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frenchmon
10-01-2011, 11:17 AM
well last night I went to Peabodys to take a listen to the JBL 1400 Arreys in his system. Well they are a no go and I agree with Peabody....there is something missing. For 11K they where not totally satisfying... More about that later....but now I just got a call from Peabody...Looks like I may be going back over there...we are going to do a Canton and Revel speaker shoot out! Oh boy!!!! The Canton Ergo and Revel Performa F52

Looks like this new Dealer is really wanting to sell Peabody some speakers.....Oh, and he has the Zu sold!

Feanor
10-01-2011, 12:03 PM
well last night I went to Peabodys to take a listen to the JBL 1400 Arreys in his system. Well they are a no go and I agree with Peabody....there is something missing. For 11K they where not totally satisfying... More about that later....but now I just got a call from Peabody...Looks like I may be going back over there...we are going to do a Canton and Revel speaker shoot out! Oh boy!!!! The Canton Ergo and Revel Performa F52

Looks like this new Dealer is really wanting to sell Peabody some speakers.....Oh, and he has the Zu sold!
My brothers, you really need to listen to some planars. :cool:

Jack in Wilmington
10-01-2011, 03:00 PM
Hey Frenchie, that doesn't sound like a fair fight. The Performa F52 is more in line with the Canton Vento series I'd say. I had a feeling the JBL's would be a no go. Just a feeling.

Ajani
10-01-2011, 03:32 PM
I'll be interested to hear if the Performa F52 changes his mind about Revel... I'll also be eager to hear your thoughts on the Revel vs Canton...

frenchmon
10-01-2011, 05:47 PM
Well guys its a no go for today...more like tomorrow.. And yeah Jack. The Ergos are like 3-4K, The Ventos 5K and the Revels are like 6.5K I believe. But those Cantons are very hard to beat in my opinion. You have to hear that tweeter....they are unbelievable. Even though Peabody and I heard the Canton Ergos and the Vento's the Ergos give the Ventos a run for its money and both Ergos and Vento beat the 1400 Arreys that go for 11.5K. in the upper ranges and pretty much matched it in its lower rages. The Arreys dont image really good with voices in my opinion, and made Peabodys tubes sound more like SS. I think they are better for classic rock but don't do as well with other types of music. But the do have a very good bass response but the upper response was lacking and kinda polite.

The dealer was also talking about bringing over some smaller Canton Reference as well....

The Reference - Handmade by CANTON | Reference 1.2 DC (http://reference.canton.de/en/products/reference-1.2-dc.htm)

I think it was the Canton Reference 5.2 DC.....that will be a treat if he does, He has to locate them so they may come a little later.... Cantons are truly three dimensional without being boring at all. Last time I heard the Revels that was about 5 years ago in Carolina. I do rebember a positive listening session with them.

Yeah Ajani...I cant wait....this will be fun.

frenchmon
10-02-2011, 05:10 PM
Fellas....we had the shoot out...and the Revel F52 just kicked the Canton Ergos azz! To be fair the Ergos 902 DC where 6 years old and retailed for $2.4k and the Revel F52 are 5 years old and retailed for 6.5k

The Ergos where ear bleeders when we played a few tunes from Chicago....the horns from the band where ready to run me out of the room. While the 902's had a louder presentation than the Revel, they where more transparent and I thought revealed voices better and had a deeper bass than the Revels. That DC technology they do with the bass is wonderful. No one reveals more in the inner detail in the low to mid of the high frequencies than Canton, but the tweeters where just killing me. My Canton bookshelves dont do that at all.... But besides the defects in the Ergos....it was very much obvious they where just out class....thus the price. I would have loved to hear the Ventos which are more in the Revels price range.

The Revels just did every think perfect. Now let me say this one thing before I move on. In all my years of listening to speakers, and I have heard many big time speakers even the likes of Wilson and Ariel......I dont care who the name is on the front of the speaker or if you have a DIY speakers.....I have never heard a perfect speaker. And that goes for the Revel as well. The thing they lacked in my opinion was the strength of the Ergo's...I thought the inner detail of the higher frequencies where not as pronounced as I would have liked, and voices where not as transparent. But having said that..they where in no way bad either. Now I had heard these Revel speakers about 5-6 years ago when I lived in the audiophile rich city of Raleigh Durham North Carolina. When the dealer said he would bring a pair to Peabodys for a shoot out, I knew I had a previous positive listening session with them, but could not remember what they had sounded like.

But now......I can tell you this.....they are a perfect match with the Conrad Johnson gear. I have never heard the Conrad Johnson sound so good in my life. I can happily report to all those who wondered about whats going on with Peabody and all his speaker changes lately. He has had some bad mis-matches with the Dyns, which gave his system a sorta dark cloud in sound...like there was a thick veil over the sound and gave it a supper warm sound...or all the Klipsch speakers that never sounded rightly matched with no bass response..or the Zu that...well I dont know what they where doing in that system any ways. And the Arrays that had some things missing in the tweater and beaming with the voices, or the Ergos that where ear bleed and out classed.

