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Smokey
09-06-2012, 06:48 PM
A stream of box-office hits and classics, including the Indiana Jones films and Titanic, are queued up for release on Blu-ray Disc as part of a concerted campaign to cement the high-definition format's place in your living room.

Despite Blu-ray video and sound superiority to DVD, the format is growing at a slower pace than expected. Meanwhile, the momentum of streaming video threatens to snuff out some consumers' love of movies on physical discs as it lessens the likelihood that "somebody goes and buys a Blu-ray movie or rents it," says Phil Swann, president of TVPredictions.com.

Studios see their window closing -- not real quick, but closing slowly, Swann says. They want to "get these classic movies out there and sell them now, because we aren't exactly sure what the environment is going to look like a year from now." A number of landmark films are hitting Blu-ray for the first time in this fall, among them are classics such as Lawrence of Arabia.

Bluray is 6 years old and more than one-third of U.S. homes have Blu-ray Disc players--including a Sony PlayStation 3 game system--where at this point in DVD's lifespan, about half of U.S. households had a DVD player. However the consulting firm expects Blu-ray movie disc sales will surpass DVDs by 2015.

Blu-ray caught in shift to streaming - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/MONEY/usaedition/2012-08-24-BluRay-DeathRay_CV_U.htm)

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-07-2012, 08:15 AM
A stream of box-office hits and classics, including the Indiana Jones films and Titanic, are queued up for release on Blu-ray Disc as part of a concerted campaign to cement the high-definition format's place in your living room.

Despite Blu-ray video and sound superiority to DVD, the format is growing at a slower pace than expected. Meanwhile, the momentum of streaming video threatens to snuff out some consumers' love of movies on physical discs as it lessens the likelihood that "somebody goes and buys a Blu-ray movie or rents it," says Phil Swann, president of TVPredictions.com.

Studios see their window closing -- not real quick, but closing slowly, Swann says. They want to "get these classic movies out there and sell them now, because we aren't exactly sure what the environment is going to look like a year from now." A number of landmark films are hitting Blu-ray for the first time in this fall, among them are classics such as Lawrence of Arabia.

Bluray is 6 years old and more than one-third of U.S. homes have Blu-ray Disc players--including a Sony PlayStation 3 game system--where at this point in DVD's lifespan, about half of U.S. households had a DVD player. However the consulting firm expects Blu-ray movie disc sales will surpass DVDs by 2015.

Blu-ray caught in shift to streaming - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/MONEY/usaedition/2012-08-24-BluRay-DeathRay_CV_U.htm)

This article is totally misleading. In the first half of this year, Bluray sales were up 13.3% over the first half of 2011. 2011 first half sales were up over 2010 first half.

Yes streaming subscription are growing quickly, but it still represents a fraction of entertainment dollars when compared to disc.

E-Stat
09-07-2012, 08:57 AM
Yes streaming subscription are growing quickly, but it still represents a fraction of entertainment dollars when compared to disc.
And that is estimated to reverse in 2016.

"Video-streaming revenue, which accounted for about $2.8 billion in 2011, will reach $6.7 billion by 2016, PwC estimates. That will surpass disc sales, which are expected to decline from about $9 billion in 2011 to about $5.5 billion in 2016."

As with high rez music, the video public clearly prefers convenience especially since choice is in no way limited as is the case with the music industry.

Smokey
09-07-2012, 10:08 PM
As with high rez music, the video public clearly prefers convenience especially since choice is in no way limited as is the case with the music industry.

But unlike music, video is not as mobile :)

Probably most of disc sale decline can be contributed to decline in DVD sales as title availability in that catagory is becoming less selective, and for being inferior to bluray in term of picture quality.

E-Stat
09-08-2012, 05:08 AM
But unlike music, video is not as mobile :)

I'm glad your being facetious as devices like iPhones and iPads are exceptionally portable. On my phone, I have videos of my wedding, a parachute jump and an ice skating programs with my wife.

Currently on her iPad is the third season of the TV series Emergency! and a funny movie called A Mightly Wind. She frequently streams Netflix movies on it, too.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-08-2012, 03:45 PM
And that is estimated to reverse in 2016.

With sales rising year over year, that estimate is based on what? And quite frankly, who in the hell is endowned to predict what is going to happen four years from now?


"Video-streaming revenue, which accounted for about $2.8 billion in 2011, will reach $6.7 billion by 2016, PwC estimates. That will surpass disc sales, which are expected to decline from about $9 billion in 2011 to about $5.5 billion in 2016."

