Time for a new TV

[topspeed]

The 'ol JVC LCOS has served me well for many years, but the relentless march of progress has rendered it obsolete by today's standards. I've really been waiting for OLED, however the new sets are priced at $8k and I refuse to spend that much for a set that will be $2k in 3 years. As I don't really follow video trends, I'm once again dipping into the trusty well of knowledge at AR.

The room is very well lit, in fact the entire side and back walls are pretty much glass, so it has to be brighter than the sun and a matte (or non-glare) screen is a plus. Viewing distance is 12' with off axis viewing approximately 6' off center as well.

The Panasonic VT series plasma seems to be the darling of the press, although I'm concerned about both power consumption (CNET estimated 6x higher than a comparably sized LED/LCD) and light output. The price is nice, tho. Back in the day, you could trust Sony to build a great set, but it seems Samsung has stolen their thunder recently. I have no brand allegiance whatsoever, I'm just looking for the best bang for the buck.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

[Florian]

We own a Panasonic TX-P42GW10 (42" Plasma with 600Hz) and are very happy with it. We have the TV since 3 years.
Sunny days are not a problem and since i own a V12 car and 8 amplifiers to drive a stereo.... power consumption has not had peaked my curiosity yet :-)

[Jack in Wilmington]

Nice to see you Topspeed, hope life is being kind to you.

I have two Panasonic plasmas, but with your light issues, I would opt for an LCD. With the 12' viewing distance, I'd go with a 60" set and the Samsung UN60D6400 would be a great addition. It has great features and a very low power consumption. I have a 40" Samsung in the bedroom and it's a great set except for the audio, but that's a problem on a lot of flat panels.

[topspeed]

Hey, Flo! I should have guessed power wouldn't be a concern for you, LOL! If you're still driving those panels, I'd imagine that's the least of your concerns. Excess power consumption equals excess heat, and since it was over 110 degrees all last week, my A/C doesn't need anything else to contend with. Still, there is little doubt the Panasonic plasma's are the top guns according to the reviews I've read. Thanks for your input.

Hey, Jack, things are going very well, thanks! I'm curious why you suggested the D6400 over the ES8000? My short list is the Sammy 55ES8000, Panny 55VT50 (or ST50) and the Sony 55HX850. Perusing other forums revealed a possible issue with dead pixels on the Sony, but I'm not completely sure. Also, while I'd prefer 60" or bigger, I'm limited by a built-in entertainment center that I doubt will fit it. I'll have to measure to be sure, but my current 52" leaves very little room for error. With today's zero bezels tho, you never know!

Tell me little more about how your plasma's deal with the ambient light. The Sammy and Sony are rated as very good for blacks, especially for LCD's, but everyone on the planet seems to recognize the dominance by Panny's plasma's.

Thanks for the input, guys.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Hey, Flo! I should have guessed power wouldn't be a concern for you, LOL! If you're still driving those panels, I'd imagine that's the least of your concerns. Excess power consumption equals excess heat, and since it was over 110 degrees all last week, my A/C doesn't need anything else to contend with. Still, there is little doubt the Panasonic plasma's are the top guns according to the reviews I've read. Thanks for your input.

Hey, Jack, things are going very well, thanks! I'm curious why you suggested the D6400 over the ES8000? My short list is the Sammy 55ES8000, Panny 55VT50 (or ST50) and the Sony 55HX850. Perusing other forums revealed a possible issue with dead pixels on the Sony, but I'm not completely sure. Also, while I'd prefer 60" or bigger, I'm limited by a built-in entertainment center that I doubt will fit it. I'll have to measure to be sure, but my current 52" leaves very little room for error. With today's zero bezels tho, you never know!

Tell me little more about how your plasma's deal with the ambient light. The Sammy and Sony are rated as very good for blacks, especially for LCD's, but everyone on the planet seems to recognize the dominance by Panny's plasma's.

Thanks for the input, guys.

I guess the reason that I picked the D6400 was that it was under $2k. Now that I look back at your post I see that the $2k was just an arbitrary number that you threw out there. I bought a 46" Panny for my home theater room because I only have one window in the room and with a woods behind me I never get any direct sunlight in that window. I originally had the 40" Sammy in the Family Room and when we decided to go to a 50", I decided to try another Panny as it is a very dark room with no light issues.

[Woochifer]

Hey Speedy, good to hear from you ...

Of course, I'm a little bit partial to the Panny plasmas, given that I've owned one for almost four years now. As you've pointed out, OLED seems to hold out the most promise, but it's not even at the early adopter stage yet. So, we're left with LCD and plasma, both of which have notable tradeoffs.

Basically, with LCD, you got higher light output, generally lower energy consumption, and more options with the video processing (whether it's an advantage depends on how you view the motion interpolation feature [i.e., "MotionFlow" or "Motion Plus"]). But, LCD has issues with off-angle viewing, and motion resolution (which needs local backlight dimming or motion interpolation in order to improve the performance).

With plasma, you get wider viewing angles, better color accuracy and contrast, and true motion resolution performance without the need for additional processing. The tradeoff is a generally heavier set, higher energy consumption, and lower maximum light output.

