Offers

[okiemax]

Occasionally I read reports on this Forum of money being offered to anyone who can demonstrate detecting an audible difference between two cables in a scientific test. I have never seen one of these offers spelled out, and I am curious about the details. Perhaps pctower or someone else who knows law would disagree, but I don't think an offer means much unless it is presented in a way that makes it's acceptance a legally binding contract or agreement. Can anyone post a copy of such an offer?

[mtrycraft]

Occasionally I read reports on this Forum of money being offered to anyone who can demonstrate detecting an audible difference between two cables in a scientific test. I have never seen one of these offers spelled out, and I am curious about the details. Perhaps pctower or someone else who knows law would disagree, but I don't think an offer means much unless it is presented in a way that makes it's acceptance a legally binding contract or agreement. Can anyone post a copy of such an offer?


I guess then, you always make a legal contract when you bet with friends too? Office pool, etc?

Maybe Richard will poke his head in although he has been absent for a long while but he is at AA from time to time.
Or, if you are in England, Stewart Pinkerton has a similar offer on Rec Audio Hi End. There was a $4k offer on rec audio opinion where I am part of the deal. Don't need a legal contract to pay off my share.

[bturk667]

Might be an easy way to make a few bucks!

[okiemax]

I guess then, you always make a legal contract when you bet with friends too? Office pool, etc?

Maybe Richard will poke his head in although he has been absent for a long while but he is at AA from time to time.
Or, if you are in England, Stewart Pinkerton has a similar offer on Rec Audio Hi End. There was a $4k offer on rec audio opinion where I am part of the deal. Don't need a legal contract to pay off my share.

If someone is serious about an offer to pay anyone who can discern an audible difference between two cables, he should be willing to fully describe this offer and present it in a way that its acceptance will be legally binding. If he is not willing to provide a complete description of his proposal, anyone entertaining the offer would not know exactly what they are accepting. And If the person making the offer is not willing to enter into a contract, I don't see how he would be under any legal obligation to do anything.

Perhaps a serious proposal will be posted. Until that happens, I don' know why talk of offers should be taken seriously.

[mtrycraft]

If someone is serious about an offer to pay anyone who can discern an audible difference between two cables, he should be willing to fully describe this offer and present it in a way that its acceptance will be legally binding. If he is not willing to provide a complete description of his proposal, anyone entertaining the offer would not know exactly what they are accepting. And If the person making the offer is not willing to enter into a contract, I don't see how he would be under any legal obligation to do anything.

Perhaps a serious proposal will be posted. Until that happens, I don' know why talk of offers should be taken seriously.


Don't take it seriously. Don't accept the challenge. It must be fraud, especially if you could expose that offer after passing the test.
And what if it is in writing? Will you take such a test?

[mtrycraft]

Might be an easy way to make a few bucks!


That is a long might. The RAO and the one in England has been around a long time with no winners:)

[okiemax]

Don't take it seriously. Don't accept the challenge. It must be fraud, especially if you could expose that offer after passing the test.
And what if it is in writing? Will you take such a test?

Show me a concrete offer I can review.

[mtrycraft]

Show me a concrete offer I can review.


There is nothing in writing. You are out of luck and will never find out how good your golden ears really are :)

But, maybe you can entice Richard Green?

Or, I guess you are not interested in sitting down for nothing?

[okiemax]

There is nothing in writing. You are out of luck and will never find out how good your golden ears really are :)

But, maybe you can entice Richard Green?

Or, I guess you are not interested in sitting down for nothing?

There is no problem for me. I don't want to take part in one of these contests anyway. I was just interested in finding out if anyone was serious enough to make a formal offer. Also, I wanted to examine formal offers because I thought how logistical and technical problems were addressed might be interesting.

[mtrycraft]

There is no problem for me. I don't want to take part in one of these contests anyway. I was just interested in finding out if anyone was serious enough to make a formal offer. Also, I wanted to examine formal offers because I thought how logistical and technical problems were addressed might be interesting.


I am sure if a person wants such a legal document, that could be done for that person. No blaknket document exists.
Why not ask about the technical aspects then?

Usually minimum of 10 trials, 16 or 20 is better, 95% confidence level must be reached, forced choice, levels matched to .1dB spl usually at 100 Hz, 1kHz, and 10kHz., DBT protocol, either an ABX box or manual switching which would require no contact between the one who swaps. Answers written, signed, graded after the testing.

[okiemax]

I am sure if a person wants such a legal document, that could be done for that person. No blaknket document exists.
Why not ask about the technical aspects then?

Usually minimum of 10 trials, 16 or 20 is better, 95% confidence level must be reached, forced choice, levels matched to .1dB spl usually at 100 Hz, 1kHz, and 10kHz., DBT protocol, either an ABX box or manual switching which would require no contact between the one who swaps. Answers written, signed, graded after the testing.

If a formal offer in writting does not currently exist, just post one that used to exist. I would like to see how logistical and technical problems are addressed in an actual offer rather than discuss these issues in the abstract. Even if the offer is no longer open, the document still would be interesting.

[mtrycraft]

If a formal offer in writting does not currently exist, just post one that used to exist. I would like to see how logistical and technical problems are addressed in an actual offer rather than discuss these issues in the abstract. Even if the offer is no longer open, the document still would be interesting.


I have not seen one or anyone ask for one. You are the first, of course.
You may want to read this:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=c66jgb01g4o%40news4.newsguy.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Drec.audio.high-end

Apparently there is or was a $10K offer for amps, and well before this, there was an offer of $10k for measured effects of demagnetizing a CD. You are the first to ask for a legal document I know of.

But, it really doesn't matter as you would not participate one way or another. Moot.

[okiemax]

I have not seen one or anyone ask for one. You are the first, of course.
You may want to read this:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=c66jgb01g4o%40news4.newsguy.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Drec.audio.high-end

Apparently there is or was a $10K offer for amps, and well before this, there was an offer of $10k for measured effects of demagnetizing a CD. You are the first to ask for a legal document I know of.

But, it really doesn't matter as you would not participate one way or another. Moot.

I am puzzled as to why you think my interest in this subject doesn't matter. I guess I just assumed if there was a formal written offer, everyone would be allowed to see it. Are you saying a person would have to agree to accept an offer before you would give him a full description of what he has accepted? Hmmm... that might explain why we don't hear more about this thing.

Re the 10k offer on amps, there was one on car amps that later may have been extended to home amps. I don't know whether this offer is still open. As you can see, there is a fairly detailed technical description of the test and the conditions.

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18815

[mtrycraft]

I am puzzled as to why you think my interest in this subject doesn't matter. I guess I just assumed if there was a formal written offer, everyone would be allowed to see it. Are you saying a person would have to agree to accept an offer before you would give him a full description of what he has accepted? Hmmm... that might explain why we don't hear more about this thing.

Re the 10k offer on amps, there was one on car amps that later may have been extended to home amps. I don't know whether this offer is still open. As you can see, there is a fairly detailed technical description of the test and the conditions.

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18815


If there was a formal written offer, you would see it. there is none as far as I know, but that does not preclude one being drawn up for a person who so insists. But who will to get into a pissing contest in court about the validity of the test, its outcome, etc.

No, I am not saying anyone has to accept any test before knowing what to expect and what will be involved, how many trials, what scores needed to pass. You may also misunderstand. It is a one way transaction. When you loose, you don't owe anything.

Interesting link. His statistics is not necessary but it is his game. No one will take his $10k with 100% correct. Why would anyone even try?