A new phono preamp

[JohnMichael]

My fourth phono preamp has been delivered. I am trying the Simaudio Moon 110LP. I am enjoying the Grado Statement Sonata. I have been running it through the Graham Slee Fanfare which loads the cartridge at 470 Ohms. The Grado is designed for 47K Ohms and the 110LP will allow me to select 47K and 60db of gain.

I considered the Grado phono preamp which has two gain settings but no other loading options than the 47K. Since I have other cartridges I wanted to be able to have a little flexibility.

The Rotel when used with the low output Grado in MC mode loads the cartridge with 100 Ohms as does the Cambridge Audio 640P. The Rotel is a little more sensitive than the CA 640P but neither has the gain for the dynamics I expect. The Fanfare is better matched to the output of the Grado.

When I am home and open it up I will set the jumpers to work with the Grado. Then plug it in and give it a listen. I know it may take up to 200 hours to fully burn-in. I am expecting better sound due to better build quality and proper loading. I will be comparing it most closely to the Fanfare. If it is not better back it goes.

I bought the Graham Slee for his belief that phono preamps are better made for only one gain stage. I wanted to try the 110LP for the choice of loading and gain at a very reasonable cost.

[frenchmon]

Congrats...looking forward to your review.

[JohnMichael]

Right out of the box and plugged in my response was silky. Obviously needs to open up but promising.

[JohnMichael]

Still too early to talk about sound, which is good by the way, but I wanted to talk about construction. It has a pretty circuit board. The layout, components and soldering look to be of high quality. The case is larger than the Fanfare and shields the components better since I am not troubled by low level music from a local radio station.

The jumpers are easy to change and should remain trouble free compared to the noise that can develop with switches. I did not change the capacitance level from the factory setting, loading was also factory set at 47k so the only change was to the 60db gain setting.

The only thing that seems of low quality is the same thing that was of low quality with the stock Fanfare and the CA 640P. The walwart would not impress. If a better power supply is made available I will probably buy one.

[frenchmon]

I wonder if the New Pangea power supply would work?? You think?

[JohnMichael]

I wonder if the New Pangea power supply would work?? You think?


I know it will with the CA 640P and it would be great if it worked with the Moon 110LP. As soon as I have time I will call AudioAdvisor.

[JohnMichael]

The Moon LP110 is sounding good. Some of the stridency I heard with violins is gone. This is a better phono stage than the other three. It is the quietest and much background noise is gone. I think the term blacker backgrounds apply here.

I thought the Fanfare had good depth but the Moon has better depth, layering and for the first time a sense of physical space. Listening to a Telarc recording of "The Rite of Spring" I heard a very defined sense of space.

I do not know how this compares with the earlier LP3 but the 110LP is well worth the money. There are other phono preamps that cost a lot more but I think the 110LP will satisfy for a long time.

I am using the Grado cartridge and the MoFi OML1's to evaluate the 110LP. Since the OML1's have the angled front baffle which time aligns the speaker I am able to hear the quality of imaging and soundstaging the 110LP brings to the party.

[frenchmon]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like a very good amp for the price. I had been thinking really hard about the Refex M really hard. I know a guy who was talking about selling his Ear 834p because the Refex M is just that good. But at $1200 man that's a lot of jack. I have always wondered about the 110LP ever scence Peabody told me I should get the Simaudio a few months ago. The price seems reasonable and it looks nice at that. Which one did you get the black or silver? Continue to update me please....I can't run my vinyl through my Rotel pre and out to the Vincent forever.

[frenchmon]

The only thing that seems of low quality is the same thing that was of low quality with the stock Fanfare and the CA 640P. The walwart would not impress. If a better power supply is made available I will probably buy one.

Looks like I found your power supply JM....I sent you a link in your PM. They say it will fit the 110LP


http://welbornelabs.com/images/sqz_newa.jpg

[JohnMichael]

Looks like I found your power supply JM....I sent you a link in your PM. They say it will fit the 110LP


http://welbornelabs.com/images/sqz_newa.jpg



Wow thank you. I think that will do the trick and it is also affordable. Thanks again.

[frenchmon]

Oh no problem JM! I think I might just follow your lead on the 110LP...and then follow that up with the power supply. Together I think they not only will sound good, but they make an attractive pair. I wonder if that power supply comes in a silver finish?

