Free... At last!

[StevenSurprenant]

For years I was cursed with the audio disease. I scoured audio magazines reading the amazing stories of how pristine, how closer to nirvana each new iteration of audio gear came. I traveled the highways searching for audio shops that carried this miraculous gear, gear that the magazines promised to satisfy every nuance of my souls desires. Sometimes my search would lead to disappointment and at other times, I would be treated to a sound so soothing that my body would slump into a catatonic state and there I stayed, motionless, until the song ended and reality, once more,drifted into my conscientiousness. Quickly I would start another song and sink back in my chair to be subdued by this magic, but each time I did, the nirvana, the satisfaction, would take a little longer to mesmerize me. After a time, I would lift myself out of my chair confused, unsure of what I experienced and even more unsure of myself. I would wander around the store trying to clear my mind,trying to make sense of what I just experienced. Perhaps an hour would pass, maybe more, but eventually I would find my way to the door leading home knowing in my mind that the next issue of “Audio Whatever” would hold the answer to my seeming never ending search.


Years would pass, new gear would find it way onto my audio rack, and for a while each piece calmed my nerves and brought me a little closer to my minds eye of heaven, but never quite reaching it, and never for long. My search continued and my attempts were only moderated by my wallet. Five years would pass, then ten, followed by even more years. On some days, my stereo would assault me with the most horrific sound. It didn't make sense, but there it was, harsh and unbearable. Not caring how or why, I would grab my car keys and drive as quickly as possible the closest audio store with top of the line gear. After firing up their finest gear,it would only take a moment to realize that my gear sounded like it always did. It was me that changed, perhaps a mood or a state of mind, but whatever it was, it might just as well been real. Thankfully it would pass and the sweetness and purity would return to my ears.


When I wasn't listening or searching, I would spend my time on audio blog sites talking about it. Obsession is too mild of a word for what drove me, a better word would be fanaticism. As is the nature of any dedicated blog page, arguments ensued, names were called, and feelings were hurt, and often a foot or two would find its way to the pie hole. Most posters were good people, people that only wanted to talk about their common interest and perhaps help someone in the process. Then there were the“Others”, so absolute in their beliefs and opinions that nothing else mattered. Respect and dignity for others were of no importance, it was their “Duty” in life to make sure no-one stray off the path of what they they believed to be true. These people, even though their intentions might have been honorable, sucked the life and enjoyment out of the hobby with their never ending consternation. I suppose that's part of the trials and tribulations of any social endeavor, the price we pay.


All these years of searching, throwing money out the window on new gear, and listening to bigoted self righteous self appointed experts takes it toll. And still, after it's all said a done, the holy grail of audio still remains elusive.


I didn't come out of this empty handed. I have what I consider a very nice audio system and the years of pure bliss that came from the hopeful expectations of my search is irreplaceable. The joy that I received was not in the attainment of my quest, but rather from traveling the path towards that end. I have learned that the perfect system does not exist and even if it did, people like us will never be satisfied. Because of this epiphany, I have learned to enjoy and relish what I have and not lament about what could be.


Through all these years, fanatics, like myself, reached out to help me, guiding me through some crucial decisions, and no words can express the gratitude that I feel. All I can say is thank you, one and all, here at audioreview and throughout my travels.


With that said, I'm not going away and I do drop in from time to time.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Then there were the“Others”, so absolute in their beliefs and opinions that nothing else mattered. Respect and dignity for others were of no importance, it was their “Duty” in life to make sure no-one stray off the path of what they they believed to be true. These people, even though their intentions might have been honorable, sucked the life and enjoyment out of the hobby with their never ending consternation.

