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mlenda
12-24-2011, 07:10 AM
Hey folks,

I've got a turntable, I've got vinyls, and I've got ears. The first item I'm hunting down for my new HiFi system is an amplifier; perhaps integrated with preamp, DAC, etc.

Some details:

1) Source: Vinyl records -- via Audio Technica AT-PL120 turntable. It has the option of both line out and phono out, but given that the turntable itself is only a few hundred bucks brand new, I don't think that its built-in preamp is any good.

2) Budget: $1000-$1500 (for preamp+amp or single integrated amp)

3) Desired volume: I don't ever plan on taking this thing to 11 except for demos to the curious lady-friend (:3:). I'll be listening to my vinyls in a single square room, about 15'x15', with the typical furniture in there -- a bed, a desk, a coat rack. Long-term, I don't plan on having my hifi system in a room much different than this (until I make my first million, at least).

4) I own a pair of powered Behringer TRUTH B-2030A monitors that I purchased for recording purposes a few years ago. Still in top shape as far as I can tell. These may be the speakers I want to use with my shiny new amp, though I don't know just yet. Speakers are another story.

5) Other need-to-knows (from the thread above):
-This system will be dedicated to playing vinyls. That said, I am holding out for the possibility of having a DAC inside (integrated amps, anyone?) so I can hook up my computer or iPod and play music from my much larger digital library, but I don't want to make any sacrifices in sound quality just to get both vinyls and digital music to sound good -- I'm optimizing for my vinyls!
-I love tubes. I think.

The wealth of information from Google searches is... well, overwhelming. What's a good starting point? Who sells good stuff? Anybody know of places in LA where I can bring a few records and actually listen to the thing on which I'll be blowing $1500?

-m

blackraven
12-24-2011, 11:03 AM
Here are a few options for integrated amps-

Musical Fidelity - M3i - Intergrated Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MFM3I)

Music Hall - a70.2 Integrated Amp-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHA70%2E2)

Marantz - PM-8004 - Integrated Amplifer-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MAPM8004)

For amps-

Consider a used Adcom amp or-

Marantz - MM7025 - Two Channel Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MAMM7025)

Parasound - Halo A23 Balanced Amplifier-Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHA23)

For a preamp- consider used or if you don't mind going the Chinese route, consider the Grant Fidelity tube DAC-11 Preamp/DAC. I will be getting one for christmas and will do a review on it. The reviews on it have been very good.

Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 D/A Converter (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html)

JoeE SP9
12-24-2011, 11:19 AM
mlenda: br has given IMO excellent advice. The Grant Fidelity DAC is well reviewd. I've been looking at it myself.

BTW: Vinyl is both single and plural.

mlenda
12-24-2011, 11:52 AM
Hmm. I also stumbled on the "Peachtree Audio Nova (Black) Stereo integrated amplifier with built-in DAC."

Has USB in with a good DAC, home theater bypass, and is a tubey! But it doesn't appear to have a phono preamp.

-m

mlenda
12-24-2011, 11:59 AM
Ohh! Or, the NAD-C-165 BEE... no DAC, but choice of phono preamp MC vs. MM!

-m

Enochrome
12-24-2011, 12:15 PM
The Peachtree Nova is a good amp and has received great reviews. The DAC is really the high point of this piece of gear. Although, it has a tube, it is not really a tube amp. As far as I know the tube is either a buffer or provides a small amount of gain to the preamp (correct me if i'm wrong). I think the Musical Fidelity is good choice as well , they usually offer well made good all around performers.

I live in Eagle Rock right next door to you. There is a place called GNP Audio on Colorado just east past Old Town that sells the Peachtree. They are nice and will demo it for you. Also, if you would like to stop by with your speakers I have both a solid state integrated amp and an all tube integrated that you can listen to for a better idea of the differences between the two. It is much better to listen to gear with your own speakers instead of the $3000 speakers stores usually demo with.

Send me a message through this forum if you would like to cruise over for a better idea. No worries, just trying to help; buying gear can be nerve racking sometimes.

I would definitely invest in a good phono preamp and most likely you will have to go to Brooks Berdan in Monrovia if you want to demo. WARNING, they are high end and have few items that are budget, but they are nice guys. Phono stages like: Cambridge 640p, Creek OB series, Graham Slee, and Simaudio Moon series, Project Phono box series all have offerings of $350 or less.

Can you run those speakers in passive mode? If not, I don't see how you will be able to use those with an integrated. I would probably spend less on the amp and try to get good speakers as well. Speakers are easiest to demo and as well to buy used. You can get a pretty decent pair for 500 - $600 or a little less. I see people selling the Focal 706V/806V for 400/500 and those speakers kick ass!

blackraven
12-24-2011, 12:58 PM
Here is another amp to consider. Its a VAn Alstine integrated and you can add his excellent phono preamp to the chassi. His gear has a retro look but it is of great value and is always neutral to warmer sounding. It comes with a 30day money back, no questions asked guarentee and his customer services is second to none. Frank Van Alstine always answers his phone and is always happy to talk audio. He also is striving to improve his gear and many times offers mods and upgrades to his gear. avahifi - avahifi (http://www.avahifi.com/) and check out his forum on Audio by Van Alstine (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=48)

I own his Hybrid tube DAC and Hybrid Tube Preamp and both have been modded by him for reasonable cost with great improvement in sound. You rarely see his gear on the used market. He also offers home theater by pass switch mods for the amps if you plan on using it on the front end of a HT set up.

avahifi - Insight+ Integrated Control Amplifier (http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=131&Itemid=229)



I would definetly buy a phono preamp as well.

Consider these and look on audiogon.com for used one's at big savings-

Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-Tube-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35445) I have a friend that has this and it is a very nice sounding budget tube phono preamp. It is well reviewed and highly regarded.

Clearaudio Nano Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Nano-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35447)

Pro-Ject Tube Box II Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Tube-Box-II-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35467)

Pro-Ject Phono Box SE II Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Phono-Box-SE-II-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35467)

mlenda
12-24-2011, 01:57 PM
The Peachtree Nova is a good amp and has received great reviews. The DAC is really the high point of this piece of gear. Although, it has a tube, it is not really a tube amp. As far as I know the tube is either a buffer or provides a small amount of gain to the preamp (correct me if i'm wrong). I think the Musical Fidelity is good choice as well , they usually offer well made good all around performers.

I live in Eagle Rock right next door to you. There is a place called GNP Audio on Colorado just east past Old Town that sells the Peachtree. They are nice and will demo it for you. Also, if you would like to stop by with your speakers I have both a solid state integrated amp and an all tube integrated that you can listen to for a better idea of the differences between the two. It is much better to listen to gear with your own speakers instead of the $3000 speakers stores usually demo with.