The F52s are really audiophile and the CJ seem to know it. They Conrad was like...Hey lets dance to night! There was great synergy and great pace and musicality. They had a 1inch tweeter, a 4 inch mid range speaker and three 6 inch woofers. If any want to know more about the specs, you may find them on line. The speakers look much better in person than on line. Revel in my opinion look kinda hohum, or look like something from outer space. But I have never heard a Revel that I did not like. The F52 bass seems to hit all the lower notes very well. Even better than the Dynaudio Contour t2.5. It was tight with lots of control. It seemed to be very detailed and it had great pace....seemed to just boogie alone in its own world. Even the bass drums had their own space. tom toms had lots thump and snare lots of snap and you could tell that bongos where in the rhythm of the music. When listening to the band Chicago, and the horn section where playing....you could hear the blend of the horns in perfect harmony and they seem to have there own space. Instruments where not on top of each other but had their own space with .plenty of air around each instrument. Cymbals also had plenty of space, great hang time with absolutely outstanding decay. Once again, at this price point, this is an outstanding audiophile speakers. One of the strongest points of the speaker was the sense of the very dark or black back ground. This is a thing that is hard to explain but it was very black or dark. While the Ergos where more transparent they did not have as much a dark or black back ground. for me when you have a great dark or black back ground it also makes the sound as if you can hear front to back as well. Some people call it depth. It was like you could see into the sound stage. I must add the Ergos had a larger sound stage, but you did not get a sense of that depth. So as good as these speakers are...I would have loved to see how they would have matched up with a pair of Cantons in the same class. So the Revel F52's go for 6.5K and they boogie, and Peabody as I am very impressed. Looks like his Conrad Johnson may have a new play mate. So will Peabody.

Ajani
10-02-2011, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the update! Your impression of the Revels sounds just like what I'd expect: Revel can certainly be beaten by other speakers in various areas, but the overall package just works... Speaker X might be more detailed and speaker Y goes deeper, but Revels tend to do everything well and just have a nicely balanced sound IMO...

blackraven
10-02-2011, 07:36 PM
You guys need to find a pair of the $5kPSB Synchrony One's to audition or a pair of the $6K Salk HTR-3's which are one of the few speakers that I would consider buying over the Magnepan 3'6's.

New HT3's in crotch mahogany - SOLD (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66016.0)

HT3 - home (http://www.salksound.com/ht3%20-%20home.htm)

frenchmon
10-02-2011, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the update! Your impression of the Revels sounds just like what I'd expect: Revel can certainly be beaten by other speakers in various areas, but the overall package just works... Speaker X might be more detailed and speaker Y goes deeper, but Revels tend to do everything well and just have a nicely balanced sound IMO...

Ajani....I had heard these speakers years ago in Carolina paired with Marantz reference. These are great speakers and sound great. I've also listened to the Concerta line and they too, while being less expensive sound great as well. I think those who spend for speakers in the class of Monitor Audio Silver line or Paradigms Studio line or any speaker in the same price class should at least consider the less expensive Concerta line. But you never hear any body really talk about these speakers.

One thing I failed to mention is that it is very easy for this speaker to disappear. They are very much engaging and just grabs your attention. These are not back ground speakers at all and they wont let you use them as such....they will always give you a great interpretation of your favorite tunes. These speakers will get your attention and just sort take your mind off of anything around you. They will easily de-stress you after a long day of a stressful day at the office.

frenchmon
10-02-2011, 07:39 PM
You guys need to find a pair of the $5kPSB Synchrony One's to audition or a pair of the $6K Salk HTR-3's which are one of the few speakers that I would consider buying over the Magnepan 3'6's.

New HT3's in crotch mahogany - SOLD (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66016.0)

HT3 - home (http://www.salksound.com/ht3%20-%20home.htm)

Whats the return policy of the Salks?

Ajani
10-03-2011, 03:59 AM
Ajani....I had heard these speakers years ago in Carolina paired with Marantz reference. These are great speakers and sound great. I've also listened to the Concerta line and they too, while being less expensive sound great as well. I think those who spend for speakers in the class of Monitor Audio Silver line or Paradigms Studio line or any speaker in the same price class should at least consider the less expensive Concerta line. But you never hear any body really talk about these speakers.

One thing I failed to mention is that it is very easy for this speaker to disappear. They are very much engaging and just grabs your attention. These are not back ground speakers at all and they wont let you use them as such....they will always give you a great interpretation of your favorite tunes. These speakers will get your attention and just sort take your mind off of anything around you. They will easily de-stress you after a long day of a stressful day at the office.


My favourite 'affordable' lines are the Revel Concerta and Monitor Audio Silver... I suspect many persons bypass the Concerta because of size (they are relatively large) and cosmetics (while not ugly, they certainly won't win any style awards); so basically very low WAF...

Ajani
10-03-2011, 11:23 AM
You should probably suggest that Peabody try out the Revels with his Krell, that should produce a very interesting sound as well...

frenchmon
10-03-2011, 01:27 PM
Peabody is going to be the new owner of a set of 52's and the matching center channel and the center channel stand. The Krell has been long gone.