I am going to respond only to this part of this silly manifesto. When it comes to hometheater, there are standards firmly in place to ensure a pretty darn close translation of the reproduction from the mixing stage, to the reproduction in our homes. The further you stray from those standards, the more reproduction problems you will have. When one complains about the dynamic range or dialog intelligibility of a soundtrack on film, A mixing engineer would first ask what is wrong with YOUR system, because the dynamic range and dialog in the theater, and on the dubbing stage was perfectly balanced, and clearly heard with no problem. Then you hear, oh it has to be the way you mixed it because my system is perfect. Oh really, then you would not be having dynamic range or dialog intelligibility issues.

When a person is always blaming the software rather than the drawbacks of their system, or its interaction with the room - they are never going to solve the problem, NEVER. When somebody points that out, they are called intolerant - but guess what, the problem is not fixed!

You have constantly made the mistake of thinking that when a person mentions something, it is their own belief. Sometimes it is not. It is based on researched and established protocols that have been thoroughly tested with both amateur and professional folks. If this fact is pointed out to you, and you still choose to go your own way, then do not complain about the problems you are having, they're born out of your own personal stubborn ideology. If you think every one is going to swim in the same direction you are, then you are in for a very rude awakening. That does not happen in real life, just some imaginary one.

Respect and dignity is earned, not given out freely. If you want it, you have to give it. All people are not alike, some direct, and others laid back. If you expect everyone will be just like you, boom, another rude awakening. If you learn to respect people for who they are, you will get along better with everyone. If you expect that online conversation can accurately translate what a person is really means and is feeling, then again you are in for another rude awakening. So much is lost going from face to face to a keyboard and screen - a totally cool person could sound like a A-hole, and it would be so far from the truth.

Lastly, if you are going to fire bullets on your way out the door, then expect bullets when you return. That last impression you leave is the one folks remember the most.

[Hyfi]

With that said, I'm not going away and I do drop in from time to time.

Hey Steve, it's been fun and I hope you continue to find fun and enjoyment in this hobby.

[blackraven]

Hey Steve. I agree with 100% of what you said. I use to be very critical of my system while listening to the music and not really enjoying the music the way I should. But I have come to realize this in the past few years and now I just sit back and enjoy the music. Congratulations to you, you have finally found the true meaning of audio nirvana!

[StevenSurprenant]

Sir T, you amaze me. Actually I was referring to all the people over the years, especially during the wire wars. Your contribution to all that is minimal and hardly noteworthy. Feeling a little self conscious are we?

I have no idea why you keep wanting to make this a personal issue, but it's really a waste of time. I fired no bullets at you and have no interest in doing so in the future.

[Worf101]

WHOA... WHOA... WHOA!!!! Peace out everybody!!! Steve... I read and re-read your original post. I'm not going to debate the merits of your quest or the advice you've gotten ove rthe years. That's for you to evaluate and assess. All I know is that I've enjoyed reading what you have to say and I hope you stay around.

Yours...

Worf

[JohnMichael]

You have driven more people away from this site than anything else and I'm sick of it



Wow is this a new low while complaining about another's behaviors. Guys mods are not able to make any of you be respectful.

[Hyfi]

Wow is this a new low while complaining about another's behaviors. Guys mods are not able to make any of you be respectful.

No but they can stop people from posting who break the forum rules over and over. Other than what you responded to, there is only one individual here that abuses the rules and others at every chance he gets.

How come you seem to be OK with that?

[StevenSurprenant]

Worf, thanks for everything. BTW, since you helped with my Samsung TV, it has been working fine ever since the repair. I can't thank you enough.

[JohnMichael]

No but they can stop people from posting who break the forum rules over and over. Other than what you responded to, there is only one individual here that abuses the rules and others at every chance he gets.

How come you seem to be OK with that?

To punish one who violates forum rules I would need to punish all who violate the rules. Who would be left?

[Hyfi]

To punish one who violates forum rules I would need to punish all who violate the rules. Who would be left?

Good cop out. I guess there is more going on than meets the eye, huh?

Mildly violating rules is not the same thing as what you continue to allow to go on here.