Send me a message through this forum if you would like to cruise over for a better idea. No worries, just trying to help; buying gear can be nerve racking sometimes.

I would definitely invest in a good phono preamp and most likely you will have to go to Brooks Berdan in Monrovia if you want to demo. WARNING, they are high end and have few items that are budget, but they are nice guys. Phono stages like: Cambridge 640p, Creek OB series, Graham Slee, and Simaudio Moon series, Project Phono box series all have offerings of $350 or less.

Can you run those speakers in passive mode? If not, I don't see how you will be able to use those with an integrated. I would probably spend less on the amp and try to get good speakers as well. Speakers are easiest to demo and as well to buy used. You can get a pretty decent pair for 500 - $600 or a little less. I see people selling the Focal 706V/806V for 400/500 and those speakers kick ass!

Holy crap, how did I miss them? :mad2: I'm about 3 miles from them... nice find.

Now that I think about it, maybe requiring the amp to have a preamp too isn't what I want. Having control over the sound coming out of the TT is what I really want.

I will probably take you up on the offer of listening to your setup. I'll let you know when's best -- I'm in Colorado for the holidays. Thanks a bunch. Young guys like me need a guide!

-m


EDIT:

Hey, speaking of preamps...



Here is another amp to consider. Its a VAn Alstine integrated and you can add his excellent phono preamp to the chassi. His gear has a retro look but it is of great value and is always neutral to warmer sounding. It comes with a 30day money back, no questions asked guarentee and his customer services is second to none. Frank Van Alstine always answers his phone and is always happy to talk audio. He also is striving to improve his gear and many times offers mods and upgrades to his gear. www.avahif.com and check out his forum on avahifi - Insight+ Integrated Control Amplifier (http://www.audiocircles.com I own his Hybrid tube DAC and Hybrid Tube Preamp and both have been modded by him for reasonable cost with great improvement in sound. You rarely see his gear on the used market. He also offers home theater by pass switch mods for the amps if you plan on using it on the front end of a HT set up.

[url=http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=131&Itemid=229)



I would definetly buy a phono preamp as well.

Consider these and look on audiogon.com for used one's at big savings-

Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-Tube-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35445) I have a friend that has this and it is a very nice sounding budget tube phono preamp. It is well reviewed and highly regarded.

Clearaudio Nano Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Nano-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35447)

Pro-Ject Tube Box II Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Tube-Box-II-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35467)

Pro-Ject Phono Box SE II Phono Preamp (http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Phono-Box-SE-II-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35467)

I was recommended that Bellari by more than one person -- make that about four people now!

I guess this is where I need to find a place to listen to a whole bunch of them before I pull the trigger and regret it. It's all about that preamp...

Thanks!

-m

Enochrome
12-24-2011, 02:28 PM
M,

They have the Bellari at GNP Audio also

blackraven
12-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Here is a working link for the Van Alstine gear-

avahifi - avahifi (http://www.avahifi.com/)

avahifi - Insight+ Integrated Control Amplifier (http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=131&Itemid=229)

mlenda
12-25-2011, 09:30 AM
I've read some good reviews of not only the Pro-Ject Tube Box II, but also of its more expensive cousin the Tube Box SE II. I am willing to go big and throw down the money if it's that much better than, say, the Bellari. Need to demo them, though!

I'm thinking of going with the Peachtree Audio Nova as my amp. What I really like is its USB DAC -- perfect for playing my huge digital library. Plus I wouldn't be sacrificing money on an integrated amp with a preamp that isn't as good as a standalone preamp...

Now, I'm thinking of speakers... [/disappears to speakers forum]

-m

blackraven
12-25-2011, 10:15 AM
The Tube Box SE II is much better than the Bellari. I would only invest in a higher end phono preamp if you plan on upgrading your TT in the future. You should also think about a good phono Cartridge. You system is only as good as the weakest link, especially with TT's. The Clear Audio Nano phono preamp is a very good preamp and may be better than the Bellari.

If you want to go the Tube route for an amp, here is great buy on a used Van Alstine Tube amp- Scroll down to the bottom of the linked page.

avahifi - Used Equipment (http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125&Itemid=176)

avahifi - Ultimate 70 Vacuum Tube Amplifier (http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=171&Itemid=172)

mlenda
12-25-2011, 10:56 AM
The Tube Box SE II is much better than the Bellari. I would only invest in a higher end phono preamp if you plan on upgrading your TT in the future. You should also think about a good phono Cartridge. You system is only as good as the weakest link, especially with TT's. The Clear Audio Nano phono preamp is a very good preamp and may be better than the Bellari.

If you want to go the Tube route for an amp, here is great buy on a used Van Alstine Tube amp- Scroll down to the bottom of the linked page.

avahifi - Used Equipment (http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125&Itemid=176)

avahifi - Ultimate 70 Vacuum Tube Amplifier (http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=171&Itemid=172)

Agreed. The stock cartridge on the Audio Technica AT-PL120 (my TT) requires something like 3-5g of tracking force -- apparently pretty high. And it's not that great, from what I hear. I was thinking of replacing the cartridge right away. You think the whole TT needs an upgrade? I love my TT's features and don't want to shirk it all if a cartridge upgrade will get me a great improvement on its own.

-m

blackraven
12-25-2011, 01:19 PM
I would upgrade the rest of your system first then address your TT as money allows. You should look at gear that is a lot of bang for the buck, meaning performs at a higher level than its price.

mlenda
12-26-2011, 11:48 AM
Also like the Cambridge Azur:

Azur 651A Integrated amplifier (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=893&Title=Azur%20651A%20Integrated%20Amplifier)

Has a DAC and an MP3 player port on the front.

Now I'm thinking about logistics of the room. I'm realizing now that since I'll be stationing my desk/computer on the opposite side of the room from the preamp/amp/speakers, it would be awkward to string a USB cable from the computer to the amp across the whole room when I want to play my digital music from my computer... Anyone else hit the same kinds of problems?

Though, I'm buying this system for my vinyl and not necessarily for the ability to play digital music, so it's kind of a moot point...

-m

Enochrome
12-26-2011, 02:05 PM
Maybe:

1. Integrated Amp or Power Amp (can be controlled by DAC-11)
2. Grant Fidelity DAC-11 or DacMagic
3. Clearaudio Nano, Musical Surrounding Phenomena, or Phono Box Se 2, Cambridge 640p

and you still might have money left over if $1500 is your budget...can you say speakers because from what I looked up your speakers are active only and so all this amp choosing won't matter unless you use it as just a preamp.

You need to decide whether you want to build your system around your speakers or vice versa.