As with high rez music, the video public clearly prefers convenience especially since choice is in no way limited as is the case with the music industry.

Sorry, but the model for the music industry is quite different than that of the film industry. Mixing the two together shows a profound ignorance of how each work in the market. While DVD sales are falling, Bluray sales are trending upwards at a faster rate than streaming subscriptions are. And with the caps that both telecoms and the cable industry are putting on, who is to say that streaming subscriptions won't trend downwards as caps are lowered as a result of too much streaming traffic.

Predictions had HD DVD beating Bluray back in the day because of the price of the players. We see how that turned out don't we.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-08-2012, 03:51 PM
I'm glad your being facetious as devices like iPhones and iPads are exceptionally portable. On my phone, I have videos of my wedding, a parachute jump and an ice skating programs with my wife.

Currently on her iPad is the third season of the TV series Emergency! and a funny movie called A Mightly Wind. She frequently streams Netflix movies on it, too.

Your experience is not transferable to the masses. The television as a viewing choice still by far is the most preferred viewing device, and that trend leans in that way more year over year.

E-Stat
09-08-2012, 05:25 PM
While DVD sales are falling, Bluray sales are trending upwards at a faster rate than streaming subscriptions are. And with the caps that both telecoms and the cable industry are putting on, who is to say that streaming subscriptions won't trend downwards as caps are lowered as a result of too much streaming traffic.
Best of luck to your counter to industry trends estimate.

E-Stat
09-08-2012, 05:29 PM
Your experience is not transferable to the masses. The television as a viewing choice still by far is the most preferred viewing device, and that trend leans in that way more year over year.
Sorry that you completely missed the point. Let's review it, shall we?

But unlike music, video is not as mobile

Are you really of the opinion that video is NOT mobile? If so, then apparently you are completely unaware of the concept of smart phones and pad based computers that are network enabled. Wake up!

Smokey
09-08-2012, 11:44 PM
Are you really of the opinion that video is NOT mobile? If so, then apparently you are completely unaware of the concept of smart phones and pad based computers that are network enabled. Wake up!

I thought the video trend was going for bigger screen, not smaller :nonod:

If you had an option to play a movie on a mobile device or on a big screen TV with full sound (DTS-HD :D) for enjoyment and not for passing time, which one would you opt for?

E-Stat
09-09-2012, 04:57 AM
If you had an option to play a movie on a mobile device or on a big screen TV with full sound (DTS-HD :D) for enjoyment and not for passing time, which one would you opt for?
My answer is exactly the same as it would be for music: Depending upon location, either!

I enjoy listening to 7 foot tall stats driven by 600 watt tube amps. I also enjoy wearing Shure IEMs when I'm out of the house. I enjoy watching the 65" DLP driven by 1.5 kW of power. I also enjoy watching movies on an iPad when I'm out of the house.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-09-2012, 05:17 PM
Best of luck to your counter to industry trends estimate.


Best of luck relying on a estimate rather than actual figures reported by NDP. Based on actual figures, streaming subscriptions would have to jump 400% year over year to catch the sales of disc. It is not growing that fast now, has not in the past, and there is no sign it will in the future.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-09-2012, 05:21 PM
Sorry that you completely missed the point. Let's review it, shall we?

But unlike music, video is not as mobile

Are you really of the opinion that video is NOT mobile? If so, then apparently you are completely unaware of the concept of smart phones and pad based computers that are network enabled. Wake up!

Sorry that you have me mixed up with Smokey. I never said video was not portable. I said that folks still watch video on the televisions FAR more than their phones or Ipads. That is a undisputable fact that even Neilson's surveys confirm.

Get your $hit straight Ralph.

E-Stat
09-09-2012, 06:59 PM
Best of luck relying on a estimate rather than actual figures reported by NDP. Based on actual figures, streaming subscriptions would have to jump 400% year over year to catch the sales of disc. It is not growing that fast now, has not in the past, and there is no sign it will in the future.
Understand that my observation has nothing to do with my preference for higher quality, but the objective realization that for at least the past four years - physical media has consistently dropped in sales while online/streaming has increased. Every single year.

Do you really think that something will reverse that trend? Given the priorities of the current generation, I sure don't. Nor do the experts.

E-Stat
09-09-2012, 07:06 PM
Sorry that you have me mixed up with Smokey. I never said video was not portable.
Except of course for the comment that triggered my response:

"The television as a viewing choice still by far is the most preferred viewing device, and that trend leans in that way more year over year."

