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JohnMichael
01-04-2012, 07:02 AM
My Krell S-300i is making noise in the right channel. The noise continues after the amp is in standby mode. The noise is more than a slight hiss that some amps have. When I talked to Krell this morning the service tech said I had better send it to them. I took the opportunity to mention my first S-300i had to be exchanged due to a bad switch on the front panel.

Well at least I saved the packaging. I also still have the Onkyo A9555. My nephews were in town for the Holidays and I asked them to help clean out the walk-in closet and I was going to give them the Onkyo, Ascend speakers and a Marantz cd player. They found better things to do and I am now happy they did.

Well no Krell for several weeks. I think I will use the RS6's since they are more efficient and easier to drive than the OML1's. I hope they get it fixed and this is the last problem I have. The good news is the 5 year warranty so other than the UPS shipping charges on a 43 pound amp it will not cost me anything.

The bad news is that I will worry about the reliability of the amp. When I had 2 issues with a Thorens table I ended up buying the Rega to have something dependable. Oh well maybe this problem was coming on gradually and the amp will sound even better after repair.

Ajani
01-04-2012, 08:27 AM
Sorry to hear about the Krell. I really hope they fix it quickly and it sounds better than ever.

It's always disappointing when audio gear stops working, especially products that aren't exactly cheap. I really wish that increases in the price of gear would also directly relate to increases in reliability. When my $800 Emotiva Amp crapped out, I opted to get rid of it (as it was always going to be a temporary amp anyway), but if it had been an $8K Levinson I'd have no choice but to get it repaired...

Hyfi
01-04-2012, 09:12 AM
Sorry to hear about your loss, if only temporary.

Oddly enough, I have been staring at that unit at some length as I try to decide what I would do when I need to downsize, which may not be that long from now since I can't really take care of my house and property with my back issues.

I got to hear one many years ago when the first one was released and I was buying sub $500 components and cannot remember how it sounded. I do remember that every larger Krell amp I heard, I liked.

Hope it comes back fast!

JohnMichael
01-04-2012, 09:53 AM
Thanks guys and at least I will not be without music. I may miss it more after the Onkyo takes it's place. Last night while playing some vinyl I rested a hand on the Krell while cleaning the stylus. I noticed the right side was not running as warm as the left. I am glad I realized there was a problem before anything worse happened.

TheHills44060
01-04-2012, 12:28 PM
Sorry to hear about that JM. Having to box that thing up and ship it out really stinks but at least you have an available backup and you are still under warranty (whew). I'd check a local dealer and see if they can take care of the legwork for you.


When my $800 Emotiva Amp crapped out...
The absolute hilariousness of this still has not worn off.

Ajani
01-04-2012, 01:18 PM
The absolute hilariousness of this still has not worn off.

Always happy to entertain you...

How is the McIntosh doing? I heard you're planning to ditch it for an Ice amp...

JohnMichael
01-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Always happy to entertain you...

How is the McIntosh doing? I heard you're planning to ditch it for an Ice amp...



It has been a long time since I have listened to the Onkyo which is a class D amp. It used to power the OML1's before I bought the Krell. I have never heard it with the RS6's. Should be an evening of packing up the Krell and installing the A-9555.

Ajani
01-04-2012, 01:37 PM
It has been a long time since I have listened to the Onkyo which is a class D amp. It used to power the OML1's before I bought the Krell. I have never heard it with the RS6's. Should be an evening of packing up the Krell and installing the A-9555.

Looking forward to your impressions...

JohnMichael
01-04-2012, 04:15 PM
Oh hell the Krell must have been slowly deteriorating in some way. The Onkyo is sounding incredible. I only have the first disc but the sound is sweet! When I first hooked up the Krell I thought it was excellent. The RS6's are sounding so fine. I think all my cable and speaker switching was due to the change in sound of the int. amp. I knew I was not happy with something and now I know the amp was developing a problem. I expect big things when it comes back. Oh and my intitial impression of the Onkyo is they can take their time with the Krell and fix it right.

