Should we thank Israel for the new gas prices?

[Hyfi]

So once again, sanctions against Iran, for building nukes to bomb Israel with is causing me to pay more at the pump.

Why does the US and a few other countries cater to Israel all the time at the cost to taxpayers in billions of aid, guns, bombs and now higher gas prices for us all?

Israel has nothing to offer the rest of the world besides the Uzi, and a few knock off Kant-Twist clamps I bought years ago when working in the machine shop.

So what would we really lose if Israel did not exist anymore. The US is mostly responsible for the existence anyway.

I for one am sick of my hard earned money being sent there to protect their sorry little butts. How about they defend themselves for a change and let the chips fall where they may?

And before the attacks come, this is not an attack on the Jewish Religion nor do I advocate that all Israelis should be bombed to extinction. It is an attack on those who unconditionally protect a country that has nothing really to offer the rest of the world except for what many believe is the holy land.

And wouldn't that little place in the sand still be there no matter what the country was called that housed it?

Things are just great now that we are all paying close to $4 /gal and up just because Iran hates Israel, along with those who protect her.

[JohnMichael]

Could you supply sources to back up your statements. I have heard other reasons for the increased gas prices. I am using my iPhone and I am working so I am not able to research your claims.

[Hyfi]

You can google it when you get a chance, or just watch you nightly news. It does not seem to be a secret that someone, Israel with the help of US, has been assassinating all the Iranian Nuclear Engineers.

It's also no secret that Iran and Israel are close to war right now anyway.

So if I am way off base, why would Iran be developing Nukes at the same time they are about to war with Israel and at the same time someone is killing off their Nuclear Scientists.

Then the US and other countries place MORE sanctions on Iran and the price of gas sky rockets.

This stuff is pretty much a no-brainer if you remotely pay attention to what has been going on for the last 2000 years.

[Feanor]

So once again, sanctions against Iran, for building nukes to bomb Israel with is causing me to pay more at the pump.

Why does the US and a few other countries cater to Israel all the time at the cost to taxpayers in billions of aid, guns, bombs and now higher gas prices for us all?

Israel has nothing to offer the rest of the world besides the Uzi, and a few knock off Kant-Twist clamps I bought years ago when working in the machine shop.

So what would we really lose if Israel did not exist anymore. The US is mostly responsible for the existence anyway.

I for one am sick of my hard earned money being sent there to protect their sorry little butts. How about they defend themselves for a change and let the chips fall where they may?

And before the attacks come, this is not an attack on the Jewish Religion nor do I advocate that all Israelis should be bombed to extinction. It is an attack on those who unconditionally protect a country that has nothing really to offer the rest of the world except for what many believe is the holy land.

And wouldn't that little place in the sand still be there no matter what the country was called that housed it?

Things are just great now that we are all paying close to $4 /gal and up just because Iran hates Israel, along with those who protect her.
The current gas price increases are "fuelled" (pardon the pun) by speculation re. the Iranian situation. But there has been no actual disruption of supply and, in the short term, suppliers such as Saudi Arabian could compensate for an Iranian shortfall. So blame the speculators. These include, BTW, big US banks who arguably should not be speculating with our money, and who could be banned from this practice if new regulations before Congress were passed.

But as for Israel, it has been the tail that's waging US foreign policy for a long time. Americans, sorry but please understand that the USA is generally hated all Arab and most other Islamic countries: the US' unconditional support for the Israel, i.e. the actions of the Israeli government for many year has largely been the cause -- or at least the excuse -- for this hatred.

Figure it out: there are 1400 million Muslims and 12 million Jews (not all of whom are Zionists). Do the math. It just isn't in the interest of the US to support Israel unconditionally as it has. A strong case could be made that it isn't in the interest of Israel itself either, because the best guarantor of the continued existence of Israel would be an agreeable peace with its neighbours.

The USA could invoke justice as well as pragmatism to justify an end to its subservience to every whim of the Israeli government . I'm referring to the deplorable treatment of the Palestinians; (the only justification for which seems to be, "Well they should be grateful we don't treat them worse"). Whether there ought to be sanctions against Iran we might debate, but there certainly ought to be sanctions against Israel its treatment of the Palestinians.

The US' irrational support for Israel against its own interests is another example of big money controlling American politics. I'm speaking most notably of AIPAC, (which SEE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC)). Other pro-Zionists include wacko Fundamentalist Christians who are hoping for the restoration of the Temple to begin the end times -- thanks, guys.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/Aipac_logo.PNG/200px-Aipac_logo.PNG

Historically the existence of Israel is hard to justify. In fact it is the illegitimate child of western (particularly British) imperialism. The best thing to happen would for it to be dissolved as Jewish state. It would be nice if a single, non-sectarian Palestine could come about, but that's not likely, so if Israeli Jews need somewhere to go, the US, Canada, and western supports should offer them sanctuary -- in fact these folks would make a great contribution to receiving countries.

So am I anti-Semitic for saying these things? No, I'm not.. Though AIPAC and other (pro-) Zionist organizations would like to make criticism of Israel synonymous with anti-Semitism, it is not. Certainly anti-Semitism does exist; sadly some of it is being caused by the actions of the Israeli government and the US' mindless support for Israel.

[markw]

Before the 1930's, the Jews were fairly well assimilated into many countries and cultures.

Israel only came into existance about 62 years ago. And then only because a goodly portion of the world took it upon itself to exterminate them. Once that threat was out of the way, most of the rest of the world saw fit to give them their own homeland.

From what they've done as farming that fairly barren land, I'd say the rest area could learn a few things from them.

[Feanor]

Before the 1930's, the Jews were fairly well assimilated into many countries and cultures.