If that were the case, then iTunes movie rentals would never have gotten off the ground instead of increasing in volume year over year. How many generic households have their computers connected to their TVs to view the 50,000 movies downloaded every day? Folks view those movies on mobile Apple enabled devices.

Smokey
09-09-2012, 11:18 PM
If that were the case, then iTunes movie rentals would never have gotten off the ground instead of increasing in volume year over year. How many generic households have their computers connected to their TVs to view the 50,000 movies downloaded every day? Folks view those movies on mobile Apple enabled devices.

But not everybody have mobile Apple enabled devices :)

I have my PC connected to TV and watch alot of streaming, and seeing alot of other folks doing the same thing that have PC or internet enable devices such as TV and bluray players.

Unless we see some numbers/link that breaks down percentage of streamings/downloads for internet enable devices (including PC), and percentage for mobile devices such as smartphones, then it is just an assumption what we are doing is the industry trend.

thekid
09-10-2012, 01:56 AM
I like so many others have been late to the table on Blu-Ray in part because of its cost. Add in the fact that many people just spent money not too no long ago for their High-Def DVD players it is easy to see why sales have lagged.

However as is my way I will be taking my first plunge into Blu-Ray via the used gear market. This weekend I found an older Sony Blu-Ray player stacked among the regular DVD players at a local Goodwill for $20. It is in good shape and appears to play well. I have to get a remote for it to access all of its features but that should not be a problem. I will be curious to compare it to my Oppo players once I get it up and running.

E-Stat
09-10-2012, 05:06 AM
But not everybody have mobile Apple enabled devices
That does limit the audience to about 150,000,000 for all those iTunes based downloaded movies. :)

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-10-2012, 12:36 PM
Understand that my observation has nothing to do with my preference for higher quality, but the objective realization that for at least the past four years - physical media has consistently dropped in sales while online/streaming has increased. Every single year.

Do you really think that something will reverse that trend? Given the priorities of the current generation, I sure don't. Nor do the experts.

Here is the problem with your analysis. There no meat, it is all air. DVD sales have certainly been dropping, It is a mature format whose sales will soon be eclipsed by Bluray. They no longer market DVD as a premiere way of watching movies on disc. Sales of movies on Bluray has risen year after year since inception, and there is no indication that it is slowing...ZERO.

When you lump everything together in one great big pot, it makes it impossible to see the picture clearly. Streaming subscription while growing are still just a very small fraction of the entertainment dollar. I think we need to wait to see where the telecoms and cable company's are going with their caps on data. If they lift them, the game is afoot for streaming. If the caps get more widespread or get lowered, then there is no chance in hell for streaming to catch up anytime soon.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-10-2012, 12:40 PM
That does limit the audience to about 150,000,000 for all those iTunes based downloaded movies. :)

iTunes movie rentals are a tiny slice of the itunes store. According to my friend who works at Apple, it is not doing very well sales or rental wise. Business has been flat as a pancake for about two years. Music sales, different story altogether.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-10-2012, 12:47 PM
Except of course for the comment that triggered my response:

"The television as a viewing choice still by far is the most preferred viewing device, and that trend leans in that way more year over year."

If that were the case, then iTunes movie rentals would never have gotten off the ground instead of increasing in volume year over year. How many generic households have their computers connected to their TVs to view the 50,000 movies downloaded every day? Folks view those movies on mobile Apple enabled devices.

Ralph, you ever heard of Apple TV? That is why movie rentals were started in the first place - to sell Apple products. And you are wrong. Apple movie rentals and digital sales have not been increasing at all. According to my NDP report, it is flat. Overall streaming is increasing,, but that is thanks to Netflix and Youtube, not Apple.

When you say downloads, you have to be specific. Youtube and Netflix make up most of those downloads. Apple is almost out of the picture in comparison.

E-Stat
09-10-2012, 12:50 PM
Here is the problem with your analysis. There no meat, it is all air. DVD sales have certainly been dropping, It is a mature format whose sales will soon be eclipsed by Bluray. They no longer market DVD as a premiere way of watching movies on disc. Sales of movies on Bluray has risen year after year since inception, and there is no indication that it is slowing...ZERO.
You focus on DVD sales. The report data speaks of combined physical media totals. Sure, BR is finally replacing DVD. And losing ground to downloads/streaming.


When you say downloads, you have to be specific
Everything except physical media. A decreasing number of folks are buying shiny disks.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-10-2012, 12:55 PM
Understand that my observation has nothing to do with my preference for higher quality, but the objective realization that for at least the past four years - physical media has consistently dropped in sales while online/streaming has increased. Every single year.