Ajani
01-04-2012, 04:31 PM
Oh hell the Krell must have been slowly deteriorating in some way. The Onkyo is sounding incredible. I only have the first disc but the sound is sweet! When I first hooked up the Krell I thought it was excellent. The RS6's are sounding so fine. I think all my cable and speaker switching was due to the change in sound of the int. amp. I knew I was not happy with something and now I know the amp was developing a problem. I expect big things when it comes back. Oh and my intitial impression of the Onkyo is they can take their time with the Krell and fix it right.

Are you using the anti-cables with the RS6 & Onkyo?

JohnMichael
01-04-2012, 04:46 PM
Are you using the anti-cables with the RS6 & Onkyo?

No the binding posts will not accept the spades so I am back to the AQ Slates.

Ajani
01-04-2012, 05:02 PM
When you get the Krell back you might want to consider setting up a 2nd system with the Onkyo, RS6, CD5001 and Slates... Might be fun to have to 2 different set-ups to play around with depending on your mood...

JohnMichael
01-04-2012, 05:28 PM
When you get the Krell back you might want to consider setting up a 2nd system with the Onkyo, RS6, CD5001 and Slates... Might be fun to have to 2 different set-ups to play around with depending on your mood...


Might make a nice bedroom system. Of course the only bedroom I would have room is the dog's room.

JohnMichael
01-05-2012, 11:07 AM
The Onkyo is not bad but it is not a Krell. The bass is not there with the Onkyo. Not just in depth but in the fullness of the bass. The sound with the Onkyo is more two dimensional than the full bodied sounds of the Krell. Depth of soundstage with the Krell is so much better. I cannot wait for my RA number and to get it to UPS. The Onkyo is not bad but it is not a Krell.

Funny how something different is exciting at first but the longer the listen the more you hear. The more you hear the more you want the better componenet in the system. In fairness to the Onkyo it had not been used for any length of time for over two years. The sound may improve but not a Krell.

JohnMichael
01-05-2012, 04:51 PM
The Onkyo has warmed up a little in sound since it has played all day. A very good match for the RS6's. Nicely detailed sound as long as I am using the AlphaCore TQ2 IC's. The DNM Resons sure can smooth and grey up the sound.

The A-9555 and RS6's would make a great party system. The Onkyo has enough drive and a little agression to the sound which is making Lucinda Williams live album more exciting. Time to put down the air guitar and make dinner.

JohnMichael
01-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Well I called Krell service Wednesday and they told me to go online and fill out the form requesting a return authorization number. I did that and was wondering when I should expect that number. I tried calling and was only able to leave a message. I thought I would have had the number quickly. Any ideas how long this might take. I am anxious to send it out and get it back.

Ajani
01-06-2012, 04:54 PM
Well I called Krell service Wednesday and they told me to go online and fill out the form requesting a return authorization number. I did that and was wondering when I should expect that number. I tried calling and was only able to leave a message. I thought I would have had the number quickly. Any ideas how long this might take. I am anxious to send it out and get it back.

No idea how long it should take, but over 2 days seems ridiculous.

frenchmon
01-06-2012, 06:45 PM
Its a good thing you had the A-9555. I would have withdrawals if I did not have my music when I wanted it.

I hate to worry about any of my toys and when things will be back to normal.

RGA
01-06-2012, 07:42 PM
Unfortunately it is over the holidays when it can be slow for companies to respond often hiring temp staff to replace their vacationing regular staff - if they're even open.

It is interesting when I talk to dealer friends which lines they eventually drop based on returns. Dealers hate products that fail because while no company is immune the dealer is usually the one on the front line that has to deal with the complaints. Some outfits are very bad with dealers let alone customers. Other companies have those 20 year warranties - they fail just as often as other stuff but they deal with it quickly and effectively while others drag their feet. Commercial Electronics dropped a big name receiver line for poor customer service and slow repair times or not paying the dealers for their repair work.