What you have just said is that you would be fine if I said the following to you...
Okay, I am sick of hearing about lip syncing (http://forums.audioreview.com/off-topic-non-audio/okay-i-am-sick-hearing-about-lip-syncing-38805-post390998.html#post390998)

Okay, I am sick of hearing about lip syncing (http://forums.audioreview.com/off-topic-non-audio/okay-i-am-sick-hearing-about-lip-syncing-38805-post391039.html#post391039)

all the things here
Okay, I am sick of hearing about lip syncing - Page 2 (http://forums.audioreview.com/off-topic-non-audio/okay-i-am-sick-hearing-about-lip-syncing-38805-post391067.html#post391067)

[JohnMichael]

Hify you make the assumption that this is okay with me. I thought you guys enjoyed this since it keeps happening. Oh and I am chuckling at your inferences. If you do not like a thing do not participate in it. It is debatable who threw the chum in the water but it has become a feeding frenzy.

[Hyfi]

Hify you make the assumption that this is okay with me. I thought you guys enjoyed this since it keeps happening. Oh and I am chuckling at your inferences. If you do not like a thing do not participate in it. It is debatable who threw the chum in the water but it has become a feeding frenzy.

It keeps happening because it is allowed to keep happening and if it was not OK, something would be done about it. But it appears that you have given the green light for all of us to be abusive of others since what is good for one is good for all here.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Wow, you sure did bust a gut here WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

If I need a lesson in manners and respect just who is going to be the teacher? You? WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL...gotta pee(jumping up and down madly).

This post wreaks of hypocrisy coming from a King Hypocrite.

Anytime Boy. I'll be coming thru Cali next year sometime. Let's meet up then.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

It keeps happening because it is allowed to keep happening and if it was not OK, something would be done about it. But it appears that you have given the green light for all of us to be abusive of others since what is good for one is good for all here.

It keeps happening because you initiate it in the first place, and you even admitted you did. Once again, you throw chum in the water, and then complain when the shark bites your butt. Action/reaction. No action, no reaction, it is just that simple.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Anytime Boy. I'll be coming thru Cali next year sometime. Let's meet up then.

Jeeze, you are scaring the $hit out of me(turns off sarcasm button). You couldn't bust a grape in a wine factory. Go crawl back in the dirt with all this BS. This is not how adults act, it is how children in a sand box act. Now we know you are nothing more than gutter snipe.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Jeeze, you are scaring the $hit out of me(turns off sarcasm button). You couldn't bust a grape in a wine factory. Go crawl back in the dirt with all this BS. This is not how adults act, it is how children in a sand box act. Now we know you are nothing more than gutter snipe.

So, we have a date then, Punk?

[JohnMichael]

It keeps happening because it is allowed to keep happening and if it was not OK, something would be done about it. But it appears that you have given the green light for all of us to be abusive of others since what is good for one is good for all here.


So you are telling me that if one person is abusive you are not able to rise above. I give you permission to become abusive. I control what I do or say and I need no one else to change my actions or behaviors.

We have some members who think we need to moderate more and some miss the days when the AR was not moderated. If we banned folks based on current popularity how many of us might be gone due to a differing opinion or perceived value to the group.

[Worf101]

Worf, thanks for everything. BTW, since you helped with my Samsung TV, it has been working fine ever since the repair. I can't thank you enough.

Can't tell you how glad that makes me feel. You've thanked me plenty... enjoy the superbowl in High Def!!

Worf

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So, we have a date then, Punk?

Sorry, I don't entertain gutter rats, they carry diseases. I also don't date men, but I am not bothered if you do.


The only point you are making here is that you lack class. That is it. You don't scare or intimidate me, you are not going to change me, and you have exposed yourself for who you truly are in plain view for all to see. You have proven your high road is really nothing more than a gutter.

Do you shoot yourself in the foot often? It must really hurt when you do.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Sorry, I don't entertain gutter rats, they carry diseases. I also don't date men, but I am not bothered if you do.