Thinking back....its funny how the Dyns and the Zu made Peabodys system sound thick with this supper warmer sound. The Revels nor the Cantons nor the JBL Arreys gave it that sound. I suspect the Dyns are more colored than I first thought.

Ajani
10-03-2011, 01:42 PM
Peabody is going to be the new owner of a set of 52's and the matching center channel and the center channel stand.

Cool... Nice to see a forum member catch the Revel fever...


The Krell has been long gone.

Hmmm... I thought he had Krell lying around in a 2nd system...


Thinking back....its funny how the Dyns and the Zu made Peabodys system sound thick with this supper warmer sound. The Revels nor the Cantons nor the JBL Arreys gave it that sound. I suspect the Dyns are more colored than I first thought.

Jack in Wilmington
10-03-2011, 05:00 PM
Peabody is going to be the new owner of a set of 52's and the matching center channel and the center channel stand. The Krell has been long gone.

Thinking back....its funny how the Dyns and the Zu made Peabodys system sound thick with this supper warmer sound. The Revels nor the Cantons nor the JBL Arreys gave it that sound. I suspect the Dyns are more colored than I first thought.

Maybe this is what Peabody's system needed. The CJ I suspect is a very warm sounding amp and the Dyns are on the warm side of neutral. Now we'll see how a metal tweeter sounds mated with the CJ. Hopefully this is the right combo for him. I've had speakers with metal tweeters and they always bothered me during extended listening periods. Now I will admit that they were being driven by SS gear.

Frenchie, I've read a lot of reviews on Dynaudio speakers and I can't say that I ever heard the reviewers refer to them as colored. Now most of your reviewers have three or four amps around to try out so they can find a good sonic match. Plus they have the experience of years of doing this kind of stuff and they could tell you that they would never mate the CJ with the Dyns for what ever reason. I hope that Peabody can get online and tell us his feelings and thoughts on this major move in his system.

harley .guy07
10-03-2011, 05:01 PM
I really would not say that the Dynaudio's are colored I think it is a matter that the Revels match the CJ gears sound character better than the Dynaudio's. If it would have been a different front end driving them it might have been a different result. The CJ's sound signature is what it is and I know it is excellent stuff but it also might be tailored to speakers like the Revel better than the Dynaudio. I have heard many systems and sometimes a speaker will work with some gear and sometimes there are better options for that particular equipment. If he was running Krell or something else the outcome might have been different with any given speaker there but in Peabody's case the CJ and Revel were just a better match which is good for him to finally find something that goes with his CJ stuff the way he wants it to.

frenchmon
10-04-2011, 01:57 AM
Jack and Harley...when I say colored...what I mean is warmth. The warmer a speaker is, the more color it can be considered to be. IF a speaker is really ear bleed as the Ergos where its considered bright. At least thats how I understand color and warm. The Dyns added a lot more warmer sound than I first thought.

Poultrygeist
10-04-2011, 03:39 AM
You guys need to cultivate friendships with DIY speaker builders in your area. I bet there's a DIY Audio fest in your area just as there are in many large cities. DIY Atlanta is an epiphany for non-believers.

frenchmon
10-04-2011, 07:04 AM
Maybe this is what Peabody's system needed. The CJ I suspect is a very warm sounding amp and the Dyns are on the warm side of neutral. Now we'll see how a metal tweeter sounds mated with the CJ. Hopefully this is the right combo for him. I've had speakers with metal tweeters and they always bothered me during extended listening periods. Now I will admit that they were being driven by SS gear.

Frenchie, I've read a lot of reviews on Dynaudio speakers and I can't say that I ever heard the reviewers refer to them as colored. Now most of your reviewers have three or four amps around to try out so they can find a good sonic match. Plus they have the experience of years of doing this kind of stuff and they could tell you that they would never mate the CJ with the Dyns for what ever reason. I hope that Peabody can get online and tell us his feelings and thoughts on this major move in his system.

jack that is what got me thinking the Dyns where warmer than I first thought. While my Vincent did bring out the tweeter and mids on the Dyns...it was not as warm but still warm with the Dyns. When I heard the Dyns with the CJ it was really warm or like I say really colored. Now with the CJ gear and the JBL 1400 Arreys the CJ almost sounded like SS gear. Especially with rock music. Now with the Revel 52's the sound is not as warm...infact you still get that tube sound or distortion, but its almost like a SS sound as well with the greater attack... at least to my ears. Its a match made in heaven I would say.

Though I don't think the sound is as forward or lively in the upper ranges like Cantons nor does it disperse sound like Canton, the Revel has a blacker back ground than the Ergos and had depth!
I suspect that any speaker in that price class should give that to you, but I dont remember the 11.5k JBL's giving that to you. Those Revel speakers are really a good speaker. Peabody said he would have loved to listen to the Canton Reference series of speakers, but why bother with having the dealer bring those over seeing he really likes what the Revel and Conrad Johnson pairing is doing...and I agree with him...those Revels are out standing.


I cant wait to go back over before Peabody has to give the demo's back....It may be a while before he gets his new set in. What I heard from the CJ and the Revel together was truly a high end sound that I assume has been lacking in his system from the time he got the CJ gear in place. Peabody really does have bragging rights now....Harley I hope you can come down and take a listen soon. His system in my opinion is off the chain.