The other big issue most people never consider is replacement parts. Many speaker makers and some CD and amp makers make a product and sell it. Great. But 10 years later and 3 model changes later the speaker company no longer makes the same tweeters or woofers or transformer or uses the same transport mechanism or laser reader.

So sure it's out of warranty buy you expect to be able to repair a 10 year old high end hi-fi item. You don't expect to have to throw your $7,000 speaker in the garbage bin and buy a new pair. And this happens a fair bit more than people think.

JohnMichael
01-06-2012, 07:54 PM
Unfortunately it is over the holidays when it can be slow for companies to respond often hiring temp staff to replace their vacationing regular staff - if they're even open.

It is interesting when I talk to dealer friends which lines they eventually drop based on returns. Dealers hate products that fail because while no company is immune the dealer is usually the one on the front line that has to deal with the complaints. Some outfits are very bad with dealers let alone customers. Other companies have those 20 year warranties - they fail just as often as other stuff but they deal with it quickly and effectively while others drag their feet. Commercial Electronics dropped a big name receiver line for poor customer service and slow repair times or not paying the dealers for their repair work.

The other big issue most people never consider is replacement parts. Many speaker makers and some CD and amp makers make a product and sell it. Great. But 10 years later and 3 model changes later the speaker company no longer makes the same tweeters or woofers or transformer or uses the same transport mechanism or laser reader.

So sure it's out of warranty buy you expect to be able to repair a 10 year old high end hi-fi item. You don't expect to have to throw your $7,000 speaker in the garbage bin and buy a new pair. And this happens a fair bit more than people think.



This must not have been written to make me feel better. The amp is still in production so I am not worried about parts availability. I just want to get it on it's way.

JohnMichael
01-06-2012, 08:12 PM
Its a good thing you had the A-9555. I would have withdrawals if I did not have my music when I wanted it.

I hate to worry about any of my toys and when things will be back to normal.



I am the same way with my toys. I had to send a Canon film camera in for repairs shortly after purchasing it but the camera came back fully functional. The repair was done so well you would never have known the camera had been repaired. Oh and it is time to send my Swiss chronometer in for a cleaning and reset and I will sweat that one out.

I hope they find the source of the problem and truly fix the Krell. I purchased it as the last int. amp I might ever need. The Thorens ttable that I had repaired twice came back with more wrong each time.

I now wish I kept the original amp that only had a bad switch on the faceplate but performed perfectly by remote. This was a big purchase for me at my income level as a caregiver so when I have had two problems now I feel a little foolish. Thought I was buying quality. The A-9555 I bought discounted for $500 has never failed to perform.

Ajani
01-06-2012, 08:49 PM
This was a big purchase for me at my income level as a caregiver so when I have had two problems now I feel a little foolish. Thought I was buying quality. The A-9555 I bought discounted for $500 has never failed to perform.


I feel your pain. Ideally a $2.5K amp should run flawlessly until whenever you decide to stop using it.

Sadly, that is the problem with buying luxury gear. No guarantee of better reliability than the cheaper stuff.

RGA
01-06-2012, 11:23 PM
John Micheal

The problem I think is that higher end audio to some degree is a bit like a sports car - there are more problems but the performance makes up for it.

I reviewed the Audio Note CD 2.1 and it uses what I deem to be a finnicky transport mechanism - it's the Philips L1210 - it's used in the Bryston and Sim Audio machines so it's regarded as a good transport by these makers.

Still I am more confident in my old Cambridge Audio CD 6 which was a Sanyo I believe. The AN player sounds vastly better but on build quality I don't think it's really any better - at least not from the outside - the AN uses better internals.

It's hard to sacrifice sound quality for better build quality though. I could have bought Bryston Separates with 20 year warranties on both over the Audio Note OTO Phono SE which comes with a 1 year warranty. But to me the former was completely unlistenable in direct comparison so I could own it for 20 years worry free but I would rather listen to it when it was turned off. Or roll the dice that superior parts quality in the latter would not need the protection of the warranty in the first place.

Ask me again in 14 years if I made the right choice. But on sound quality the choice was clear IMO.

