What is a hometheater?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This was a question I was asked after one of my colleagues came back from visiting a friends house. His friend had a 50" plasma and a 5.1 system set up in his living room, and he called it his "hometheater". I said jokingly "no, that is a television and a 5.1 speaker system, not a hometheater". This started a discussion about just what constitutes a hometheater system, and a great topic to discuss.

To me, a hometheater system really is a shrunken professional movie theater. It has to have a projector and screen, or a 65"+ RPTV if the room is smaller. The room must be dedicated to getting the best out of the audio and video(so it must be a dedicated room). It can have a 5.1 or 7.1 system. I think any television smaller than 65" is not sufficient enough to make the system a hometheater. I don't think a system in a living room is a hometheater - as it cannot be optimized in that space.

So, what is a hometheater to you?

[Hyfi]

<< From PCMAg
Practical Home Theater For Everyone

However, in reality, home theater as actually applied in most homes, does not consist of an expensive custom installation, nor a lot of money. A home theater can be something as simple as a 27-inch TV, a basic DVD player and/or HiFi VCR, inexpensive stereo or AV receiver, and speakers. Whatever type of system you end up with, as long as it provides the entertainment options you need and like, then it is your "Home Theater". You can have a home theater in just about any room of the house, a small apartment, office, dorm, or even outside. The option(s) you choose are up to you.>>


For those of us that do not have cash falling out of our pockets, the above definition is sufficient.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sorry, but a PC magazine does not know jack about hometheater - they know about PC's. The wouldn't know a hometheater from a fireplace, and this explaination of HT shows they don't emphasize some level of quality. We are past VCR, past DVD players, and certainly past a 27" television.

[Hyfi]

I found the same definition over and over.

You and all your money have one definition, the rest of us have another. We deal with what we can put together. We all don't have 3 houses and a warehouse full of gear like some do.

A home theater is a place to watch movies the way you enjoy them and not have to go to a B&M theater. Period!

Not sure what you are fishing for besides acknowledgement that you are a little better off then the rest of us.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I found the same definition over and over.

You and all your money have one definition, the rest of us have another. We deal with what we can put together. We all don't have 3 houses and a warehouse full of gear like some do.

A home theater is a place to watch movies the way you enjoy them and not have to go to a B&M theater. Period!

Not sure what you are fishing for besides acknowledgement that you are a little better off then the rest of us.

It would take your stupid ass to come up with this bull$hit. This is not about me idiot, it is about what constitutes a hometheater. I have stated what I think a hometheater is, and it is not what marketing people, or people re-inventing what it is.

A hometheater is just what the names states - a theater in your home. Your living room is not a theater, and neither is your bedroom. The word hometheater came from people who could afford to create a theater in their home(projector, screen, and seats), and now it is used to describe just about anything.

If you want to participate in this discussion fine. If you want to wreck this thread with your bull$hit, take it and that chip on your should somewhere else and screw yourself. I am looking for peoples personal opinions, not some definition taken from a online PC mag.

If you don't have a dedicated room, then call your system what it is. It is a 5.1 speaker system with a television set in your living room. What is the shame with that?

[RoyY51]

Can you guys hold on for a few minutes? I have to run to the store for popcorn and beer...

[Hyfi]

It would take your stupid ass to come up with this bull$hit. This is not about me idiot, it is about what constitutes a hometheater. I have stated what I think a hometheater is, and it is not what marketing people, or people re-inventing what it is.

A hometheater is just what the names states - a theater in your home. Your living room is not a theater, and neither is your bedroom. The word hometheater came from people who could afford to create a theater in their home(projector, screen, and seats), and now it is used to describe just about anything.

If you want to participate in this discussion fine. If you want to wreck this thread with your bull$hit, take it and that chip on your should somewhere else and screw yourself. I am looking for peoples personal opinions, not some definition taken from a online PC mag.

If you don't have a dedicated room, then call your system what it is. It is a 5.1 speaker system with a television set in your living room. What is the shame with that?

Keep showing us who you really are, a Cyber Bully who can't go 3 posts without name calling and trying to look oh so superior.

Since you already know what the definition is why ask such a question if when answered, you resort to name calling?


So, what is a hometheater to you?

Be careful how the rest of you answer this one. There is only one correct answer and Mr T already has it. Answer wrong and be treated poorly as usual.

Cry to the Mods again or choose to ignore me but I will post wherever I please and too bad if you can't deal with it.

[Mr Peabody]

"Home Theater" probably has become a marketing term to sell consumer electronics, however, most people do not have an extra room just for a theater so the HT has to be within an already designated room such as living or family room. I do agree a HT should have a large screen, I mean that's one of the main attractions, or criteria, of any theater. Personally most of my HT set ups have had better surround effects than what I've experienced at the theater. I do think there's a difference between watching movies and a theater experience but I suppose it's all relative since no set in stone definition exists.

[TheHills44060]

If someone invites me over to watch a movie on her/his "home theater" the only absolute requirement I have come to expect is some sort of external speaker system attached to a viewing screen be it a tv or projection screen. For me the term home theater is very nebulous because I've heard people with a couple externally powered speakers connected to a tv as well as people with a full blown dedicated movie screen and a jillion speakers all refer to their system as a home theater.

Doesn't bother me either way. Only thing that would bug me is if someone only had a tv and a bag of popcorn then referred to that as a home theater.

[bfalls]

I only have a 52" Sony XBR, but consider my setup a Home Theater. It's in a dedicated 12.5'x 25' (it's one room but half is 10'x 13 the other 12.5'x12') which is better sonically since the long axis isn't twice the short axis). I have two different systems setup, a Legacy Focus/Emotiva system and a Sony STR-D5300ES/Klipsch Kg4 system). Each has it's own sonic advantages. In the room I also have several smaller 5.1 systems stored which I listen to occasionally. I have an Emotiva ERM-1/ERD-1 system, a B&W LM1/VM1 system, a Scandyna Minipod system, PSB Intro (Alpha) system and a Klipsch B2/KV3 system. Each with their specific sound. Except for having two closets in the room it's purely dedicated to Home Theater and Music. Since I sit only about 10' from the screen a larger screen wasn't necessary. I haven't gone to the trouble of having the room sonically treated. I have two 5'x6' shelves to store my CDs, DVDs and BDs which pretty much treats the back of the room. With couches and carpet to treat the front it balances the room from reflections. It's dedicated for Home Theater and Music, but still liveable.