Maybe the most rational approach if you like your speakers for the time being is to go with seperates.
Buy a good preamp and great phono stage, and you are still way south of a thousand. After awhile you decide to get new speakers you will have to buy the power amp for them and that can be tubed or solid state.

Let me know if I am wrong about your speakers, but if I am right, no need to discuss integrateds or the like. I would not personally buy an integrated as a preamp unless you are sold on the power amp it has as well, so you can just get new speakers in the future.

mlenda
12-26-2011, 02:54 PM
Maybe:

1. Integrated Amp or Power Amp (can be controlled by DAC-11)
2. Grant Fidelity DAC-11 or DacMagic
3. Clearaudio Nano, Musical Surrounding Phenomena, or Phono Box Se 2, Cambridge 640p

and you still might have money left over if $1500 is your budget...can you say speakers because from what I looked up your speakers are active only and so all this amp choosing won't matter unless you use it as just a preamp.

You need to decide whether you want to build your system around your speakers or vice versa.

Maybe the most rational approach if you like your speakers for the time being is to go with seperates.
Buy a good preamp and great phono stage, and you are still way south of a thousand. After awhile you decide to get new speakers you will have to buy the power amp for them and that can be tubed or solid state.

Let me know if I am wrong about your speakers, but if I am right, no need to discuss integrateds or the like. I would not personally buy an integrated as a preamp unless you are sold on the power amp it has as well, so you can just get new speakers in the future.

I actually don't plan on using my Behringers. I have been eyeballing Magnepan MMGs all day -- some great reviews for them, and they're not bank-breakers.

Looking at the Nova, its manual says it can drive a pair of speakers between 4 Ohms and 8 Ohms -- so is that total or per speaker? The MMGs, for example, are 4 Ohms each, so their total resistance is lower than 4 Ohms. Looking at the Azur, it can only drive 8 Ohm loads, so the MMGs wouldn't match it.

My plan:
1) Select separate (tube!) phono preamp stage -- either the Bellari or the Pro-Ject Tube Box II (maybe the SE)
2) Select pair of speakers -- either the Magnepans or a nice bookshelf pair on stands
3) Select an amp that can drive the speakers; hopefully it has a DAC, too, but no big deal if it doesn't.

Now the amp seems to be the lowest driver in my aural hunt. For my situation, picking the amp seems to be an exercise in finding one to drive the speakers properly.

Yeah? :biggrin5:

-m

blackraven
12-26-2011, 03:36 PM
If you are even thinking about a pair of Magnepans you should be considering a better amp than the Cambridge Audio 651A. I would not go with an amp less than 125wpc of high current power that can deliver at least 200wpc at 4ohms.

This Class D Audio amp is a real bargain and delivers 125wpc at 8ohms and 250wpc at 4 ohms. It compares to amps in the $1500-$2000 range. It is very dynamic and would be a great match with a Grant Fidelity DAC-11 Preamp/DAC and a Bellari tube phono preamp. You could get all three for under $1100 or upgrade the phono preamp to the Pro-Ject Tube Box IIse and be around your $1500 mark. It would be a killer system.

Class D Audio SDS-254 Complete amp - Complete Amplifiers - PRODUCTS (http://classdaudio.com/products/complete-amplifiers-1/sds-254-complete-amp.html)

Here it is in kit form with its listed specs-

Class D Audio SDS-254 Kit - Class D Audio Kits - PRODUCTS (http://classdaudio.com/products/class-d-audio-kits/sds-254-kit.html)

One of our forum members bought the SDS-254 kit and really likes it. It replaced his Monarchy Amps. PM Feanor and get his opinion on it.

These amps have a tube like quality to the sound. They are very dynamic with great air and transparency. Bass is deep, powerful an well controlled.

I recently bought the cheaper CDA-254 which is a great amp. I just paired it with the bargain of the century DAC-11, and my Magnepan MMG's. The spacing between instruments with this combo you just can't get without spending about $2k more.

You can read about user experiences here-

$175 Class D amp--120 wpc (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.0)

And here is my recent review of the DAC-11 with a Class D amp and the MMG's-

http://forums.audioreview.com/amps-preamps/dac-11-its-here-37584.html

mlenda
12-27-2011, 07:31 AM
If you are even thinking about a pair of Magnepans you should be considering a better amp than the Cambridge Audio 651A. I would not go with an amp less than 125wpc of high current power that can deliver at least 200wpc at 4ohms.

This Class D Audio amp is a real bargain and delivers 125wpc at 8ohms and 250wpc at 4 ohms. It compares to amps in the $1500-$2000 range. It is very dynamic and would be a great match with a Grant Fidelity DAC-11 Preamp/DAC and a Bellari tube phono preamp. You could get all three for under $1100 or upgrade the phono preamp to the Pro-Ject Tube Box IIse and be around your $1500 mark. It would be a killer system.

Class D Audio SDS-254 Complete amp - Complete Amplifiers - PRODUCTS (http://classdaudio.com/products/complete-amplifiers-1/sds-254-complete-amp.html)

Here it is in kit form with its listed specs-

Class D Audio SDS-254 Kit - Class D Audio Kits - PRODUCTS (http://classdaudio.com/products/class-d-audio-kits/sds-254-kit.html)

One of our forum members bought the SDS-254 kit and really likes it. It replaced his Monarchy Amps. PM Feanor and get his opinion on it.

These amps have a tube like quality to the sound. They are very dynamic with great air and transparency. Bass is deep, powerful an well controlled.

I recently bought the cheaper CDA-254 which is a great amp. I just paired it with the bargain of the century DAC-11, and my Magnepan MMG's. The spacing between instruments with this combo you just can't get without spending about $2k more.

You can read about user experiences here-

$175 Class D amp--120 wpc (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.0)

And here is my recent review of the DAC-11 with a Class D amp and the MMG's-

http://forums.audioreview.com/amps-preamps/dac-11-its-here-37584.html

I like the concept -- bargain but high-performing amp and DAC paired with a quality phono preamp. And I'm now finding the same thing over and over about the MMGs: drive them with lots of power! :3:

I can't find any good rearside screenshots of the Class D Amp -- I'm not exactly sure how I'd hook all my goodies together, how many inputs the amp has, etc. Looks like the DAC would be my volume control?

Thanks!

-m

JoeE SP9
12-27-2011, 09:09 AM
The ClassD amp is just a power amplifier. It has inputs to drive a power amp. The variable output from the DAC11 would be connected to the ClassD's inputs. All switching and volume woulld be controlled by the DAC11.

blackraven
12-27-2011, 09:11 AM
The Class D Amp is not an integrated amp and has only one set of inputs as most power amps have (unless it has XLR inputs as well). It is the Preamp that has multiple inputs such as the DAC-11 which is a Preamp and DAC all in one. However, you can have a Class D power amp custom made such as this example showing the rear panel and insides, you will have to scroll down the page in the link-

$175 Class D amp--120 wpc (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?
topic=76400.2940)

The DAC-11 has multiple inputs, 2 analog, 1 digital coax, 1 digital optical and 1 USB. And it has multiple out puts-Tube Out, Line out, DAC out.

Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 D/A Converter (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html)


By the way, then MMG's not only like high power but they like high current power. Some people may argue this point but in my experience with my MMG's and QR1.6's, higher current seems to make the sound more dynamic with more depth and better sounding at low volumes as well. It may just be a function of having a better amp rather than current but I believe that many Magnepan owners will agree with me.

mlenda
12-27-2011, 09:26 AM
The ClassD amp is just a power amplifier. It has inputs to drive a power amp. The variable output from the DAC11 would be connected to the ClassD's inputs. All switching and volume woulld be controlled by the DAC11.Just what I thought. Would I use the "Tube Out" or the "Line Out" output from the DAC-11?

(silly questions...)



By the way, then MMG's not only like high power but they like high current power. Some people may argue this point but in my experience with my MMG's and QR1.6's, higher current seems to make the sound more dynamic with more depth and better sounding at low volumes as well. It may just be a function of having a better amp rather than current but I believe that many Magnepan owners will agree with me.

Noted, thanks!

-m

blackraven
12-27-2011, 09:46 AM
You can use either output but the tube out is where this unit really shines. You can use the tube out for the preamp out to the power amp or for just a DAC out through the tube stage to a separate preamp.. I think that you will really like the sound of this preamp paired with the digital amp and a tube phono preamp. The nice thing about the DAC-11 is that you have a Preamp tube out, solid state out and solid state and tube output for the DAC.

The nice thing about the Class D amp and DAC-11 is that it its a lot of bang for the buck and you could spend hundreds more if not a thousand more trying to get the same sound. Pair these with the MMG's and a nice sub (if you want more bass, but with the Class D amp you will be surprised at the nice deep punchy bass it puts out) and you will have quite the system.

Let us know what you decide to do. It is always nice to get some one's opinion whether good or bad.

mlenda
12-27-2011, 10:12 AM
You can use either output but the tube out is where this unit really shines. You can use the tube out for the preamp out to the power amp or for just a DAC out through the tube stage to a separate preamp.. I think that you will really like the sound of this preamp paired with the digital amp and a tube phono preamp. The nice thing about the DAC-11 is that you have a Preamp tube out, solid state out and solid state and tube output for the DAC.

The nice thing about the Class D amp and DAC-11 is that it its a lot of bang for the buck and you could spend hundreds more if not a thousand more trying to get the same sound. Pair these with the MMG's and a nice sub (if you want more bass, but with the Class D amp you will be surprised at the nice deep punchy bass it puts out) and you will have quite the system.

Let us know what you decide to do. It is always nice to get some one's opinion whether good or bad.

I get the same feeling. Bang for the buck.

I'm thinking the the wiring for everything would be:

Turntable Phono Out ==> Tube Phono Preamp In ==> Tube Phono Preamp Out ==> DAC In ==> DAC Tube Out ==> Power Amp In

Next question is, what is the DAC doing to the signal coming from the TT phono preamp? Is it just passing it directly to through to the power amp? Of course, the volume and switching are controlled by the DAC, but other than that?

What I like about this setup is that all I need to do is turn the selector wheel from Line A (or B) to USB (or optical), and they're both using the Tube Out going to the power amp.

(... right?)

-m

blackraven
12-27-2011, 10:27 AM
You don't use the DAC for the phono which is analog, its only for the Digital out from a CD Player or DVD player bypassing the internal DAC in the players. You will run the turntable to the Phono Preamp to the Analog input of the Preamp/DAC-11 and then out the tube output to the power amp (or the solid state out if you chose to bypass the tube if you so desire). You will hook up your CD players digital out to the digital input of the DAC-11. The DAC-11 has a selector switch so that you can switch between different inputs (SOURCES-like turntable, CD player, tuner, computer, etc.). A TurnTable does not use a DAC ( converts a digital signal to an analog signal) as it puts out an analog signal that must be amplified by a phono preamp.

mlenda
12-27-2011, 02:53 PM
You don't use the DAC for the phono which is analog, its only for the Digital out from a CD Player or DVD player bypassing the internal DAC in the players. You will run the turntable to the Phono Preamp to the Analog input of the Preamp/DAC-11 and then out the tube output to the power amp (or the solid state out if you chose to bypass the tube if you so desire). You will hook up your CD players digital out to the digital input of the DAC-11. The DAC-11 has a selector switch so that you can switch between different inputs (SOURCES-like turntable, CD player, tuner, computer, etc.). A TurnTable does not use a DAC ( converts a digital signal to an analog signal) as it puts out an analog signal that must be amplified by a phono preamp.

I must have misspoken (.. typed) -- you just said what I meant to say!

-m

Enochrome
12-27-2011, 04:59 PM
Blackraven,

I emailed Ian at GF and he confirmed that the preamp is actually passive, in that it is just a volume attentuator. Have you noticed a low noise floor cause of this in the bypass tube mode? or even the tube output?

blackraven
12-27-2011, 10:54 PM
Blackraven,

I emailed Ian at GF and he confirmed that the preamp is actually passive, in that it is just a volume attentuator. Have you noticed a low noise floor cause of this in the bypass tube mode? or even the tube output?

No I have not.

Enochrome
12-28-2011, 08:46 AM
So are you saying that the background isn't very black, i.e. has some noise to it? Possibly it is the tube, or what is to be expected. My Jolida 502a is not dead silent because of the tube output always gives off noise.

blackraven
12-28-2011, 10:03 AM
So are you saying that the background isn't very black, i.e. has some noise to it? Possibly it is the tube, or what is to be expected. My Jolida 502a is not dead silent because of the tube output always gives off noise.

I am sorry, I meant to say that it is dead quite. There is no noise that I can hear and the MMG's are very revealing if there is any noise present. (I was tired and had too much beer when I gave my original reply).

Enochrome
12-29-2011, 12:03 PM
I am sorry, I meant to say that it is dead quite. There is no noise that I can hear and the MMG's are very revealing if there is any noise present. (I was tired and had too much beer when I gave my original reply).

Ha! :lol:

No sweat. I can understand that and thanks for giving me insight into this product.

eisforelectronic
12-29-2011, 10:13 PM
I highly recommend the Rega Brio-R integrated amp. It also has a built in phono-preamp. I also own a Peachtree iNova which has pretty much become an iDac since the Rega sounds much better.

mlenda
01-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Hey folks, so I've got an update...