I think too many people look at the outer case and physical impressiveness of the box - few look inside to see the parts quality. Partly why people like DIY - is because it's all about the parts. Of course they also have to consider the design.

I have heard a number of kits that cost the same as retail products - so in theory these DIY products should destroy a manufactured product for the same money - and that is not the case at least not all the time. There are things done at the big plants that home users can't do and those things can often be the difference maker. The overall design is critical not just the driver material or the cabinet material.

Ajani
01-07-2012, 04:01 AM
John Micheal

The problem I think is that higher end audio to some degree is a bit like a sports car - there are more problems but the performance makes up for it.

I agree with the idea that there is an increase in performance, but I don't agree that the performance makes up for the lack of reliability. Would you buy a $5K amp that makes every amp you've tried sound like crap, but comes with a 1 year warranty and is in notorious for falling apart in a year? (If I had loads of expendable income then sure, but with a middle class income that's not exactly pocket change). Many audiophiles do like JM and save their pennies for something really special, hoping that it will last them.


I have heard a number of kits that cost the same as retail products - so in theory these DIY products should destroy a manufactured product for the same money - and that is not the case at least not all the time. There are things done at the big plants that home users can't do and those things can often be the difference maker. The overall design is critical not just the driver material or the cabinet material.

Design is the most important aspect IMO. I could place the most expensive drivers and crossover I can afford in my old Technics 3 way cabinet, but that doesn't guarantee it will sound good (or even better than the original product). It's why I'm not convinced of the whole modder's market. Many of these proposed mods just seem like someone looked at the spec sheet of the product and came up with a random list of more expensive parts to replace the existing ones.

RGA
01-07-2012, 05:51 AM
I agree with the idea that there is an increase in performance, but I don't agree that the performance makes up for the lack of reliability. Would you buy a $5K amp that makes every amp you've tried sound like crap, but comes with a 1 year warranty and is in notorious for falling apart in a year? (If I had loads of expendable income then sure, but with a middle class income that's not exactly pocket change). Many audiophiles do like JM and save their pennies for something really special, hoping that it will last them.

I am not excusing the Krell - When you tout yourself as the creme de la creme of the Solid State world then IMO you can't have amps with faulty fuses or early failure - even at their entry level points. CD players failing is one thing since lots of moving parts - no 20 year warranty on a Bryston CD player you'll notice - you get 5 years (the average life of a CD player is 7 years so while it's better than most companies it's still not all that special - my Cambridge Audio I bought in 1996 and has been flawless since day one - and it was used as a demo for over a year and was turned on every day the shop was open. It's also had a period where it sat for two years unused so it has been put through the ringer. And that from what was considered entry level high end at the time. But it was an overbuilt unit in it's day from the parts used. The transport mechanism was the same one as their disc magic transport which was the reason I bought it and I liked it better than the Rega Planet. That said Cambridge Audio had problems with other products for a time.

Problems can occur so you hope that at the least the customer service will help out. Obviously you don't want something that sounds great but has an awful failure rate but it happens.



Design is the most important aspect IMO. I could place the most expensive drivers and crossover I can afford in my old Technics 3 way cabinet, but that doesn't guarantee it will sound good (or even better than the original product). It's why I'm not convinced of the whole modder's market. Many of these proposed mods just seem like someone looked at the spec sheet of the product and came up with a random list of more expensive parts to replace the existing ones.

I am not principally opposed to modifications but I agree - who knows what the modder's ability is - I knew a fellow who ran a silver cable company - he had silver cables had his own silk screen made up - and was a web designer so his site looked great. The guy had no metallurgy background or electronics background - he had a bench and soldering gun to attach connectors and that was it. Sold a lot of cables.

Even if you don't put any stock into cable differences at the very least a guy like Kondo San had a degree in metallurgy and was the chief engineer at Sony for many years designing microphones - so at least there is some expertise to the enterprise not just buying a reel of silver and putting sexy skins on them.

