Old Records Are Outselling New Ones

[Smokey]

In the two decades since Nielsen Soundscan started to keep track of U.S. album sales in 1991, the company has seen the industry fold in half, digital sales catch up to physical, and vinyl mount a resurgence. But until last week, they'd never seen old records outsell new ones.

With 150.5 million albums sold first half of the year, 76.6 million were catalog records (industry term for albums released more than 18 months ago), compared to 73.9 million current albums.

"That's a combination of two things: not having the big blockbuster new releases in the first half, and having very, very strong catalog," says Nielsen analyst David Bakula.

The top-selling catalog records of the year so far include Guns N' Roses' Greatest Hits and four records by Whitney Houston who died February. Bakula says the biggest reason catalog has been so strong is that record labels and retailers continue to drop the price of older albums, often to as low as $5.99 or $7.99. Those prices, sometimes half of what they once were, are bringing in new customers.

Old Records Are Outselling New Ones for the First Time - Orange County - Music - Heard Mentality (http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2012/07/old_records_are_outselling_new.php)

[Hyfi]

Yup, and this comment from the bottom of that page sums it all up. Most of today's music sucks and is not worth buying.

""NURREDIN

It's not the price.it's the CONTENT. People don't want to listen to the crap the major labels are putting out,and the majors just don't get it. They complain about illegal downloading,but they don't realize people place NO VALUE on the junk they're producing. People will pay for quality music. Adele and Sade don't have any problems selling cd's.Give us the quality music that was made in the 70's,80's, and 90's and we'll pay for it.""

[mlsstl]

There's also an alternative explanation.

It is hardly unusual that new music is often dismissed as inferior by the older generation. My parents thought the Beatles and such were a poor substitute for Tommy Dorsey, Frank Sinatra and the others they grew up with. Remember that Bach was almost fired from his first job as a church organist 300 years ago. The church elders thought his weird playing was distracting the congregation.

It's really pretty standard stuff throughout history that new artists and composers are often reviled by their elders. It's hardly news that there's a lot of new music that middle aged audiophiles don't like. (And yes, there are always exceptions, but we're talking general trends here.)

Now, combine that with the trend of falling CD sales for the past 10 years (CD sales are about one-third of what they were in 2000) and you have a modern generation that simply isn't buying music the same way as prior generations.

As such, it is no surprise that "catalog records" (i.e., the old stuff) is now a high percentage of sales. They are reselling new copies of the same music to old customers at cheap prices.

[RGA]

Well what is surprising is that I can buy any new release Madonna, Lady Gaga, Sarah McLachlan, Jackson Browne and EVERY other major selling artist's album on vinyl or even suped up 180g pressings but yet I can't get any of them on SACD or other hi res formats.

[mlsstl]

Well what is surprising is that I can buy any new release Madonna, Lady Gaga, Sarah McLachlan, Jackson Browne and EVERY other major selling artist's album on vinyl or even suped up 180g pressings but yet I can't get any of them on SACD or other hi res formats.

First of all, of the 4 artists you mention, only Lady Gaga has any attraction for young people, and I think she's more teeny-bopper based. The other three are aged dinosaurs selling to the people who liked them 15, 20 or more years ago. (McLachlan's debut album was 1988, Madonna's was 1983, and grandpa Browne hit the scene in 1972.) This pretty much illustrates my prior observation.

As for hi-rez, the various formats offering it simply haven't taken off.

[Feanor]

Well what is surprising is that I can buy any new release Madonna, Lady Gaga, Sarah McLachlan, Jackson Browne and EVERY other major selling artist's album on vinyl or even suped up 180g pressings but yet I can't get any of them on SACD or other hi res formats.
High resolution is superfluous to their style of music.

[E-Stat]

High resolution is superfluous to their style of music.
I beg to differ. The dynamics and punch from a nearly uncompressed 12" 45 RPM Madonna single will knock your socks off. Ironically, there are zero hi-rez digital equivalents.

The only time I opened up a fuse with my older Acoustats (fuse case was hot!) was playing a series of them.

[Feanor]

I beg to differ. The dynamics and punch from a nearly uncompressed 12" 45 RPM Madonna single will knock your socks off. Ironically, there are zero hi-rez digital equivalents.