When that CT6 first came out it was marketed as giving you the best of both worlds. I thought that was a joke with that preamp. But now that is actually sounding like it, I believe it was due to not having the right speaker. It did not sound like that before...at least to my ears.

Its amazing how the right speaker can take your system to a different level.....My last purchase will have to be some reference speakers as well....system matching is all that important.

frenchmon
10-04-2011, 07:13 AM
You guys need to cultivate friendships with DIY speaker builders in your area. I bet there's a DIY Audio fest in your area just as there are in many large cities. DIY Atlanta is an epiphany for non-believers.

When I first moved to STL at the later part of 2008, I was in a used record store and struck up a conversation with this guy in his early 60's. He was an audiophile. later in the conversation he asked me if I would be interested in coming to an audio meet where the local audiophiles...the "Gateway audio society" bring all their gear and talk audio and listen. I said yes I would love to come. So then he went on talking and started telling me how the majority of these guys bring their DIY speakers and amps...thats all it took to intimidate me. I never made it to that audio meet....I could not build anything but a turkey sandwich.

Tarheel_
10-04-2011, 09:39 AM
Ajani....I heard these speakers years ago in Carolina paired with Marantz reference. These are great speakers and sound great. I've also listened to the Concerta line and they too, while being less expensive sound great as well. I think those who spend for speakers in the class of Monitor Audio Silver line or Paradigms Studio line or any speaker in the same price class should at least consider the less expensive Concerta line. But you never hear any body really talk about these speakers.



Glad to hear another Revel owner will appear on the boards...French, I auditioned the same pair/same source/same place in Raleigh as you did a few years back.
Since that day, I definitely thought the F52 sounded better than the now-older Ultima Line.
Until the new Ultima2 line appeared, the F52 were the best speaker Revel produced. It totally blows away my F30s in almost every category.

I also agree with your Concerta line statement. My co-worker and I demoed a ton of speakers in that price range the Concertas were fantastic and an absolute steal at that price point. He eventually went with a pair of Paradigm Studio 10s because of looks.

No question, the F52 need to be heard by any audiophile. They may not be the perfect speaker, but they are damn close.

The former Raleigh Revel dealer always claimed Theta Dreadnaught amps were a perfect pair for the F52.

harley .guy07
10-04-2011, 12:52 PM
I will want to come up at some point and hear them at Peabody's home. I talked with him through email last night and he said himself that the Revels seemed to have better synergy with his CJ stuff than the Dynaudio's and that it was not that the Dyn's were worse in any way just did not suit his CJ gear as well. He did mention that he wishes he had more power to run the Revels though since they seem to be less efficient than his gear likes for louder passages but overall he is happy. I would bet he is having a harder time running them with all of those drivers and the crossover that must be in them. But they look good though and I will let me be my own opinion when I hear them at some point when I can come up there.

harley .guy07
10-04-2011, 12:56 PM
Let me say that again. I will let my ears be my tester and opinion when I can make it up to Peabody's house at some point. Damn this school stuff is taking all of my brain power and I seem to forget everything else. I think I need a 6 pack of the suds and a day to myself.

frenchmon
10-04-2011, 04:29 PM
he said himself that the Revels seemed to have better synergy with his CJ stuff than the Dynaudio's and that it was not that the Dyn's were worse in any way just did not suit his CJ gear as well.

That makes them worse in my opinion.....they surely where not better...if so Peabody would not have changed. But whatever, I wont go down this road any more.

Ajani
10-04-2011, 05:31 PM
That makes them worse in my opinion.....they surely where not better...if so Peabody would not have changed. But whatever, I wont go down this road any more.

Moving (slowly) from Krell and Dynaudio to Conrad Johnson and Revel should be different... But if it's not better, then that's a hell of a lot of money spent just for 'different'....

frenchmon
10-04-2011, 06:04 PM
Harley I asked Peabody if the Dyns where better...this is what I asked.


Hey man...do you seriously think it was only a synergy problem with the Dyns and the CJ gear? You really think the Revel 52's are not a better speaker than your Dyns?


and he started of his email to me with these words.


No, the Revel are better than my t2.5's in every way I can think of....

Harley you may have miss understood him.

Jack in Wilmington
10-04-2011, 06:09 PM
That makes them worse in my opinion.....they surely where not better...if so Peabody would not have changed. But whatever, I wont go down this road any more.

But remember Frenchie, we can take for example a pair of Canton Reference 3.2 speakers and plug them into 5 different guys systems and they're gonna sound different. It all depends on your associated equipment. That doesn't make them better or worse in my opinion, just not a good match.

Ajani
10-04-2011, 06:51 PM
Harley I asked Peabody if the Dyns where better...this is what I asked.




and he started of his email to me with these words.



Harley you may have miss understood him.

That sounds more like what I'd expect...

I don't expect Mr Peabody to suddenly start bashing Dynaudio and Krell just because he prefers the sound of his new gear, as that would be out of character for him (and arguably hypocritical since he clearly enjoyed both brands for many years)...

