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RGA
05-10-2012, 07:08 PM
So a squirrel to the rescue - if you can get past the voice - he's a smart little guy :-)

Gay Marriage : Foamy The Squirrel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KLMYaF_Xa8&feature=player_embedded)

and just of the fun of it

RGA
05-10-2012, 07:11 PM
Posting from a Catholic institution which bans the use of words associated with non theocracy or same S partners. LOL

Gay Marriage : Foamy The Squirrel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KLMYaF_Xa8&feature=player_embedded)

JohnMichael
05-10-2012, 07:32 PM
A blast from the past and why I came out on AR.

http://forums.audioreview.com/off-topic-non-audio/marriage-gay-couples-dont-mix-9031.html

RGA
05-11-2012, 03:42 AM
As a straight guy I could never ever understand homophobia. I frequently say "I Love Gay Men"

People would look in shock and I would say "the more gay men there are the less competition there is for me with the ladies." When you're not Brad Pitt every bit helps. Besides gay men also had the stereotypes of being hard bodies - yeah that guy is well dressed and great looking - he's probably gay.

I remember going to a Gay nightclub in Korea as part of the Hash House Harriers running club (their motto is "A drinking club with a running problem). Great club - 17000 all around the world in most every major city. A lot of silly fun.

Anyway, whilst in the club a guy walked by me and cupped me. Whaaat? OMG? I was stunned. M'eh - after the initial shock I thought - "I got it going on when a gay guy is into me." I was wearing a terrific red shirt with black leather jacket. Besides it was the only bar in town playing Madonna. And I like Madonna in a nightclub.

I have a wildly interesting group of friends from the blue collar redneck towns to Mormons and pastors. One of my closer friends is a professional dominatrix partnered to a man who just had an operation to get breasts.

I know a hot Lesbian couple - and like the Squirrel - I'd LOVE if they moved in next door since they're also exibisionists.

It's sex - who cares. Some guy likes to get spanked or tied up why does anyone care? Two girls want to get married - again who cares? Granted Lesbians are reducing my opportunity pool so I like them less than Gay men :rolleyes5: :-)

Although I'm a lesbian in a man's body. Yeah I tried that line a couple of times on some lesbian friends - hey it was worth a try.

I don't know why the west is so paranoid about showing a breast on film - that will get you rated R or X but slaughter fifty people with a machete - no problem so long as you don't say the F word.

I met a lovely French woman here (also a Professional Dominatrix) - yeah I attract powerful women. She's so unbelievably attractive with that sultry French vixen velvety voice and dark red hair with knee high leather boots and pure white perfect skin and pouty red lips in a slender 5'9 package with big bedroom eyes. Wow. No wonder guys line up to be her slave.

If people weren't so damn repressed and anal about things they'd enjoy their lives and wouldn't be as pissed off all the time out starting wars, and diddling alter boys. And all the arguments against are STUUUUUUPID. They never back anything up with any sort of proof - or even examples as to why it's bad for the sanctity of marriage or family values. Huh? But the intelligent part of society has to drag these centuries behind the rest of the world thinkers into modern times and better values and morals - if we left it to those noodle brains women would not be voting, blacks would be slaves and called blacks, I would be shot for this post or locked up as a commie traitor. Locked up by someone like J. Edgar Hoover (Holy Hypocrites Batman).

That's why I loved Boston Legal and I was so irritated that Fox did everything they could to railroad the show. And eventually succeeded.

My fear with Obama is that this stance may kill his presidency. I don't know - being Black didn't hurt him too much but a lot of the poor in the U.S. are African American. A lot of the poor go to church. Most in the Church hate Gays and they cloak it in BS - we love you but it's a sin. Yeah right.

So if Obama wins again (fingers crossed) I will be utterly amazed. When I first heard the news report I thought "wow he must want out of the job." I just can't see people electing a U.S president being an Atheist or "scientific" or pro gay marriage.

But then in 1950 I doubt anyone thought it possible to have an African American elected president.

2024 - a lesbian minority of middle eastern family heritage who is an Atheist gets elected president. :yesnod: And if America were really cool this woman would be a Republican. Now THAT would be something.

Feanor
05-11-2012, 04:50 AM
So a squirrel to the rescue - if you can get past the voice - he's a smart little guy :-)
...
and just of the fun of it

http://forums.audioreview.com/attachments/off-topic-non-audio/8714d1336705724-gay-marriage-74752_355544031178342_268330443233035_966641_55698 5625_n.jpg

This had me going almost up to the point where it says, "In a theocracy like ours ...".

