Speaker Selection Fun...

[JohnMichael]

...or I have no life.

I buy new speakers and listen to them and never directly compare them. So I brought out the Monitor Audio RS6's, Mobile Fidelity OML 1's and the JBL Studio 530's. I did not include the Ascend CBM 170SE's since they are single wire and I planned on using the Rocket 44's. The 44's having banana plugs are quick to switch out. I kept the speaker stands where they had been for the JBL's and switched the JBL's with the OML1's. When it was the RS6's turn I simply placed them in front of the speaker stands.

I listened to a song one time through each speaker. I only did this for 3 cycles. I did not worry about level matching since I was doing this for fun. The Krell S-300i has a numeric display for volume levels so level matching would have been fairly easy once levels were determined.

The Monitor Audio RS6's were the big losers in my room with my system. They have good bass but not much else to recommend. The tweeters are bright and there is no warmth in the music. Cold and sterile in quick comparison with the other speakers. I think someone with an overly warm tube amp would like these speakers.

The Mobile Fidelity OML 1's were placed on the stands and I did not change the toe-in. I had never used as much toe-in with the OML 1's as I do with the Studio 530's. That much toe-in was not a bad thing. The competition was now between the two stand mount models.

Imaging was better with the Studio 530's.
Soundstaging was deeper with the OML 1's.
Treble was more open with the OML 1's and a little sweeter.
Instrumental textures were best through the 530's.
Vocal's had more clarity with the 530's but more musical when played by the OML 1's.
Bass was a little deeper with the OML 1's but quicker with more texture to the instruments from the JBL's.
The OML 1's play louder. Not as loud as the RS6's.

We have a tie for first place. The OML 1's are just beautiful sounding speakers. The JBL's are very analytical speakers that entertain with information about the recording. The OML 1's trade some inner detail for a very musical overall presentation. Currently I am enjoying the beauty of the OML 1's.

The Monitor Audio RS6's hold no interest for me any longer. I need to figure a way to unload them. I am thinking of selling the speakers with the Onkyo A-9555 and the Marantz CD5001.

[Feanor]

Have you tried Magneplanar MG 1.7's? You room would accommodate these nicely judging by photos. Your speaker quest could be over!

[JohnMichael]

Have you tried Magneplanar MG 1.7's? You room would accommodate these nicely judging by photos. Your speaker quest could be over!


I have not heard Maggies in years. Last time I did hear them and this was before the use of the ribbon tweeters was that solo instruments sounded larger than life. I remember all of a sudden someone with a horn began a solo and the mouth of the horn seemed 5 feet wide.

[Feanor]

I have not heard Maggies in years. Last time I did hear them and this was before the use of the ribbon tweeters was that solo instruments sounded larger than life. I remember all of a sudden someone with a horn began a solo and the mouth of the horn seemed 5 feet wide.
Humm ... well Maggies can image very well indeed and I certainly don't have a bloated image problem at home. Maybe you own them another listen.

Have you heard before that Magneplanars create a too-large image? I have heard that -- but it isn't necessarily or even typically the case. Maybe other Maggie owners here could comment??

Maggies need to be about 3 feet from the wall behind; another foot or two won't do much harm but more could be a problem in given room. But the placement thing is because they are dipolar speakers, not because they have ribbon or quasi-ribbon tweeters for that matter. There is no inherent reason why ribbon or quasi-ribbon tweeters should enlarge the image any more than dome in the horizontal plain..

[JohnMichael]

Humm ... well Maggies can image very well indeed and I certainly don't have a bloated image problem at home. Maybe you own them another listen.

Have you heard before that Magneplanars create a too-large image? I have heard that -- but it isn't necessarily or even typically the case. Maybe other Maggie owners here could comment??

Maggies need to be about 3 feet from the wall behind; another foot or two won't do much harm but more could be a problem in given room. But the placement thing is because they are dipolar speakers, not because they have ribbon or quasi-ribbon tweeters for that matter. There is no inherent reason why ribbon or quasi-ribbon tweeters should enlarge the image any more than dome in the horizontal plain..


I am not willing to sacrifice the space needed for Maggies. As I wrote the Maggies I heard were many years ago before they started with the ribbon or quasi ribbon tweeters. I would think a line source would improve imaging and avoid image bloat.

