JM...Grado Red....Nice!

[frenchmon]

....JM, the Grado Red is a very nice entry level cart! Very nice mids, overal warm, great detail and very nice spacing between instruments. Has very good imaging as well. Its not as dynamic and detailed as the 2M Red, but does eveything else just as good as the 2M Red.


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I did a little Sarah Vaughan and Joshua Redman this morning.

Once I got the cart properly set and dialed in at 1.5g the sibilance went away and the bass sounded really good and full. I especially like the mids...and its a great cart with the Grado phono amp.

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I dont know if they still make the Grado Red but for the price, its not bad at all. The only negative thing I can say is there is a slight hum, but it seems to stop once the needle hits the record.

Did you notice a hum? And what does the wood add to the wood body Grado carts?

The 2M Black and the Simaudio should be here in the second week of April....But I could easily live with a Grado Sonata seeing that its more audiophile quality...and after I get the 2M Black and play with it for a while I may get a wood body Grado....my dealer has them at great prices... so what does the wood add to carts? I think Ortofon has wood body's but to expensive. Yeah, the Grado Red is a good smooth presentation. Thanks for the pleasure of letting me listen to it.

[frenchmon]

Listening to some Pat Metheny now, and the Grado Red and Grado Phono amp swinging it really nice...presentation is full!

I also forgot to mention that the Grado Red seems to portray a deeper sound stage from front to back more so than the 2M Red. Impressive!

[JohnMichael]

I am glad you are enjoying the Red. I have always heard they were a good match for Music Hall/Project turntables. Much of what you describe are the same with the wood bodied models but more so. The reason I went with the Sonata was the nude stylus which have lower mass. Lower mass allows the stylus to better respond to the groove. The retrieval of information will be similar to the improvements of the Ortofon Black over the Red.

The Sonata does not have a replaceable stylus. This is credited for lower resonance and the improved sound seems to bare this out.

I wonder if you will try the 110LP with the Red before mounting the Black? Since I have heard the Red your input between the two phono preamps would be of interest.

Enjoy!

[Enochrome]

I just repurchased a Grado Blue for dirt cheap and I have to say that I am not impressed. The mids are good but muddied. The bass is really the deal here. The soundstage is not good and that comment about it fills the space in the middle is mularky; it just has a crap soundstage. I do like the cohesiveness but it can't overcome the fact that it sacrifices dynamics. It tracks well until you get to the last track of any record. I have heard the new stylus relieves this and that is true, but the older styli are garbage. It has the analogue richness which is a nice aspect that mc's lack for the most part, but if that is paramount to anyone than any Nagaoka will serve that better. I am now on the hunt for a great deal on a Nagaoka, but I have never gotten a definitive answer on their compliance.

[frenchmon]

Sure JM....I will do that. For some reason, I'm thinking the 110LP will not be as warm as the Grado phono 1. The Grado Phono 1 seems to be about musicality and swinging the music with warmth more so than a great focus on detail. Not say the 110LP does not swing it, but I have the impression Grado is warmer. And I dont want any body to get the wrong I deal, the Grado phono 1 has gret detail, but it seems to be secondary to me more so than making detail priority. Grado has great tone on all instruments with attention to swinging it and making things musical. At least thats what I feel.

[frenchmon]

I just repurchased a Grado Blue for dirt cheap and I have to say that I am not impressed. The mids are good but muddied. The bass is really the deal here. The soundstage is not good and that comment about it fills the space in the middle is mularky; it just has a crap soundstage. I do like the cohesiveness but it can't overcome the fact that it sacrifices dynamics. It tracks well until you get to the last track of any record. I have heard the new stylus relieves this and that is true, but the older styli are garbage. It has the analogue richness which is a nice aspect that mc's lack for the most part, but if that is paramount to anyone than any Nagaoka will serve that better. I am now on the hunt for a great deal on a Nagaoka, but I have never gotten a definitive answer on their compliance.

Wow! Have not heard the Blue, but the Red is not bad for an entry level cart. I hate to ask, but have you went back over the carts set up? The Mids should not be muddied, and the sound stage is great with the Red....and great front to back depth is very much heard in certain recordings. Sounds like your set up may be off a bit. What phono amp are you using? Make sure its set to MM and not MC. I have a new cart coming with a phono preamp, and I can pass the Red on to you after I get permission from the fine gentlemen who passed it on to me. After you dial it in correctly the Grado Red is great!

[Enochrome]

I thought the dimensionality as far as depth was another good aspect of the cart. It might be that I coming from a Denon DL-110 and have not heard MM's in awhile. As far as the soundstage, set up won't improve that (and mine was dialed in right) it is just a characteristic of the Prestige line. John Grado prefers a more centered soundstage that benefits its full midrange and preference for vocals. I also think he might have thought that mono-like soundstage, full rich bass and midrange would be able to work for vocals, 70's rock and classical equally. I do agree with his approach I just feel that it compromised a little too much. Yet, I check myself with the fact that you pointed out that it is an entry level cart that is a step up from the low end generics out there. Frenchmon, I hear what you are saying, and for the most part I agree with most of what you are saying except for the soundstage. You have very good ears and your gear I covet so I will do another listening. Maybe the Red is a large step up from the blue? Hit me up when you decide to let go of it, maybe my opinion will have changed.

