently, a buddy loaned me his Vincent DAC-1 to review. The Vincent has only 3 inputs, Coax,Toslink, and USB. Regardless of which input I used the unit has a loud clicking relay switch and it goes off at the start and end of EVERY track. My G.F. Dac-11 also has a clicking relay with the digital inputs but only clicks when the disc is loading and when the push play button is pressed but no clicking the rest of the way.

Does the Bifrost DAC have any clicking going on?

[Feanor]

Bill, thanks for the insight on the Bifrost. Recently, I a buddy loaned me his Vincent DAC-1 to review. The Vincent has only 3 inputs, Coax,Toslink, and USB. Regardless of which input it used the unit has a loud clicking relay switch and it goes off at the start and end of EVERY track. My G.F. Dac-11 also has a clicking relay with the digital inputs but only clicks when the disc is loading and when the push play button is pressed but no clicking the rest of the way.

Does the Bifrost DAC have any clicking going on?
I haven't heard anything from the Bifrost the resembles the Vincent behaviour. I seems to recall the Bifrost gives off a very soft click when it first starts of 24/192 files, but not every file, and again when it starts to play files of 24/96 or lower rez. I haven't yet tried a CDP as source so I'm not sure what would happen it that case.

[LeRoy]

Bill, thanks again for the insight to the Bifrost DAC. I am trying to find evidence of a possible new design trend whereby clicking relays are the norm.

[Feanor]

My Bifrost is currently back at Schiit Audio being fitted with the Uber Analog upgrade -- I can't hardly wait to get it back since I'm having to make do with my previous, cheapo SMSL SD-1955, which while great for $60, ain't in the same league as the Bifrost. (See my concurrent post about rolling opamps in the SD-1955 HERE (http://forums.audioreview.com/digital-domain-computer-audio/cheap-dac-working-well-36580-post395600.html#post395600).)

The Bifrost, both standard and upgraded versions, are reviewed in the August '13 Stereophile by Jon Iverson. Iverson said, "the Biforst has the highest ratio of value to price of any product I've reviewed".

[harley .guy07]

Now that's the Schiit (I know corny). But I have also heard great things about the Shiit products and Paul McGowan of PS Audio just wrote a piece about Schiit products and how good they are for the money and he knows the guys that started the company. I believe it is Jason Stoddard from Sumo, and Mike Moffat of Theta so Schiit has a good pedigree. I would have probably looked at them as a possible product back when I bought My PS Audio Digilink 3 but after buying that piece then trading it in for the NuWave I love the PS Audio sound. But would love to hear the Schiit and see how it compares to some of the other dacs out there under 1k. I really like the option to change out the USB card on the dac so if things change or you want to add another capability to it later they might offer another USB card so that can be done. And I like the ability to do upgrades to it as well.

[Feanor]

.... I really like the option to change out the USB card on the dac so if things change or you want to add another capability to it later they might offer another USB card so that can be done. And I like the ability to do upgrades to it as well.
In fact they are (already) offering in a USB upgrade for the Bifrost and the Gungnir DACs.

The only improvement they mention is the ability to handle 176.2 kHz sampling rate. I don't have any music that rate. I did get the original USB with my Bifrost and it works very well, plus I generally use S/PDIF coax, so I won't be upgrading.

[Feanor]

Bifrost now UPGRADED to Uber Analog!

I sent my Bifrost to Schiit Audio for their recent Uber Analog upgrade, $100 installed (plus shipping). You can order the board and install it yourself for $70, but I think the small extra charge & shipping cost is worth it. See HERE (http://schiit.com/products/bifrost).

The Uber Analog is the single-ended version of the analog section of the higher-priced Gungnir DAC. It's all descrete and without capacitors in the signal path. I'm pleased with the results and recommend it although the improvement over the base version is fairly subtle. The character of the sound remains the same, i.e. excellent transparency and PRaT, but no tube-type warming.

Sterephile recently review the Bifrost and Bifrost Uber, see HERE (http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-da-processor). John Iverson, the reviewer said, "Regardless of price, the Schiit Bifrost is a carefully designed and beautifully built DAC. I can see its appeal. In fact, the Bifrost has the highest ratio of value to price of any product I've reviewed.".

[Feanor]

Some time ago I upgraded Schiit Audio Bifrost from the base version to 'Uber analog' version, now I'll be upgrading to the 'Multibit' version.

Schiit Audio has been as good as its hype about providing upgradability. E.g. the Bifrost upgradability has permitted:

USB to be added via a card
USB to be upgraded via newer, different card
the 'Uber' analog section upgrade
more recently, a '4490' DAC and analog upgrade
and now the 'Multibit' upgrade.


The 'Multibit' upgrade replaces the previous DAC and analog section with Schiit's new, proprietary "closed-form filtering" DSP and "multi-bit", a.k.a. "ladder" or R-2R DACs and, as well, a new analog section. Multibit was first introduced in Schiit's top-of-the-line Yggdrasil model, ($2300). Trickle-down then happened to the Gungnir model whose older version is upgradable for $500, and finally to the Bifrost for $250. Not surprisingly, the lower models' upgrades are less extreme in terms of the components used.