Oh, but wait: read Chris Hedges' American Fascists ...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510zK6TbkgL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

ForeverAutumn
05-11-2012, 04:54 AM
That's great! I just posted it on my facebook page.

I was in a discussion with some Christians on a friend's Facebook page, regarding same sex marriage. For the most part everyone actually stayed pretty civil, although I have to admit that I did take the opportunity to egg them on a bit. Anyhow, one of them actually said that she believed that if you hung out with gay people, you could become gay; that their spirit would overtake yours. I was astounded that someone could really believe that...like homosexuality is a contagious virus!

Now, two days later, I can think of a list of great responses. But at the time I was just so flabbergasted, that I was too shocked to even answer back. People like that frighten me.

GMichael
05-11-2012, 06:15 AM
First off, I love the counting system used. That was great.

Second, I like most all people. Gay, straight, black white, purple or green is all OK to me. If a green guy wants to marry a purple guy, then lets have a party. I draw the line at mean people though. I'd rather live next to an idiot that someone who is mean at heart.

Third, I would love a hot lesbian couple next door, but not if it means that the old gay couple have to leave. They are too good to me and are not going ANYWHERE!

Fourth, who's got a fifth?:D

dean_martin
05-11-2012, 09:31 AM
A blast from the past and why I came out on AR.

http://forums.audioreview.com/off-topic-non-audio/marriage-gay-couples-dont-mix-9031.html

There were some ugly comments in that thread. My hat's off to you for keeping your cool.

GMichael
05-11-2012, 10:29 AM
There were some ugly comments in that thread. My hat's off to you for keeping your cool.

Wow! I think we've come a long way from those days.:eek6: We still have more to go though.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-11-2012, 10:54 AM
There were some ugly comments in that thread. My hat's off to you for keeping your cool.

Ugly? They were damn right means as hell, insensitive, and showed why this country cannot get past its biases and prejudices.

Feanor
05-11-2012, 11:12 AM
Ugly? They were damn right means as hell, insensitive, and showed why this country cannot get past its biases and prejudices.
I'm glad that I missed that thread, (though I was around here at the time). Maybe it was that interval when I avoided Off Topic.

I was always fine with equal civil unions but there was a time when I have reservations about same-sex marriage by that name. The nature of my reservation was that I felt it might be best to avoid the term "marriage" so as not to antagonize religious people who feel strongly against it.

I tended to feel like that way right up until the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that it was discriminatory to deny same-sex couple the right to marry. I finally realized that the Court was right and I was wrong: true equality could not exist until everyone was entitled to used the same term for their relationship.

Like Obama, my attitude had evolved.

bobsticks
05-11-2012, 11:26 AM
There were some ugly comments in that thread. My hat's off to you for keeping your cool.

Ain't that the truth...

...that said, I can see why some people might not approve of Gay Marriage.

---maybe a person believes that a two thousand year old document translated many, many times over many, many languages should be taken literally...(at least the part about the gays but probably not Leviticus or Romans or Corinthians)...

---see above, and add a refusal to read that part of the Constitution that separates Church and State...

---maybe a person has so many horrific, dysfunctional qualities that they need to cast aspersions on the behavior others to avoid looking at themselves...

---maybe a person dislikes all sex...

---maybe a person is so eager a follower that they chose to align themselves, or rather, that they would cast their lot with those that make careers out creating division and promoting judgement...

---The LGTB crowd has by-and-large followed the path of peaceful protest while a lot of them coloreds and laa--tee--nooos got some guns....and some days you just gotta be a bigot, right?


Gee, under those circumstances it's pretty easy to see how somebody might get all up in arms over the issue...

ForeverAutumn
05-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Ain't that the truth...

...that said, I can see why some people might not approve of Gay Marriage...

I know that you're being facetious, but I honestly don't get why someone would not approve. Hard as I try, I just can't understand why people think that it's any of their business or their right to judge.

Why is this even something that should be voted on? Who I marry or don't marry affects no one. NO ONE. Except me and the person I marry.

Yes, there should be laws in place for the sake of safety of minors and that sort of thing. But if I'm a consenting adult who wants to marry a consenting adult who wants to marry me, why would anyone else care? Especially people who don't even know me.