What stage and cart is coming your way soon?

[Enochrome]

Oh, and I am using the Cambridge 640p. Which has its limitations, but it can provide a great soundstage and detail with the right cart. I have been working towards getting a "end of the line" phono stage, which will either be a Jasmine, Jolida JD9 or a Rega Fono MM with a Cinemag step up (the Cinemag factory is 5 miles from my house). The only thing that I have a hard time parting with the 640p is the dual inputs, so I can use my DD-40 and the TD-125mkll.

[02audionoob]

Eno...what's your hesitance on the Nagaoka's compliance info?

[JohnMichael]

Oh, and I am using the Cambridge 640p. Which has its limitations, but it can provide a great soundstage and detail with the right cart. I have been working towards getting a "end of the line" phono stage, which will either be a Jasmine, Jolida JD9 or a Rega Fono MM with a Cinemag step up (the Cinemag factory is 5 miles from my house). The only thing that I have a hard time parting with the 640p is the dual inputs, so I can use my DD-40 and the TD-125mkll.


I also own the Cambridge Audio 640P and felt with low output MC's it was lacking in dynamics. I also found a degradation of sound when I used the subsonic filter. I have no idea if you have the subsonic filter in use but I found the sound much better without it.

I wanted to add that I am so pleased with the power supply upgrade for my 110LP that the Pangea PSU from AudioAdvisor might give you that performance upgrade for $99.

[frenchmon]

What stage and cart is coming your way soon?

The 2M Black and the simaudio 110LP and after market power supply, possible the Welborne Labs or Channel Island's new Power supply set to be released soon.

[Enochrome]

With the 640p it's really an issue that it just is about 3 to 6 db below for adequate gain in the MC section. My 103LC suffers with 57db of gain, which results in me cranking my DIA-100 because it utilizes a passive preamp. I realize that I need to invest in a really quality DAC and phono stage because the Acurus and Snell are to unforgiving of entry level gear. I am currently selling my Jolida 502a because the Snell just revealed it to be a molasses amp.

As far as the 640p I have read up on all the mods and most of them I can do. One such mod, is changing out the resistors in the input stage with different rating thus giving you a 6db increase. Whether or not the noise floor suffers is something I have not read yet. I am not sure if I want to partake in that experiment and ruin the resale value or just move up the phono stage chain.

The Nagaoka are rated at 100hz not 10hz, most of the compliance specs range from 5 - 8, which puts in the same ballpark as low compliance Japanese MC's. I have also read that people did 10hz reading and got compliancy in the high twenties which would put tracking at 1.5 or less. If that is true, than why does Nagaoka advise 1.5 - 2 ? That would make it medium compliant?

[Enochrome]

Also, for the record the 640p is pretty darn good, just the lack of gain and the dryness are what drag it down. I still think it is an incredible deal at the price (which I heard is going up for the new versions). I am not sure how to the Pangea can improve the 640p because it is variable AC that gets converted to DC inside the stage. All I would be doing is buying a better transformer than the wallwart, which could make a difference no doubt. The Pangea would be killer for the Beresford DAC because it is 12v DC and all the filtering and magic that the Pangea does is on the DC side, so it could be a killer purchase. If I could bypass the AC to DC conversion in the 640p and go straight DC and do the other mods that stage would kick some serious butt, but that is a lot of work in a tiny space.

Will see.

By the way, you guys have bought from Audio Advisor right? How is the 30 day guarantee if you don't like the product? Where do they ship from?

Cheers, it's pouring hear in L.A.

[02audionoob]

The Nagaoka are rated at 100hz not 10hz, most of the compliance specs range from 5 - 8, which puts in the same ballpark as low compliance Japanese MC's. I have also read that people did 10hz reading and got compliancy in the high twenties which would put tracking at 1.5 or less. If that is true, than why does Nagaoka advise 1.5 - 2 ? That would make it medium compliant?

I really think some of those discussions about the Nagaoka's compliance have been over-analyzed. Given a published spec of 6 and the assumption that it's 100 Hz, I've always assumed calling it 12 is close enough. Assuming tonearm mass of around 17 and cartridge mass around 6, the compliance sweet spot reaches all the way from 9 to 19.

Cartridge Resonance Evaluator (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=17&submit=Submit)

I can't see how there's any reason to worry. But hey,,,that's just me...a Rega guy who lets his cartridge ride tail down. :)

[frenchmon]

Also, for the record the 640p is pretty darn good, just the lack of gain and the dryness are what drag it down. I still think it is an incredible deal at the price (which I heard is going up for the new versions). I am not sure how to the Pangea can improve the 640p because it is variable AC that gets converted to DC inside the stage. All I would be doing is buying a better transformer than the wallwart, which could make a difference no doubt. The Pangea would be killer for the Beresford DAC because it is 12v DC and all the filtering and magic that the Pangea does is on the DC side, so it could be a killer purchase. If I could bypass the AC to DC conversion in the 640p and go straight DC and do the other mods that stage would kick some serious butt, but that is a lot of work in a tiny space.

