pulled trigger on class d audio

[harley .guy07]

Well after hearing a lot of press about them I finally decided to pull the trigger on a class D audio amp and it is ordered and on its way. i decided to give the 440c amp a try since it have more than enough power for almost any speaker I will likely be getting in the future and should be a good match with my Dynaudios. I will be retiring my Adcom to use it for a rear channel amp since it is getting older and needs a more relaxed job and the rear channels in my system should be a good place for that. Will let you guys know what I think after it comes in and I have a chance to listen to it.

[Hyfi]

Congrats, keep us updated. I'm really interested in how they drive the Danes.

[Feanor]

Well after hearing a lot of press about them I finally decided to pull the trigger on a class D audio amp and it is ordered and on its way. i decided to give the 440c amp ...
Hope you enjoy it, Harley. We await your impressions.

I've generally enjoyed my 258, the most transparent amp I've owned and the best for accurate instrument timbres. IMO, the CDA amps are by no means "tube-like" as their descriptions say (or used to). They are the antithesis of "veiled" or grainy but don't deliver "harmonic richness" or long "decays" that aren't actually in the recording. They are ultra-neutral but some will fine them bright.

[Hyfi]

Hope you enjoy it, Harley. We await your impressions.

I've generally enjoyed my 258, the most transparent amp I've owned and the best for accurate instrument timbres. IMO, the CDA amps are by no means "tube-like" as their descriptions say (or used to). They are the antithesis of "veiled" or grainy but don't deliver "harmonic richness" or long "decays" that aren't actually in the recording. They are ultra-neutral but some will fine them bright.

That almost sounds like a good description of my Counterpoint amp.

[Ajani]

Well after hearing a lot of press about them I finally decided to pull the trigger on a class D audio amp and it is ordered and on its way. i decided to give the 440c amp a try since it have more than enough power for almost any speaker I will likely be getting in the future and should be a good match with my Dynaudios. I will be retiring my Adcom to use it for a rear channel amp since it is getting older and needs a more relaxed job and the rear channels in my system should be a good place for that. Will let you guys know what I think after it comes in and I have a chance to listen to it.

Congrats! The 440C looks like a great deal. I can't wait to hear your impressions.

[LeRoy]

Congrat's Harley. I wonder of digital amps need time to break in like tubes or ss...you will be finding out soon.

[blackraven]

Congrats!. I think that you will really like the smooth sound of these amps. They produce a very nice tight and deep bass and have no grain. I do however find the sound to lean a little bit on the sunny side. Placing some 0.5ohm resistors in my MMG's fixed the problem

[frenchmon]

Congrats Harley! I cant wait to read your thoughts..I wonder how well it will do with your NU-FORCE preamp. Are you going to try that configuration?

[frenchmon]

I cant seem to find that amp at CLass D Audio....do you have a link?

[Ajani]

Here's the link:

Class D Audio SDS-440C Class D Audio Amplifier (http://classdaudio.com/complete-amplifiers/sds-440c-class-d-audio-amplifier.html)

[frenchmon]

Thank you sir!

[harley .guy07]

yes sir I am going to try the Nuforce preamp with the class d audio to see how it works together. I should think it should work fine and I ordered balanced cables since both units use balanced cables and I will let you know when it gets here and I get a chance to hear it for myself and see if it lives up to what people are talking about.

[E-Stat]

but don't deliver "harmonic richness" or long "decays" that aren't actually in the recording.

Built in reverb feature? Which products should we avoid in that regard?

[Feanor]

Built in reverb feature {"decays")? Which products should we avoid in that regard?
Dunno, ask RGA, he's the guy who talks about decays and how they're missing from solid state amps and generally most things except SETs.

[E-Stat]

Dunno, ask RGA, he's the guy who talks about decays and how they're missing from solid state amps and generally most things except SETs.
I see. You've never heard this phenomena yourself. Perhaps you are misstating something he's said. Can you point to anything in particular?

[Feanor]

I see. You've never heard this phenomena yourself. Perhaps you are misstating something he's said. Can you point to anything in particular?
No, I'm not misstating him; perhaps I'll look for quotes at some point.

Decay? Yes, the trailing edge of notes, e.g. of piano, revealing instrument timbre as sound dies away. Yes, I've heard that. It is RGA's contention the tube amps, especially SET, have more natural sound of decays -- i.e. one he likes better.

[E-Stat]

Yes, I've heard that. It is RGA's contention the tube amps, especially SET, have more natural sound of decays .
Well, that is clearly different from "long decays that aren't in the recording".

I would agree that some amplifiers render micro dynamics better than others.

[Feanor]

Yes, I've heard that. It is RGA's contention the tube amps, especially SET, have more natural sound of decays.

Well, that is clearly different from "long decays that aren't in the recording".
...
I think not; he has described s/s decays as being "short".

"Long" decays would presumably be related to the "harmonic richness/fullness" characteristic of (some) tube amps. As I've stated on many occasions, my hunch is that this is an artificiality of these designs.

[E-Stat]

I think not; he has described s/s decays as being "short".
Really.


"Long" decays would presumably be related to the "harmonic richness/fullness" characteristic of (some) tube amps.
Presumably? You cannot "extend" a decay with harmonic distortion. You can change its tone, but not duration. That's reverberation.

Still wondering what you read you give you this strange notion that tube amps add reverberation to recordings.

You say you've never heard that before. Neither have I! before.

Edit: did a search on "decay" by RGA. What I find is he uses this term somewhat differently than do I. First of all, he says panel speakers never get this right. Huh? Right. Nearly massless drivers cannot convey the time domain correctly.

Anyway, I found one reference to "better decay" as in the qualitative sense. Its that low level detail to which I earlier referred.