And my beef with the modder thing is why did you buy the "broken" product in the first place? If it didn't sound great the it has problems - so now you don't trust the guys who designed and built your amp speakers etc but you will trust the guy modding gear out of his garage?

Sure I get mods like Techo-weight for Rega tone arms - Rega is building to a price point and didn't want to drive the price up. Fair enough. Although to me it would make more sense for Rega to simply offer a P2 + or P2SE or P3 SE with the better tone arm bearing. Perhaps they didn't think it would be profitable enough.

Still from the consumer end of things a P3 with all the upgrades is now up in price to the level of an AN TT1 stock which will just clobber the maxed out P3. So to me the modding has to be added to the price of the original product - just as subwoofers need to be added to the cost of the main speakers and as a speaker system price versus another speaker that already has enough bass and perhaps much better mids and highs.

Lastly, to go to your point about the design - speakers are more than just drivers. And sorry to use AN as an example but they're basically the only company doing it - you can buy an AN E or J or K with the same cabinets and the same drivers and get a very different level of sound. The AN E kit I auditioned is quite nice but no home builder has the equipment that the AN factory has when actually pair matching the drivers to the actual cabinet or the computers and matching process to get the left and right speaker to be pair matched to each other - Then again their competitors don't either. But for this kind of speaker that relies on the cabinet resonances to be part of the sound you can't frak that up. The drivers, cabinets, crossover parts, wires are all the same but the factory product is IMO miles better. The magic of the thing just isn't really there.

The problem I see is people focus on the "cool driver" and don't factor in that the woofer actually needs to match that tweeter. One of the things that impresses me most about the little speaker I am currently reviewing is that I am not hearing the ribbon sound or the ribbon woofer gap that I hear with virtually all of these kinds of speakers. They have done a truly remarkable job of getting these two drivers to sound coherent. The woofer is small paper woofer 5inch or so.

Having said all that - DIY by Parts Express and some others is fine if their design is solid - and when paying a couple hundred it's hard to really go wrong.

To me the advantage of DIY would be in the Single driver Open baffle arena simply because you basically put all the money into the driver and some sort of box to hold the thing up at the right height not to tip over. Presuming you like the OB sound this makes sense. I like the sound and I like the purity in the midrange of the single drivers I have heard. Downside has been dynamics and the ability to pressurize a room - bass and treble response (though I can live with these a little truncated. Depends on the overall price versus what else can be had. Also like their ability to be driven with a SET. Simpler usually sounds better IME.

JohnMichael
01-07-2012, 07:02 AM
To answer part of RGA's response regarding modded tables. The nice thing about my Rega Planar 2 is how inexpensive it was to purchase and how absolutely dependable it has been. The purchase of mods were spread out over many years so the improvements have been painless. Modding the table has been as much fun as building a speaker.

On the other hand I would not buy a $500 table and $1000 worth of mods at once. I would buy a $1500 table. I still need to buy a new hard mount motor.

JohnMichael
01-07-2012, 12:24 PM
I had a thought to call Music Direct who sold me the amp for info about Krell. He assured me they have a very good service department and would be contacting me. He mentioned the holidays and people taking time off. He also said they are getting ready for CES but the "techies" will still be there. He felt I should hear something Monday.

Monday would be great since I am off and can take it to UPS to ship. It is all packed and ready to go. Then time to kill waiting for it's return. I am curious what they find is wrong with it. I am planning on it sounding better when I get it back.

JohnMichael
01-09-2012, 11:59 AM
Talked to Krell today and between some time off and installation of a new computer system they are a few days behind. I will be receiving the RA number in the next day or two. I will be glad to get the int. amp on it's way.

JohnMichael
01-10-2012, 12:09 PM
I received the RA number this morning along with some instructions. Tomorrow after work I will head to UPS and send it on it's way.

Feanor
01-10-2012, 01:26 PM
I received the RA number this morning along with some instructions. Tomorrow after work I will head to UPS and send it on it's way.
Good luck with it. Any component can fail, regardless of price or quality. I'm sure Krell will fix you up once again.