Obviously, I'm biased given that I chose plasma four years ago, and would do it again based on my experience. The choice basically comes down to your priorities. If the light output and energy consumption are high priorities, then that balances more in favor of LCD. If you want more of a "filmlike" picture with movies in particular, then plasma's the way to go.

My room is fairly bright, but I tweaked with the settings in the showrooms and even in a bright demo room, I thought the picture looked good. If you're used to a calibrated picture, you will likely dial the picture settings on your TV well below the maximum brightness, even on a plasma.

The AVS Forum has a lot of threads for specific TV models, including the calibrated settings that people use on their TVs. Might be a good idea to jot them down for the models you're interested in, and use that to adjust the picture to something closer to reference spec in the showroom. You will want to adjust the demo TVs anyway to try and match the actual picture as closely as possible, because every manufacturer (and even different models made by the same company) use different default settings.

With energy consumption, most LCDs are fixed, while plasma power usage will vary depending on the material (i.e., watching a hockey game will consume a lot more power than a Batman movie). In general, especially compared with LED backlights, the plasmas will use more energy, even though the current generation of plasmas use a lot less energy than the ones from five years ago.

As for specifics. With plasma, you should look for sets that have true 24p playback (Panasonic calls it "cinematic playback"). It basically reduces juddering when watching movies and other film-based sources. When I was in the market, only the high end Pioneers had that feature, but it more common now.

With LCD, you will want to look for full LED backlighting, not the edge-lit models found in the lower price ranges. With full LED backlighting, the backlights are sequentially dimmed in different places to match the image. It increases the contrast and improves the motion performance and color accuracy.

You should also look at the motion interpolation feature. It has the effect of smoothing out the motion, but it also creates what videophiles call "the soap opera effect" where it makes everything look like it was shot on video. Some people like it, other hate it. You should judge for yourself. If you like it, then you're limited to LCD. Except with some LG models, the feature can be disabled.

[texlle]

I love the Samsung and LG LCD panels, both made by Samsung. For the money, it doesn't get much better than these. My biggest complaint is the lack of contrast in low light scenes but the vividness of colors and picture detail far outweighs this small drawback. It has all the features and adjustability you'd come to expect with an easy to use GUI menu. I like the look of the Sony and Panasonic panels but they seem to be a little higher than the comparable Korean set.

[Florian]

Hi topspeed,

no worries about my input. Yep, i still run my massive panels. But i use 6 x 60 Watt SET tube monoblocks and still use two fat Krells for the subwoofer. In total 44 tubes :-) :-) Nice and comfortably warm......

My neighbor has a 60" Samsung LED TV which is also very nice!

[topspeed]

The AVS Forum has a lot of threads for specific TV models, including the calibrated settings that people use on their TVs. Might be a good idea to jot them down for the models you're interested in, and use that to adjust the picture to something closer to reference spec in the showroom. You will want to adjust the demo TVs anyway to try and match the actual picture as closely as possible, because every manufacturer (and even different models made by the same company) use different default settings. Way ahead of you brother! I've already got the settings for all three tv's.


With energy consumption, most LCDs are fixed, while plasma power usage will vary depending on the material (i.e., watching a hockey game will consume a lot more power than a Batman movie). In general, especially compared with LED backlights, the plasmas will use more energy, even though the current generation of plasmas use a lot less energy than the ones from five years ago. The wife ruled out plasmas for this very reason last night. Combined with the energy and heat already emanating from the electronics stack, the Panny was eliminated.


With LCD, you will want to look for full LED backlighting, not the edge-lit models found in the lower price ranges. With full LED backlighting, the backlights are sequentially dimmed in different places to match the image. It increases the contrast and improves the motion performance and color accuracy.
The only local dimming LED I could find was the very expensive Sony HX929 ($700 more than both of the other LED's I'm considering, but a home run from what I've read) and the ridiculously expensive Sharp Elite ($2500(!) more, but the state of the LED art w/ blacks deeper than the mythical Kuro). With OLED and 4K about 3-4 years from becoming affordable, it doesn't make sense for me to go for the brass ring when it's going to be outdated this fall. Thus, I'm stuck with edge lit.

Thanks for all of the tips as well, I'll make sure to pay attention to those features.

You know, audio is so much easier; you either like the way it sounds or you don't. All of these processing features and "smart tv" gizmos are ridiculous! Samsung should make a tv with the panel and performance from the 8000 but without all of the interactive crap that I don't want and sell it for $1,200. I'd buy THAT!

It does sound like Sammy has the edge based on your input. Thanks!

[dean_martin]

Good to "see" ya, speedy! I look forward to your impressions when you pull the trigger.

[BadAssJazz]

Please do give us a review once you get the new TV.

[recoveryone]

110! you must live in the valley or IE like me, and along with that humid air we had, it has been a bit nasty. Chin up, old Karth on KABC says cooler temps are headed our way.

[topspeed]

Dino! Good to see all of my old friends as well. Recoveryone, I'm here in the sweltering Central Valley where it's "cooled down" all the way to 99 today. Fall can't get here soon enough! I'll make sure I post my impressions once I get whatever I decide on. I'm not sure how much insight I'll be able to give, like I said I'm not much of a videophile, but I'll give it the 'ol college try.