ZU Denon 103 and Music Hall 7.1 [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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bajaed
04-16-2012, 07:25 AM
Is the ZU Denon 103 too heavy for the 9C arm on the 7.1?

dean_martin
04-16-2012, 08:45 AM
Run a search for Pro-Ject accessories. They make extra-heavy counter-weights for some of their arms. I can't really answer your question. I have an older entry-level Pro-Ject. With at least one of my carts, I had to remove the finger lift to get the proper balance. I'm not sure if you can do that with the 9c arm.

You may be able to "guesstimate" by comparing the weight of the Ortofon 2M Red to the ZU. Some of Pro-Ject's newer tables come with the 2M Red. It's a fairly large cartridge. Its specs should be readily available on sites like needledoctor.com.

FWIW, I was told by a dealer that the Benz Ace is an excellent match for the 7.1 table/arm.

frenchmon
04-16-2012, 11:03 AM
Is the ZU Denon 103 too heavy for the 9C arm on the 7.1?

Here you go ED..Cartridge Resonance Evaluator (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=11&submit=Submit)

I think the mass of the 9c is 9.5g and the 103 R is 8.5g

bajaed
04-16-2012, 05:57 PM
Frenchmon, how about brief tutorial on how to use that table?

I punched in the tone arm mass and can see the cartridge mass across the top, but I am not sure how to calculate the dynamic compliance on the left.

The Zu is 5 x 106 cm/dyne, the Nagaoka is 8.5 x 10-6 cm/dyne,
and the 2M Black specs just say: Compliance dynamic lateral: 22 m/mN

02audionoob
04-16-2012, 08:21 PM
This compliance stuff can be a bit hard to pin down. Some of the numbers you'll see listed in specs are dynamic, and some are static. Some are based on 10 Hz, while some are at 100 Hz. Dynamic numbers are often half the static numbers and compliance at 100 Hz might be half what it would be at 10 Hz. The Japanese cartridges, including Denon, are ordinarily measured at 100 Hz.

All that said, you could just figure the DL-103's spec of 5 x 106 (presumably static at 100 Hz) is roughly correct for the chart and reading across at that row to the Zu DL-103's mass of 14 grams doesn't put you in the optimum green area. If you were optimistic and assume it might be 8 x 106 you creep into the green. What this is telling you is the DL-103 might be too stiff to run at its best on such a light tonearm. Then again, the Zu version's extra mass is working for you on compliance, if you have a heavy enough counterweight.

Enochrome
04-16-2012, 09:37 PM
Do you think the guys at Zu added the 6 extra grams to get the Rega with heavy counter weight crowd?
I just installed a Denon DL-103LC on a Jelco at 18 grams and that barely made it.

02audionoob
04-17-2012, 04:00 AM
I would guess they added mass to help get the DL-103's resonance into optimum range on medium-mass tonearms.

frenchmon
04-17-2012, 04:08 AM
Is the ZU Denon 103 too heavy for the 9C arm on the 7.1?

ED ever consider the Dynavector 20X2 H/L?

I hear its a very good cart as well. In about a year I might go for one of the wood body carts. Grado, or some other wood body...Ortofon also makes some kinda wood blended body cart in their Rondo collection as well...I've had my eye on the Rondo Blue as well.

bajaed
04-17-2012, 04:40 AM
Lots of choices. Looking for a good match on the 9c that is full, rich and not muddy. Not too harsh on the top end. Under $600 new or possibly used . Would not mind trying it a moving coil .

frenchmon
04-17-2012, 09:29 AM
bajaed...what power cords, speaker wire, and interconnects are you using?

Also...a great cart is the Grado carts. JohnMichael sent me a Grado and it was wonderful.

Enochrome
04-17-2012, 10:02 AM
Get a AT33 variant or a AT- OC9ll...i heard their crazy good and they have line contact styli. With your price range their is nothing but good choices. Just match the compliance with your arm and the output with your phono stage ( their is wiggle room) and you should be cool.

Really you can't make a bad choice, there are so many good carts in that price range; buy and have fun.

02audionoob
04-17-2012, 03:35 PM
Full and rich, not muddy, under $600...how about a Dynavector 10X5?

frenchmon
04-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Full and rich, not muddy, under $600...how about a Dynavector 10X5?

noob...you ever heard the Dynavector 20X2 ? Is it twice as good as the 10x5 ?

02audionoob
04-17-2012, 04:02 PM
noob...you ever heard the Dynavector 20X2 ? Is it twice as good as the 10x5 ?

I have not heard a system using the 20X2. The one time I heard a 20X, I didn't have anything to compare it to, so I don't have anything to go on, there, either.

Speaking of Dynavector cartridges...I'm thinking about putting my retipped 10X4 on my wife's Debut III, now that the 10X4 has been bumped off the main system. I suspect she won't notice the difference over the Ortofon OM-5E, but it's sad to see the 10X4 sitting around doing nothing after that retip from only last summer.

bajaed
04-18-2012, 04:00 PM
bajaed...what power cords, speaker wire, and interconnects are you using?

Also...a great cart is the Grado carts. JohnMichael sent me a Grado and it was wonderful.

Nothing special on cords and connects but I'm about to upgrade to a nice power cord on the Jasmine.