2M Black.

[frenchmon]

Been running this cart in for a while now. Right out the box it sounded good. Unlike my 2M Red, there was no sibilance after install so no needing to let it break in to get rid of it. . As I continue to run her in, it became very obvious to me that I have never really heard a drum kit sound so natural in my system. The cymbals sound like real cymbals. The midsection is just wonderful and I have even more front to back depth. I don't hear any of the back ground noise that others say it has nor do I hear any brightness. So far this cart is well worth the money paid and she does not even have nearly the hours on her to get her fully run it. I am still using the Grado phono stage, so it may be holding the cart back a bit. So far this cart is smooth and warm, not analytical like some of the professional reviews I've read. I can wait till she is fully run in.

[bajaed]

Glad you got your 2m black!! If I upgrade my cart it will be a to be determined MC, a Nagoaka MP 500 or the 2M black. If you don't think the 2M black is too bright I'll go with it.

[bajaed]

The guy I got the Jasmine from seems to know his stuff and said he has had $2,000 carts but loves the ZU modified Denon 103 and the 2M Black. The ZU may be too heavy for the 9C arm but the Black would be perfect.

Said the Ortofon is ridiculously good for the money.

[frenchmon]

Just listening before I go to work. The 2MB seems to have the ability to draw you in to the music. There is so much detail I never noticed before. The system seems to have great swing even more so with the 2MB. The Grado seems to be holding its own really well. It has much more zeal than the on board phono stage of the Rotel. I'm really going to have to make a decision on the phone amp, as the Grado is a demo from Wylie. I was told the SIMAUDIO 110LP was a lateral move from the Grado, but I really dont know. The 110LP is a $600 Phono Stage, just as the Jasmine and a few others and people rave about them. I have had my eye on the Rogue and the Reflex M or Era Gold for about a few years now. The Reflex being the most expensive, but I spoke to Graham and he said I could get perhaps a little cheaper if I buy direct from him over in England. So I really dont know what direction to go. Boy why is this so hard for me, I want to be totally satisfied with the way I go....I hear wonderful things about all of them. Me and Peabody are going to listen to some Monitor Audio speakers today, but maybe we will go to one of the local audio shops here in town to take a listen to the Simaudio 110LP today. I think Peabody says they have them in stock.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Glad you got your 2m black!! If I upgrade my cart it will be a to be determined MC, a Nagoaka MP 500 or the 2M black. If you don't think the 2M black is too bright I'll go with it.

You meant "a to be determined MM" right?

[JohnMichael]

Just listening before I go to work. The 2MB seems to have the ability to draw you in to the music. There is so much detail I never noticed before. The system seems to have great swing even more so with the 2MB. The Grado seems to be holding its own really well. It has much more zeal than the on board phono stage of the Rotel. I'm really going to have to make a decision on the phone amp, as the Grado is a demo from Wylie. I was told the SIMAUDIO 110LP was a lateral move from the Grado, but I really dont know. The 110LP is a $600 Phono Stage, just as the Jasmine and a few others and people rave about them. I have had my eye on the Rogue and the Reflex M or Era Gold for about a few years now. The Reflex being the most expensive, but I spoke to Graham and he said I could get perhaps a little cheaper if I buy direct from him over in England. So I really dont know what direction to go. Boy why is this so hard for me, I want to be totally satisfied with the way I go....I hear wonderful things about all of them. Me and Peabody are going to listen to some Monitor Audio speakers today, but maybe we will go to one of the local audio shops here in town to take a listen to the Simaudio 110LP today. I think Peabody says they have them in stock.


It is hard because there are so few stores that demo analog or have any variety of equipment. When I first became interested in audio stores had a lot of ttables and electronics had onboard phono pre's. Now unless we live in a major city we are on our own. I have lucked out on many of my purchases that I have bought unheard.

I will say the Grado sounds better through the Moon 110LP than the Gram Amp 3. The 110LP is quieter and I could set it for the higher gain the Sonata Statement would need but instead of the 100 Ohms traditionally set for higher gain. I have it set for 60 db of gain but the 47k the Grado requires. I need to compare the Slee and the 110LP using the Benz MC Gold. Sadly I like the Grado to much to compare.

[frenchmon]

JM....would you say the 110LP is in a different class than the Amp 3 ? It seems to me the 110LP is a step or two above the Amp 3.

Also there is two guys on audiogon who are selling the LP5.3 for
$810.....I am so tempted as that is an outstanding phono amp. But I am afraid of dealing with guys on audiogon.