Israel only came into existance about 62 years ago. And then only because a goodly portion of the world took it upon itself to exterminate them. Once that threat was out of the way, most of the rest of the world saw fit to give them their own homeland.

From what they've done as farming that fairly barren land, I'd say the rest area could learn a few things from them.
Anti-semitism certainly does go back 2000, and least as far as the destruction of Jerusalem by the Rome and arguably to the Babylonian Captivity which was 2400 years ago. If "Jews were fairly well assimilated into many countries" in the '30's, there was discrimination in most to these including the USA. And there was very rank and heinous persecution in a good many others.

Unfortunately the state of Israel, founded as it was without historic justification, the illegitimate child of British imperialism, has done nothing to end Anti-semitism or its effects. On the contrary it is the cause of additional Anti-semitism in most of the world.

[bobsticks]

So once again, sanctions against Iran, for building nukes to bomb Israel with is causing me to pay more at the pump...

While that circumstance is a component of the justification for the price fluctuations we're seeing I think it's an oversimplification.




The current gas price increases are "fuelled" (pardon the pun) by speculation re. the Iranian situation. But there has been no actual disruption of supply and, in the short term, suppliers such as Saudi Arabian could compensate for an Iranian shortfall. So blame the speculators. These include, BTW, big US banks who arguably should not be speculating with our money, and who could be banned from this practice if new regulations before Congress were passed.

Simply, "yes".

The complete toothlessness of the Volker Rule section of Frank Dodd has allowed for inappropriate speculation, and by point of fact, manipulation of oil futures through both domestic and foreign concerns. The major investment houses in London are currently reaping the biggest reward from short term speculation---which is almost an exact replay of last year...

And, no, there is no real shortage. In addition to increased Saudi output the Canadians have upped their own production by 3% with Mexico adding another 1%.


But as for Israel, it has been the tail that's waging US foreign policy for a long time. Americans, sorry but please understand that the USA is generally hated all Arab and most other Islamic countries: the US' unconditional support for the Israel, i.e. the actions of the Israeli government for many year has largely been the cause -- or at least the excuse -- for this hatred.

Figure it out: there are 1400 million Muslims and 12 million Jews (not all of whom are Zionists). Do the math. It just isn't in the interest of the US to support Israel unconditionally as it has. A strong case could be made that it isn't in the interest of Israel itself either, because the best guarantor of the continued existence of Israel would be an agreeable peace with its neighbours.

There's probably a lot more reasons than that they hate us...but I tend not to lose too much sleep over things completely beyond my control...

...Nice move though, right? 12 million against a billion...thank you UK, thank you US, thank you China...and let's not forget the UNSCOP nations...yes, yes thank you all so very little...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

"And, no, there is no real shortage. In addition to increased Saudi output the Canadians have upped their own production by 3% with Mexico adding another 1%. "

And don't forget we have become an exporter as well.

[bobsticks]

And don't forget we have become an exporter as well.

True that, my friend...

This morning, crude oil prices actually went down, Israel announced that if it were to conduct a pre-emptive military strike it would not inform the United States (hence "unilateral") and gas prices still went up.

By the way, tomorrow the national average should go down slightly to the $3.59 to $3.62 area, slightly below it's current rate but still twenty percent over last year's figure. I'm just sayin'...

[Hyfi]

One of the biggest problems with gas/oil prices is that the politicians are very heavily invested in oil companies that the profits they are bringin in offset the gas they don't even have to pay for because we the taxpayers are paying it for them as well as ourselves.

Bush Sr and Jr didn't give a rats ass since they own a huge percentage of an Oil Company.

[Feanor]

...
This morning, crude oil prices actually went down, Israel announced that if it were to conduct a pre-emptive military strike it would not inform the United States (hence "unilateral") and gas prices still went up.
...
Speculators love a good scare. The rest of us not so much.

Anne Marie Slaughter (e.g.), former Director of Policy Planning for the US State Dept., recently stated on the MSNBC 'UP' show that the the USA "could do nothing" to prevent unilateral Israeli action against Iran. (Watch HERE (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46530464#46530464)). Amazing, but we need to remember that the USA is a client state of Israel, not the other way around.

What do you call citIzens who forward the interests of another state against their own? I call them "AIPAC".

[Hyfi]

Speculators love a good scare. The rest of us not so much.

Anne Marie Slaughter (e.g.), former Director of Policy Planning for the US State Dept., recently stated on the MSNBC 'UP' show that the the USA "could do nothing" to prevent unilateral Israeli action against Iran. (Watch HERE (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46530464#46530464)). Amazing, but we need to remember that the USA is a client state of Israel, not the other way around.

What do you call citIzens who forward the interests of another state against their own? I call them "AIPAC".

The fact remains that Israel can do NOTHING on their own. The money that keeps them as a country, the military backing, and the basis of their existence comes from US taxpayer money and the fact that our political machine is in bed with them.

Do you really think they are knocking off all the Iranian Nuclear Scientists all by themselves and that the CIA or other covert-black opps agency doesn't know about it or are actually helping them?

[bobsticks]

It occured to me this morning that Feanor and I both contributed to a thread in which our world views not only didn't abruptly collide but were in agreement. Chalk one up for the forces of conciliation.

[Feanor]

It occured to me this morning that Feanor and I both contributed to a thread in which our world views not only didn't abruptly collide but were in agreement. Chalk one up for the forces of conciliation.
Yeah, great mind occasionally think alike. :thumbsup:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yeah, great mind occasionally think alike. :thumbsup:

Watching you two bury the hatchet in public like this is making me very Verklemp......talk amongst yourselves while i regain my composure

[bobsticks]

Watching you two bury the hatchet in public like this is making me very Verklemp......talk amongst yourselves while i regain my composure

Lawl, it's just cawfee tawk...it won't last...