However, persons like you and I, who were never Dyn fans, are free to express whatever views we want on Dynaudio...

harley .guy07
10-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Like it is said it is in the mind of the listener. He likes what he has now so he is happy. Let it be and let him enjoy it. I am by no means going to say what is better to him and what is not that is totally up to him. But I will say that just because of this he does not dislike Dynaudio or anything like that. He just found something that matched better with his gear that he has sent a whole lot of money on and if I were where him would do the same thing.

harley .guy07
10-04-2011, 08:11 PM
he said exactly that he thought that the Revel brought to the table what the Dynaudio could not with the equipment he is running. He by no means is not liking Dynaudio products he is just feeling the difference of a speaker that works better with his equipment. People should not be so quick to down other speakers or equipment just because someone finds synergy in their system. In my system and in jacks our Dynaudio's work well and give us what we want, that is because in our systems they have the synergy that they would not have with Mr. Peabody's. Like I said I thought my Dyn's sounded better in my setup than his because his setup was geared toward a different type of speaker. Not worse, Just different.

frenchmon
10-05-2011, 01:59 AM
Ok...I have permission from Peabody to copy and paste what he wrote concerning the Revel/Dyns. I will leave out the parts that dont have to do with the speakers.



No, the Revel are better than my t2.5's in every way I can think of. The t2.5's had a bit more bass energy but at the cost of much low end detail. The Revel does have more drivers and a 3-way compared to a 2-way. ....... I'd have to hear side by side a comparable Dynaudio in price to the Revel but in a shoot out my bet would be on the Revel. I still like Dynaudio better than many brands but I have to admit in my opinion there are speakers that sound better. The F52's are amazing at how much they reveal while remaining nicely balanced doing it.


People comment about metal tweeters but the Revel's are nice, very good decay and not overly bright.

I share his opinion on everything he said about the Revels. I am a Canton speaker fan boy.....But those Revels are right up there on my list with the Cantons top line series of speakers....

When Peabody made the remark about the Revels remaining nicely balanced, seems he is now understanding my complaints to him about his t2.5's being much bigger in the lower ranges than the mids and upper ranges of the speakers....

harley .guy07
10-05-2011, 06:03 AM
Well in my opinion speakers are like cars. Some people are corvette people and some are Porsche people and convincing them otherwise is just a waste of time about as much as this is since me and jack are sold on Dynaudio and you are on the Canton, Revel thing. I am not saying they are bad but I am not a fan of metal tweeters since I have very sensitive high frequency ears that get fatigued rather easily. Another point the Peabody made is that the price point of the two speakers were different with the Revels being way higher giving them an edge. I know he said even if he listened to $7000 Dynaudio's that match the price of the Revels that he would still bet of the Revels which is fine it is his opinion but it is not proven fact since it DID NOT happen that way. So it goes without saying until you get a $7000 dollar pair of Dyn's over there you won't know and that is not counting the fact that the Dyns would have to be powered by a front end with perfect synergy and so would the Revels. To many things to make a blanket statement that Revel is better than Dynaudio period when I have heard people compare the Dynaudio C1 to their big tower speakers and the C1 won the overall sound comparison and they are a standmount speaker. Anyway this argument will probably never end since everyone involved is sold on their opinion so I will leave it alone from this point since I have made my final statements about it.

Hyfi
10-05-2011, 06:10 AM
Well in my opinion speakers are like cars. Some people are corvette people and some are Porsche people and convincing them otherwise is just a waste of time about as much as this is since me and jack are sold on Dynaudio and you are on the Canton, Revel thing. I am not saying they are bad but I am not a fan of metal tweeters since I have very sensitive high frequency ears that get fatigued rather easily. Another point the Peabody made is that the price point of the two speakers were different with the Revels being way higher giving them an edge. I know he said even if he listened to $7000 Dynaudio's that match the price of the Revels that he would still bet of the Revels which is fine it is his opinion but it is not proven fact since it DID NOT happen that way. So it goes without saying until you get a $7000 dollar pair of Dyn's over there you won't know and that is not counting the fact that the Dyns would have to be powered by a front end with perfect synergy and so would the Revels. To many things to make a blanket statement that Revel is better than Dynaudio period when I have heard people compare the Dynaudio C1 to their big tower speakers and the C1 won the overall sound comparison and they are a standmount speaker. Anyway this argument will probably never end since everyone involved is sold on their opinion so I will leave it alone from this point since I have made my final statements about it.

Almost every setup of Dynaudios I have heard they were driven with SS amps and not tubes. My SS amp drives my Danes better than my Hybrid amp.

frenchmon
10-05-2011, 06:27 AM
Harley...I am not making remarks about all Dynaudio speakers...I am not generalizing here. I am speaking of the t2.5's Peabody has or I should say...had! Thats it. I did not mean to offend the Dynaudio owners

Hyfi
10-05-2011, 06:36 AM
Harley...I am not making remarks about all Dynaudio speakers...I am not generalizing here. I am speaking of the t2.5's Peabody has or I should say...had! Thats it. I did not mean to offend the Dynaudio owners

So the bottom line is that Conrad Johnson just does not pair well with Dynaudio speakers. Lots of other gear pair up just fine with them or they would not be among some of the best speakers out there. Also you would be able to find them used all over the place, which is far from the truth. Most Dynaudio owners don't part with them once they are paired with gear that works well with them.