Do you really think that something will reverse that trend? Given the priorities of the current generation, I sure don't. Nor do the experts.

Ralph, the experts predicted that HD DVD would beat Bluray. We know how that turned out. A prediction is no precursor for reality. It is just a prediction.

Not all physical media has consistently dropped in sales. Bluray does not fit into that statement. DVD and CD most certainly do, and both are mature formats that are being overtaken by other sources.

You need to stop lumping everything together - it paints a very inaccurate picture of the market overall. The devil is in the individual ingredients, not in the finished soup.

E-Stat
09-10-2012, 12:58 PM
Not all physical media has consistently dropped in sales.
A 20% increase in a vastly smaller number doesn't offset a 20% decrease of a far larger number. Physical sales have been falling off for years.


You need to stop lumping everything together - it paints a very inaccurate picture of the market overall.
Feel free to get mired in the details and miss the forest.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-10-2012, 01:32 PM
You focus on DVD sales. The report data speaks of combined physical media totals. Sure, BR is finally replacing DVD. And losing ground to downloads/streaming.

Combined data does not always tell the story does it. While overall disc sales are dropping, when look at more careful show that DVD and CD are dragging down overall disc sales. The only physical media that is doing well is Bluray. If you look even closer, you will see that Bluray on premiere titles have now become consistently half of all disc sales. That shows the weakness of DVD, and the strength of Bluray. In the first quarter of this year, Bluray saw a 13.3% increase, while DVD saw a 10.6% drop.



Everything except physical media. A decreasing number of folks are buying shiny disks.

A decreasing number of folks are buying fewer CD and DVD. I know many people like myself that do not buy either. I support high rez downloads and Bluray disc.

There is a huge reason the studios are rushing to get high value catalog titles out there. They sell EXTREMELY well, and if Bluray sales are falling - then they would not bother as it costs a lot of money to remaster these titles.. These catalog titles will not be offered on DVD, they have already been released on that format.

There is not a single survey conducted that shows that streaming is replacing Bluray, or even losing ground to it. Folks who want quality, don't look to streaming. Those who don't care about quality, go to streaming. Two different kinds of folks, with two different choices.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-10-2012, 01:54 PM
A 20% increase in a vastly smaller number doesn't offset a 20% decrease of a far larger number. Physical sales have been falling off for years.

DVD and CD sales have been falling for years. Sorry, but NDP does not present data in clumps. It parses out each individual format, and then gives the total. It a more accurate picture of the industry as a whole.



Feel free to get mired in the details and miss the forest.

The forest consists of individual trees just like physical disc consists of individual formats. The forest is not just one big tree. If a lot of trees in the forest are dying, but there are some that are not - all of the forest is not dying.

Who's mired the one that ignores the detail(and therefore paints in inaccurate picture, or the person who the capacity to recognize it exists and get a better picture of what the industry is actually doing. Only simple minded people look at clumps of data and come to a conclusion.

E-Stat
09-10-2012, 02:00 PM
Combined data does not always tell the story does it.
When the question addressed by the story is physical or digital, the answer is yes.


While overall disc sales are dropping, when look at more careful show that DVD and CD are dragging down overall disc sales
Who's talking about CDs? This article is about video. Music lost the battle a while ago.


That shows the weakness of DVD, and the strength of Bluray. In the first quarter of this year, Bluray saw a 13.3% increase, while DVD saw a 10.6% drop.
Now translate those percents to units to provide the complete story of falling sales. The total market for both video physical formats is down. Last year. This year. Most likely, next year, too.

edit: a found a sales graph showing relative changes.



There is not a single survey conducted that shows that streaming is replacing Bluray, or even losing ground to it.
That's not what the article is saying. It simply observes the obvious: like music before it, it won't be many years before more people consume video via streaming vs. physical media. That doesn't say BR or DVDs totally go away. They become less significant players.

Mr Peabody
09-10-2012, 02:24 PM
I'm afraid those who want quality are a minority. That is one parallel between the movie and music industry I bet will hold true. The economy may have some impact but I think if people felt strongly about quality that Blu ray would be much further along than it is.

I personally hope both CD and BDP continue to be sold as I have not embraced streaming. Even when putting music on a mp3 player for travel it was music from my own collection for the most part.

I have to admit I am pretty surprised myself how fast streaming is growing. Sir T, when you had this argument before with former posters who no longer show up here I was pretty sure you were going to be right, but since then streaming is like an outbreak. I have no numbers, I'm just going by what I see people around me doing. We also have to consider streaming is almost available on any device, receivers, video disc players, TV's and other devices especially for streaming. I personally haven't seen any recent info on capping, in fact, some cable companies are boasting faster speeds than ever offered before.