[JohnMichael]

Some of the sounds I thought indicated record wear was actually distortion from the phono preamp. The 110LP is so silent that my records are sounding better. It is much more immune from noise. I no longer have bleed through of the local country station with the 110LP as compared to the Fanfare using the same cartridge and cables.

[frenchmon]

Oh...I thought you meant distortion from the 110LP, but you mean from the fanfare. I wonder how the Reflex M has such good reviews but the fanfare seems to have its flaws? I guess some times the more expensive item in the same chain will just have less flaws. The 110LP seems like a very good amp, I am wondering how much improvement the Welborne power supply will add to the 110LP?

[JohnMichael]

Oh...I thought you meant distortion from the 110LP, but you mean from the fanfare. I wonder how the Reflex M has such good reviews but the fanfare seems to have its flaws? I guess some times the more expensive item in the same chain will just have less flaws. The 110LP seems like a very good amp, I am wondering how much improvement the Welborne power supply will add to the 110LP?



I hope to let you know soon. The distortion or noise that I was hearing may have been due to the case not shielding the circuit of the Fanfare. Someone who does not live so close to a radio transmitter may never hear it. The 110LP is either better shielded or the circuit layout better rejects interference. All I know is I am very pleased with the silence and the music.

[frenchmon]

JM...the 2M Black Recommended load capacitance is 150-300 pF

The 110LP End-user adjustable capacitance loading (0pF and 100pF)

Will that effect the 2M Black... would I be better not getting the 110LP ?

[JohnMichael]

JM...the 2M Black Recommended load capacitance is 150-300 pF

The 110LP End-user adjustable capacitance loading (0pF and 100pF)

Will that effect the 2M Black... would I be better not getting the 110LP ?



I have to admit I have never worried about capacitance loading. Many phono preamps do not have an option to vary capacitance. If I remember correctly you also have to take into account the capacitance of your tonearm cables. I am currently using the Grado and they are not sensitive to capacitance loading.

[frenchmon]

Ok....There is a guy over at Vinylengine who has the 110LP and the 2M Black and he loves it.

[JohnMichael]

I just ordered the upgrade power supply from Welborne Labs and I am sober. Seriously if it improves what I already have I will be very happy.

[frenchmon]

I just ordered the upgrade power supply from Welborne Labs and I am sober. Seriously if it improves what I already have I will be very happy.

Sober!!! Shame on you. Ordering sober takes all the suspense out of the purchase.....Just teasing you of course. I am 95% sure I may be following in your foot steps. I have read to many reviews stating how silent that amp is.

Right now, I have the TT going into the Rotel 1090 amp and then into the Vincent preamp. I have the volume on the Rotel set to the same loudness of the Musica Fidelity CDP when I play it. I don't know if CD's are just recorded badly but just about every record I play on the MMF-7.1 has better dynamics and staging and seperation and air than the CD's I play. And that with running the 7.1 through the Rotel preamp with the onboard phono stage, out of that into the Vincent tube preamp. And the 7.1 is still using the 2M Red. My Vinyl rig sounds wonderful as it is now. So when I get the phono stage and the 2M Black, I just really cant imagine ho w much better its going to sound, but I know it will.

[bajaed]

Frenchmon, you gettin ready to pull the trigger on the 2M Black? I'm anxious to hear how it sounds on the 7.1.

[frenchmon]

yeah....I am as well. The reason why I have not is because I was in no hurry...the Red sounds really good. It was a big difference coming from the way it sounded on the 2.1 to the 7.1. It was a night and day difference.

[frenchmon]

JM...hows the 110LP sounding?

[JohnMichael]

JM...hows the 110LP sounding?



I am playing around with my AlphaCore IC's both the Micropurl and the TQ2. The Fanfare sounded better with the Micropurl but the 110LP sounds best with the TQ2's. Now I am waiting on the power supply upgrade. Welborne had a sale on them and sold enough that they are waiting for a new shipment of cases.

If you love string instruments you will love the 110LP. Everything from acoustic guitar to violins, cellos, upright bass sound so natural. The contribution of the strings and body of the instrument are present. Depending on the recording the bow moving over the strings is more audible with this phono preamp.