[Feanor]

...
To me, a hometheater system really is a shrunken professional movie theater. It has to have a projector and screen, or a 65"+ RPTV if the room is smaller. The room must be dedicated to getting the best out of the audio and video(so it must be a dedicated room). It can have a 5.1 or 7.1 system. I think any television smaller than 65" is not sufficient enough to make the system a hometheater. I don't think a system in a living room is a hometheater - as it cannot be optimized in that space.

So, what is a hometheater to you?
Your definition of what is HT is pretty up-market. From your perspective as a professional it makes good sense. However to the rest of us who like to watch movies on our TV + 5.1 sound systems, we some time label our system "HT" because that's how we use them.

More importantly, the likes of BestBuy would probably hate to give up the term "home theater" as they apply it to lessor systems of the type they typically sell.

OTOH custom installers probably take you POV.

[Hyfi]

Can you guys hold on for a few minutes? I have to run to the store for popcorn and beer...

You may want to get Season Tickets

[Funkycold]

Not that he needs it, but I want to come to Sir TT's defense for a minute. Nearly 10 years ago, I joined this forum as a young college kid who was fascinated with surround sound. I was a TV/Film major at a prominent film school, and the info I received from TT (both directly and indirectly) proved to be INCREDIBLY valuable. Soon after graduating, I started a career in post-production that ultimately led to positions in the Home Entertainment Production Departments of a major Hollywood studio, TV Network, as well as one network that “isn't quite TV...” At this point, I’ve produced hundreds of DVD and Blu-ray titles for both US and international release. I mention this for no other reason than to make it clear that I’m quite qualified to speak on all issues related to “home theater,” or whatever else you’d like to dub the technologies that bring audio/video content into your home.

Anyone working in this industry knows that the hours can be pretty intense, and as such, I haven't posted a message in probably close to 6 years. But during that period, I've checked-in on an almost daily basis to stay up-to-date, and to see what's on the mind of today's consumers. I can’t tell you how often I see misinformation posted here (and everywhere for that matter…), and the only person that consistently delivers the facts is Sir TT. The guy knows his stuff, people. PERIOD. These debates about LED vs. Plasma, 1080p vs. 4k/8k, etc… are all ridiculous. There simply isn’t a debate when it comes to a lot of this stuff, and you have an AMAZING resource here at your disposal to answer any questions you may have. Sure, people can perceive things differently, and as such, have their own preferences. But this stems from either personal bias, or genuine medical issues that prohibit one from seeing/hearing the benefits of product “a” over product “b.” At the end of the day, facts are facts, and TT’s word is damn near HT gospel.

It’s silly how people’s personal insecurities manage to come out even on a home theater forum – enough already! I’m not going to get caught up in these stupid little “wars.” Otherwise, I wouldn’t have enough time to finish the working on the content that ultimately leads to all of these fights :)

Sir TT – I just want to say “thank you” for all of your contributions to this community. It’s unfortunate that some members are more focused on proving who has a bigger @@@@, rather than actually trying to learn something. But please know that your time has not been wasted, and that you’ve had a HUGE impact on at least one person’s career.

Funkycold

[E-Stat]

So, what is a hometheater to you?
It's gotta have springy seats, sticky floors and a random kernel of popcorn here and there. :)

[Feanor]

Quite right, Funkycold, Sir TtT doesn't need your endorsement. Many of us are quite well aware of his credentials and are quite willing to defer when it comes matters of objective knowledge.

Two posts in 8 years? Humm. Nice to hear from you, and now you can slip back under your rock now.

[Smokey]

I do think there's a difference between watching movies and a theater experience but I suppose it's all relative since no set in stone definition exists.

IMO the definition of HT as a classic term is evolving. With computers (or media server to keep E-Stat happy :D) and Smart TVs being integrated into HT, it had become more of media center than HT as there are too many distraction.

One minute you could be watching a movie on bluray, and next minute you're surfing the net, and next minute streaming a TV show, answer an email meanwhile, and back to watch the rest of movie.

[Smokey]

It's gotta have springy seats, sticky floors and a random kernel of popcorn here and there. :)

And exit sign above :cool:

http://youngstownohioprofessionals.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/exit-sign.jpg

[Funkycold]

[QUOTE=Two posts in 8 years? Humm. Nice to hear from you, and now you can slip back under your rock now.[/QUOTE]

Wow, what a nice homecoming... This is exactly my point - Lines like that don't exactly provide incentive for members to want to be active in this community, nor does anyone learn from them. I wasn't attacking you or anyone specifically for that matter, so I'm not sure what you're so worked up about. My point was simply that there's a lot to be gained here, and it's a shame that so many of the threads are wasted or ended prematurely after being sidetracked by personal attacks or people speaking nonsense instead of opening up to the possibility that they might be wrong and taking the time to educate themselves. Call me crazy, but that doesn't sound like such a bad thing. As mentioned, this place was at one point very influential on my career development, and I just find it a bit depressing to watch how angry it has gotten over the years after seeing first-hand how much someone can gain.

That said, it would be rather hypocritical for me to continue detouring this thread. So as requested, I'll slip back under my rock and reminisce of an earlier time not so long ago when people were sincerely interested in having real discussions and helping each other out.

[Hyfi]

Wow, what a nice homecoming...

My point was simply that there's a lot to be gained here, and it's a shame that so many of the threads are wasted or ended prematurely after being sidetracked by personal attacks or people speaking nonsense instead of opening up to the possibility that they might be wrong and taking the time to educate themselves.

Funkycold, sorry I do no remember you even though I have been posting here for close to 15 years or more. But, since you have not been around, and have not followed every thread, you obviously don't realize that what I bolded above IS the exact point being made.

I would be a liar to say I never learned a thing from Mr.T. But at the same time, if you don't just agree with him, he starts calling you names, which is a personal attack. This is now become a standard pattern and many people have had enough.

By all the Forum Rules, he should have been banned a long time ago, but again if you have not noticed, we have a small group of awesome Moderators who don't hardline all the rules unless it gets completely out of hand, which for the very same reasons it has of late.

Stick around, have some fun, teach the rest of of us some of what you have learned. Maybe you just opened the door at the wrong time.

[E-Stat]

And exit sign above
I almost mentioned that!

[Mr Peabody]

Not me, Smokey, I try to watch a movie all the way without interruptions, or, distractions.