The only point you are making here is that you lack class. That is it. You don't scare or intimidate me, you are not going to change me, and you have exposed yourself for who you truly are in plain view for all to see. You have proven your high road is really nothing more than a gutter.

Do you shoot yourself in the foot often?

And there you have it folks....the boy is ALL MOUTH.

I apologize for my rudeness to all most everyone but I just wanted to expose this wannabe as the cyber bully that he truly is.

I'm outta here.



And the typical childlike response in ......3.....2....1...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

And there you have it folks....the boy is ALL MOUTH.

I apologize for my rudeness to all most everyone but I just wanted to expose this wannabe as the cyber bully that he truly is.

I'm outta here.

If I am all mouth, what exactly have you played out here..all huff and puff, like a wolf living out his Three Pigs fantasy.

They only thing you have exposed is that you know how to step in $hit, and enjoy the smell.

Let the door hit ya on the way out big bad wolf. LOLOLOLOLOL.

[JohnMichael]

It keeps happening because it is allowed to keep happening and if it was not OK, something would be done about it. But it appears that you have given the green light for all of us to be abusive of others since what is good for one is good for all here.


So you want me to babysit adults?

[JohnMichael]

Anytime Boy. I'll be coming thru Cali next year sometime. Let's meet up then.

AR get together. We had one in Chicago. Great time who else is coming?

[StevenSurprenant]

And there you have it folks....

I apologize for my rudeness to all most everyone but I just wanted to expose this wannabe as the cyber bully that he truly is.

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible http://forums.audioreview.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.audioreview.com/off-topic-non-audio/free-last-38817.html#post391136)
I also don't date men, but I am not bothered if you do.



I think he would date you if you take him out for dinner first. A little food, a little wine, and thou... That would be more to his liking.

[StevenSurprenant]

A mixing engineer would first ask what is wrong with YOUR system

Hey T, we can get back to your other problem later, but I thought I'd give this issue one last try.

You keep bringing this intelligibility issue up, but even though I explained it to you, you don't seem to understand. First off, this started when I complained about the directionality of the center speaker distracting me. I proposed using additional speakers mounted higher to bring the dialog up to center screen. To clarify, I tried the center speaker both below and above the TV, each time an inch or two from the TV frame. Follow me so far? You explained to me that additional speakers would create combing and reduce the intelligibility of the dialog. I already knew this and technically you were correct. After I added the extra speakers I told you that even with combing, this arraignment was the lesser evil. Even with these minor audio aberrations, I no longer found myself looking at the bottom of the screen when people spoke. When switching the extra speakers in and out, these aberrations were barely noticeable. I would call that a success. You became upset and insisted that I use one center because that was how the media was recorded and let my mind do its job into fooling me that the audio was coming from the screen, disregarding the fact that after years of trying it this way, it didn't work for me. It didn't work on any system that I listened to and some were far better than mine. I will say this, this directionality would lessened the further I would be from the screen and center speaker, but normal size rooms put a limit on this.

Okay, we didn't see eye to eye on this but you kept bringing up the intelligibility issue of multiple speakers. I segued this to the issue of recording quality. You kept insisting, and still do, that it is my equipment. I told you then that this intelligibility issue was independent of what equipment was used. It didn't matter if it was a high end surround system of just listening on the TV's built in speakers. I might add that this issue has been around long before surround sound found it's way into homes. If it were strictly the equipments fault then all movies would have this issue, but all movies don't. Just so you understand, every time this happens, everyone in the room has problems understanding the dialog.

This brings us to your comment about “When one complains about the dynamic range or dialog ineligibility of a soundtrack on film, A mixing engineer would first ask what is wrong with YOUR system...”. This is a rather ignorant statement. A good engineer would first ask what movie are they referring to and listen to that before jumping to the conclusion that it's the equipments fault. Common sense, don't you think? You can't assume that all movies are of the same quality.