Voices are more natural even on older recordings. I have a two record set by Judy Collins "So Early In The Spring The First Fifteen Years" and the recording quality varies from song to song. Even on this older and well played recording the lack of noise let's her voice shine through. Of course the Grado's have always been known for their reproduction of female voices.

Lack of noise = more music so I find most instruments are reproduced more accurately. Percussion has more detail with much less edge. Brass in large orchestral performances is more detailed and focused when with other phono stages the sound was poorly defined. I want to play a song on a live Helen Hume recording where she is backed by three tenor sax players who each take a solo and display their individual techniques.

I have tomorrow off so I plan a relaxing day of spinning vinyl. I will report more after an extended day of listening. Noise free is the way for me.

[frenchmon]

Wow! Sounds like a winner. I will kindly wait for your relaxing day of spinning to hear what you think.

BTW...I have run across two guys online who have that same outfit, 110LP and Welborne PSU and they love it.

[JohnMichael]

I am having a great day listeneing to some good jazz. Coleman Hawkins, Diana Krall and next up Helen Humes will be spinning. I am hearing how very good rhythm and timing are with the 110LP. When Diana has an intake of breath and there is that little bit of tension before the next words are sung. She takes a breath and I sit in anticipation waiting to hear what she does with it. I have had her "Quiet Nights" record for awhile but am truly hearing it for the first time.

The Grado and the 110LP are a great combination. The highs are present with no brightness or etch. Midrange is detailed and remains so during complex music. There is no sense of congestion. Massed strings sounds like many instruments being played instead of one massive string.

One of these days I need to try out the Benz MC Gold or the AT low output MC but for now I cannot imagine changing out the Grado. I have never had this level of musical enjoyment with the Grado, Benz, or AT through the Fanfare using the Slee PSU1. I think the 110LP is superior over my other three phono preamps with low output cartridges. When the Welborne power supply upgrade arrives I will be curious if a reasonably priced phono stage can be even better.

[frenchmon]

Dang you got me going JM! Cause I know ima getting that amp! Thanks.

[JohnMichael]

Welborne has not shipped the power supply upgrade I ordered on 2/20 but they did manage to charge me twice. Another charge on 2/23. I am not too happy right now.

[frenchmon]

WOW! Thats not good. Did you call them up?

[frenchmon]

I see they also make it hard to call them. You may want to read this link

Welborne Labs - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums (http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97135)

[JohnMichael]

I wished I had researched Welborne Labs before I ordered. I have already contested the second charge but I am feeling the need to cancel the order.

Welborne Labs business in trouble ? Be aware - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115112)


Welbourne Labs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - diyAudio (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/115516-welbourne-labs.html)

Welborne Labs service (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?129390-Welborne-Labs-service)

I am so used to excellent service from Music Direct and the Needle Doctor that I do not have much patience with companies that do not give good service and then charge you twice.

[frenchmon]

So it seems they either deliver the goods on time, or they take forever! I apologies JM...I feel like I am too blame seeing I gave you the link.

[JohnMichael]

So it seems they either deliver the goods on time, or they take forever! I apologies JM...I feel like I am too blame seeing I gave you the link.



You are not too blame at all. The link looks professional and his products if delivered I think might be nice. In this economy he may be struggling. I am patient he just needs to let me know what is happening. I also want to say it was my responsibility to check him out before ordering.

[frenchmon]

Well thanks JM, but I still feel like a jerk.

[JohnMichael]

I ordered the Welborne Labs power supply on 2/20 and I have not received it yet. I received one e-mail telling me there was trouble with the supplier shipping the cases. In the mean time I did receive a second charge on my credit card for the first product.

I called my credit card company again to dispute the charges. They will contact Welborne and they have up to 60 days to respond. I did send Welborne another email and tried to reach them by phone. No answer by either method.

[JohnMichael]

I just received UPS tracking notification and the power supply upgrade should be here on the 15th. I will post any improvements. Now I just have to worry about the duplicate charge.

[frenchmon]

Oh...well thats good news.

[JohnMichael]

A day late but the upgraded power supply will arrive today. I am going to listen to some vinyl before switching power supplies to the new Welborne power supply. Then I will relisten to the same records. As good as the 110LP is I am anxious to hear it with a good power supply.