Stopped by GNP Audio today and got some great help. I told them my situation and they arrived at a nice conclusion: The Bellari VP130 will definitely get the job, and then some. No need to go up to the Pro-Ject Tube Box unless I upgrade my TT, which I see no need for at the moment. They had a broken-in Bellari on demo and even let you take it home overnight! You pay them, then they refund you the next day. I will be doing this once I've put the other pieces together...

Now the story has become about two things: Speakers (which should go into a discussion in the Speakers forum, but hey...) and subs. When I got back from vacation and measured my room at my house, I tried coming up with a notional speaker placement and geometric layout. Nothing worked. My room is big, but not quite big enough for those Maggies. Well, then I got word that my roommate got picked up by a company in Denver and he's moving out in a week. He's got the big master bedroom -- and I do mean BIG. For extra rent, of course, I'm going to take that room. It affords me this gigantic soundstage that would be excellent for Maggies. In fact, I can tailor the whole room to the speaker setup, rather than the other way around! Awesome. Couldn't have worked out better.

So I headed down to a place in La Habra called Hi5Stereo. They're a small hifi audio store... and a Magnepan dealer! I wanted to hear those ribbons for myself before pulling the trigger. They didn't have MMGs, but they had the 3.7's, the mini Maggies, and the wall-hanging. They played a few of them for me (through a 200wpc@4ohm amp) and I could definitely tell that I will need a sub. They oomf just wasn't there. I had been suspecting that maybe the "these have no bass" reviews of the Maggies were just audiophiles being picky, but then I heard them for myself and completely agree. Even the 3.7's, running at $2k, were missing some beef. He then turned on a sub, and everything just OPENED UP -- those Maggies are just wide open and beautiful. Sexy as hell.

The salesman asked me what amp/preamp/etc. I had been recommended. I told them: class-D amp with 250wpc @ 4ohms, a DAC (acting also as input switching and volume control), and a Bellari tube phono preamp. They said, "Damn fine. Your system will be gorgeous." This guy in particular was a huge fan of class-D amps, as it turns out. I'm not convinced I should jump to the 3.7's yet; I might do the buy-and-trade-in thing with the MMGs. But that's another thread.

(btw, I'm going to try out the Shure M97xe cart; might also get a Grado Prestige Blue later on.)

Now, back to a relevant matter for this thread: I will indeed be getting a sub. How should I drive it since the class-D amp I'm looking at doesn't seem to provide outputs for more than just two speakers? Again, here's the setup:

TT ==> phono preamp ==> DAC (obviously bypass the DAC; digital music going through here too) ==> Class-D amp

Unless the class-D amp can also power the sub, how/where will the sub get powered?

-m

Enochrome
01-07-2012, 10:02 PM
Could I recommend that you bypass the Sure and Grado and get a AT440MLA. Some say it is bright but the Bellari will negate that. What it can do is track and pull detail like a high end cart. Also, it has bass slam, which = awesome. It is MM so it will match the Bellari well.

You'll need a preout on the Class D integrated or a preamp with two output rca's. You'll most likely need an active sub that you can set the crossover frequency at most likely 80hz. That way any low signals will go through the sub and all the midrange and high frequencies ( above 80hz) will be handle by the Maggies, which is what they are best at.

If I was in your position I would choose a DAC that has great dynamics, attack and full midrange that way it will balance out the Maggies, but also highlight their fast and limber nature. What DAC is that? I do not know, I am shopping for one myself right now.

Good Luck

mlenda
01-08-2012, 08:08 AM
Could I recommend that you bypass the Sure and Grado and get a AT440MLA. Some say it is bright but the Bellari will negate that. What it can do is track and pull detail like a high end cart. Also, it has bass slam, which = awesome. It is MM so it will match the Bellari well. I'll put that cart on my list. I'll see how the Shure does and return it if it doesn't work. Then I'll probably try the Grado, rinse and repeat, then the AT440MLA. I've heard good things about that cart.


You'll need a preout on the Class D integrated or a preamp with two output rca's. You'll most likely need an active sub that you can set the crossover frequency at most likely 80hz. That way any low signals will go through the sub and all the midrange and high frequencies ( above 80hz) will be handle by the Maggies, which is what they are best at. I'm checking with the Class-D Audio folks to see if the SDS-254 can be equipped with a pre-out or otherwise RCA out in addition to the standard speaker outs. We'll see what they say...


If I was in your position I would choose a DAC that has great dynamics, attack and full midrange that way it will balance out the Maggies, but also highlight their fast and limber nature. What DAC is that? I do not know, I am shopping for one myself right now.

Good Luckblackraven has paired his Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 with Maggies and a Class-D amp, I believe, and says it's a great combo. We'll see how nicely it plays with me.

-m




EDIT:

Silly me, I forgot that the TubeDAC-11 has three outputs: Line Out, Tube Out, and DAC Out. If I use an active sub, I can just connect it to the Line Out and don't need to have a pre-out on the SDS-254 amp. Duhhhhhh. :mad2:

(The Tube Out will be going to amp, and will play the signal from either the TT or the digital source. The DAC out can be use to simply bypass the tube output if I don't want to use it.)

Ajani
01-08-2012, 11:03 AM
I highly recommend the Rega Brio-R integrated amp. It also has a built in phono-preamp. I also own a Peachtree iNova which has pretty much become an iDac since the Rega sounds much better.

The Brio-R really has been generating a lot of buzz... I'd love to audition one...

mlenda
01-28-2012, 09:14 AM
Update!

A few weeks later, the system is coming together. The final setup will be:

Audio-Technica TT (already own -- that's the next upgrade I'll make, maybe next year?)
Shure M97xe Cartridge
Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp
Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 DAC
Class-D Audio SDS-254 Amplifier
Magnepan MMG Speakers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700 Subwoofer

So far, only the cartridge, DAC, and MMGs have made their way here. (Those MMGs, man... so beautiful and elegant!)

I'm swinging by GNP Audio today to pick up the Bellari preamp and ML sub. Hopefully the amp will get here by next week... my ears are itching for vinyl.

Should be a killer system. Will post reviews sometime, once everything is broken in.

-m

LeRoy
01-28-2012, 09:45 AM
Update!

A few weeks later, the system is coming together. The final setup will be:

Audio-Technica TT (already own -- that's the next upgrade I'll make, maybe next year?)
Shure M97xe Cartridge
Bellari VP130 Tube Phono Preamp
Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 DAC
Class-D Audio SDS-254 Amplifier
Magnepan MMG Speakers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700 Subwoofer

So far, only the cartridge, DAC, and MMGs have made their way here. (Those MMGs, man... so beautiful and elegant!)