Will see.

By the way, you guys have bought from Audio Advisor right? How is the 30 day guarantee if you don't like the product? Where do they ship from?

Cheers, it's pouring hear in L.A.

I have purchased from AA...one Item I purchased from them was my Musical Fidelity XRAY v8 with external XXX power supply. A great unit. The first one I purchased was damaged. I called them up, they sent me a RMA number and I sent the other one back and they sent me a new one. They're out ou Minnesota I believe.

For what its worth, you should get a new phono amp. Lots of them out there. Whats your budget?

[Enochrome]

I have purchased from AA...one Item I purchased from them was my Musical Fidelity XRAY v8 with external XXX power supply. A great unit. The first one I purchased was damaged. I called them up, they sent me a RMA number and I sent the other one back and they sent me a new one. They're out ou Minnesota I believe.

For what its worth, you should get a new phono amp. Lots of them out there. Whats your budget?

I can go as high as $400 to $500 (maybe) I would like a stage where I can have some control over gain or cap, or even both. Have you guys heard anything on the Blue Circle Fon Lo Thingee?

[Enochrome]

I really think some of those discussions about the Nagaoka's compliance have been over-analyzed. Given a published spec of 6 and the assumption that it's 100 Hz, I've always assumed calling it 12 is close enough. Assuming tonearm mass of around 17 and cartridge mass around 6, the compliance sweet spot reaches all the way from 9 to 19.

Cartridge Resonance Evaluator (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=17&submit=Submit)

I can't see how there's any reason to worry. But hey,,,that's just me...a Rega guy who lets his cartridge ride tail down. :)

I can float those specs with my Jelco 370 cause its 18 grams with the optional heavier counterweight, but I was hoping to use one for my MA-505 that is rated at 7 grams. I need to find a killer high compliant cart!!! (without breaking the bank of course)

Trying to finish off the system I'll be happy with for the next 5 years or so (or until I get a fat raise :D )

Noob, you are Rega tail down, and I'm Micro tail up :D

[Enochrome]

Well, I asked about Audio Advisor because I just pulled the trigger on a Schiit Bifrost. It ended up being $100 cheaper because I live in California and Schiit would charge me tax if I bought from them directly.
I am going to compare it to the Beresford and if it's not a good move up the chain then I will return it.

[frenchmon]

I can go as high as $400 to $500 (maybe) I would like a stage where I can have some control over gain or cap, or even both. Have you guys heard anything on the Blue Circle Fon Lo Thingee?

The only thing I've heard about the Blue Circle Thingee is how surprisingly great it is...The two that comes to mind is the Jolida JD9 and the Jasmine. I've also read good things about the Vincent Audio PHO-8 Phono Preamp, Clearaudio Nano Phono Preamp, Creek OBH-18 MM Phono Preamp, Musical Fidelity V-LPS MKII all in your budget... and also the Lehmann Black Cube Statement Phono Preamp at $500 and external Lehmann PWX Power Supply which is sold separate at another $500. I bet the Lehman units are great together.

[frenchmon]

Well, I asked about Audio Advisor because I just pulled the trigger on a Schiit Bifrost. It ended up being $100 cheaper because I live in California and Schiit would charge me tax if I bought from them directly.
I am going to compare it to the Beresford and if it's not a good move up the chain then I will return it.

Oh...! Good for you! Let us know how you like it.

[02audionoob]

I can float those specs with my Jelco 370 cause its 18 grams with the optional heavier counterweight, but I was hoping to use one for my MA-505 that is rated at 7 grams. I need to find a killer high compliant cart!!! (without breaking the bank of course)

Trying to finish off the system I'll be happy with for the next 5 years or so (or until I get a fat raise :D )

Noob, you are Rega tail down, and I'm Micro tail up :D

Sounds like you need one of these?

Soundsmith built phono cartridges (http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/movingiron.html)

[Enochrome]

Sounds like you need one of these?

Soundsmith built phono cartridges (http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/movingiron.html)

Oooooohhh....that SMMC4 looks tasty :arf:

[Enochrome]

The only thing I've heard about the Blue Circle Thingee is how surprisingly great it is...The two that comes to mind is the Jolida JD9 and the Jasmine. I've also read good things about the Vincent Audio PHO-8 Phono Preamp, Clearaudio Nano Phono Preamp, Creek OBH-18 MM Phono Preamp, Musical Fidelity V-LPS MKII all in your budget... and also the Lehmann Black Cube Statement Phono Preamp at $500 and external Lehmann PWX Power Supply which is sold separate at another $500. I bet the Lehman units are great together.

I think the Lehmman and the Jasmine are looking tasty as well :arf:

The JD9 and Jasmine are killer for mods just because of the topology of the layout is made for it. Whether that was intentional or not, I don't know.

[Enochrome]

Oh man the phono pre will have to wait, I just dropped some bills on getting my Thorens fixed. Man that table is a money pit.

[frenchmon]

Oh man the phono pre will have to wait, I just dropped some bills on getting my Thorens fixed. Man that table is a money pit.

Whats wrong with your table?