[frenchmon]

A day late but the upgraded power supply will arrive today. I am going to listen to some vinyl before switching power supplies to the new Welborne power supply. Then I will relisten to the same records. As good as the 110LP is I am anxious to hear it with a good power supply.

Keep us posted.

[JohnMichael]

Well it is currently in use. Heavy and very nice construction. I purchased one of the better power cords and I am impressed with the construction. The umbilical cord from the power supply to the 110LP is obviously more substantial than the cable from the walwart.

At first I noticed an increase in surface noise but then I realized the highs were more open and extended. It was easy to differentiate between music and surface noise. I was quickly able to ignore it.

I will keep listening but it sounds like the 110LP with performance enhanced. Soundstage is larger. On a Telarc disc of "Rite Of Spring" one of the thwacks of the bass drum caused my dog to jump. Oh well I have to go Joni Mitchell is performing in the living room.

[frenchmon]

Good news to hear....I will be waiting for more updates.

[JohnMichael]

As good as the 110LP is over my previous phono preamps it reached a brand new level of performance. The power supply upgrade from Graham Slee for the Fanfare yielded some benefits but did not kick it up the way the Welborrne Lab PSU did. In defense of the Slee products I was picking up signal from the local radio station so that may have blocked some of the benefits I might have heard in a different location.

I will say that the 110LP is very good for a $600 phono preamp. I also want to say plan on buying a power supply upgrade. Without the PSU you will never know how good a preamp you have.

I purchased the Welborne Lab PSU assembled but you can save money buying the kit.

[frenchmon]

But the risk of receiving the Welborne is scarry. You got pics of the Welborne and 110LP together? I love eye candy.

[JohnMichael]

But the risk of receiving the Welborne is scarry. You got pics of the Welborne and 110LP together? I love eye candy.



I think for me the problem was I had never ordered anything that was built when ordered. I am used to Music Direct, AudioAdvisor and the Needle Doctor who are stockists. You order it, it is taken off the shelf and then boxed and shipped to you. I am not sure of where I was in the number of items to produce. I am just glad I have it.

I will take pictures but it is truly just a black box. The 110LP is on the top shelf between the Marantz 8001 and the Rega. The UPS is between my Sony cd recorder and the Krell S-300i.

[frenchmon]

So you think its ok to order from Welborne Labs? He is just slow in getting them out?

Right now I have the Grado phono amp in my system. I am going to compare it to the Simaudio in due time. I also have a new Wire World power cord in my system as well. The Electra™ 52. I did have the The Aurora™ 52 but it was Silver-clad and made my system bright. So I decided to go up the chain and get the Electra™ 52 which is not Silver and man does it have a very dark back ground...really sets instrument in space. The Wire World is driving the SA-T1.

The Grado is not a bad phono amp at all. It kicks the on board Rotel phone amp in the butt big time. The Grado just plays music with smoothness and musicality. Its warm in nature but not too warm. . Just enough detail blended with romance and passion. I mean its got personality. I am now listening to Joshua Redman "Mood Swing" seeing it is the news record I have. Together the smoothness and romatic nature of the Grado and the dark background of the Wire Word Electra 52, and the tubes of the Vincent makes for a very pleasing presentation. Cymbals sound natural. What I really like about the Grado is the pace and rhythm of the bottom and the mids....they make the music really swing. I will be comparing the Grado to the Simaudio in due time. The Grado has a very nice bottom but not boomy at all..just enough to blend in with the rest of the presentation so it all swings.

[frenchmon]

Other obsevations....

I remember when I had the Bel Canto DAC in my system it was a very detailed unit but still gave me goose bumps with female voices becasue of the richness and warmth that it gave in the mid-section. Like I said... Gave me goose bumps. The Bel Canto kinda gave a slight forward presentation of the voice where it kinda stood out from the music just a tad. The Bel Canto was very good at detail and romance.

Well the Grado has plenty of romance and passion in my system...and I have yet to listen to female voices, and you don't have the detail like Bel Canto. But thats ok... because it just swinging! no hard edges to anything but it just swings. Great pace and rythm and warmth. It pairs very well with the Vincent tubed preamp. The sound is very seductive. My albums seem to be in discovery mode for me. Its a very natural sound...and the seduction has you just listening in a very enjoyable way without being analytically. My system has never sounded this good. I mean the Grado has taken my MMF-7.1 up to another level! Sorry fellas, I am in my man cave....and my eyes are a little watered over due to the emotion that the Grado has added to my system....I have goose bumps and I have not even played any female voices yet.