[Jack in Wilmington]

JM....would you say the 110LP is in a different class than the Amp 3 ? It seems to me the 110LP is a step or two above the Amp 3.

Also there is two guys on audiogon who are selling the LP5.3 for
$810.....I am so tempted as that is an outstanding phono amp. But I am afraid of dealing with guys on audiogon.

Hey Frenchie, I've bought many things from Audiogon without a problem. I know that the current state of that site isn't wonderful, but hopefully that will change. Do you think that the LP5.3 is more on the level of their current 310LP pre? If so I would pull the trigger. The guy does have 100% feedback and paypal stands behind the buyer. Of course it's nice how I'm spending your money.

[frenchmon]

Hey Frenchie, I've bought many things from Audiogon without a problem. I know that the current state of that site isn't wonderful, but hopefully that will change. Do you think that the LP5.3 is more on the level of their current 310LP pre? If so I would pull the trigger. The guy does have 100% feedback and paypal stands behind the buyer. Of course it's nice how I'm spending your money.

Yeah, the 310LP replaced the LP5.3....as far as pulling the trigger? Still thinking.

[JohnMichael]

JM....would you say the 110LP is in a different class than the Amp 3 ? It seems to me the 110LP is a step or two above the Amp 3.

Also there is two guys on audiogon who are selling the LP5.3 for
$810.....I am so tempted as that is an outstanding phono amp. But I am afraid of dealing with guys on audiogon.


Yes the Moon 110LP is a couple of steps above the Fanfare. Part of the reason is the 110LP's ability to reject radio frequencies. It is so nice not hearing the local radio station between songs. The Slee was not shielded enough. Now that may not be a problem with your higher output cartridge.

The 110LP is also quieter since it adds no noise of it's own. The Fanfare had a slight hiss but Graham says that is due to the wide bandwidth design. It did not bother me until I had the 110LP and how dead quiet it is.

The Moon 110LP has better layering of the soundstage. More natural instrumental timbers, better bass and silky highs. Then when I added the Welborne PSU the highs became more extended. All the good things became even better.

[frenchmon]

JM...had very interesting day today. I had a chance to listen to the simaudio 310LP...a clear audio table..the Concept with the concept cart. It was being driven by a tube integrated amp and driving some Dynaudio C4's. Then we went to one of the local dealers house. He had just took out of the boxes...brand new gear. The new Onkyo separates and the new Onkyo CDP and a brand new Pro-Ject RPM 5.1s. and they where all driving spanking new out of the box Monitor Audio Gold GX100. But I will have to tell you what I found later...I am real tired. It will report my thoughts tomorrow.

[bajaed]

You meant "a to be determined MM" right?

Jack, I meant to convey that if I go with a MC I don't know what it will be at this point. If I go with a MM it will be the Nagaoka 500 or the 2M Black.

Should have worded that differently.

[02audionoob]

Very cool you got that 2M Black, frenchmon. It's interesting you're hearing none of the supposed shortcomings of the Black, which would seem to indicate the MMF-7.1 is perhaps a better match for it than the turntables and tonearms with which it was reviewed. I'd love to hear a Black on my own turntable.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Jack, I meant to convey that if I go with a MC I don't know what it will be at this point. If I go with a MM it will be the Nagaoka 500 or the 2M Black.

Should have worded that differently.

I figured there was a simple explanation. I'm also looking at an MC and not sure what at this point. Maybe Sumiko,Goldring, or Grado. I'll keep an eye out to see which way you go.

[frenchmon]

Very cool you got that 2M Black, frenchmon. It's interesting you're hearing none of the supposed shortcomings of the Black, which would seem to indicate the MMF-7.1 is perhaps a better match for it than the turntables and tonearms with which it was reviewed. I'd love to hear a Black on my own turntable.

noob. The 2MB is really a super cart in the MM category. However because of the type of stylus it is, if one has dirty vinyl, or worn vinyl, the 2MB will let you hear it. I have about 15 hours on it and its still not broken in as of yet. I've heard about the 50 hour mark it should be breaking in nicely. It just simply lets you hear whats in the groves of the records simply put. IF one has dirty vinyl or not been taking care of their records you will know. This simply means one has to take better care of their vinyl if they have not. My first listening session was with new 200g vinyl and it was silent, the next day I played one of my old vintage records that has some tics and pops, and the Black kinda said to me " hey you need to buy a new copy of this if you want a good vinyl collection."