Unfortunately none of these Schiit models does DSD, a format that I guess is inherently incompatible with R-2R DACs.

The Bifrost with 'Multibit' card, which includes DSP, DAC, and analog section: the 'Multibit' card is the daughter board on the right-hand side ...

http://schiit.com/public/upload/general/bifrost-multibit-1920.jpg

[Feanor]

My Bifrost Multibit upgrade arrived yesterday and is installed, though I had problems with the new C-Media USB driver. It's been 'On' for >24 hours and played for abut 6 hours.

The upgrade includes a new analog section as well as the new DSP and DAC. My main impression at this point is that it delivers a significantly, (not to say giganticly), better resolution. This translates into not just more "detail", but more spatial information, firmer imaging, more define instrument decays, and sweetness in the mid-range and highs. I think the deep bass might be a bit improved too.

[blackraven]

Congrat's on the upgrade!

[Feanor]

Congrat's on the upgrade!

Thanks!

While I wouldn't assume that the Bifrost Multibit is close to much higher price DACs, (such as you Luxman), I do think it's a bargain. I considered going to the Schiit's Gungnir Multibit that's US$1250, the weak Canadian dollar put the kibosh on that for me. For the well-heeled Schiit's Yggdrasil ought to be considered based on my experience with the Bifrost Multibit.

It's interesting to hear what better components can do to improve no-so-good recordings. Great recordings sound greater, but the mediocre sound even more surprisingly better -- harshness reduced, new spatial detail revealed, and instruments and voices separated from each other. Of course, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's tail", as my grandmother used to say, but I have various CDs e.g. from the mid-'80s that were unlistenable through my Techinics CD player and Phase Linear 400 amp that have become quite enjoyable today.

[blackraven]

Now all you need is a Regen to take it to the next level-better clarity, detail, bass and dynamics. Well worth the money and then some.

[Feanor]

Now all you need is a Regen to take it to the next level-better clarity, detail, bass and dynamics. Well worth the money and then some.

Thanks for the tip.

Presently I'm using a Schiit Wyrd ahead of the Schiit Bifrost, which, by most accounts is effective if not quite as effect as the Regen. I have also tried the AudioQuest Jitterbug: (1) Jitterbug => Bifrost, (2) Jitterbug =>Wyrd => Bifrost, (3) Jitterbug in parallel with the DAC connection, and of course (4) no Jitterbug

I haven't done close AB comparisons with each of these combos, but I haven't heard a noticeable differences in casual listening. (I'm not insisting that there IS not difference or that I might not hear some under different circumstances.) In my experience "mileage may differ" using noise and vibration reducing tweaks.. Right now I'm disinclined to pop another Cdn$250 on the Regen.

In case of the Jitterbug I have found that it prevents me from playing hi-rez files on the Bifrost -- Foobar tells me the my device won't play 24/88.2 or 24/96; without the Jitterbug these file play well. Also the Jitterbug prevents Windows from recognizing my SMSL DAC I use ahead of my Schiit Asgard 2 headphone amp. At this point, in my case, the Jitterbug is a waste of money, albeit not all that much money.

[blackraven]

You should be able to sell the JB. It works fine with Hi-Rez in my system but it accentuates sybilants. It makes a nice improvement in my son's system with the AQ Dragon Fly DAC though

[Feanor]

After about 30 hours of listening I can affirm that my expectation for the Bifrost Multibit have been met or exceeded.

Early reviews of Schiit's top of the line Yggdrasil DAC indicated that this DAC was exceptionally revealing. In accord with that, if not not necessarily to the same degree as the much pricier model, the Bifrost Multibit is certainly a most revealing, precise, and detailed in the best sense, DAC.

I don't often listen to my small Jazz collection but I did tonight, including a 24/192 version of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue album from HD Tracks. I was struck by how the characteristics of individual instruments were remarkably well define beyond anything I'd heard. Instruments were precisely and stably placed n the soundstage and well separated from each other. The soundstage itself was wide and deep but not necessarily to an unprecedented degree. The microdynamic potential of the recordings seemed totally achieved; percussion if all types and the betimes piercing sound of brass instruments was very intense. Jaw-dropping for me was the reproduction of cymbals, (an instrument that can sound dull and defuse on recordings); emphatically their distinctive crisp, shimmering sound was far more realistic that I've heard heretofore.

I can very strongly recommend that anybody looking for a DAC under $1k give the Bifrost Multibit a through check-out. Mind you, it isn't necessarily for everyone. The powerful dynamics and relentless differentiation of instruments precludes any description along the lines "warm" or "mellow". Conceivably on entry-level systems it might sound bright or dry, but these terms don't apply on my system I'm glad to say.