[mlsstl]

Humm ... well Maggies can image very well indeed and I certainly don't have a bloated image problem at home. Maybe you own them another listen.

Have you heard before that Magneplanars create a too-large image? I have heard that -- but it isn't necessarily or even typically the case. Maybe other Maggie owners here could comment??...

I owned a pair of Maggie 1.6QRs for several years and never found the image they thew to be oversize or otherwise incorrect in any fashion. I really enjoyed them, but after I moved in 2006, the room at the new house was simply wrong for them. The asymmetrical wall behind the speakers screwed things up. That's how I ended up with my Spendor 1/2Es which weren't bothered by the issue.

[JohnMichael]

My comparing my speakers somewhat rapid fire was to exercise my hearing and help me think about what I am looking for in my next very good pair of speakers. Since I am currently living in an apartment I do have to keep in mind speakers that can play in different types of rooms if I were to move.

[thekid]

As far as Maggie's are concerned the MMG's might be a good fit for an apartment environment for several reasons. They have a relatively small footprint and don't look like conventional speakers so can blend into the surroundings a little easier than traditional box speakers. They image very very well and are accurate at even the low volumes which you are often forced to listen at in an apartment environment. Their weakness is on the low end though maybe not as much as you might think. Any speaker that produces low end bass can be problematic in an apartment environment. A good sub can handle the low end with MMG's and can IMO can give you greater control over the effects of the low end if/when that may be an issue in the apartment. I have heard some of the larger Maggies and for larger rooms or higher listening volumes they certainly outperform the MMG's in that type of environment but for a smaller room the MMG's can hang with a lot of other speakers out there that run 2 or 3 times the price.

[JohnMichael]

...until someone loses a vibraphone.

I was listening to Ella Fitgerald "Sings The Harold Arlen Songbook" when all of a sudden the vibraphone was lost in the mix. The OML 1's did not do well reproducing the sound of the vibes. Out came the Studio 530's and so did the vibraphone. I like the sound of the vibraphone and it sounds so natural through the Studio 530's.

The OML 1's are not as detailed or as defined as the JBL's. They are a little sweeter sounding but I want to hear all the music. The Studio 530's have moved into first place. I feel like I now have an understanding of what my speakers sound like. I will also add the Ella cd to my audition selection.

Now time to go shopping.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Hey John, If you can, you might want to audition the new Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 speakers. They reviewed them in Sound and Vision this month and the reviewer was using the Krell S300i to power them. At $1,298 a pair they could be your answer.

[JohnMichael]

Hey John, If you can, you might want to audition the new Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 speakers. They reviewed them in Sound and Vision this month and the reviewer was using the Krell S300i to power them. At $1,298 a pair they could be your answer.


Good suggestion! I think that line is available fairly close to home. I have always wanted to hear a pair of Sonus Fabers.

[Jack in Wilmington]

When I was at my dealer last week he had the matching floorstander (the 2.5) hooked up to my amp (Anthem 225) and they sounded sweet. The SF that I heard in the past were a little to polite for me, but these kicked it up a notch.

[frenchmon]

IF you get a chance, let me now what the Sonus Faber Venere sound like to you. I've listen to them briefly and they did nothing for me. And I hate that look.

JM you know from what I understand, gear sells pretty swiftly over at Audiokarma. Some body might jump on the Monitor Audio's really quickly.

[JohnMichael]

IF you get a chance, let me now what the Sonus Faber Venere sound like to you. I've listen to them briefly and they did nothing for me. And I hate that look.

JM you know from what I understand, gear sells pretty swiftly over at Audiokarma. Some body might jump on the Monitor Audio's really quickly.


I will report back. As far as selling the RS6's I would gladly do that but I do not want to have to ship them. I may talk to the guy who sold them for me. I think he would sell them on consignment. I think I am at a point in my audio life where I need some truly good speakers which will require and investment. I have been listening to all sets to decide where I want to go in the future.

[JohnMichael]

I had the OML 1's out again since I had the day off. I was listening to Joshua Bell and Jeremy Denk's "french impressions" which I highly recommend. All of a sudden it hit me that the JBL's sounded like a single violin and one piano. The OML 1's which are designed to have wider dispersion are bothered by early reflections in my room. The OML 1's make that same recording sound like there is more going on than there is. Due to where I have the speakers placed I will have to be careful what speakers I buy. I was curious about the KEF LS50 and now really want to hear it. Or a Tannoy with a concentric driver might be a good choice.