The only time I opened up a fuse with my older Acoustats (fuse case was hot!) was playing a series of them.
I understand what your saying, but consider (1) that market simply doesn't demand hi-rez sufficiently to invoke a supply, (2) most of the music is significantly compressed which negates one (but not all) of hi-rez' advantages, and (3) I was partly just dissing that style of music. :wink5:

[E-Stat]

I understand what your saying, but consider (1) that market simply doesn't demand hi-rez sufficiently to invoke a supply,
That is ultimately the problem regardless of music genre.


(3) I was partly just dissing that style of music. :wink5:
:)

BTW, I'm more of a Prokofiev guy, but I do enjoy some EMI versions of the Shostakovich 5th and 8th symphonies. Kinda heavy stuff, but nice.

[Feanor]

That is ultimately the problem regardless of music genre {lack of hi-rez recordings}. ...
I suppose this was RGA's main point.


...
BTW, I'm more of a Prokofiev guy, but I do enjoy some EMI versions of the Shostakovich 5th and 8th symphonies. Kinda heavy stuff, but nice.
Shostakovich is a favorite of mine ... gets my vote for greatest 20th century composer. But arguably there been more great, (not to mention very fine), composers of classical music in the 20th century than any previous.

Check out Shostakovich' chamber music. He wrote 15 string quartets that are amongst the finest in that genre; No. 8 and 10 are likely the most famous. Other really great chamber works are Piano Quintet G Minor Op.57, Piano Trio No.2, E minor Op. 67, and Sonata for cello & piano in D min Op.40.

[E-Stat]

I suppose this was RGA's main point.
And that you CAN find more expensive to produce 180g vinyl for those artists, but not just another shiny disc.


Shostakovich is a favorite of mine ... gets my vote for greatest 20th century composer. But arguably there been more great, (not to mention very fine), composers of classical music in the 20th century than any previous.
Do you like Copeland?


Check out Shostakovich' chamber music. He wrote 15 string quartets that are amongst the finest in that genre; No. 8 and 10 are likely the most famous. Other really great chamber works are Piano Quintet G Minor Op.57, Piano Trio No.2, E minor Op. 67, and Sonata for cello & piano in D min Op.40.
Thanks for the tips!

[mlsstl]

My favorite Shostakovich story is from "Musicophilia" by Dr. Oliver Sacks. During WWII Shostakovich was in the fire brigade in St. Petersburg (Leningrad) and received a shrapnel injury to his brain from an incoming German shell.

Medical services were poor and they couldn't remove the metal at that time. He healed with the shrapnel in place but discovered that when he tilted his head a certain way, he heard original music.

After the war, Russian doctors offered to remove the metal piece, but Shostakovich refused -- he feared he would lose his muse.

His life story is also a good illustration of just how fickle the Soviets were in terms of attempting to control art and music in official support of their ideology.

[Feanor]

My favorite Shostakovich story is from "Musicophilia" by Dr. Oliver Sacks. During WWII Shostakovich was in the fire brigade in St. Petersburg (Leningrad) and received a shrapnel injury to his brain from an incoming German shell.

Medical services were poor and they couldn't remove the metal at that time. He healed with the shrapnel in place but discovered that when he tilted his head a certain way, he heard original music.

After the war, Russian doctors offered to remove the metal piece, but Shostakovich refused -- he feared he would lose his muse.

His life story is also a good illustration of just how fickle the Soviets were in terms of attempting to control art and music in official support of their ideology.
This is not a story I've ever heard before. But in any case Shostakovich had a long, tense history with Soviet authorities. As a matter of self-preservation he developed the habit of lying about what motivated his music and what the music represented

[Feanor]

...
Do you like Copeland?
...
I like Copland though have only a couple of recordings. One is the classic Louis Lane & Atlanta Symphony recording on Telarc that includes Rodeo, Appalachian Spring, and Fanfare for the Common Man. I consider it a example of early but remarkably good RBCD.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eknz4CYWL.jpg

[mlsstl]

This is not a story I've ever heard before. But in any case Shostakovich had a long, tense history with Soviet authorities. As a matter of self-preservation he developed the habit of lying about what motivated his music and what the music represented

I've seen other references to his WWII time in Leningrad with some mentioning an injury, but this is the only account I've read with these details. That's why I gave the reference, (though authenticating the biographic details of composers' lives is not a hobby of mine.)

Dr. Sacks is a well respected writer on things involving the brain and "Musicophilia" is a fascinating book on many levels. It's a great read if you like that sort of stuff.