My experience with streaming so far, I let my kids try some free content from Dish over the internet connection, which I admit may not be the best, but the movie consistently paused so the stream could catch up, that would drive me crazy and to download completely to watch removes the convenience. I won't order PPV at $6.99 a title, that's 1/2 or 1/3 the price of the disc, I'd just asoon buy the disc.

Mr Peabody
09-10-2012, 02:30 PM
One other thing, a friend of mine is a big streamer of video and it seems his big draw is the endless selection and being able to buy Ala Carte, watch what ever he wants when he wants. This would probably trump quality pretty big since none of us have the space or money to own every single movie and TV series.

E-Stat
09-10-2012, 02:37 PM
I'm afraid those who want quality are a minority. That is one parallel between the movie and music industry I bet will hold true.
Have you ever been to a public environment - airport, restaurant, bar, barber shop, auto/tire dealer, hotel, etc. where the flat video monitor was NOT distorting the native 4:3 picture into a 16:9 perspective? That drives me nuts. I don't like the stretched world of fat faced people, but apparently others DON'T EVEN NOTICE.

Even when folks have HDTV capability with its increased resolution and wider aspect ratio, some folks like my wife's parents choose to watch the low-def version. They just don't care that much.

RGA
09-10-2012, 05:52 PM
Personally, I am not a videophile - I owned Laserdisc but the reason I bought LD was for the wide screen format which was difficult to get on VHS. LD prices were so high that I would rent and record them onto tape.

The problem with youth is that they figure anything on the net is free and with torrents they can download pretty much any TV series/movie/music for free. Yes Blu-Ray is better than DVD or what you get from a torrent but most people don't care.

There is too much competition from alternate forms of entertainment - and people make less money.

If a kid has X dollars he spends it on a video game and a iPhone related stuff and will download the music and movies for free. It's much harder to download video games.

LPs interestingly should be the music industries' dream. You can copy it to a computer but it requires a lot more work - and time. You have to play the whole album in real time. The owner actually gets some cover art and a physicality to the artist they are buying which makes it more of a keepsake. CD was practically worthless on that front but way better than disposable download in bits inside a computer. It's wrong of course but people just don't see stealing unless it is a physical thing being taken - they don't see digital bits floating in cyberspace as stealing. Asia certainly doesn't - they have laws but no one enforces them. I can go to China tomorrow and buy any Blu-Ray in perfect Blu-Ray copy of any motion picture (including some not in theaters yet - promo-copies) and pay $1 US. In those markets there are tons and tons of tourists buying them up in droves. You can't do that on LP and you can't do that on LD. By allowing machines to be sold to the public that can copy Blu-Ray to Blu-Ray and CD to CD and DVD to DVD you are basically saying - here steal everything.

The manufacturers gave people the record button and then wonder why people actually use the button. :confused:

Smokey
09-10-2012, 08:06 PM
My experience with streaming so far, I let my kids try some free content from Dish over the internet connection, which I admit may not be the best, but the movie consistently paused so the stream could catch up, that would drive me crazy and to download completely to watch removes the convenience.

IMO that is one main reason preventing video from going completely mobile (unlike music). Unless you have wifi hot spot at home or at remote locations, you will be limited at what you can watch on mobile devices.


Have you ever been to a public environment - airport, restaurant, bar, barber shop, auto/tire dealer, hotel, etc. where the flat video monitor was NOT distorting the native 4:3 picture into a 16:9 perspective? That drives me nuts. I don't like the stretched world of fat faced people, but apparently others DON'T EVEN NOTICE.

So you don't like watching distorted the native 4:3 picture into a 16:9 TV, but don't mind watching movies and TV shows on a tiny hand held devices? I rather watch the former :)


Asia certainly doesn't - they have laws but no one enforces them. I can go to China tomorrow and buy any Blu-Ray in perfect Blu-Ray copy of any motion picture (including some not in theaters yet - promo-copies) and pay $1 US.

China seem to use different rules concerning copy right laws for music and video. For example, if you go to China's main search engine...

ٶһ£֪ (http://www.baidu.com)

....you will see a link for tons of MP3s. I can not play any of MP3s due to my location (outside China), but I bet it is free to listen to them in China. I never seen such a link in western search engines.