That's what I don't understand.

bobsticks
05-11-2012, 11:48 AM
Amen sistah, amen!

dean_martin
05-11-2012, 11:55 AM
As far as I'm concerned, the debate's over, the slippery slope argument is bull**** (no one's going to marry an animal or an inanimate object), people came to this country to break from all kinds of "traditions", to dodge paying taxes to the crown, to avoid jail and hard labor, etc. We're supposed to accept everyone. We are indeed the great experiment and as such we should be leading by example rather than dragging humanity back to the Middle Ages.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-11-2012, 01:54 PM
I'm glad that I missed that thread, (though I was around here at the time). Maybe it was that interval when I avoided Off Topic.

As you can see, I should have avoided that thread myself.


I was always fine with equal civil unions but there was a time when I have reservations about same-sex marriage by that name. The nature of my reservation was that I felt it might be best to avoid the term "marriage" so as not to antagonize religious people who feel strongly against it.

I tended to feel like that way right up until the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that it was discriminatory to deny same-sex couple the right to marry. I finally realized that the Court was right and I was wrong: true equality could not exist until everyone was entitled to used the same term for their relationship.

Like Obama, my attitude had evolved.

At least you evolved. I would not be surprised if none of those that opposed it in that thread will. Too narrow minded the lot.

The whole gay marriage thing was never on my radar until my neighborhood up here began attracting successful gay couples with and without kids. My kids played with their kids which eventually led to me meeting their parents. Everyone I met was just an all around great person who loved their kids and wanted the best for them. The kids were perfectly normal and well adjusted. I didn't even know some of them had gay parents until they told me they had two mother or two fathers. Some of these couples have been together longer than the straight couples I know, and are very committed to their "partnership". Why should these great people not be able to marry if they are that committed to each other?

I understand evolving. I grew up in the Pentecostal Church(Church of God In Christ), and those are some pretty rigid folks. However my Grandmother was a really open person, and she was always very sympathetic(and defensive and combative) when the our church found out somebody was gay. She always defended them, and kept telling folks to stop putting people lives in the "pause" mode, and allow them to evolve in their lives. She always said that we must look at the larger picture. I think I followed after her lead.

thekid
05-11-2012, 02:17 PM
The problem I see in this issue is that people mix the legal contract of "marriage" with the religious rite of "marriage". In its earliest form marriage was strictly a legal contract which revolved around property rights and the transfer of property. Organized religions then developed rites which "sanctified" the marriage of a couple within their sect or religious order. As time passed people merged the two concepts together and began to think that both the legal and religious acts were needed to constitute a marriage. This of course is not true. You can get married in a church but if you do not buy a license and fill out the right paperwork the state does not recognize you as legally married.

As far as I am concerned if some organized religion does not want to recognize/perform their traditional "marriage" rite for a Gay couple then I think that is their right. To assert that same concept allows them to oppose or deny a Gay couple from entering into the legal contract of "marriage" is just plain wrong.

I find it odd that people who oppose Gay marriage tend to be strict constitutionists but seem to have no problem mixing Church and State when it comes to Gay marriage.

Just my two cents.....

Mash
05-11-2012, 02:35 PM
The scandal here is not Gay Marriage. It is the divorce rate of Hetero couples with children and also Hetero couples having children out of wedlock. Hetero couples can produce children while Gay couples cannot. We should be concerned about the children who result from, and then become the victims of, divorce or unstable Hetro couples..

bobsticks
05-11-2012, 05:13 PM
The scandal here is not Gay Marriage. It is the divorce rate of Hetero couples with children and also Hetero couples having children out of wedlock. Hetero couples can produce children while Gay couples cannot. We should be concerned about the children who result from, and then become the victims of, divorce or unstable Hetro couples..

Absolutely correct...though if you ask gay folks who are effected by the current laws they might regard them as scandalous.

RGA
05-11-2012, 05:44 PM
Forget Gays

Some Religion (err most) can barely stomach girls. What's wrong with these F-tards. Our Lady of Sorrows (Ariz.) baseball team forfeits state title rather than play against team with a girl | Prep Rally - Yahoo! Sports Canada (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/lady-sorrows-ariz-baseball-team-forfeits-state-title-041333504.html)

JohnMichael
05-11-2012, 05:55 PM
Forget Gays




Do not forget us so soon. I live in a state where I can be discriminated against in employment, denied housing, and not allowed to marry.