I'm swinging by GNP Audio today to pick up the Bellari preamp and ML sub. Hopefully the amp will get here by next week... my ears are itching for vinyl.

Should be a killer system. Will post reviews sometime, once everything is broken in.

-m

I will be looking forward to your system review. I am particularly interested in your opinion of the MMG performance.

mlenda
02-07-2012, 06:49 PM
Alright folks, need to do a little situation debugging... getting no sound out of the speakers! :(

Here's the setup:

TT - Audio Technica ATPL120
Phono Preamp - Bellari VP130
DAC - Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
Amplifier - Class-D Audio SDS-254 Complete
Speakers - Magnepan MMGs

[ TT ] ==> RCA ==> [ Phono Preamp ] ==> RCA ==> [ DAC ] ==> RCA ==> Amplifier ==> Speaker Wire ==> Speakers

Things to note:
-On the DAC, there is the option for 3 outputs: "DAC Out", "Line Out" and "Tube Out." The DAC Out line comes out at full volume and must go to a device with volume control (this is per the instruction sheet); the other two's volumes are controlled by the knob on the DAC. I normally would use one of these two (Line or Tube).
-The amplifier has volume knobs on the back above each channel's pair of outputs going to the speakers.
-The output of the amp is banana; the input to the speakers is spade; everything else is RCA

I then double-checked:

1) Power getting to each individual item -- Turntable (on and moving), phono preamp (tube is glowing, light is on), DAC (red light is on), amplifier (glowing blue on the inside and front light is on).

2) Connection strength and polarity of all signal-carrying lines -- black to black and red to red everywhere.

I tested the signal at each junction to see where it stopped:

1) Headphone jack out of the phono preamp: Check. Comes in at good volume and the volume control/mute/rumble filter all work as expected.
==> Signal is getting from the TT to the phono preamp.

2) Headphone jack out of the DAC: Check. Comes in at good volume and the volume control works as expected.
==> Signal is getting from the phono preamp to the DAC.

3) Unplugged headphones and re-tried the speakers: NO GOOD. No volume at all.

A few things to note:
-When turning on the amplifier, I can here a subtle "pop" in the speakers, indicating that power is getting to them.
-Other than this "pop", no noise or static coming out of the speakers.
-Volume on all items turned up to full -- preamp output level, DAC output level, even the individual knobs for each output channel on the on back of the amp -- and still nothing.
-I have tried both outputs on the DAC (Line Out and Tube Out).
-I have tried both inputs on the DAC (Line A and Line B).
-No smoking equipment!

Seems as though I've isolated the problem to the amplifier. It is getting power and all connections are solid. What could I have done wrong? Is there a component mismatch that I don't know about?

AHHHHHHH! HELP! FIRST NIGHT AND IT'S NOT PLAYIN! :19:

-m


EDIT:

Standby... now it's working... :0:

Ajani
02-07-2012, 07:30 PM
Glad to hear it's working. So how does it sound?

Enochrome
02-07-2012, 07:44 PM
The only thing I can think of is that the DAC-11 needs to be set into "preamp mode" so it then can be used as such. I believe you need to connect via either "tube out" or "line out" depending on whether you want the tube sound or not.

Now this is where it gets tricky: I read a forum thread (which I will try to find the link for you)on Audio Karma, where Ian, the owner of Grant Fidelity post answers to questions about his products. One questions was about the DAC-11 as a preamp. Ian said that all the DAC-11 are shipped in "DAC mode" and that you need to specify when you order that you would like it set to "preamp mode". The way to change it is that they're is a little jumper inside that you need to adjust to put it in preamp mode. THIS IS EASILY DOABLE SO YOU ARE ALL GOOD. After that the DAC-11 will run both as a dac and a preamp, and you can adjust the gain of the music with the volume knob of the DAC-11. Most people find a set volume level and leave it there and control loudness through the volume knob on their amp, but either way is fine.

Hold on and let me find the link to the instructions on setting the dac to preamp mode.

Enochrome
02-07-2012, 07:52 PM
Are you using "Dac Out" or "Tube Out" to the class d amp? If you are using dac out then you cannot use the volume knob.

mlenda
02-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Interesting point, Enochrome -- and strange, really, because I didn't ask for it when I ordered it and it's playing just fine without any mods.

EDIT: I am using the Line Out... not the DAC out. Just to be clear.

The question I have on the DAC-11 is this: When I used the Tube Out line, the volume output is much lower -- it's not totally inaudible and doesn't feel like the usual "you're listening to the output of a phono line you idiot" kind of problem. It's definitely much lower than the output on the Line Out line even with everything at full tilt.

There's also a noticeable buzz -- swapping the higher quality cables closer to the preamp side of things got rid of a lot of it. I expect some buzz just because that's how analog systems are. I hope I don't start picking up radio or anything...



So far, it sounds flat -- you know, unused tubes and not-broken-in Maggies. Just as expected. Gotta give it a few dozen hours and it will warm up. Not overly obnoxious in the mids and highs -- and no "hissing" on those vocals! Sweet escape from that pain.

The sound is just wide open. Love it. And these Maggies put out wayyyyy more bass than I was expecting! I've got an active sub just in case I really want to roll hard. I'll have to use the other output line on the DAC for this one.


-m

Enochrome
02-07-2012, 08:23 PM
Just read the little "edit" part of your post. Glad that it is working. Please post some impressions of it. There are several of us that are eyeing it.

Was it the dac line out vs. the tube out issue that resolved the problem?

Enochrome
02-07-2012, 08:28 PM
Most likely the buzz is from the tube. If it is a 12ax7, it has more gain than most preamp tubes. If you want you can switch to a better 12ax7 tube or go down to a 12au7 tube that provides less gain. The issue of low volume is a mystery. Sometimes tubes need to warm up. Are you adjusting the volume in your class d as well as the dac?

mlenda
02-07-2012, 09:12 PM
Just read the little "edit" part of your post. Glad that it is working. Please post some impressions of it. There are several of us that are eyeing it.

Was it the dac line out vs. the tube out issue that resolved the problem?No, I was always using the Tube Out or the Line Out, intentionally avoiding the DAC Out per the instructions that came with it. I don't know what I changed -- I unplugged it all, grabbed a beer, came back, replugged it all in, and suddenly it worked.

User error, I guess.



Most likely the buzz is from the tube. If it is a 12ax7, it has more gain than most preamp tubes. If you want you can switch to a better 12ax7 tube or go down to a 12au7 tube that provides less gain. The issue of low volume is a mystery. Sometimes tubes need to warm up. Are you adjusting the volume in your class d as well as the dac?

Yeah, everything was at full tilt when I used the Tube Out line. The preamp volume, the DAC volume, the class-d volume... everything.