Any ideas of speakers that might work in the room would be appreciated.

[Jack in Wilmington]

The KEF's were seriously lacking bass and needed a sub and with the princesses downstairs, I'm sure a sub is not in the picture. What do the dealers, that you're going to visit, carry that you might be interested in?

[JohnMichael]

The KEF's were seriously lacking bass and needed a sub and with the princesses downstairs, I'm sure a sub is not in the picture. What do the dealers, that you're going to visit, carry that you might be interested in?


The Pricesses are moving and the one's father is buying them out of the remainder of the lease. Ouch I doubt that will be cheap.

When I first hooked up the JBL's I was amazed at how focused everything was. Now today when I hooked up the OML 1's simple music seemed more complex than it was. It dawned on my that wide dispersion was causing very quick reflections and smearing and blurring the music. The OML 1's lacked vocal clarity in some ranges and minimized the sound of a vibraphone on another recording.

My room and furniture placement is the main problem when it comes to selecting speakers. I have the speakers in front of the 12 foot wall instead of more open along the 15 foot wall. That is why I think that a speaker with controlled directivity in the highs will work better. The lack of early reflections has been a real benefit.

As far as bass is concerned that is never a priority. As long as the midrange is right I can live with less bass. A small room will reinforce what bass there is better than a large room.

[Jack in Wilmington]

You are missing so much of the music by cutting off the low end. Your MA's at least go down to 38hz and the OML1's go down to 50hz and the JBL's go down to 45hz that's not too bad. But the KEF's only go down to 79hz, you might as well sit in your car and listen to those speakers. Sorry for the rant. Just my 2 cents.

[blackraven]

JM, how much do you want for the Onyko 9555 and/or the 5001? Send me a PM!

Larry

[JohnMichael]

When I read about Totem speakers and how they are designed to face forward I think they would have the same early reflections I have struggled with in my small room.

Due to the fact that all Totem speakers have great off-axis dispersion, toe-in is generally not needed. Imaging will therefore be more stable from any point in the room. If the speakers are placed very far apart (over 7 feet) then a slight toe-in may be experimented with. However if room geometry does not permit a straight-ahead aspect they will also perform very well with a slight toe-in.

I need a pair of speakers that do require toe-in. I need the first sounds to reach me and the reflections to be more delayed.

[JohnMichael]

The JBL Studio 530's are really nice speakers in my room with my system. They are doing what I need them to do. I think I just need to sit back and enjoy them. Sure they may not have an impressive audiophile name or cost a lot of money but they are working for me. Sure a $2,500 integrated amp driving a $479 pair of speakers does not seem like good syatem balance but it is working well. Mr. P was right and I need to trust my own ears.

[thekid]

The JBL Studio 530's are really nice speakers in my room with my system. They are doing what I need them to do. I think I just need to sit back and enjoy them. Sure they may not have an impressive audiophile name or cost a lot of money but they are working for me. Sure a $2,500 integrated amp driving a $479 pair of speakers does not seem like good syatem balance but it is working well. Mr. P was right and I need to trust my own ears.

Good on you!
As is often said in this hobby your ears are what matter most.
Enjoy!

[JohnMichael]

The Studio 530's are still entertaining me. I have been enjoying music more than usual. I am listening to the equipment much less. No time is wasted trying to analyze the system. The interest in shopping for new speakers has faded. It has been since I upgraded from the NHT SuperOnes that I have enjoyed the music as consistently as I do through the JBL's. Neither the MA RS6's nor the MF OML 1's satisfied on as broad a range of music.

I am not sure what part of the design is bringing me so much music. Is it the low crossover point of 1,500 Hz and much of the upper mids and highs played through the horn? Maybe it is the small light woofer in a large enclosure that plays well below a point where it beams or suffers breakup? Is it the horn controlling dispersion so I have less side wall reflections? I need to look for design papers on this series. Greg Timbers the designer of the Studio 5 series is the same man who designed the cost no object Everest, K2 and Project Array series. I think I have a fine example of trickle down.