Maybe the focus should be that the CJ is the weak link here and not the Danes in Mr P's system. I'm sure with the wrong amp, he could get the new speakers to sound 'bad' just like the CJ-Dynaudio pairing was not up to snuff.

I also have issues with most metal tweeters. Even though I worked in machine shops for 25 years and have lost a little bit of high frequency hearing, 2 hours of metal tweeters at medium to high volume makes me want to turn it off.

Thats why there is chocolate and vanilla and strawberry and........

Tarheel_
10-05-2011, 07:12 AM
sounds like a lot of crying around here....in his system and listening room Peabody says the Revels are better than the Dynaudio speakers. Period.

As a Revel owner and true fan of their speakers, i can admit there are other brands which sound better. Heck, i just heard a few in the last month or so.

Are you guys so tied to your speakers that you cannot image another speaker sounding superior? Geez...

blackraven
10-05-2011, 08:47 AM
sounds like a lot of crying around here....in his system and listening room Peabody says the Revels are better than the Dynaudio speakers. Period.

As a Revel owner and true fan of their speakers, i can admit there are other brands which sound better. Heck, i just heard a few in the last month or so.

Are you guys so tied to your speakers that you cannot image another speaker sounding superior? Geez...

Well said TH. I think most people have a little bit of this problem-becoming jaded into thinking that your gear or a particular brand or type of speaker is the best. You want to believe that your gear is the best and why not? It is what sounded the best to you when you bought the gear. I think that the problem is that most of us don't have the ability to hear and see what is really out there.

Hyfi
10-05-2011, 09:10 AM
Are you guys so tied to your speakers that you cannot image another speaker sounding superior? Geez...

I'm not. I chose my 82s over all other similar priced speakers I could audition at that time.

When I inherited my Clearfields (early Von Schwiekert), my views changed drastically as to what a good sounding speaker was, or should I say the compromise of lacking deep bass for awesome midrange.

If I had the money to burn, I would most likely get some pair of Von Schwiekerts.

Do I still like my Danes? Sure I do but most of the time the Clearfields are in my main system. Not much sense talking about them tho because nobody ever heard of them and they have not been in existence since the 90s.

Whenever people do get to hear them for the first time, they are amazed as I was. But when I'm in the mood for more bass, I roll the Danes back in for a while. When I want to change the sound completely, I switch my amp back and forth between the Stratos and the Counterpoint. Each amp makes each pair of speakers sound completely different.

No crying here or any ties to any one MFG. I like yourself pointed out the same thing, maybe CJ just doesn't pair well with the Danes in Mr Ps room.

harley .guy07
10-05-2011, 09:20 AM
That was the whole point I was trying to make in the first place. CJ does not go well with DYNAUDIO period. That was it. The rest of the conversation was basically opinion through either research or experience or both. I was not offended at all I was just trying to point out that the combination of the components was the problem and not the components themselves in their own right. I really never thought that tubes should be paired with heavily crossed over dynamic driver speakers like the Dynaudio anyway for the most part do to their sensitivity and need for solid dynamic power to really make them do what they were built to do.

frenchmon
10-05-2011, 10:01 AM
I dont want to get into another argument about Dyns versus Revels. And it is not my intention to offend any body... But I do know that Peabody loves his Dyns...he loves that bass to hit him in the chest. But he happened to hear what other speakers can do with the top end. While not falling out of love for his Dyns, thought that he would like to the bass and the good mids as well as more air up top....the thing he discovered his dyns did not offer. He wrestled with this thing for a long time. He went through a few brands of speakers to find what he wanted and I even told him he would have to spend very good coin to get a more balanced speaker with the thump in the bottom to satisfy him in the mids and upper ranges...which was a more balanced sound.

I've heard every speaker he listened to in his hunt. And the Revel was a clear winner. Though Peabody said he would have loved to hear the Canton Reference 3.2 , but why bother after we saw what the Revel can do. And besides the Canton Reference are more money...and being a huge fan of Canton speakers, I completely agree with Peabody....What the Revel do better than the t2.5 is give a more refind bottom end that's just as pronounced as the Dyns, deliever a more musical mid section that really boogies with more detail and pop... and a tweeter that has much more air and sparkle...the system is not to lively but its far from boring...every faze of the sound is equal and balanced. Great space between each instrument.

These are things I did not hear in the Dyns, or simply the Revel just did them much better. And the most obvious thing that the Revel did that I did not hear the Dyns do was not only did the Revel present a 3 denominational presentation, but they had a very dark and black back ground...the darkest back ground I have ever heard in any speaker. The dark back ground gave the effect of the speaker having great depth. It was like you could hear layers back in the speaker.