Hmm..

-m

blackraven
02-07-2012, 09:28 PM
First off, check to see that the DAC-11 is set to 110/120V and not 220v. Second, you should not be using the DAC out to the amp. Use the Tube out to the amp or the SS out to the amp. The phono preamp should input to one of the 2 analog inputs not the DAC input. Also check to see that the Bellari is set to MM and not MC catridge if it has MC capabiltity. In addition, you should not get any hum form the tubes. The DAC-11 is dead quiet (at least mine is and the one that a good friend of mine recently bought) The DAC-11 does cause a small pop when you turn it on. Alway turn on your preamp/dac first and your amp last. When turning off the equipment, always turn off the amp first!

One last thing, make sure that your TT and phono preamp are properly grounded.

If you are still having problems then a piece of gear in the chain is broken.

One last comment. If you find the combo of the MMG's, DAC-11 and Class D amp slightly bright after burn in, then consider using th 1ohm tweeter resistors that Magnepan supplies with the MMG's for such problem. If it attentuates the tweeters too much for your liking you can buy lower ohm resistors for about $1 each. Let me know and I will send you the link.

mlenda
02-07-2012, 09:38 PM
First off, check to see that the DAC-11 is set to 110/120V and not 220v. Second, you should not be using the DAC out to the amp. Use the Tube out to the amp or the SS out to the amp. The phono preamp should input to one of the 2 analog inputs not the DAC input. Also check to see that the Bellari is set to MM and not MC catridge if it has MC capability.Check on all those! ;)


In addition, you should not get any hum form the tubes. The DAC-11 is dead quiet (at least mine is and the one that a good friend of mine recently bought)I'm almost positive it's the TT. It's the lowest quality piece in the chain and is the next thing to get replaced.

I'll have to check if the TT is really the source -- turn it off and leave everything else on? I certainly hope nothing else is broken. Just cracked the $3k mark for everything... haha.


One last comment. If you find the combo of the MMG's, DAC-11 and Class D amp slightly bright after burn in, then consider using th 1ohm tweeter resistors that Magnepan supplies with the MMG's for such problem. If it attentuates the tweeters too much for your liking you can buy lower ohm resistors for about $1 each. Let me know and I will send you the link.I'll see after burn-in. My listening area doesn't tend to accentuate brightness.

-m

blackraven
02-07-2012, 09:44 PM
First off, check to see that the DAC-11 is set to 110/120V and not 220v. Second, you should not be using the DAC out to the amp. Use the Tube out to the amp or the SS out to the amp. The phono preamp should input to one of the 2 analog inputs not the DAC input. Also check to see that the Bellari is set to MM and not MC catridge if it has MC capabiltity. In addition, you should not get any hum form the tubes. The DAC-11 is dead quiet (at least mine is and the one that a good friend of mine recently bought) The DAC-11 does cause a small pop when you turn it on. Alway turn on your preamp/dac first and your amp last. When turning off the equipment, always turn off the amp first!

One last thing, make sure that your TT and phono preamp are properly grounded.

If you are still having problems then a piece of gear in the chain is broken.

One last comment. If you find the combo of the MMG's, DAC-11 and Class D amp slightly bright after burn in, then consider using th 1ohm tweeter resistors that Magnepan supplies with the MMG's for such problem. If it attentuates the tweeters too much for your liking you can buy lower ohm resistors for about $1 each. Let me know and I will send you the link.


Sorry, I did not see that you got things working. Seems like you are enjoying the sound. You put together a really nice system on a budget. The MMG's really sing when you put them with good gear and place them properly. Mine are pushed out to about 2 feet from the corners of the room and they pump out much deeper bass than the rated 50hz. Once you upgrade your TT and cartridge you will notice and even bigger improvement. Eventually the Bellari may hold your system back though.

Enjoy the music!

Larry

mlenda
02-07-2012, 09:51 PM
Sorry, I did not see that you got things working. Seems like you are enjoying the sound. You put together a really nice system on a budget. The MMG's really sing when you put them with good gear and place them properly. Mine are pushed out to about 2 feet from the corners of the room and they pump out much deeper bass than the rated 50hz. Once you upgrade your TT and cartridge you will notice and even bigger improvement. Eventually the Bellari may hold your system back though.

Enjoy the music!

LarryExactly what the guys at the store said.

Ah! Killed a good portion of the remaining buzz by... whaddya know... taking the damned preamp off of the top of the amp. I placed it there only preliminarily and never meant to leave it there, then forgot about it. I lifted it up and could hear the noise go up and down as I moved it closer and further away from the amp. Duhhhh.

Moved it to a different shelf. Thank god for cable length.

-m

blackraven
02-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Exactly what the guys at the store said.

Ah! Killed a good portion of the remaining buzz by... whaddya know... taking the damned preamp off of the top of the amp. I placed it there only preliminarily and never meant to leave it there, then forgot about it. I lifted it up and could hear the noise go up and down as I moved it closer and further away from the amp. Duhhhh.

Moved it to a different shelf. Thank god for cable length.

-m

I should have mentioned that the Class D amps can give off a fair amount of RFI. The CDA that I bought used is in a wooden box and I plan to put it in shielded aluminum chassi. I would have thought that buying a new ready made unit from Class D audio would have proper shielding. I had to separate my amp tuner from each other.

mlenda
02-09-2012, 05:47 PM
I'm still frustrated by this low output level on the Tube Out line on the DAC.

I'll be playing records through it all night to see if it irons itself out.

-m


EDIT:

Ok, so, another question while I wait for the Grant Fidelity (errr, audio karma.org) moderators give me my account so I can ask them there...

Got myself a subwoofer to bolster the Maggies. It is active -- has its own volume control and low-pass cutoff control. Can be either LFE or L/R inputs, and has phase setting option (0/90/180). What I want: vinyl to both the speakers as well as sub via the TubeDAC-11.

Since the class-D amp only has outputs to the speakers, it's not driving or feeding into (via a pre-out) the subwoofer.

I found that if I go from Line Out to the sub and Tube Out to the amp, this will play both signals just fine -- however with the aforementioned problem that the Tube Out is very weak (for whatever reason). If I instead switch -- Line Out to the amp and Tube Out to the sub -- nothing comes from the sub (probably again because the Tube Out seems to be very weak).

I haven't tried using the DAC Out line, which puts out the signal at full volume and would be ideal for the sub since it has its own volume control. Of course, there's nothing coming from the DAC inside anyways because my input (TT/phono preamp) is analog. So, moot point.

blackraven
02-09-2012, 08:50 PM
I'm not sure why the tube out is weak. You might consider sending the DAC-11 back for a replacement.

mlenda
02-10-2012, 02:50 PM
Bah.