[E-Stat]

I like Copland though have only a couple of recordings. One is the classic Louis Lane & Atlanta Symphony recording on Telarc that includes Rodeo, Appalachian Spring, and Fanfare for the Common Man. I consider it a example of early but remarkably good RBCD.
I have that version too, both on vinyl and CD. As a former resident of Atlanta, I've been to one of Lane's performances of that piece.

While that is likely the best sounding version of the three I have, my favorite version is Aaron Copland conducing himself with the LSO in 1970. The performance is crisper and more emotional to these ears. Once again, I have it on both vinyl and CD. Oddly though, the 2003 remaster contained a different mix of other stuff. The original vinyl release also had the Henry Fonda narrated version of Lincoln Portrait while the CD remaster included Rodeo and Old American Songs

The original cover with Lincoln on it and the remaster with Copland himself.

[RGA]

The only way these formats take off is if you actually produce albums that SELL. It doesn't matter if Madonna's CD was compressed - this is the biggest selling female artist out there since the 1980s - Lady Gaga is the current biggest selling artist along with say Adele who certainly has the voice quality for pop that deserves a good recording - unfortunately the recordings tend to suck but that still isn't the point. There must be a non sucky master around someplace because they manage to come up with remasters of many mainstream pop/rock artists and wouldn't you know they're not uncompressed dredge but 5/5 star caliber as good as a Patricia Barber disc as you can get.

Ok Jackson isn't a big seller - and Sarah sort of fell off a cliff for me after "Surfacing" but it's not the point.

Old farts and a tiny minority of old farts listening to Mozart (and we're knocking Jackson for being old - at least he hasn't been dead for centuries - is not going to be able to satisfy the Sony/Philips marketing machine.

Young people weren't interested. It's not about recording quality either since in most cases all the classical and Jazz artists ALSO come out on vinyl as well. You get all the old fart music AND you get the mainstream bubble gum pop - and the alternative rock - and the underground trance/house hip-hop dub step etc. (DJ's kept vinyl alive - not audiophile - though there are certainly FAR FAR more audiophiles into vinyl than SACD).

It's not that SACD is bad or anything - it's just that they failed miserably to market it properly.

Any new format that you want to "take over" the world by storm you have to START with mainstream music and convince people through auditions that it is vastly superior (especially if you charge double for it). Even if you have to cheat and put out truly lousy recordings on CD and then remaster it put it out on SACD and blow the CD to the weeds. No instead stores came out demoing Hotel California - which is patently ****ty on SACD and that was the "young person's" music - chortle chortle.

Adele might be a target market - she's a bit different than usual pop - good voice but her recordings are dreadful - Make a brilliant recording put it out as a remaster on SACD and have a B&M that will demonstrate why it's better.

I have several Madonna LP's that walk all over most any recording period - not compressed massive dynamic scale. Hell even her CDs up to Ray of Light have been quite good - then they went to piss - I even tried a vinyl of Hard Candy - not that I liked the album but I basically wanted the thing just to have it and unfortunately the vinyl sucks as well (for sound).

But if you want to know why people like vinyl over CD - listen to the LP of Sarah McLachlan's "Touch" versus the CD. What a fraking drubbing that is. Or 45s of Vogue or anything Like A prayer or before versus CD. And this is just pop - Jazz it's even more embarrassing.

Hi res is better but of course there is no selection. I looked through the SACD catalog - it's painful. Fortunately Blu-Ray may be the answer in time.

[Feanor]

I've seen other references to his WWII time in Leningrad with some mentioning an injury, but this is the only account I've read with these details. That's why I gave the reference, (though authenticating the biographic details of composers' lives is not a hobby of mine.)

Dr. Sacks is a well respected writer on things involving the brain and "Musicophilia" is a fascinating book on many levels. It's a great read if you like that sort of stuff.
I wasn't questioning the story, BTW.

[Feanor]

...
But if you want to know why people like vinyl over CD - listen to the LP of Sarah McLachlan's "Touch" versus the CD. What a fraking drubbing that is. Or 45s of Vogue or anything Like A prayer or before versus CD. And this is just pop - Jazz it's even more embarrassing.

Hi res is better but of course there is no selection. I looked through the SACD catalog - it's painful. Fortunately Blu-Ray may be the answer in time.
I'd be fine with Blu-ray, hi-rez download, or SACD; vinyl, no way.