Feanor
05-12-2012, 04:43 AM
The scandal here is not Gay Marriage. It is the divorce rate of Hetero couples with children and also Hetero couples having children out of wedlock. Hetero couples can produce children while Gay couples cannot. We should be concerned about the children who result from, and then become the victims of, divorce or unstable Hetro couples..
Stable, committed relationships are advantageous to individuals and to society. Sexual orientation of couples is really no issue at all.

Just for the record, I do oppose multiple, (polygamous / polyandrous), marriage because in actual operation it tends to oppress the multiple partners and unfairly reduce available spouses for other members of the community. (I also oppose marriage to animals, house plants, or "ice cream" :crazy:),

RGA
05-12-2012, 07:57 AM
Do not forget us so soon. I live in a state where I can be discriminated against in employment, denied housing, and not allowed to marry.

Don't forget Atheist biology teachers trying to teach the "fact" of evolution. They'll throw rocks through your window and fire you in some places.

Thanks to the Audio Note distributor for sending me along a little history piece to add to this discussion

"When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite."

anthropologist: When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite (http://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html)

JohnMichael
05-12-2012, 09:58 AM
Years ago a theologian and recently a minister have proposed that Jesus was gay and his partner was the Apostle John. One of the justifications of this study is Jesus' words on the cross. John who was the only Apostle in attendance at the cross was told by Jeaus to behold his Mother. Then Jesus told Mary to behold her son. Mary then went to live with John.

Some feel this is a sign of Jesus and Johns bond to one another. I have not read the earlier study but I will be reading the current papers being written. Regardless of whether Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene or to John his message of peace, tolerance, forgiveness and love are still incredibly important.

texlle
05-12-2012, 11:15 AM
I believe there is an advocacy for marriage over civil union because gays simply want to stop being alienated from society. I consider marriage to be not just a rite of religion but more so a rite of humanity. If those belonging to a specific demographic that were once considered second class citizens can now excercise the same rights as everyone else, I simply don't understand why the line stops at homosexuality. The religious right in this country would rather dehumanize the concept of gay marriage by limiting it at a civil unity because these fundamentalists view homosexuality as less than human. I say let them marry, let them integrate, let Obama win and give these people the political backing to achieve what needs to be done to let our country evolve and integrate with the rest of the world.

ForeverAutumn
05-12-2012, 12:32 PM
Here's the problem I have with the argument about marraige being a "religious rite". My husband and I are both atheists. We were married by a Unitarian minister who performed a beautiful non-sectarian ceremony. Yet, we are "married". We are not in a civil union. There is absolutely nothing religious about it. Yet we have the right be married. So should everyone else.

ForeverAutumn
05-12-2012, 12:34 PM
Years ago a theologian and recently a minister have proposed that Jesus was gay and his partner was the Apostle John. One of the justifications of this study is Jesus' words on the cross. John who was the only Apostle in attendance at the cross was told by Jeaus to behold his Mother. Then Jesus told Mary to behold her son. Mary then went to live with John.

I love that theory! Can you imagine if there were really a way to prove it? :D

JohnMichael
05-12-2012, 05:13 PM
I am excited for gay marriage to come to Ohio. I will finally be able to make my poor life choices legally binding.

Of course gay divorce is easy now. "Get your sh!t and get out". Once marriage is legal we will need lawyers.

If gay marriage becomes law we will need to be able to register at all stores. Not just Target and Macy's.

Of course we will not need wedding planners. We can create our own fabulous events.

Oh one day, one day.

RGA
05-12-2012, 06:09 PM
I love that theory! Can you imagine if there were really a way to prove it? :D

There is another one that a lot of stuff that people saw was due to the water supply being drugged via a form of drug similar to L.S.D. causing mass hallucinations. They were seeing Lucy in the sky with diamonds or talking burning bushes. Just look at the 60s - do some drugs and everyone starts looking like they're starring in Jesus Christ Superstar.

Feanor
05-12-2012, 06:39 PM
I love that theory! Can you imagine if there were really a way to prove it? :D
No proof of a gay relationship, but the Gospel of John has several references to the "beloved disciple". (see Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_whom_Jesus_loved)). This is most often consider to be John the Apostle, one of the original twelve disciples, however the actual name of the beloved disciple is not given. It was apparently not Mary Madeline who told Peter and the beloved disciple of the empty tomb.