[RGA]

I kind of agree with Sir T (what do you know). A true Home theater system - the ones that are professionally installed - something like in the pictures

9006

9007


To me those systems tend to both sound better and look better.

A theater experience is not just surround sound - it's "Big Screen, Big Sound" and a 27 inch TV doesn't cut it. Indeed, I often find big sound systems hooked to tiny ass TVs kind of laughable. I have a 37 inch TV but I sit about 5 feet from it. So in my apartment it's pretty massive. Much bigger than if you had a 65 inch screen and sat 20 feet away for example.

But the marketed term is home theater and corporations most often set the lingo which then gets absorbed by the masses.

I would keep the term as is - but maybe add the word "True" in front of "home theater" like those I pictured.

And if we want real home theater you need to dump sticky pop on the floor, have a popcorn machine and some idiot with a cell phone lighting up the corners of your eyes and some crying kid or some putz who comments on every little thing, and of course the guy hacking up a lung because he's gone 9 minutes without a cigarette. Oh and you have to site way up front or 10 feet to the left or both. Theaters? You can keep em.

PS: IMO TV is better anyway. I haven't seen a movie that competes with the likes of Dexter or Breaking Bad in terms of character depth and large story arcs. Obviously movies can't - they simply don't have enough time.

The real advantage of movies was the special effects. When Star Wars came out it destroyed the rather pathetic special effects of TV science fiction. Dr. Who wound up being taken off the air it was so horrid in comparison in the 1980s and the first BattleStar was offed.

However, TV still had story arcs as an advantage and now TV special effects are not embarrassed by films anymore - Dr. Who, Battlestar Gallactica, The Walking Dead etc are all quite visually strong. The Walking Dead pretty much competes with any zombie movie - betters most of them in terms of splatter effects and they manage it weekly. So now you have the visuals which are pretty much on par and better story arcs - it's free (with cable subscription) and so I have been less thrilled going to the movies. Most of them just seem so dumb. The ones that are not tend to be the ones with stories (no special effects) and these hardly need to be seen on a 65 inch screen - or for that matter hardly need 10 speakers. Having said that - if you love Avatar kind of stuff Home theater is definitely a better experience with surround, big screens etc. And so is BattleStar and the Walking Dead and Dr. Who. Like expensive stereos - TRUE home theater can enhance the experience. But to be fair a 37 inch screen and surround sound enhances the experience - not as much as TRUE home theater but it's still way way better than a 24 inch TV and no speakers.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks RGA for your usual breif & concise response, LOL

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Keep showing us who you really are, a Cyber Bully who can't go 3 posts without name calling and trying to look oh so superior.

Hyfi, you need a diaper change. All this crying and boohooing is boring as heck since I have already done my share of diaper changing. You seem to have a victims mentality. Really, a cyberbully? Are you a kid or an adult?

Get a baby sitter.

Since you already know what the definition is why ask such a question if when answered, you resort to name calling?




Be careful how the rest of you answer this one. There is only one correct answer and Mr T already has it. Answer wrong and be treated poorly as usual.

I guess the victim mentality suits you well. When it comes to Hometheater, there is only one answer that is correct.


Cry to the Mods again or choose to ignore me but I will post wherever I please and too bad if you can't deal with it.

Why would I cry to the mods? It is not worth it to me - you are just an fool anyway.
Besides, I don't mind pointing out an idiot when I see one.(finger points at you)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

"Home Theater" probably has become a marketing term to sell consumer electronics, however, most people do not have an extra room just for a theater so the HT has to be within an already designated room such as living or family room.

Unfortunately, a living room or multipurpose room can not be considered a hometheater. A hometheater is not just equipment, it is equipment, room, and environment.



I do agree a HT should have a large screen, I mean that's one of the main attractions, or criteria, of any theater. Personally most of my HT set ups have had better surround effects than what I've experienced at the theater. I do think there's a difference between watching movies and a theater experience but I suppose it's all relative since no set in stone definition exists.

There was a definition, and then it was changed for marketing purposes.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

There is a very good reason why I have come to my conclusion about Hometheaters. It has nothing to do with the cost of the A/V equipment, but has everything to do with the genesis of hometheaters.

Hometheater is derived from old school screening rooms. Screening rooms had just one purpose, and one purpose only. To screen films that Heads of studio financed, and Directors shot. Screening rooms date back to the 1930's when most Hollywood studio heads had them in their homes for screening daily's. Since the 1930's all the way to the late eighties, screening room were only in the homes of Studio heads, Directors, producers, and very rich actors with access to 35mm film.

Screening rooms consisted of a 35mm film projector, and into the 70's a Dolby decoder, simplex film projector, a screen, and some form of adapted JBL sound system. It was a small size professional movie theater in a home environment. It was not used to entertain guests, have coffee, or to sit around and read in. It was for screening movies, and only that. It was a combination of equipment, dedicated space, and viewing environment. It usually followed some film standard it terms of viewing angle, and sound reproduction.

THX brought the next generation of screening rooms into focus for the wealthy and general public that wanted high standards during their movie viewing experience. With decent quality video sources(laserdisc), a screening room no longer had to have a film projector, but could have a video projector instead. THX set standards for viewing angle and distance, for acoustics, and for the necessary gear to have a high quality video experience. This could only be accomplished in a DEDICATED room, as living rooms, and bedrooms are not optimal spaces for a high quality viewing experience.

In the early 90's, electronic and speaker manufacturers decided they could sell more speakers and equipment if they relabeled hometheater as a equipment only experience. No longer was home THEATER tied to a dedicated space, but any space you could set up their equipment in. Now Hometheater was about the equipment only, and the optimal viewing space was ditched so they could sell equipment to the masses in the name of providing the same experience as a dedicated screening room - but you could put the equipment anywhere. The marketing people made that change, not the film people who actually produce the content.

A hometheater is really what the wording states - a theater in your home. A honest to God hometheater would have the visual aesthetics of a real professional movie theater, and follow SMPTE or THX standards for visual and audio quality. These standards cannot be followed in somebody's living room or bedroom. It must be a dedicated space where nothing other than movie watching is done.