Just went to the audiokarma forums to ask the same question. Hopefully a GF rep will respond soon -- they seem to respond there quite quickly.

-m


EDIT:

And whaddya know! I double-whammied them with a post at audiokarma and an email to GF customer service through their website. Ian from GF replied to both the post and the email within about 5 minutes.

His first idea was that the tube was unseated. I verified there was no tube lighting up the guts, so per his advice I took the lid off to expect. Sure enough, the tube was unseated. The pins were in their sockets but not even close to all the way in. Happens during shipping. No other apparent damage inside. Took it out, examined it, re-seated it firmly, and put the lid back on.

Now it's playing at the same levels as the Line Out.

Now that's what I call customer service.

-m

blackraven
02-10-2012, 05:47 PM
Glad to hear that you got the problem fixed.

How are things sounding?

How do you like the Martin Logan sub? I am looking at buying a used older ML Dynamo or Abyss sub.

mlenda
02-10-2012, 06:08 PM
Glad to hear that you got the problem fixed.

How are things sounding?

How do you like the Martin Logan sub? I am looking at buying a used older ML Dynamo or Abyss sub.

So far, still a little flat and dry. Gotta break through that Maggie ceiling.

I was able to notice a difference when I started using the Tube Out on the TubeDAC. It was a little warmer, but the starkest contrast is something I haven't been able to put my finger on yet... looking for a thesaurus here.

I feel that I'm now breaking into the limits of my turntable. It can't quite keep up with the extreme ends of the high spectrum -- still a little hiss. Sometimes the record is to blame, but there's still a consistent hiss on the real high stuff from time to time.

Biggest difference? Sound stage. After I put a new record on and walk the 12 or so feet back around to my desk, where I listen, right when I sit in my chair, I hit that sweet spot and it sounds like it's coming from all directions. You can literally reach out and touch the musician, it feels so everywhere and so close at the same time.

ONce the Maggies warm up and the tubes in the Bellari and TubeDAC get some burn-in, it'll be gorgeous. Next up: replace that TT!

So far I've demoed a lot of vinyl and have made used of the optical in on the TubeDAC. I played a little (mp3) of Andy Mckee, an acoustic guitarist -- wow! Then some Jonny Lang and Stevie Ray Vaughan -- wow!

The ML Dynamo is exactly what the guy at GNP Audio said: Fast. I remember my old amp with my old surround system, which was muddy and slow to respond. I'm surprised I can actually hear the difference. The Dynamo really pops and picks up everything extremely quickly. It's placement is not the best quite yet and it sounds a little overwhelming even at low volumes and a low cutoff frequency.

I'm still figuring out where to put it and what to set the phase at.

-m

blackraven
02-11-2012, 04:48 AM
I would set the sub at 50hz and the volume should be turned down till you can barely tell it is there and then turn it down just a little more. The sub should disappear. People run into problems with them because they have them too loud.

lindalou
03-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Hi. First, I can't figure out how to ask an original question, so I am posting here. Can someone tell me how to make an original post?

My tuner/receiver is dying because I hooked my Zune up to it. The zune required too much power, and my receiver is nearly dead.

So, I am looking to upgrade, preferably by buying used equipment. I don't know much about stereo equipment, but I have an audiophile's ear, so would appreciate good guidance. My budget is extremely low. I am looking on ebay and craigslist.

I heard a new, $4000 Marantz amp and was completely blown away. I would like to approach that as much as possible. (It was the amp, not the speakers--heard an onkyo on same speakers, and it was a big "So what.") So, I keep looking toward Marantz. I like warm sound, bass, cannot stand speakers that are in the high range, which most seem to be. I listen mostly to classical music.

If I buy a used amp, does it need to be refurbished in any way? Do they wear out? How much does refurbishing cost? What about Marantz PM-7000 . I do not have home theater.

Given the zune problem, should I buy a pre-amp? Also, will I be able to hook my zune up to older amps? Will the zune wear out a pre-amp, too?

Finally, I would sincerely appreciate recommmendations on brands and models.

If someone could post this as a separate post, I would appreciate that, too.
Thank you.

ForeverAutumn
03-07-2012, 07:45 PM
In order to reduce spam, we require a new member to post 5 times before starting a thread. Since you've now made your fifth post, you should be able to start a new thread of you own.

And welcome to Audio Review! :)

blackraven
03-07-2012, 08:01 PM
Hi. First, I can't figure out how to ask an original question, so I am posting here. Can someone tell me how to make an original post?

My tuner/receiver is dying because I hooked my Zune up to it. The zune required too much power, and my receiver is nearly dead.

So, I am looking to upgrade, preferably by buying used equipment. I don't know much about stereo equipment, but I have an audiophile's ear, so would appreciate good guidance. My budget is extremely low. I am looking on ebay and craigslist.

I heard a new, $4000 Marantz amp and was completely blown away. I would like to approach that as much as possible. (It was the amp, not the speakers--heard an onkyo on same speakers, and it was a big "So what.") So, I keep looking toward Marantz. I like warm sound, bass, cannot stand speakers that are in the high range, which most seem to be. I listen mostly to classical music.

If I buy a used amp, does it need to be refurbished in any way? Do they wear out? How much does refurbishing cost? What about Marantz PM-7000 . I do not have home theater.

Given the zune problem, should I buy a pre-amp? Also, will I be able to hook my zune up to older amps? Will the zune wear out a pre-amp, too?

Finally, I would sincerely appreciate recommmendations on brands and models.

If someone could post this as a separate post, I would appreciate that, too.
Thank you.

If you like a warm sound and the sound of Marantz then I would stick with Marantz. I like the Marantz sound too. Even their CD players have the warm Marantz sound. I would also give a listen to NAD as well.

lindalou
03-08-2012, 08:45 AM
I have an opportunity to buy one of the following: a Marantz SR7400 for $275 (or less, if I can talk him down) or a Creek CAS 4140 for $150 from an audio store. The guy at the audio store says Marantz isn't what they used to be. I don't have home theater, am buying this to listen to classical music and the radio (with other genres thrown into the mix, of course). What would be your recommendation?

mostafa2
03-11-2012, 05:51 AM
Pioneer PD-D6MK2-K Class D AMP 700$

blackraven
03-11-2012, 09:55 AM
If you are handy and could do some basic wiring you could get one of these kits that would smoke the amps that you are looking at but you will need a preamp-

Class D Audio Build Your Own Class D Audio CDA Series Amplifier - Class D Amp Kits - Complete Amplifiers (http://classdaudio.com/complete-amplifiers/amplifier-kits/build-your-own-cda-class-d-audioaamplifier.html)