We may consider that it was very unusual for a Jewish man to be unmarried at at 30 when Jesus began his ministry. As I understand, marriage was then, as it is now among Orthodox Jews, considered an obligation of a righteous Jew. (FA, is this not so?) It's also true at that time among Jews that homosexuality was considered an abomination.

BTW, not a just few people suspect that the Apostle Paul was homosexual thanks to his occasional deprecating remarks about women and male-female relationships.

thekid
05-13-2012, 02:52 AM
It may be interesting for some people to speculate on the sexual orientation or marital status of Jesus (It certainly helped make the DaVinci Code a best-seller) but I would be careful to support any views on this topic based on passages or phrases used in the Bible. The Bible that exists today has been translated from a variety of languages at least 3 times so word choices are sketchy at best for proof in this area. The text of the Bible has also gone through several editings which often reflect the biases of the editors. Throw in the fact that the source documents such as the Gospels appear to have been written 20-30 years after Jesus lived you raise additional issues.

Viewing the Bible as relegious text or philosophical treatise is one thing. Using it as a historical document or to establish the personality or traits of individuals within its narratives is something else.

JohnMichael
05-13-2012, 09:42 AM
It may be interesting for some people to speculate on the sexual orientation or marital status of Jesus (It certainly helped make the DaVinci Code a best-seller) but I would be carefully to support any views on this topic based on passages or phrases used in the Bible. The Bible that exists today has been translated from a variety of languages at least 3 times so word choices are sketchy at best for proof in this area. The text of the Bible has also gone through several editings which often reflect the biases of the editors. Throw in the fact that the source documents such as the Gospels appear to have been written 20-30 years after Jesus lived you raise additional issues.

Viewing the Bible as relegious text or philosophical treatise is one thing. Using it as a historical document or to establish the personality or traits of individuals within its narratives is something else.


Not only has the Bible been translated from many languages but men decided what books went into the Bible. There were more Gospels written than the four in the Bible. Books called the apocrypha had been included in the Bible between the Old and New Testaments but are no longer included. There is also interesting information about Jesus and his life in the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient writings. The Bible is limited in information some might say to influence and direct faith and thought.

Mash
05-13-2012, 03:23 PM
How did the Bible and JC get into this?

FYI Terms used in the time of JC usually ment something very different than they do today.

Rabinical Law was a lot stricter then, too. Adultery could get you a REAL headache. But takingt a second wife? I think the story of Rachel answered this (if my memory is correct).

Homosexuality? Oh, boy.......................

JohnMichael
05-14-2012, 04:40 AM
The Bible and Jesus are brought into it because many fundamentalist, evangelical and middle of the road christians work hard to prevent marriage equality from happening.

I have a hard time when laws are influenced by a book written by man that not everyone follows or believes. If two adult males or females marry what is the impact on society?

It was not that long ago that people of different races could not marry. Today most people would be outraged if we tried to reverse that right. Gay marriage is going to be a reality one day. Each new generation is more accepting and even younger christians have been shown to be more tolerant.

bobsticks
05-14-2012, 05:44 AM
How did the Bible and JC get into this?

FYI Terms used in the time of JC usually ment something very different than they do today.

Rabinical Law was a lot stricter then, too. Adultery could get you a REAL headache. But takingt a second wife? I think the story of Rachel answered this (if my memory is correct).

Homosexuality? Oh, boy.......................

Well, it's not the secularists that are trying to deny people their rights.

It's not the secularists that are conveniently forgetting a longstanding tradition of same-sex marriage as Christian Rite....i.e., the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John and many, many others...

...it's not the secularists that seek to circumnavigate the Constitution in order to advance their own agenda of petty bigotry and the need to control...

That's how J.C. and the Bible got involved...

Brett A
05-18-2012, 09:32 AM
Here's the problem I have with the argument about marriage being a "religious rite". My husband and I are both atheists. We were married by a Unitarian minister who performed a beautiful non-sectarian ceremony. Yet, we are "married". We are not in a civil union. There is absolutely nothing religious about it. Yet we have the right be married. So should everyone else.
Us too. Neither my wife not I can honestly understand the theistic existential world view and were married in the UU church by our acupuncturist.

We never intended to have kids and 10 years later, in our mid-40's we still don't.

As for the old argument that children need to be "protected" from "the gay lifestyle", that's a load of B.S. It's my opinion that more harm is done by the frightened and ignorant people who declare such idiotic things.