You cannot call a dog a cat just because both can scratch. You cannot call a sturgeon a whale just because both swim in water. You cannot call a female a male just because both eat, breathe, and walk on two feet. And you cannot call a flat panel and a 5.1 system in a living or bedroom a hometheater just because both can play a Bluray disc. There are distinctions which separate these things - and when you decide to blur those distinction, you fundamentally change what that thing really is.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Not that he needs it, but I want to come to Sir TT's defense for a minute. Nearly 10 years ago, I joined this forum as a young college kid who was fascinated with surround sound. I was a TV/Film major at a prominent film school, and the info I received from TT (both directly and indirectly) proved to be INCREDIBLY valuable. Soon after graduating, I started a career in post-production that ultimately led to positions in the Home Entertainment Production Departments of a major Hollywood studio, TV Network, as well as one network that “isn't quite TV...” At this point, I’ve produced hundreds of DVD and Blu-ray titles for both US and international release. I mention this for no other reason than to make it clear that I’m quite qualified to speak on all issues related to “home theater,” or whatever else you’d like to dub the technologies that bring audio/video content into your home.

Anyone working in this industry knows that the hours can be pretty intense, and as such, I haven't posted a message in probably close to 6 years. But during that period, I've checked-in on an almost daily basis to stay up-to-date, and to see what's on the mind of today's consumers. I can’t tell you how often I see misinformation posted here (and everywhere for that matter…), and the only person that consistently delivers the facts is Sir TT. The guy knows his stuff, people. PERIOD. These debates about LED vs. Plasma, 1080p vs. 4k/8k, etc… are all ridiculous. There simply isn’t a debate when it comes to a lot of this stuff, and you have an AMAZING resource here at your disposal to answer any questions you may have. Sure, people can perceive things differently, and as such, have their own preferences. But this stems from either personal bias, or genuine medical issues that prohibit one from seeing/hearing the benefits of product “a” over product “b.” At the end of the day, facts are facts, and TT’s word is damn near HT gospel.

It’s silly how people’s personal insecurities manage to come out even on a home theater forum – enough already! I’m not going to get caught up in these stupid little “wars.” Otherwise, I wouldn’t have enough time to finish the working on the content that ultimately leads to all of these fights :)

Sir TT – I just want to say “thank you” for all of your contributions to this community. It’s unfortunate that some members are more focused on proving who has a bigger @@@@, rather than actually trying to learn something. But please know that your time has not been wasted, and that you’ve had a HUGE impact on at least one person’s career.

Funkycold

Funkycold, it is good to see your name man. I have not seen it in what seems like forever. Thanks for the compliment, and it is good to see you are doing well in the industry.

Please, for goodness sake post sometime. It would be good to hear another film industry insider aside from myself. I am glad at least somebody can appreciate the information I provide - which is why I have been here for 17 years.

[Mr Peabody]

I can see where you are trying to draw the line in the sand, nothing in the room but what is needed to view and hear the movie set to a standard. I don't see it though, if some one like THX sets the standard and the equalization should work no matter what is in the room and if ones intent is to sit and watch a movie in the room it shouldn't matter what other furnishings are in there. I suppose you'd say some of the upscale theaters who have sofas and other items in the theater opposed to the standard seating are disqualified from calling themselves a theater?

[Smokey]

THX brought the next generation of screening rooms into focus for the wealthy and general public that wanted high standards during their movie viewing experience. With decent quality video sources(laserdisc), a screening room no longer had to have a film projector, but could have a video projector instead. THX set standards for viewing angle and distance, for acoustics, and for the necessary gear to have a high quality video experience. This could only be accomplished in a DEDICATED room, as living rooms, and bedrooms are not optimal spaces for a high quality viewing experience.

I agree that it will be hard to achieve sound quality of dedicated room in general home enviroment, but wouldn't sitting right distance from [calibrated] TV and have control lighting in any space of home at least satisfy the THX video standards.

Aot of TVs nowdays have self calibartion tool (such as LG's "picture wizard”) that meet the ISF standards for PQ and right color temperature.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I can see where you are trying to draw the line in the sand, nothing in the room but what is needed to view and hear the movie set to a standard.

Exactly!


I don't see it though, if some one like THX sets the standard and the equalization should work no matter what is in the room and if ones intent is to sit and watch a movie in the room it shouldn't matter what other furnishings are in there.

But it does matter. Following standards, all the furnishings in the theater will have specific acoustical qualities. Diffusion provided by a scatter-block method has a very predictable scattering of the frequencies, but a coffee table does not. Neither does a picture on a wall, or a reflective couch or love seat. We don't scatter room treatments all over our living rooms, as that would not pass the WAF, nor would it make a living room very attractive.

You cannot just equalize and think you have solved a problem. It is a tool, not a panacea for all the acoustical problems in a room.

In a dedicated room, I can achieve the ideal reverberation time, but I cannot do that in a LIVING-ROOM which has a different requirement. It doubles as an entertainment area, and so it cannot be truly optimized for standardize movie watching.


I suppose you'd say some of the upscale theaters who have sofas and other items in the theater opposed to the standard seating are disqualified from calling themselves a theater?

I would suppose you are wrong. As long as whatever seats are used are placed for the ideal THX viewing cone, then what kind of seat does not matter. I've seen bean bags being used, but there were arraigned so every seat meets the THX specification for viewing distance.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I agree that it will be hard to achieve sound quality of dedicated room in general home enviroment, but wouldn't sitting right distance from [calibrated] TV and have control lighting in any space of home at least satisfy the THX video standards.

The answer is yes. But you still have to be able to see all of the pixels that a 1080p resolution has, and that is not achievable on a television that is 50" or less. At some point you are going to sit too close, and then you will be able to see the pixel structure of the set. That my friend is no good. This is why Laurie Finchman of THX says that any screen size 50" and under can not meet THX's spec's - you can't sit close enough to them to see all the pixels of 1080p's resolution.


Aot of TVs nowdays have self calibartion tool (such as LG's "picture wizard”) that meet the ISF standards for PQ and right color temperature.

And this would be completely wasted if I could not see all of the resolution of the source right?

[Mr Peabody]

You are losing me on the seating issue, you mentioned bean bags, I mentioned sofa which both you said were alright, theaters are various sizes and generally have several rows of seating, so how can THX equalize for all of these variables and not a coffee table or lamp? Maybe what you describe is a "screening room" and most of the general populous has "home theater"? Or, maybe there could be a distinction like "Professional Home Theater" vs "Casual Home Theater"? I thought casual might sound a bit less negative than amateur :)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You are losing me on the seating issue, you mentioned bean bags, I mentioned sofa which both you said were alright, theaters are various sizes and generally have several rows of seating, so how can THX equalize for all of these variables and not a coffee table or lamp?