E-Stat
09-10-2012, 08:33 PM
So you don't like watching distorted the native 4:3 picture into a 16:9 TV, but don't mind watching movies and TV shows on a tiny hand held devices? I rather watch the former :)
I watched the Apollo 11 moon landing on a 19" B&W Zenith. I can handle a 10" iPad just fine when the image is not distorted.

BTW, WiFi is available in lots of places, including Starbucks, McDonalds and on Delta flights while aloft. :)

Smokey
09-10-2012, 10:02 PM
BTW, WiFi is available in lots of places, including Starbucks, McDonalds and on Delta flights while aloft. :)

And I hope you're not spending hour and half at Starbuck or McDonalds watching movies :D

E-Stat
09-11-2012, 04:57 AM
And I hope you're not spending hour and half at Starbuck or McDonalds watching movies
While having a meal, just enough time to watch a 20 minute TV episode you missed or an oldie you would like to watch again on Hulu or Netflix . :)

Mr Peabody
09-11-2012, 06:53 AM
LOL, the football head effect, it drives me crazy.

Smokey, video is mobile because it's downloaded and stored on the mobile device, streaming is some what available for mobile devices as Estat mentioned but I suspect most people load up what they want to view before traveling.

bobsticks
09-11-2012, 06:04 PM
I think we need to wait to see where the telecoms and cable company's are going with their caps on data. If they lift them, the game is afoot for streaming. If the caps get more widespread or get lowered, then there is no chance in hell for streaming to catch up anytime soon.

I believe this will be extremely impactful.

It's kind of hard to debate hard numbers but I think RGA brings up a thoughtful point when he looks at behaviors/preferences because it opens up a values paradigm.

And, let's be honest...Hollywood has been putting out such complete drek that I suspect a lot of folks don't see the utility in plopping down $25 or $30 for great quality on something they barely want to watch once.

Mr Peabody
09-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Check this out, the speed;
Google Fiber: Google announced Sunday that it will be building high-speed Internet out for at least 180 of the 220 qualifying neighborhoods in Kansas City as part of its effort to roll out 1-gigabit connections.

The company declared the effort to be a complete success. This number has blown us away and its not even the final tally, wrote Google Access General Manager Kevin Lo in a company blog post.

Feanor
09-12-2012, 04:56 AM
I believe this will be extremely impactful.

It's kind of hard to debate hard numbers but I think RGA brings up a thoughtful point when he looks at behaviors/preferences because it opens up a values paradigm.

And, let's be honest...Hollywood has been putting out such complete drek that I suspect a lot of folks don't see the utility in plopping down $25 or $30 for great quality on something they barely want to watch once.
Now that I'm getting 25 Gbps I find streaming works very well. All my streaming is from Netfix presently, though I would like a provider with a bigger selection. Other than Netfix, I rent discs from Zip.ca whose price is less than C$3 per disc.

{edit}I meant to mention that my download limit is pretty good -- 300 GB per month.{/edit}

We have 400-600 DVDs around here, mostly bought by my wife deeply discounted. Thing is, most of them have been watched only once -- and a few never watched. I simply will not plop down $25-30 for for something we'll watch once or twice, consequently I buy only a few discs such as operas and a very few, favorite rewatchers such as LoTR and 5th Element.

GMichael
09-12-2012, 06:25 AM
Right now, when I spend $20-30 on a BR disk, I get, 1 in 3D, 1 2D, 1 DVD and 1 digital. I can watch the 3D with family, the 2D when company comes over. My daughter can watch the DVD in her room, and we download the digital to our laptop and phones. We end up watching many of them over and over. Sometimes several times a day (anyone with a 3 year old at home should be able to relate) Can downloads do the same for me? Can I watch them in any/every room of my house 20, 30, or 50 times?

Mr Peabody
09-12-2012, 01:34 PM
For the young who seem not to tire of the same show over & over & over, that's where we use the DVR, record the shows from the channel onto the harddrive.

E-Stat
09-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Right now, when I spend $20-30 on a BR disk, I get, 1 in 3D, 1 2D, 1 DVD and 1 digital. Can downloads do the same for me? Can I watch them in any/every room of my house 20, 30, or 50 times?
With a streaming service and decent bandwidth, you can watch content as many times as you wish - albeit NOT in 3D nor BR quality.

Do you buy BR disks of every movie you choose to watch? That would get far too pricey for me. I use Netflix to view and stream far more movies (and TV series) than I care to purchase in BR format. Whenever I buy a movie, however, I always prefer the BR version if that is available - which is not always the case with older movies.

Smokey
09-12-2012, 07:50 PM
Whenever I buy a movie, however, I always prefer the BR version if that is available - which is not always the case with older movies.