Another thing I've noticed about the 2MB. It will show you a bad recorded album as well. I have some new 180g remastered vinyl from some of these companies who like to take vintage jazz from the 30's - 60's, clean them up and remaster them with 20 bit processing. IF its not done right the 2MB will let you know. IF its done right, you will have goo-gobbs of great detail. But all that stuff about the 2MB being bright, and sterile and no emotion,...not in my system...the 2MB is not a warm cart, at least not off the bat, but its not boring as I have heard a few people say. Its a Ortofon product so if one knows what a Ortofon sound is, thats what you get. I suspect just like everything else in audio....system synergy is the key. I have also heard others say it has a deep bottom end....not in my system. It has bass, but not as much as I thought it would have. But some say once it breaks in it will have better bass. But I can say, the speakers are the weakest link in my system...not the best bass any way... I kinda got exposed last night by some great stand mount speakers I listened too last night, Monitor Audios Gold GX100. So I would say, I need better speakers more so than ever now... The 2MB only gives you whats in the groves...nothing fake or bloated.Great cart if a person has good vinyl....it wont mask it for you.

[frenchmon]

OK...have a few more hours on her right now. Bottom end is a little more pronounced....and starting to come in. Still not bloated or over exaggerated but very noticeable. This is a very clean 180g cut of Diana Krall. Dead quiet and no noise at all. I think the 2MB after full breaking in is going to be really special. I am very pleased at the combination of the 7.1 and 2MB combination. I can very much recommend the 2MB. Continuing to update as the cart continues to run in.

[frenchmon]

Another hour of run in and the cart is really running in now. I am playing some of my older vinyl and the pops and tics are not noticeable at all....no noise. This is strange. Maybe it was because it had less hours on it that the tics and pops was audible, but now its not. Man this is a very good cart! The bass is filling in nicely. The bass is really detailed.There is a really nice sound stage. Like I said earlier good back to front depth.Detail is great. I assume the stylus is starting to get loose.

[frenchmon]

Ok yeah. Just put on Miles Davis "Kinda Blue" and yeah....this baby has some bass. Not exaggerated or bloated bass but a more natural bass. This cart sounded good out of the box with new vinyl, then switched to older vinyl and the tics and pops where exposed...then after run in and stylus loosened up a bit, the tics and pops disappeared on the older vinyl. Excellent tracker in the groves....excellent mids... compared to the 2M Red, the 2MR was brighter. On Kinda Blue the bass notes never sounded like it was coming from over in the back to the right. Now it does. I hear harmony with both Coltrane and Cannon ball's sax at the same time. I never noticed that before. Bill Evans piano seems to becoming from the left beyond the speaker...this is amazing!

[frenchmon]

Its about 8:20am...listening before I get repairs on my car. There is a thread on the Audiosyslum boards about the 2M Black. Some guy was asking about its performance...said he is having surface noise, and for the most part the guys talked about how good it was. But one guy said it was boring and did nothing for him. I wonder how he came to that conclusion? I really think it comes to system synergy....matching the right products. I will explain my thoughs on that in another thread about my experience out last SaturdY night. And I am wondering about the surface noise he is having. While I did have some in the first 4 or 5 hours, I thought it was due to the stylus being stiff and not broken in. I have no problems with surface noise now other than a few scratches on worn vinyl...nothing more or less than I experienced with the 2M Red or Grado Red. Makes me wonder if there is some other factor other than the 2M Black?

The 2MB is not boring at all! Neither is my 2M Red. I have the entry cart and the top cart in the Red and Black and both are very good carts....so I have to believe the Blue and Bronze are just as good in their respective classes. But the 2M Black is like awesome at the level of performance....Very well balanced form top too bottom. Mids are really nice and noticeable and the bass has come into its own. The bass is more of a natural sounding bass. It just sounds right. Like now I am playing a 180g 45 RPM limited addition album... "Fine and Mellow" Ella Fitzgerald Jams with Tommy Flannagan, "Lockjaw" avis, Louie Bellso, Clark Terry, Zoot Sims, Joe Pass, Ray Brown and Harry "Sweets" Edison. For all you straight ahead bee bop jazz fans out there this is a must have. Its put out by Pablo Records 2310 829. Any ways this is an excellent recording aswell. The 2MBlack puts ellas voice in the room with you. Once again the 2MB is able to give me a sound stage I have never heard before. My previous carts have not been able to let me see a stage so expansive as what I am hearing. Joe Passes guitar seems to be far left of the left speaker and and Harry "Sweets" Edisons trumpet is far right of the right speaker. This is amazing to me. The Grado seems to continue to give me that swing factor and is good with the 2MB. The 2M Black tracks wonfully and no grove distortion what so ever. Clear and keeps you grooving to the music.