Easy answer. A coffee table and lamps create reflections that can cause comb filtering - something eq cannot solve. A "hometheater" would not have either of these appliances, and hence not have to deal with the comb filtering these appliances create. I can account for a sofa or a love seat, they both are much like dedicated hometheater seats in terms of the absorbant and reflection pattern.



Maybe what you describe is a "screening room" and most of the general populous has "home theater"? Or, maybe there could be a distinction like "Professional Home Theater" vs "Casual Home Theater"? I thought casual might sound a bit less negative than amateur :)

A screening room is for film based sources, a hometheater for video entertainment. While both a screening room and hometheater do the same things, it does them with different sources. One is a working room, the other an entertainment room.

The word theater denotes a specific use, whether it is for a opera, play, or movie watching environment. A hometheater just replicating that same dedicated environment in somebody's home. There is nothing wrong with calling a flatpanel and a 5.1 speaker system in a living or bedroom just what it us - a television and a 5.1 system in a room. To call it anything else would be like putting lipstick on a pig, and trying to call it a model.

[Smokey]

The answer is yes. But you still have to be able to see all of the pixels that a 1080p resolution has, and that is not achievable on a television that is 50" or less....This is why Laurie Finchman of THX says that any screen size 50" and under can not meet THX's spec's - you can't sit close enough to them to see all the pixels of 1080p's resolution.


I found this chart (from SoundandVision magazine) where it show sitting distance vs seeing full resolution for 1080p source/TV.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/files/_images/200601/152006182933.jpg

For 1080i HD sources (lite green line), the recommended sitting distance is..

20 inch TV= 2.8 feet
26 inch TV= 3.5 feet
30 inch TV= 4 feet
34 inch TV= 4.5 feet
40 inch TV= 5.3 feet
50 inch TV= 6.5 feet
60 inch TV= 8 feet

Wouldn't those sitting distance below 50" TV satisfay THX spec's for seeing full resolution?

[Hyfi]

We are all so glad that you took the week to come up with something fresh and new and different


You seem to have a victims mentality.
The only thing I have been a victim of around here lately are the individuals like yourself that preach one thing on Sunday, but act the complete opposite the rest of the week


Really, a cyberbully? Are you a kid or an adult?
Yes, I am the kid who has to resort to name calling in every thread


When it comes to Hometheater, there is only one answer that is correct.
In your mind, I guess so and to the point of my first reply. You already have your answer and only posted this so you could argue with anyone that disagreed. Like we can't see right through that?



you are just an fool anyway.
Besides, I don't mind pointing out an idiot when I see one.(finger points at you)

I'm sure my employer and all my global customers would have a different opinion. But I am also sure the rest of the leaders and members of your church would be so proud to know that you actually learned and practice the lessons taught in the book you believe in. Maybe you should spend a week at Vacation Bible School where they teach it so even a child can understand it. You are the kind of people that give religion a bad name because you think as long as you show up and drop some coin on Sundays, and ask the dead guy for forgiveness, that you can treat people anyway you want and all is fine.

Losing your respect is right up there with losing an old worn out sock, it's meaningless. Not too sure why you would even think people cared about your respect in the first place but it sure leads to much amusement.

Now take another week off and see if you can find some better names to call me.

[bfalls]

Easy answer. A coffee table and lamps create reflections that can cause comb filtering - something eq cannot solve. A "hometheater" would not have either of these appliances, and hence not have to deal with the comb filtering these appliances create. I can account for a sofa or a love seat, they both are much like dedicated hometheater seats in terms of the absorbant and reflection pattern.






A screening room is for film based sources, a hometheater for video entertainment. While both a screening room and hometheater do the same things, it does them with different sources. One is a working room, the other an entertainment room.

The word theater denotes a specific use, whether it is for a opera, play, or movie watching environment. A hometheater just replicating that same dedicated environment in somebody's home. There is nothing wrong with calling a flatpanel and a 5.1 speaker system in a living or bedroom just what it us - a television and a 5.1 system in a room. To call it anything else would be like putting lipstick on a pig, and trying to call it a model.

Wouldn't changing the number of people in the theater change the sound? If you setup the room with no one in the seats, then put 6 people of different sizes and shapes in the room wouldn't it affect reflection and absorption patterns, say as much as a coffee table? I have ISF certification and pattern generator and performed EQ in many A/B and QA rooms, so I understand what you're saying, but how much is really practical for the average Joe. Also, since the delay is generated by the processor and reproduced by the side/rear (depending on format), how would a coffee table in front of the viewer effect what he hears (delay) coming from the rears.

I would say in an environment (studio) where everything has to be right because it's being recorded is one thing, but you can't follow the same practices at home or in a commercial Theater it's not practical and has diminishing returns on the investment.

I think you might agree that knowing what to listen for is sometimes a curse. You find yourself always being critical and enjoying the presentation less. For me it was tape hisssss, sibilance, and scrape flutter. Once I learned to detect and identify the artifacts, I was never happy with tape again. Original CD was better, but many were created from masters EQ'd for tape (reduced dynamic range and high freq), so until recording specific for CD became the norm CD wasn't much better than tape.

Sometimes ignorance IS bliss. For that reason we have Bose

[jjp735i]

I have to agree with both sides, but to me HT is with a movie screen and projector and of course surround. I got into backyard theater 2 years ago and love it so I decided to bring the big screen inside for the winter. I installed a hanging pull down 120" screen, it pulls down right in front of the TV. There is no comparison to watching a movie on my 50" plasma to the 120" screen. The projector and screen gives you that at the movies experience. The best part about Projector and screen and you can have a pretty good set up for under $750.oo bucks. Mine is not HD, but I think the picture is just as good if not better then my HD tv's.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

We are all so glad that you took the week to come up with something fresh and new and different.

Which is something you have not done in quite a while.



The only thing I have been a victim of around here lately are the individuals like yourself that preach one thing on Sunday, but act the complete opposite the rest of the week

Sorry, I don't preach. I don't even talk about what happens on Sunday. That is my business, and not your. If you tended to your business, you would not have time to stick your nose, or even judge mine. Victim...that choice of a word shows what a weak minded individual you are.



Yes, I am the kid who has to resort to name calling in every thread

And you are too stupid to realize that you would not get called names if you didn't make personal judgments on people on a website that talks about AUDIO.