I wonder if bluray will fill the void (especially as you sid such as older movies) left by DVDs as less and less tiltes are becoming available on DVDs. I imagine cost of remastering the film for bluray format might be one reason the void might not get filled, especially with less popular titles.

E-Stat
09-13-2012, 04:38 AM
I wonder if bluray will fill the void (especially as you sid such as older movies) left by DVDs as less and less tiltes are becoming available on DVDs. I imagine cost of remastering the film for bluray format might be one reason the void might not get filled, especially with less popular titles.
I suspect that it really isn't cost effective to remaster everything in BR. Like the CD before it, the DVD will likely soldier on - if not in decreasing numbers year by year.

GMichael
09-13-2012, 05:14 AM
With a streaming service and decent bandwidth, you can watch content as many times as you wish - albeit NOT in 3D nor BR quality.

Do you buy BR disks of every movie you choose to watch? That would get far too pricey for me. I use Netflix to view and stream far more movies (and TV series) than I care to purchase in BR format. Whenever I buy a movie, however, I always prefer the BR version if that is available - which is not always the case with older movies.

I don't buy every movie I watch. Cable is my main source for movies. Often, I'll record a movie that I think my daughter will like (IE: Rio, Ice Age, Finding Nemo, etc.) After she has watched it a few dozen times she starts asking to see it on 'her TV'. Those are the ones I buy. When I buy a movie, I like to be able to play it on any and/or all of our TV/displays. I'm sure that many of them will get played for years to come.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-17-2012, 12:35 PM
I believe this will be extremely impactful.

It's kind of hard to debate hard numbers but I think RGA brings up a thoughtful point when he looks at behaviors/preferences because it opens up a values paradigm.

And, let's be honest...Hollywood has been putting out such complete drek that I suspect a lot of folks don't see the utility in plopping down $25 or $30 for great quality on something they barely want to watch once.

Here the reality on streaming. I am reading more and more comments from the CEO of Netflix complaining about data caps the telecoms and cable company's are instituting. But you have to notice something else here. Why has no streaming company come forward as a industry leader? It is because the studios don't want any one streaming company to be powerful, they want to keep the leverage their way. So they either make exclusive deals, or they makes the same deal with everyone so no one comes out ahead.

The second thing is as streaming becomes more and more popular, the cost of content is going to go through the roof - which means higher prices. So, you have data caps, a real potential for higher prices, and difficulties getting quality content.

bobsticks
09-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Here the reality on streaming. I am reading more and more comments from the CEO of Netflix complaining about data caps the telecoms and cable company's are instituting. But you have to notice something else here. Why has no streaming company come forward as a industry leader? It is because the studios don't want any one streaming company to be powerful, they want to keep the leverage their way. So they either make exclusive deals, or they makes the same deal with everyone so no one comes out ahead.

The second thing is as streaming becomes more and more popular, the cost of content is going to go through the roof - which means higher prices. So, you have data caps, a real potential for higher prices, and difficulties getting quality content.

That makes a lot of sense and fairly represents the supply side of the equation.

At the same time, Feanor's scenario...from the demand side...resonates within my little "kanoggin", if only because I can barely list ten movies within the last 4 or 5 years that I'd want to rent right now much less own for multiple viewings.

The only thing that's sure is that the quality-minded consumer is caught between a rock and a hard space.

GMichael
09-18-2012, 12:52 PM
For the young who seem not to tire of the same show over & over & over, that's where we use the DVR, record the shows from the channel onto the harddrive.

We do the same. Eventually though, she starts asking to see it in her room.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
09-18-2012, 01:28 PM
I wonder if bluray will fill the void (especially as you sid such as older movies) left by DVDs as less and less tiltes are becoming available on DVDs. I imagine cost of remastering the film for bluray format might be one reason the void might not get filled, especially with less popular titles.


Not exactly Smoke. Warner and Paramount are about to release some high value catalog titles that they have spent millions remastering and restoring. Why would they do this? Because they more than make their money back in sales of those titles.

Disney has restored many of their classics for the same reason - they sell like hotcakes.

RGA
09-18-2012, 10:23 PM
I understand the industry doing everything it can to protect copyright so they have lawsuits against people who will never possibly be able to afford the fines and they try to take down a torrent site and 5 more pop out as soon as one goes down.

But this is not lost dollars. The people who download the stuff for free - are not suddenly going to buy the things that they downloaded. It's not like they're going to see a sizable amount of revenue.