JohnMichael
01-11-2012, 07:42 AM
Good luck with it. Any component can fail, regardless of price or quality. I'm sure Krell will fix you up once again.



Thanks Feanor. Music Direct sounded very confident about the quality of their service. It is all packed, in the trunk and will be shipped via UPS. Insured of course. Then the few weeks for service.

JohnMichael
01-11-2012, 04:17 PM
I am home from UPS. I am $54.75 poorer. He asked me if I wanted to send it ground which would be the cheapest and I said yes and I want to insure it for $2,500. When he told me the charge I was glad I did not ask for next day air. I can imagine for what that might cost they better serve it a drink and a complimentary pillow. Oh well it will be there Friday.

JohnMichael
01-14-2012, 06:20 AM
Checking out the UPS tracking number last night I saw my amp made it to Krell. Now the wait for it's return. I am curious as to what is wrong with the amp. Weird that the right channel became noisy and the noise continued coming through the speaker once the amp was in standby mode.

JohnMichael
01-16-2012, 07:02 PM
Enjoy the tour.

Stereo Design Krell S-300i Integrated Amplifier in HD 2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o2cCPv49yQ)

JohnMichael
01-19-2012, 11:08 AM
My S-300i arrived at Krell this past Friday and they called to ask some questions since the tech is working on it today. I am curious what they find and ready for it's return.

JohnMichael
01-22-2012, 03:07 PM
I am missing the Krell. The Onkyo is okay but there is an edge to some music and female vocalists. The A-9555 imparts it's own sound to the music. The Krell is more transparent and refined. I do not hear any peaks or coloration added to the music. The Krell also does bass much better. I hope to hear some good news this week.

JohnMichael
01-27-2012, 05:55 PM
My Krell S-300i is home. It arrived today and I enjoyed carrying it up the flight of stairs to my second floor apartment. Wow I am out of shape. Anyway it is hooked up and playing. The S-300i is sounding better than when it was sent away.

I think two weeks from their receiving the amp to it being back home is a very reasonable amount of time. The packing slip indicates they repaired or replaced "Right channel amp rail". When I last spoke with Ray at Krell it sounds like they replaced the rail. Who cares it is back and sounding great.

The unit was so clean and so well repacked that I at first thought it was a new unit. The Krell service is very good. Also no charge for return shipping. All in all I am pleased.

frenchmon
01-28-2012, 06:57 AM
Good! Now let the music flow....and put the A-9555 back in its resting place. Lets hear some serious tunes...

And speaking of serious music...Can you give me the name of a very good classical recording where the music is really dynamic and wont put me to sleep with a lot of silent passages?

Thanks.

frenchmon
01-28-2012, 07:06 AM
There is a very powerful TV commercial playing in St. Louis right now of the St. Louis Symphony orchestra where they show you the dynamic of a powerful live concert. Boy was it powerful! I have to get to the symphony one of these days

JohnMichael
01-28-2012, 07:24 AM
The Onkyo is back in the closet. The Krell is singing sweetly again. When I first received the S-300i I was blown away by the int. amp. I returned the first unit for a bad selector button that worked well by remote. When I received the current model I was not as impressed but I thought I had adjusted to the sound. Now I wonder if the second model had a problem from the beginning and it worsened to the point I heard the distortion. I think it must have had a part that was out of spec or slowly failing.

Now that the repaired unit is back so is the sweet sounds and great soundstaging that first blew me away. I was listening to a new recording by Joshua Bell and loved the sound of his violin. I have yet to rock out with it but I will on Sunday, my next day off.

JohnMichael
02-20-2012, 06:34 AM
The S-300i is settled in and sounding incredible. Now that the unit is operating properly I was better able to decide on speakers. I can now more readily hear that the RS6's do dynamics well at the expense of flow. I am using the OML 1's for the flow, depth and imaging. Now that both channels are operating correctly I am happier with the bass response.

Much of the issues I contributed to other components was really the problem with the amp. As for now I am very happy with my current set-up. The only thing left to do is install the AntiCables my next day off from work.