In your mind, I guess so and to the point of my first reply. You already have your answer and only posted this so you could argue with anyone that disagreed. Like we can't see right through that?

And the purpose of my answer was to distinguish the difference between the two - because there is one. Some people here have posted some great questions, and all you have brought to the table is the off topic issue of your opinion of me - of which I don't give a flying !@#$ about. The other thing you brought was some lame a$$ explanation of a hometheater(that is outdated at best) coming from a online computer website. Do you often go to McDonalds for Chinese food?





I'm sure my employer and all my global customers would have a different opinion. But I am also sure the rest of the leaders and members of your church would be so proud to know that you actually learned and practice the lessons taught in the book you believe in. Maybe you should spend a week at Vacation Bible School where they teach it so even a child can understand it. You are the kind of people that give religion a bad name because you think as long as you show up and drop some coin on Sundays, and ask the dead guy for forgiveness, that you can treat people anyway you want and all is fine.

More personal judgement. This is why your stupid a$$ get's called names. Didn't any teach you about cause and effect? If you don't want to get called names idiot, then refrain from this kind of comment. Otherwise your stupid a$$ leaves your stupid self open for this.

You don't know a damn thing about my life, so go screw yourself


Losing your respect is right up there with losing an old worn out sock, it's meaningless. Not too sure why you would even think people cared about your respect in the first place but it sure leads to much amusement.

Then why do you keep coming back here(off topic) replying over and over again? Either you don't know how to connect the dots(no personal judgement = no name calling), or you are an idiot that is a glutton for punishment..... or both. I'll take the latter for $200 Alex......


Now take another week off and see if you can find some better names to call me.

I am not sure there is anything better than a stupid idiot than I can call you. I don't need a week to figure that out.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Wouldn't changing the number of people in the theater change the sound? If you setup the room with no one in the seats, then put 6 people of different sizes and shapes in the room wouldn't it affect reflection and absorption patterns, say as much as a coffee table? I have ISF certification and pattern generator and performed EQ in many A/B and QA rooms, so I understand what you're saying, but how much is really practical for the average Joe. Also, since the delay is generated by the processor and reproduced by the side/rear (depending on format), how would a coffee table in front of the viewer effect what he hears (delay) coming from the rears.

You are correct, bodies do absorb sound, and diffuse it as well. But once again, THX used test dummies to determine how our bodies affect the sound. Their analysis found that our bodies and heads(because the differences between humans is not all that much) more uniformly scatter and absorb sound than say a picture on a wall, or a lampshade, fireplace, or asymmetrical walls of the typical living room. The living room has doors to other rooms, open floorplans, sloped ceilings, and various other architectural things that create a non uniform asymmetrical surfaces that makes it acoustically impossible to correct with any means. So to your coffee table example would not effect the surrounds(a picture frame would do that), but it would cause comb filtering in the very place that it is undesirable - your front sound stage.


I would say in an environment (studio) where everything has to be right because it's being recorded is one thing, but you can't follow the same practices at home or in a commercial Theater it's not practical and has diminishing returns on the investment.

Well actually, the dubbing stage is nothing more than a smaller professional theater. The industry standards for both were created to insure an accurate translation of the soundtrack from the dubbing stage, to the theater, to a THX certified or properly designed home THEATER. All of my hometheaters follow the industry standards, so when I design a made for hometheater soundtrack in my THX certified studio, it will sound pretty darn close to what I hear in those dedicated rooms.

You cannot say we cannot follow the studio practices. We can, I have, and lot's of people have. That to me is the difference between a homeTHEATER, and a 5.1 system built around a flatpanel.


I think you might agree that knowing what to listen for is sometimes a curse. You find yourself always being critical and enjoying the presentation less. For me it was tape hisssss, sibilance, and scrape flutter. Once I learned to detect and identify the artifacts, I was never happy with tape again. Original CD was better, but many were created from masters EQ'd for tape (reduced dynamic range and high freq), so until recording specific for CD became the norm CD wasn't much better than tape.

Boy do I agree with this.


Sometimes ignorance IS bliss. For that reason we have Bose

LOL!

[Happy Camper]

Home theater means BIG screen. The room acoustics impact has to be tolerable to non ideal conditions/gear. A well implemented dsp program can minimize a lot.

I'd really like to do a projector but I have too much light for one. But the view has to encompass you and make you react to the illusion. If your total field of view means not even moving the eye, you aren't involved. We do have to kind a buy into the fakeness of anything less. And nothing I've seen less than 120" gives that illusion unless you sit too close to the screen. You want to have to move your head or at least move your eyes to take in the action. Today's digital remakes of the film classics are stunning. The illusion of depth is sensed from that old film technology. Today's panels are nice but are not the same. I've lived with 65" screens since 92. The quality is stunning. But it isn't smelling popcorn, looking up to see the top of the screen or moving your head to follow the action.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I found this chart (from SoundandVision magazine) where it show sitting distance vs seeing full resolution for 1080p source/TV.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/files/_images/200601/152006182933.jpg

For 1080i HD sources (lite green line), the recommended sitting distance is..

20 inch TV= 2.8 feet
26 inch TV= 3.5 feet
30 inch TV= 4 feet
34 inch TV= 4.5 feet
40 inch TV= 5.3 feet
50 inch TV= 6.5 feet
60 inch TV= 8 feet

Wouldn't those sitting distance below 50" TV satisfay THX spec's for seeing full resolution?

Smoke, you have to couple two pieces of information to understand what I am talking about. It is not about seating distance in isolation. It is also about the pixel structure of the television set itself. There are some other consideration as well. They do not make televisions that have the tight enough pixel structure for us to see ALL of the resolution of 1080p on sets smaller than 50", no matter how far you sit from it. 50" is as small as you can get for that. Secondly, you cannot integrate a sound system into the picture when your seating requirement is 2.8-4.5 feet. You would need very small speaker with their drivers very close together to accomplish that.

So your chart only works if the set has the ability to present the entire 1080p resolution in all of its glory. This is why people can notice the difference between Bluray and DVD on a 60" set, but cannot see much of a difference on a 40, 30, 26, or 20" set.