There is another possible issue that may occur due to the way recordings are made in the studio. In the studio, playback is made at much higher sound levels than most people listen to at home. I'm guessing here, but in the studio or movie theater, dynamic peaks are over 100db and even, in some cases, over 110db. Normal listening levels for speech are around 60-65db. Can you see where this is going? I've found that at home I listen at about 80db max, some people even lower If I turn a movie recorded at 100db down where the peaks are 80db, what happens to the dialog? It goes down to about 40db peak and that's for the loudest parts of the dialog. Follow me? During movies where there is a great deal of banging, clanging, and booms going on, the dialog is buried 40db+ below that level, even more for the quieter sounds. I'm going to clarify this so we understand each other. If I am having a conversation with someone at normal levels and someone 5 feet away starts using a jack hammer, it would be almost impossible to hear the other person. If this were a recording that I were playing back on my system and I turned it down when the jack hammer starts, the dialog is reduce to a level more akin to a whisper in a library. I'm over explaining this, but you seem to need it...

I will also add that during loud movies, if I play it loud, I can hear the dialog better. This supports your claim that it is clear in the studio. However, after the movie is finished, I need quiet to recover from the intense audio assault. If the noise levels effect people this way, it's not good for their health to play at those volumes.

Well, I hope that clarifies the subject.

I will add one more thing, which I've done in the past and which you've ignored, but here goes. I know that you add all the sound effects to heighten the excitement in movies, but when it is a constant drone of explosions, bangs, and clangs, it actually hurts the movie. I actually fell asleep watching a Star Wars movies at the theater because of the constant drone. A quieter movie with a sudden explosion of sound is much more effective at creating excitement. So as it is with a movie with a quieter rumbling of bass to enhance pending doom.

Finally, this is just an observation, so don't take it personal. You seem to very biased but that is understandable since your knowledge is limited to the studio. The world outside the studio is much different. Our listening environments can come in every configuration possible, with walls, doors, openings, and windows, all in the wrong place for optimum sound. Our equipment comes in all flavors from tiny TV speakers to full blown high end surround systems. Because of this, there is no standard rule that applies for home setup, certainly not studio standards. While the “standard” can be used as a guide, compromises “have” to be made in the home environment. When TV screens actually become the speaker in addition to being the screen, people will balk at using a center channel. At best, it is a compromise relative to behind the screen speakers and has many inherent flaws. Perhaps you are able to mentally block these flaws, not everyone is so lucky. I've known people that think their Bose system is equal to any high end system too. The mind is a wonderful thing, don't you think?

If you respond to this, don't feed me that same old line again. I've made everything I've mentioned here very clear. You need to read what I wrote and understand it before responding. If it's beyond your ability to expand your way of thinking then just let it pass.

[StevenSurprenant]

... response in ......3.....2....1...

I about fell out of my chair for this one. LMAO!

[ForeverAutumn]

I started deleting offensive posts in this thread, but then I realized that I just don't have the time or energy to bother. You are all grown men acting like children. What is wrong with you?

Hyfi, you whine and cry that the mods aren't being fair, but you do nothing but bait Sir T. You know exactly what you are doing and you know exactly what the response is going to be. Stop doing it.

SirT, you know what Hyfi is up to so why do you respond? Put him on ignore. If the mods had the power, I would do it for you.

This is a valuable site for a lot of people, for many reasons. There is not as much activity here as there used to be and much of the activity that is here is nothing more than pissing wars between people who are trying to prove that they are the biggest dick in the room. Ask yourself this...if you owned this site would you continue to run it under the current conditions? I fear that one day I will come here to check in and learn something new and will find it shut down; in no small part due to threads like this one.

I say all of this as someone who values and cares about these forums, not as a moderator.

Grow up and act like men.

[Hyfi]

I started deleting offensive posts in this thread, but then I realized that I just don't have the time or energy to bother. You are all grown men acting like children. What is wrong with you?