Am I saying that all Revels are better than all Dyns? I dont think so. But the bigger question I would like to have answered...is that the normal characteristics of the Dyn speaker? I don't know, but Hyfi has said he switches his speaker in and out when he wants deeper bass. This is what he has written...", or should I say the compromise of lacking deep bass for awesome midrange." and these "But when I'm in the mood for more bass, I roll the Danes back in for a while" What am I to make of such switching back and forth? I am led to believe that both pair of speakers only do either the bass great or the mid and upper ranges great and are not 3 D speakers at all.

I sure hope I don't get in trouble here, and I am not trying to start trouble or an argument. And if it turns into that I will not respond again. But I think that is the reason why Peabody decided to get new speakers...a good speaker that is balanced with 3D imaging.... the depth was a bonus...

...I have said it once, and will say it again....this is a fun hobby.

Hyfi
10-05-2011, 10:46 AM
But I do know that Peabody loves his Dyns...he loves that bass to hit him in the chest. But he happened to hear what other speakers can do with the top end.


That is exactly how I feel about the Clearfields.


Am I saying that all Revels are better than all Dyns? I dont think so. But the bigger question I would like to have answered...is that the normal characteristics of the Dyn speaker? I don't know, but Hyfi has said he switches his speaker in and out when he wants deeper bass. This is what he has written...", or should I say the compromise of lacking deep bass for awesome midrange." and these "But when I'm in the mood for more bass, I roll the Danes back in for a while" What am I to make of such switching back and forth? I am led to believe that both pair of speakers only do either the bass great or the mid and upper ranges great and are not 3 D speakers at all.

.

The Clearfields have clear well defined, accurate bass...just not Dynaudio deep.

My Dynaudios just don't have the wide open midrange that the Clearfields have and I have been able to ignore the lack of deep bass, or I flip the sub on with the CFs and off with the Danes.

Jack in Wilmington
10-05-2011, 10:55 AM
I dont want to get into another argument about Dyns versus Revels. And it is not my intention to offend any body... But I do know that Peabody loves his Dyns...he loves that bass to hit him in the chest. But he happened to hear what other speakers can do with the top end. While not falling out of love for his Dyns, thought that he would like to the bass and the good mids as well as more air up top....the thing he discovered his dyns did not offer. He wrestled with this thing for a long time. He went through a few brands of speakers to find what he wanted and I even told him he would have to spend very good coin to get a more balanced speaker with the thump in the bottom to satisfy him in the mids and upper ranges...which was a more balanced sound.

I've heard every speaker he listened to in his hunt. And the Revel was a clear winner. Though Peabody said he would have loved to hear the Canton Reference 3.2 , but why bother after we saw what the Revel can do. And besides the Canton Reference are more money...and being a huge fan of Canton speakers, I completely agree with Peabody....What the Revel do better than the t2.5 is give a more refind bottom end that's just as pronounced as the Dyns, deliever a more musical mid section that really boogies with more detail and pop... and a tweeter that has much more air and sparkle...the system is not to lively but its far from boring...every faze of the sound is equal and balanced. Great space between each instrument.

These are things I did not hear in the Dyns, or simply the Revel just did them much better. And the most obvious thing that the Revel did that I did not hear the Dyns do was not only did the Revel present a 3 denominational presentation, but they had a very dark and black back ground...the darkest back ground I have ever heard in any speaker. The dark back ground gave the effect of the speaker having great depth. It was like you could hear layers back in the speaker.

Am I saying that all Revels are better than all Dyns? I dont think so. But the bigger question I would like to have answered...is that the normal characteristics of the Dyn speaker? I don't know, but Hyfi has said he switches his speaker in and out when he wants deeper bass. This is what he has written...", or should I say the compromise of lacking deep bass for awesome midrange." and these "But when I'm in the mood for more bass, I roll the Danes back in for a while" What am I to make of such switching back and forth? I am led to believe that both pair of speakers only do either the bass great or the mid and upper ranges great and are not 3 D speakers at all.

I sure hope I don't get in trouble here, and I am not trying to start trouble or an argument. And if it turns into that I will not respond again. But I think that is the reason why Peabody decided to get new speakers...a good speaker that is balanced with 3D imaging.... the depth was a bonus...

...I have said it once, and will say it again....this is a fun hobby.

All right Frenchie. You asked "is that the normal characteristics of the Dyn speaker?" When you hooked them up to your Vincent they came alive, right. So the answer is no. When they are hooked up to Peabody's CJ gear, then the answer is yes. That's the only thing that Hyfi, Harley and I are saying. You're only guilty of generalizing too much. All's cool.

frenchmon
10-05-2011, 01:24 PM
All right Frenchie. You asked "is that the normal characteristics of the Dyn speaker?" When you hooked them up to your Vincent they came alive, right. So the answer is no. When they are hooked up to Peabody's CJ gear, then the answer is yes. That's the only thing that Hyfi, Harley and I are saying. You're only guilty of generalizing too much. All's cool.

Hi Jack...Yes they came alive...the tweeter had a little more sparkle and the mids where more pronounced and the bass hit even harder. But because the bass hit even harder, more so than the other portions of the sound and they where not as warm...the speaker was still more bass oriented . While the speakers did show more promise in the tweeter and mids...that could have very well been the difference in the CJ and Vincent preamps characters...but still one characteristic of the Dyns seems to be a more pronounced bottom end over the mids and the tweeters.