[Smokey]

Smoke, you have to couple two pieces of information to understand what I am talking about. It is not about seating distance in isolation. It is also about the pixel structure of the television set itself. There are some other consideration as well. They do not make televisions that have the tight enough pixel structure for us to see ALL of the resolution of 1080p on sets smaller than 50", no matter how far you sit from it. 50" is as small as you can get for that. Secondly, you cannot integrate a sound system into the picture when your seating requirement is 2.8-4.5 feet. You would need very small speaker with their drivers very close together to accomplish that.

Thanks Sir TT. That make sense, especially the part about being too close to TV for sound system to sound right :)

[recoveryone]

Has the smoke cleared, and the rocket attacks cease, I thought I would have to have Sec of State Clinton step in and broker a deal. LOL. I see some things are still the same, even with a new format. You guys know me and I always like to return to the root of the issues, "What is HomeTheater" A loaded question at best and many fell hook line and sinker for it. The term HomeTheater has been rebranded by the industry to lure us and ther masses into spending our extra cash and in some cases defer other responcebility of paying bills on the newest technology or upgrading to keep pace. By the true meaning of a HomeTheater, Sir TT is correct, and just to give a ideal of what he speaks of, The most recent film showing a HomeTheater is "Zombieland" where the travelers spend a night at Bill Murrys home. But back to how the industry has used this term to give the rest of us common folks a sense of pride and enjoyment trying to emulate the standards of a real HomeTheater. Most of us do not have the living space in our homes to create one or the funds to have one added to our exsisting homes or worst case those that live in an apartment. One thing we can do in the future is clearfiy the question, then state your opinion. Just my 2 cents.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Here is a buck for your two cents......

[filecat13]

Way back when (pre-Greek even), a theater was a building or outdoor area in which plays and other dramatic performances were given. It was a place you went for a certain artistic experience. Over the centuries, theaters have taken different shapes and forms and added new performance content, including film and Las Vegas shows. Yet, they always remained dedicated places where you went, designed specifically to enhance the experience.

During the intervening centuries, some democratization (and some would say bastardization) of the concept occurred in which a theater still referred to the venue, but the theater referred more broadly to the cultural context of music, plays, opera, etc. So one could go to a theater or one could bring the theater to another place, such as the street, the home, the school gym, a church rec hall, etc. So a rich person might pay key members of an operatic cast to perform numbers in the grand foyer of his home for a big party, and that brought the theater into the home, but it certainly wasn’t that the home was a theater.

People who loved the arts (and probably wanted some prestige to go along with it) sought ways to get the theater into their homes via musicians, players, acrobats, artists, poets, and playwrights who would lend prestige to the home and the event by virtue of a performance or reading that would bring the theater right to the patron’s residence for all to see and hear.

Fast forward to the marvels of technology that occurred last Century into this, and suddenly great masses of people could have all of these things come into their homes, first by audio, then by video as well. Why you could have the Metropolitan Opera and the Cleveland Orchestra right there on your Bergstrom TV or your Magnavox console stereo! Talk about technology as the great equalizer!

Of course with mass adoption comes what the Roman Patricians would call the vulgar, the debasement of fine things when dirtied by the hands of the masses. Certainly most of us realize and agree that watching Tristan and Isolde on a black and white TV is not the same as being at a Wagnerian Opera in a great hall. Fortunately, we’ve come a long way in that past half century, and now our technology gets closer and closer to the real thing, until the technology drives the art as much as the art drives the technology.

[filecat13]

A curious thing to me is the insistence of an audiophile that the goal of his or her expensive system is to reproduce the live performance. Yet fully 95% of everything they listen to is not live and never has been. It’s done take after take in a studio, sometimes one musician at a time, then mixed, mastered, and manufactured for different media at different rates of quality and EQ, until whatever semblance of “live” there was in the performance is long since lost in the quest to make a perfectly engineered album.

Then, ridiculously, if the artist or artists cannot duplicate the song note for note and dub for dub perfectly at a truly live concert, fans are upset that the musicians are unable to play the song live the way it sounded after weeks of prep work, mixing, and dubbing in a recording studio. They think that the recording is the true art, not the live performance. Amazing! (I guess this explains why lip synching is tolerated: it actually sounds "right.")

Likewise, a movie is not like real life, yet it is put together by very talented people so that, just like an album of recorded music, it has a versimilitude to it that affects us in many ways. I don’t think most normal people mistake movies for real life, though some invest a lot of their life into the movie fantasy world.

If we see Rock of Ages in a Broadway theater then again on Bluray at home, it’s not the same experience for a number of reasons. And when we see it at home, if we watch it in our bedroom and listen through our 42” flat panel’s built in speakers, it’s not the same as at the movie theater. And if we watch it on our 60” plasma and listen with our 5.1 surround sound system in our family room, it’s not the same as in our bedroom. And if we watch it in our dedicated, light controlled, acoustically treated room on our 110” screen with a professionally calibrated HD projector and listen through a balanced and professionally calibrated multichannel surround system, it’s not the same as in our living room.

So that brings us around to "home theater."

[filecat13]

The Rock of Ages example is instructive in a couple of ways.

First, there is a live action, performance-based version of it that plays out in a theater with a live audience. This is as close a you can get to theater in its original sense. It’s got the dedicated performance area, in this case a real building. It’s got actors and musicians who are doing live performance. It has an audience that reacts with approval/disapproval at the performance it sees. Being a human endeavor, it’s different every night, and there’s an inherent risk for all parties.

Second there is a major motion picture with big name stars, a huge budget, tons of marketing, and thousands of venues across the US and around the world. In this case, the final product is shown in a movie theater (or cinema), and unless something breaks, it’s exactly the same every time. The performers have all been paid and don’t need to be there. The audience is there to see a movie, probably one among many, and it could be the luck of the draw: which one starts next? Which one has Tom Cruise? Which one finishes in time for me to get home by 6?

Whatever the reason, the audience invests little other than money and some leisure time into it. If the sound is great, the story is great, and the acting is great, then they leave with a smile, and, if not, they leave with a “That’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back” attitude. The building is going to be the same regardless of what’s playing, and fans have to accept that their movie might not be on the best screen with the best sound, but what can you do?

Third, there is consumer media, be it Bluray, DVD, Netflix or iTunes streaming, whatever. This is intended to be used at home, just for you, and the FBI reminds you of that every time you use it. Since the original film was intended to be shown in a dedicated room with certain common characteristics, that is a movie theater, then it stands to reason that the closer the consumer experience gets to that standard, the better. In fact, due to the wide variances in movie houses, it’s probable that the consumer experience could be even better at home for a number of reasons.