Hyfi, you whine and cry that the mods aren't being fair, but you do nothing but bait Sir T. You know exactly what you are doing and you know exactly what the response is going to be. Stop doing it.

SirT, you know what Hyfi is up to so why do you respond? Put him on ignore. If the mods had the power, I would do it for you.

This is a valuable site for a lot of people, for many reasons. There is not as much activity here as there used to be and much of the activity that is here is nothing more than pissing wars between people who are trying to prove that they are the biggest dick in the room. Ask yourself this...if you owned this site would you continue to run it under the current conditions? I fear that one day I will come here to check in and learn something new and will find it shut down; in no small part due to threads like this one.

I say all of this as someone who values and cares about these forums, not as a moderator.

Grow up and act like men.

FA, I take responsibility for my actions and already admitted I baited him. I also could not have made it anymore obvious. Arguments, disagreements, and dislike are just fine but when one has to always respond with abusiveness, foul mouth, and personal attacks because that is the only way they think they are winning, well I'm going to expose it and point it out. He has every chance to respond to a baited post in a mature civil tongue but has not chosen to do that. Except for this recent issue, you only see ONE member continuously guilty of not being able to post in a somewhat mature and without foul language and personal attacks.

The reason I don't put anyone on ignore is because then I would not be able to see when this behavior is directed at me, all the while everyone else including JM gets a good laugh and can choose favorite posts of that nature. I don't PM the mods behind anyone's back. I don't get into a PM war with the problem individual. I do it here in the open for all to see. I will continue to bring it up if it continues to happen. If someone cannot allow their buttons to be pushed without turning into a street thug, then maybe they should not hang with the ones who can.

I did what I had to do and I was not alone in my complaints as to how the Mods allow one person to attempt to run roughshod over the rest of the members here. You and I go way back and I respect your opinion and comments but I don't just lay down in the fetal position when people attempt to bully me and others around me. I would be doing the same thing if I were still in grade school to stop an abusive bully. And I do it out in the open for all to see.

[JohnMichael]

FA, I take responsibility for my actions and already admitted I baited him. I also could not have made it anymore obvious. Arguments, disagreements, and dislike are just fine but when one has to always respond with abusiveness, foul mouth, and personal attacks because that is the only way they think they are winning, well I'm going to expose it and point it out. He has every chance to respond to a baited post in a mature civil tongue but has not chosen to do that. Except for this recent issue, you only see ONE member continuously guilty of not being able to post in a somewhat mature and without foul language and personal attacks.

The reason I don't put anyone on ignore is because then I would not be able to see when this behavior is directed at me, all the while everyone else including JM gets a good laugh and can choose favorite posts of that nature. I don't PM the mods behind anyone's back. I don't get into a PM war with the problem individual. I do it here in the open for all to see. I will continue to bring it up if it continues to happen. If someone cannot allow their buttons to be pushed without turning into a street thug, then maybe they should not hang with the ones who can.

I did what I had to do and I was not alone in my complaints as to how the Mods allow one person to attempt to run roughshod over the rest of the members here. You and I go way back and I respect your opinion and comments but I don't just lay down in the fetal position when people attempt to bully me and others around me. I would be doing the same thing if I were still in grade school to stop an abusive bully. And I do it out in the open for all to see.


Hyfi, it is over and we must move on to audio again. I have to say when you mention mods feel free to mention me by name. I was the only one available at the time and I know you had problems with how I handled things. Regardless of language used no one held the angel card that was part of the threads. Yes it spilled onto many threads.

As fas as someone's suggestion that it be moved to the Steel Cage I thought that might give license for it to truly get ugly. Yes I know many of the same rules apply but it often becomes a death match in Thunderdome.

This is the end of discussing it and now let's all shake hands, group hug or whatever we need, to be able to be civil. Everyone do what you have to do to get over all this annimosity and whomever chooses to start a thread on this matter again look forward to some time off.

[bobsticks]

AR get together. We had one in Chicago. Great time who else is coming?



When?