Rich people can simply walk into a Best Buy and buy 100 new release Blu Ray titles without even glancing at the price tag. These people never download because they can watch anything they want whenever they want. Further they can bring their family of five to every movie opening and buy everyone the large Coke and popcorn - the same people who buy season tickets behind home plate to the Yankees.

I am not rich by any means but I am a LOT richer in Hong Kong than I was and that affords me the ability to spend money at a restaurant or bar without really blinking that I could not do before.

And that's the reality - the poor people or borderline midlle class I suspect make up 95% of the "stealers" (downloaders). Take them to court and fine them $675,000 as was apparently recently done and lots of luck ever seeing that money. It's an exercise in futility.

I didn't buy a Blu-Ray unless it was under $20.

I made it my policy. The simple reason for this is I don;t like pissing money into the toilet to support the out right greed of the industry. I learned my lesson when I paid $70 for the boxed collector set of Schindler's List on DVD and 2 months later it was on sale for $24.99. And now with Blu-Ray all of the DVDs are basically worthless. And I watched other things - Star Trek TNG season began life at $170 per season - and dropped to $49 and it would go $62 and some seasons would be $39.

They charge whatever they think they can get and sadly if people simply wait them out you will see the real price - which will be drastically lower.

This all goes back to the financial class system - you're rich you buy it - you're poor you download.

So the best way to get money to support the film and music industry is to tax the hell out of the hardware and anything that can be recorded to. Canada implemented a per blank disc tax which was pretty hefty.

Before the tax went into affect I purchased about 200 blank CDs and DVDs. The tax basically double or tripled I can't remember the price of each disc.

You accept that people will copy and you say right "The hard drive is $120 there will be a $350 support the industry tax" on each drive. Rich people won't care - they're still going to buy the blu ray not download it because they want the case they want the quality and besides they have a massive home where they can put the stuff. The poor guy sis going to copy because he always would but you made him at least give some money to the industry.

And remember once the hard drive blows up in 4-7 years he has to buy another drive and pay another tax.

SIN taxes work - use them.

Feanor
09-19-2012, 04:36 AM
....
So the best way to get money to support the film and music industry is to tax the hell out of the hardware and anything that can be recorded to. Canada implemented a per blank disc tax which was pretty hefty.

You accept that people will copy and you say right "The hard drive is $120 there will be a $350 support the industry tax" on each drive. ...
I can't agree; there are too many application for recording hardware that have nothing to do with pirating copywrited material.

E-Stat
09-19-2012, 03:04 PM
Canada implemented a per blank disc tax which was pretty hefty.

Before the tax went into affect I purchased about 200 blank CDs and DVDs. The tax basically double or tripled I can't remember the price of each disc.
That's pretty funny. And all those who listen via their mobile players or music servers just smiled at the suckers!


The hard drive is $120 there will be a $350 support the industry tax
Fortunately, NO ONE in his right mind here would support such a ludicrous attack on the legitimate use of data storage to *protect* an entirely unrelated industry.

Smokey
09-19-2012, 05:26 PM
This all goes back to the financial class system - you're rich you buy it - you're poor you download.

That don't sound right as I know alot of poor folks that own discs because they care about quality. More appropriate sentence would be :

If you care about picture/sound quality, you buy it. If you want convenience , you download :)

RGA
09-20-2012, 12:28 AM
Well there was recent debate to add a levy to iPod and Mp3 players.

Artist/musician Sophie Milman recently address this

Nightwish "The Phantom Of The Opera" with lyrics - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VgLKXD-BoY&feature=fvst)

Feanor
09-20-2012, 04:20 AM
Well there was recent debate to add a levy to iPod and Mp3 players.

Artist/musician Sophie Milman recently address this

Nightwish "The Phantom Of The Opera" with lyrics - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VgLKXD-BoY&feature=fvst)
I take personal offence at the suggestion that I ought to pay a lot more money for any device to recompense Sophie Milman much less Nightwish (or Andrew Lloyd Webber).

RGA
09-20-2012, 04:22 PM
Yeah two posts at the same time and I guess I didn't copy it well

Sophie Milman (jazz musician) at the Toronto Copyright Consultation - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjHbLts78QQ)

I take great offense to fining someone $675,000 for uploading 30 songs. These lawsuits are a massive drain on my tax dollars and yours because these people will never be able to pay it off.

In the US you can be jailed for not paying fines (so you know Harper wants that too). This is silly because if you can't afford to pay the fine how can you pay it from jail? If you're not jailed and you make $400 week it will take 108 years to pay it back if they garnished wages say at a 20% clip.