If we look at the first two examples, live action in a theater, and motion picture in a movie theater, we’ll see certain things common to both experiences.
Dedicated venue
Controlled light
Controlled sound
Controlled seating

Movie theaters don’t show movies and Broadway musicals don’t perform in a room that is open to the lobby where the snack bar is or the restrooms are. If they did, none of the four things listed above would be possible.

Even when movies and musicals are in dedicated venues, if there’s too much light coming in from the side or the back, people get irritated, look around, and even call for someone to extinguish the errant light.

Even if movies and musicals are in dedicated venues, if there’s too much noise either in the venue or coming from outside, people get irritated, look around, go SHHhh! or go get an usher to quell the intrusive sound.

Even if movies and musicals are in dedicated venues, if people are standing up, walking around, moving from place to place, other people get irritated, look around, tell folks to sit down or leave, or they just get mad and sullen because of the inconsiderate interference.

For all these reasons, I can’t consider anything other than a dedicated room to be a true home theater. Having spent most of my life trying to make do with getting the theater into my home, I’ve had lots of entertainment set ups, including 7.1 surround rigs with big CRT projectors and big pull down screens that I wanted to believe were home theaters, but truthfully, they were not.

There was always light through the draped windows, or a family member turning on a light with disregard, or someone rustling in the kitchen and really grinding my nerves, or someone walking in front, then back out, then back in, then back out, then...I’m going to knock you upside the head if you don’t stop!!!

A theater is a place to go where all other distractions are kept outside, where everyone who’s there is expected to behave in a certain way that is generally respectful and nonintrusive (except Rocky Horror Picture Show, maybe) and enthusiastic and interested about what is happening on the screen and in the speakers. A theater is place with a set of equipment that delivers a full spectrum audio and video experience through careful design, system integration, and expert calibration.

If someone doesn’t have all that, there’s no shame in it. I’m not ashamed of the years I didn’t have it. I did the best I could until I could do better. What I had at the time were a series of pretty nice home audio/video entertainment systems. What I did not have was a home theater.

Really, if someone wants to call a 37” TV with a HTIB and Audyssey EQ a home theater, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. I’ll just smile and say, “Nice.” Why not? People should feel good about their choices, and it’s not my job to suck the air out of their lungs.

OTOH, if they ever come to visit me, I’ll let them see and hear what a home theater could be, and hopefully they’ll realize that there’s a whole lot more to do to legitimately apply the term home theater to their circumstances. Until then, home audio/video entertainment system isn’t bad, but it’s sure not as sexy as saying, “Hey, look at my home theater! It’s right here next to the front door and the guest toilet." :p (One of mine had the trifecta of front door, guest bathroom, and kitchen, plus a sliding glass door to the balcony. Woo hoo!)

[Happy Camper]

Oye........

Do credit hours come with this?

Very well expressed and I agree.

[filecat13]

Oye........

Do credit hours come with this?

Very well expressed and I agree.

No, but you can get CEUs if you register with CareerTrack or Fred Pryor Seminars. ;)

[Hyfi]

What happened to mitchellin's post above which now looks empty?

He made a brilliant observation in his last paragraph.

Also someone deleted one of my posts but not the offensive one. What is going on?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Still grasping at straws I see ^^^^^^

[Smokey]

What happened to mitchellin's post above which now looks empty?He made a brilliant observation in his last paragraph.No he didn't. One don't just join a forum and start calling member a name. He needs to grow up.

[maeaguilar]

Home theater or home cinema, consists of ff:

Wide screen TV, speakers, amplifier, DVD player and the best home theater receiver (http://topbestprice.com/top-20-best-selling-home-theater-receivers/)!

[Hyfi]

No he didn't. One don't just join a forum and start calling member a name. He needs to grow up.

Oh right, you have to be a member for a while first, then you can call people names. I forgot about the mandatory waiting period in the rules.

[JohnMichael]

What happened to mitchellin's post above which now looks empty?

He made a brilliant observation in his last paragraph.

Also someone deleted one of my posts but not the offensive one. What is going on?



He deleted his own post which was a good call on his part.

I could not find where one of your posts had been deleted.

[Hyfi]

He deleted his own post which was a good call on his part.

I could not find where one of your posts had been deleted.

Between #11 and #12 on page one, but I did not delete it. Also, it used to say that it was deleted and by who, now it just looks messed up.

Interesting as to how newbies catch on real quick isn't it?

[JohnMichael]

Between #11 and #12 on page one, but I did not delete it. Also, it used to say that it was deleted and by who, now it just looks messed up.

Interesting as to how newbies catch on real quick isn't it?


The only post of yours that was deleted shows it was deleted by you. I was looking for a post that was deleted by a mod. Only you or a mod can delete one of your posts.

[Hyfi]

The only post of yours that was deleted shows it was deleted by you. I was looking for a post that was deleted by a mod. Only you or a mod can delete one of your posts.

Thats odd since I never deleted one but never mind

[recoveryone]

Still grasping at straws I see ^^^^^^

Hey I have an Ideal which I think gets over looked when having these type of disscusions. Those of us that have an actual HomeTheater = great
Those of us that own HomeTheater gear = moving in the right direction

Will that solve everyones point of view?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hey I have an Ideal which I think gets over looked when having these type of disscusions. Those of us that have an actual HomeTheater = great
Those of us that own HomeTheater gear = moving in the right direction

Will that solve everyones point of view?

My point of view on this has long been resolved. As you have eloquently stated - there is a hometheater, and then there is hometheater GEAR. Having the gear is just having the gear, it is not a hometheater. I think most people in this hobby understand this.

The problem here is when you point out the obvious difference between having the GEAR, and having the dedicated room AND GEAR, you are going to have some winey PC baby crying that you are arrogant, and just bragging about your money (rolls eyes)

[recoveryone]

No problem from me, I know where to find you!!!! :D

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

No problem from me, I know where to find you!!!! :D

LOLOLOLOL!! I feel a drive by coming on....

[filecat13]

LOLOLOLOL!! I feel a drive by coming on....

That's why I live back off the street. Too many people breaking in and tagging the old place.

:incazzato:

[recoveryone]

I better clean this up before the FBI get involved. Sir TT and I live in Cali and Its no secert he has done work for Disney, which is only 45min drive from my home. I hold no ill feeling towards him, but aspire to one day share in his wonderful hometheater. :)