[bajaed]

Frenchmon, any updates or further changes you've noticed in the cart now that you've had some more time to live with it?

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, any updates or further changes you've noticed in the cart now that you've had some more time to live with it?


Hi bajaed!

I must say bajaed....this is an unbelievable cart! The 2m Black is just wonderful. Its the best cart I have ever heard to this point. I still have to hear JM's cart, he has a Grado high dollar cart, so one day I will ask my dealer to order me one. But I am in no rush. It a groove digger thats for sure. It gives you tons of detail. The bass has filled in really good. Lush midrange, and the top end is extended without being harsh or shrill. Miles away from the 2M Red. The cart gives you exactly whats on the record.

The complaint againt the 2MB is surface noise. Although it is more noticeable than my previous carts, its not that much more. If you are a person who does not take care of your records and dont properly clean them when needed then yeah you will hear the noise. I some times buy used records, but I use the scale or grading system and never buy anything under a 7. But for the most part, all my records are new. And the used ones, I run through the Spin Clean and they are fine. Other than that, after this baby breaks in, you have a super cart. And this art will not hide a badly recorded album either...it will let you know poor quality albums.

[bajaed]

"Lush midrange, and the top end is extended without being harsh or shrill". That is exactly the type of sound I'm looking for!

How does the spin clean work for you? I have a small canister vac and an old turntable, was thinking about rigging something up. Might go with a spin clean instead if it works well and does not take forever. I really need a cleaning system.

Off topic, I know you are into jazz, do you ever listen to Kenny Burrell? I recently picked up used copies of Blue Moods and A Night at the Vanguard. Really enjoying his music. I have a new copy of Midnight Blue on order but it's taking forever to come in.

I recently saw a band called The Aristocrats. Three piece, all instrumental group. Guthrie Govan was voted guitar player of the year by Spin Magazine. One of the most talented bands I've ever seen. Every good musician in town was there jaws on the floor. They go from Hard Rock to Fusion to soft Jazz sometimes in the same song.

The reason I bring it up is their album is one of the punchiest, most dynamic recordings I've heard. Don't own anything else that just jumps out of the speakers like this with clarity, separation and detail. It's my new go to recording to show off the system. I picked up the CD at the show and am going to order it on vinyl. Give them a listen here: The Aristocrats (http://the-aristocrats-band.com/music/)

The samples start out with a Joe Satriani/Van Halen sound but give it time. Some great jazzy fusion stuff on there.

Let me know what you guys think.

[frenchmon]

"Lush midrange, and the top end is extended without being harsh or shrill". That is exactly the type of sound I'm looking for!

How does the spin clean work for you? I have a small canister vac and an old turntable, was thinking about rigging something up. Might go with a spin clean instead if it works well and does not take forever. I really need a cleaning system.

Off topic, I know you are into jazz, do you ever listen to Kenny Burrell? I recently picked up used copies of Blue Moods and A Night at the Vanguard. Really enjoying his music. I have a new copy of Midnight Blue on order but it's taking forever to come in.

I recently saw a band called The Aristocrats. Three piece, all instrumental group. Guthrie Govan was voted guitar player of the year by Spin Magazine. One of the most talented bands I've ever seen. Every good musician in town was there jaws on the floor. They go from Hard Rock to Fusion to soft Jazz sometimes in the same song.

The reason I bring it up is their album is one of the punchiest, most dynamic recordings I've heard. Don't own anything else that just jumps out of the speakers like this with clarity, separation and detail. It's my new go to recording to show off the system. I picked up the CD at the show and am going to order it on vinyl. Give them a listen here: The Aristocrats (http://the-aristocrats-band.com/music/)

The samples start out with a Joe Satriani/Van Halen sound but give it time. Some great jazzy fusion stuff on there.

Let me know what you guys think.


The Spin Clean is good. It all I need. When I first got it, I did ten albums in a row....water was filthy, and before I washed them, they look like they where not that dirty, but there is lots of stuff in those grooves you cant see with the necked eye.The key is a very good rinse after the wash. Been really thinking about getting a second one. The first SC can be used for wash only them run it threw the clean water as a rinse...but that would only be needed for doing multiple albumes in a row, like 10 or more.

Kenny Burrell? Great Jazz man. Cant go wrong with KB.

Aristocrats can lay down some nice tunes....I really like "Bad Astroid". You can tell the guy was really influenced by Joe Satriani and Van Halen. But yeah, they are a great small 3 piece band...to do the stuff they are doing you gotta be an above average musician.