The Krell S-300i is a good match with the Studio 530's. The Krell easily drives an 86 db efficiency speaker. It controls the woofer and bass is tight and fairly extended. Both are neutral and let the music shine through. Sure a $2,500 integrated amp driving a speaker with a list of $689 and retails for $599 and I purchased on sale for $479 might seem a mismatch but it is nice to enjoy a true bargain.

[JohnMichael]

I have a recording that I enjoy, Lauridsen's "Lux Aeterna" with Paul Salamunovich. A member thought the recording was muddy but it had never sounded thay way to me. I had heard it one time or another through all three speakers. Lux Aeterna sounds very nice through the Studio 530's but something was missing. I was not hearing the swell of the choir and the sense of the room filling with voices like I had in the past.

I dragged out the Monitor Audio RS6's to hear Lux Aeterna. As good as the Studio 530's are they just are not able to do dynamics like a larger speaker. Of course dynamics and bass have gotten me in trouble before with the first floor princesses.

I cannot compare this recording with any other but the ambiance is very good. Having spent too much of my early life in churches I have to say listening to this cd makes you think you are in church. A church with good acoustics and a very talented choir. You can almost smell the wood of the pews. Of course this is when listening through the RS6's. It still sounds good through the OML 1's and Studio 530's but it is not as room filling. Memo to self, pay attention to dynamics.

[thekid]

I have a recording that I enjoy, Lauridsen's "Lux Aeterna" with Paul Salamunovich. A member thought the recording was muddy but it had never sounded thay way to me. I had heard it one time or another through all three speakers. Lux Aeterna sounds very nice through the Studio 530's but something was missing. I was not hearing the swell of the choir and the sense of the room filling with voices like I had in the past.

I dragged out the Monitor Audio RS6's to hear Lux Aeterna. As good as the Studio 530's are they just are not able to do dynamics like a larger speaker. Of course dynamics and bass have gotten me in trouble before with the first floor princesses.

I cannot compare this recording with any other but the ambiance is very good. Having spent too much of my early life in churches I have to say listening to this cd makes you think you are in church. A church with good acoustics and a very talented choir. You can almost smell the wood of the pews. Of course this is when listening through the RS6's. It still sounds good through the OML 1's and Studio 530's but it is not as room filling. Memo to self, pay attention to dynamics.

Thanks JM!
I will keep my eye open for that recording.

[Feanor]

I'm just going to say for what it's worth that modern digital equalization has the ability to salve speaker selection angst in many cases. Smallish frequency response differences can drive speaker choice, sometime seeming to forcing a person to more frequent & expensive speaker swapping than really necessary. Of course, frequency response isn't everything: design factors, (e.g. dipolar vs. monopolar), and distortion can be important, but frequency response is very big according Floyd Toole and others.

Hardware devices and, potentially much cheaper, software can correct frequency response. Software works great for me. Since I listen to almost all my music via computer, I use Foobar2000 with AIXcoustic Solutions' Electri-Q plug-in.

The difference correcting for response anomalies inherent in my speakers + room combination is certainly as great as swapping speakers of comparable design would be.

Of interest, maybe, is my description of my equalization written up HERE (http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/19/195026.html).

[JohnMichael]

I have been switching back and forth again. This time I have been paying attention to dynamics. The RS6's have the best bass and dynamics while the OML 1's have good dynamics with less bass. The JBL's have the least dynamics.

Even though the RS6's were the best with dynamics the overall sound was not superior to my OML 1's. The sound of the OML 1's is more to my liking. This time setting them up I have them no wider than my equipment stand. They are almost 6 ft apart so plenty of room from side wall reflections.

It dawned on me that I had not tightened the drivers in the OLM 1's in too long a time. I brought out my tools and torqued down the drivers. The right mid/woofer needed the most tightening followed by the left and even the tweeters needed snugged up. My previous complaints of additional sounds was extra vibrations from the drivers. Once tightened down everything was sounding
great. After the warranty period I will use a product to prevent vibrations from loosening the screws. I am surprised by the increased clarity. The RS6's drivers also needed to be tightened.

Still having fun switching speakers and deciding which characteristics are most important to me. Dynamics are important. Minimal vibrations from cabinets. Paper and silk drivers. Good midrange clarity. Bass tuneful but does not have to be deep. Highs that are silky and sweet but not in a colored way. Good imaging and soundstaging.