Sir Terrence protests notwithstanding, Blu-ray music is next to non-existent. Hi-rez downloads are likewise extremely scarce. SACD is also very scarce except to classical where it is merely quite limited.

[E-Stat]

I looked through the SACD catalog - it's painful. Fortunately Blu-Ray may be the answer in time.
Forget boomers like me who grew up with vinyl and were the ones who largely bought SACD and BR music.

Do you honestly believe the majority of Millenials will embrace the notion of putting down their iPods and actually having to spin a shiny disk for each piece of music they want to hear? Always carry around their Case Logic tote with their collection? It's one thing to do that once every two hours to watch a movie. For each song? It is they who will determine what will survive in the market, not hi-fi geeks like us.

As for me, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that will ever come to pass. :) The genie is already out of the bottle. For geezers like me, too. This week, I just replaced the ten year old GamuT CD-1 upstairs with an Audio Research DAC and another Squeezebox Touch network player.

[Hyfi]

Hey, did you hear they are dropping SB for a newer product line?

[E-Stat]

Hey, did you hear they are dropping SB for a newer product line?
I learned that yesterday, but alas there will be no "newer product line". Read this story from one of the original developers whose take seems to suggest that Logitech corporate considered the SB as not mainstream enough. The decision was made some time ago and the "replacement" is just a radio.

Back Story (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?96188-New-Squeezebox-Radio&p=714488&viewfull=1#post714488)

I had purchased my second Touch as a backup a while ago for a song when Logitech ran a sale on them. I now know why! I may well get another one before they're gone.

Fortunately, there are apps which allow other devices to leverage the Squeezebox server concept.

[emaidel]

I like Copland though have only a couple of recordings. One is the classic Louis Lane & Atlanta Symphony recording on Telarc that includes Rodeo, Appalachian Spring, and Fanfare for the Common Man. I consider it a example of early but remarkably good RBCD.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eknz4CYWL.jpg

That was the very first CD I bought when I bought my first CD player back in 1984. It always impressed the snot out of me, but the DSD-remastered, 2-channel SACD version of it is remarkable. There used to be sites where you could actually purchase that SACD for $5 or less, but I think today it's virtually impossible to find since Telarc no longer exists thanks to the "wisdom" of Concord Music, who purchased them and managed to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[emaidel]

. SACD is also very scarce except to classical where it is merely quite limited.

I have to disagree. There are currently over 6,000 titles on SACD, mosty classical. Go to arkivmusic.com and check under "SuperAudio CD," and you'll find an extensive listing of classical titles available. Also, the BIS label produces exclusively SACD's (no CD's or LP's) and continues to release new titles on a regular basis.

[mlsstl]

I have to disagree. There are currently over 6,000 titles on SACD, mosty classical. Go to arkivmusic.com and check under "SuperAudio CD," and you'll find an extensive listing of classical titles available. Also, the BIS label produces exclusively SACD's (no CD's or LP's) and continues to release new titles on a regular basis.

6,000 sounds like a real big number until you consider that an Amazon search for classical CDs shows over 389,000 titles. SACD albums represent only 0.15% of what's available on CD.

No doubt that the current "big" classical titles have decent coverage, but that still leaves an enormous amount of classical music -- over 99% -- only available on CD. (Out-of-print LPs have been intentionally left out of this discussion, but including them would only make the situation worse for SACD.)

[Feanor]

That was the very first CD I bought when I bought my first CD player back in 1984. It always impressed the snot out of me, but the DSD-remastered, 2-channel SACD version of it is remarkable. There used to be sites where you could actually purchase that SACD for $5 or less, but I think today it's virtually impossible to find since Telarc no longer exists thanks to the "wisdom" of Concord Music, who purchased them and managed to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Hi, emaidel, it was nice to hear from you.

Indeed, ArkivMusic has a great selection of SACDs, but their 3200 is a far cry from the many tens of thousands of CDs, including over 10,000 "ArkivCD" which are otherwise discontinued and only available from ArkivMusic.

In fact CD and SACD versions of the Telarc Copland are still available from Amazon.com, see HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Copland-Appalachian-Hindemith-Symphonic-Metamorphosis/dp/B0006A9GN6/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1346712243&sr=1-6). This is a good thing. :22:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z4H0ziYJL._SS500_.jpg