[JohnMichael]

Almost makes me wonder if a Grado cart with a Grado pre amp might never let you out of the mancave. Officer the Anna Netrebko record was spinning but the cartridge was at the center of the record. The vicitm does not look like he has eaten or drank anything in days but he is smiling.

[frenchmon]

JM...I am now listening to Diana Krall on my XRAY. Mind you, my TT sounds better than my CDP, and my CDP is a really nice one. Its the Musical Fidelity XRAYv8 that comes with the XXX external Power Supply. I added a Pangea power cord to the XXX power supply about a month ago and it gave me a better presentation than with the stock power cord. Less noise and better sound stage. With the Wire World Aurora™ 52 power cord added to the Vincent SA-T1 preamp all I noticed was a little more air and bright upper ranges add to my system making every thing bright. So as I said before, I contacted my dealer and exchanged the Aurora™ 52 for the reference range of Wire World power cords and got the Electra™ 52. This cord has taken my SA-T1 up a notch or two! It has not only added a darker background, but it sounds more even across the entire sound stage. Things have a better decay. There is a certain plushness that was not in my system before. Brush strokes on the drums seem to even sound better than before. Its very hard to believe this level of fidelity is coming from my speakers...and this is what I am feeling and hearing now as I type. When I listen to records, the Grado alone with this Power Cord sounds amazing. I can hear things on vinyl that I know I never paid attention to before. What I believe has happen to my system is in the nature of the Electra™ 52 power cord. It has let the nature of the Vincent shine through as never before. There seems to be a level of tube warmth and sophistication that was not there before. Add the Nice presentation of the Grado to that, and a match made in heaven. I may have to ask my dealer if he is willing to sell this demo unit to me, and then I will compare it to the Simaudio.

JM have you changed power cords on the Krell? IF not you may want to try one of WW reference power cords....you may be surprised.

[frenchmon]

I am now listening to Anita Bakers album "Rapture". I have never listened to its presentation like this before.

The first thing I noticed is that the Grado seems to take the pops out of the vinyl. JM is that what dedicated phono preamps do? The second thing it does is makes everything sound really natural. The presentation is smooth, warm, and nothing is out of balance. The bass has a presence but smooth with the mids and still making every thing swing all together very nicely. Makes music very enjoyable indeed. Nothing is missing and makes nothing stand out more than the other unless a certain piece in the presentation is suppose to have more focus.

[frenchmon]

Dagg JM!! I am now listing to an album that I have played more so than many and its a little more worn with a few more ticks in the background and the Grado has removed them or covered them up, while at the same time making it all swing much better than before. This is one of my favorite Jazz albums...Paul Desmond "Glad to Be Unhappy" Its a little emotional album, and if you know anything about Paul Desmond, He is a very impassioned sax player. The Grado is nice with its rendition of music. It has a personality that goes well with Jazz and perhaps classical. It sorta reminds me of how Marantz Reference does music. Its not for those who rock 100% of the time I believe, but with its grace and eloquent presentation of warmth...body and soul, while still swinging is perfect for Jazz in my opinion. But I have yet to pull any hard rock out on vinyl. I don't think I have any...the closest is the Allman Brothers Band " At the Fillmore East"...I may have to dig that one out to see how the Grado presents it..

[JohnMichael]

My greatest reduction of surface noise came from using a lowered counterweight. The Moon 110LP did not seem to reduce surface noise but electronic hash you hear with budget electronics. The noise is more noticeable by it's absence. Once the 110LP was in the system the music was purer and silkier but not colored. The Welborne Lab PSU upgrade opened up the frequency extremes and the highs were more extended and transparent. Since the highs are more open and airy you can hear the surface noise more but it is more obviously noise and the music is more separate and distinct then before. It is very easy to ignore the surface noise. I do not want to give the impression that the 110LP/PSU increased the noise they only increased frequency extension and openness. I am also talking about low levels of surface noise unlike before when I was using the stock counter weight.