What I also found was something that completely contradicts your assertion that it is the additive harmonic content (which you cannot hear - and I've proven that to myself with tests) is responsible. Read this post again:

distortion only affects.. (http://forums.audioreview.com/358754-post28.html)

[Feanor]

...
You cannot "extend" a decay with harmonic distortion. You can change its tone, but not duration. That's reverberation.

Still wondering what you read you give you this strange notion that tube amps add reverberation to recordings.

Extended decays are RGA's notion, not mind. As for reverberation or "false ambience" as I've described it, I heard this from my tube preamp.


...
Edit: did a search on "decay" by RGA. What I find is he uses this term somewhat differently than do I. First of all, he says panel speakers never get this right. Huh? Right. Nearly massless drivers cannot convey the time domain correctly.

I'm with you there.


...
Anyway, I found one reference to "better decay" as in the qualitative sense. Its that low level detail to which I earlier referred.

What I also found was something that completely contradicts your assertion that it is the additive harmonic content (which you cannot hear - and I've proven that to myself with tests) is responsible. Read this post again:

distortion only affects.. (http://forums.audioreview.com/358754-post28.html)
The "something" you refer to in in this instance is assertion by RGA which I don't necessarily agree.

How about this gem of concentrated rubbish?


...
In other words the great tube amp may be giving you 95% of what is on the recording and adding 5% in various distortion artifacts but it a SS amp may only be providing 70% of the recording and .0005% distortion but it has missed 25% of what is really there on the recording
...
I don't know what causes tube artifacts, I have only hypothesised that it's distortion. You assert that you have proven to yourself that you can't hear tube distortion; have you run the same sort of test to determine whether you can hear .001% THD that contains levels of high-order distortion produced by decent s/s amps?

[E-Stat]

Extended decays are RGA's notion, not mind. As for reverberation or "false ambience" as I've described it, I heard this from my tube preamp.
Added noise alone will add false ambience when your comparison is to using no preamp - as I have done. That has nothing to do with the nature of the active device or its harmonic structure. Or, you just had a poor example of tube electronics. Is that company still in business? How many different tube line stages have you heard ?


You assert that you have proven to yourself that you can't hear tube distortion
What I assert is that using the online distortion test I posted about years ago, I could not resolve lower than 2% harmonic distortion. I invited you to challenge your preconceptions and you declined.



; have you run the same sort of test to determine whether you can hear .001% THD that contains levels of high-order distortion produced by decent s/s amps?
I have not but would expect a very different result. First of all, you remain stuck in the static world. Circuits, especially those with negative feedback, perform differently in the dynamic world than the static and averaged world - where such measurement are taken. Instantaneous distortion can be many multiples of steady state.

[Feanor]

...
What I assert is that using the online distortion test I posted about years ago, I could not resolve lower than 2% harmonic distortion. I invited you to challenge your preconceptions and you declined.
...
I'm willing: lend me you VTLs for a couple of months.

[E-Stat]

I'm willing: lend me you VTLs for a couple of months.
It is sad that while the internet has brought us together from afar, we can rarely share the experience together.

I know there are some guys here who have been able to meet each other and share listening. I was able to visit a retired engineer from AA during a business trip. I ended up leaving way after midnight and had an early appointment the next day. There just wasn't enough time.

BTW, the amps were shipped strapped together on a pallet via trucking line. They weigh more than I do.

[Feanor]

It is sad that while the internet has brought us together from afar, we can rarely share the experience together.

I know there are some guys here who have been able to meet each other and share listening. I was able to visit a retired engineer from AA during a business trip. I ended up leaving way after midnight and had an early appointment the next day. There just wasn't enough time.

BTW, the amps were shipped strapped together on a pallet via trucking line. They weigh more than I do.
I'd love to hear 'em. You have a standing invitation to visit whenever you're in this neck of the woods, BTW.
:16:

[TheHills44060]

Interested to see your thoughts after you try it out harley.

[harley .guy07]

Well I got it in and have had the first chance to listen to it after hooking it up last night and so far I am very pleased with its performance. The first things I noticed when compared to the Adcom I have been running for years is that the bass is much more detailed and seems tighter and seems to have much more slam to it but that might be that fact that is have so much more power but I have heard others comment on the bass performance of these amps. Another couple of things is that the soundstage is much wider and the instruments seem to have better locational abilities within it so everything is much more where it should be in the performance. Also the imaging was good before but this amp seems to take it to the next level. And the last thing I will mention until I have time to spend a lot more time listening is that the detail and musical depth of this amp is something to love, It seems to pull everything out of the music that is there and puts it out for you to hear better than I have heard my speakers before and that is without sounding harsh or too bright. It does seem to have a smoothness that is very nice and it is one of the most quite amps I have heard in any system so far as far as noise goes it does not have any. Like I said I will keep listening and keep you guys posted as I hear more things.

[Ajani]

Well I got it in and have had the first chance to listen to it after hooking it up last night and so far I am very pleased with its performance. The first things I noticed when compared to the Adcom I have been running for years is that the bass is much more detailed and seems tighter and seems to have much more slam to it but that might be that fact that is have so much more power but I have heard others comment on the bass performance of these amps. Another couple of things is that the soundstage is much wider and the instruments seem to have better locational abilities within it so everything is much more where it should be in the performance. Also the imaging was good before but this amp seems to take it to the next level. And the last thing I will mention until I have time to spend a lot more time listening is that the detail and musical depth of this amp is something to love, It seems to pull everything out of the music that is there and puts it out for you to hear better than I have heard my speakers before and that is without sounding harsh or too bright. It does seem to have a smoothness that is very nice and it is one of the most quite amps I have heard in any system so far as far as noise goes it does not have any. Like I said I will keep listening and keep you guys posted as I hear more things.

No idea how I missed this post, but congrats on the new amp!!!!

Please keep us updated, especially with pics...