No I was not generalizing about all speakers but from what Hyfi said it leads me to think so. I have heard other Dyns at the audio shop and they too seem to be more pronounced in the bottom end. May I ask you Jack? Is your Dyns more pronounced in the bottom end...or are they more equally dispersed in the sound...more evenly a 3 D sound?

frenchmon
10-05-2011, 01:27 PM
That is exactly how I feel about the Clearfields.



The Clearfields have clear well defined, accurate bass...just not Dynaudio deep.

My Dynaudios just don't have the wide open midrange that the Clearfields have and I have been able to ignore the lack of deep bass, or I flip the sub on with the CFs and off with the Danes.


Thanks for being honest with your answer Hyfi.

Jack in Wilmington
10-05-2011, 02:16 PM
Hi Jack...Yes they came alive...the tweeter had a little more sparkle and the mids where more pronounced and the bass hit even harder. But because the bass hit even harder, more so than the other portions of the sound and they where not as warm...the speaker was still more bass oriented . While the speakers did show more promise in the tweeter and mids...that could have very well been the difference in the CJ and Vincent preamps characters...but still one characteristic of the Dyns seems to be a more pronounced bottom end over the mids and the tweeters.

No I was not generalizing about all speakers but from what Hyfi said it leads me to think so. I have heard other Dyns at the audio shop and they too seem to be more pronounced in the bottom end. May I ask you Jack? Is your Dyns more pronounced in the bottom end...or are they more equally dispersed in the sound...more evenly a 3 D sound?

I wouldn't say there is a pronounced bottom end. They do go lower than my Ushers (28 hz vs 40 ) so I'm getting what I felt I was missing. Now yesterday I put on my DVD-A recording of Yes's "Fragile" and there the Ushers have the REL sub to take care of the lower registers. Some of Wakeman's notes shake the floor and that to me is pronounced bottom end. Chris Squire's bass work will hit you in the chest.

I may have a different answer for you when I get some SS amplification. I just have no other frame of reference at this point. Like Peabody was happy with the CJ/Dyn combo until he heard what he was missing. He should count himself among the lucky. Some people never get it right.

frenchmon
10-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Thanks...at the end of the day...the only thing that matters is if one is happy with what he is hearing.

harley .guy07
10-05-2011, 07:26 PM
For the most part the systems I have heard with the higher end Dynaudio speakers were driven with mono block SS amps with a lot of power and if they happen to be driven with tube amps it is usually exotic high powered tube amps that cost more than some houses. Dynaudio's higher end lines are for one thing very cool to look at but to me they are out of my budget at least for now but I think as you go up the line they just require more power to make them come Alive as Frenchmon mentioned. I was not trying to start an argument either I was just stating just cause on why I feel the way I do. I see it as more of a friendly argument like talking about who your favorite quarterback is or something like that. Everyone here has their opinion and what holds true in football hold true with high end audio as well. The friendly arguments over which is better or what has synergy with what is part of what keeps this hobby alive and also part of why people are constantly looking for the next big leap in the sound of their own systems. There is really no right or wrong here there is opinion and opinions are what the engineers of this stuff thrive on when they are designing their equipment plus tests and measurements but their opinion of what is the best for their product line is what usually makes a lot of decisions to what is built and that is something that is not like other products. Most electronics companies are bottom line driven only while the high end companies are driven by that for sure as well but they also have a sense of thought to what there product will do and how it compares to like priced stuff. The owners of these companies get together and have friendly arguments just like we are having which to me is a good thing in a way, it keeps the art and soul of this hobby alive and without it it would be as dull as buying appliances or any other electrical device.

frenchmon
10-06-2011, 01:44 AM
For the most part the systems I have heard with the higher end Dynaudio speakers were driven with mono block SS amps with a lot of power and if they happen to be driven with tube amps it is usually exotic high powered tube amps that cost more than some houses. Dynaudio's higher end lines are for one thing very cool to look at but to me they are out of my budget at least for now but I think as you go up the line they just require more power to make them come Alive as Frenchmon mentioned. I was not trying to start an argument either I was just stating just cause on why I feel the way I do. I see it as more of a friendly argument like talking about who your favorite quarterback is or something like that. Everyone here has their opinion and what holds true in football hold true with high end audio as well. The friendly arguments over which is better or what has synergy with what is part of what keeps this hobby alive and also part of why people are constantly looking for the next big leap in the sound of their own systems. There is really no right or wrong here there is opinion and opinions are what the engineers of this stuff thrive on when they are designing their equipment plus tests and measurements but their opinion of what is the best for their product line is what usually makes a lot of decisions to what is built and that is something that is not like other products. Most electronics companies are bottom line driven only while the high end companies are driven by that for sure as well but they also have a sense of thought to what there product will do and how it compares to like priced stuff. The owners of these companies get together and have friendly arguments just like we are having which to me is a good thing in a way, it keeps the art and soul of this hobby alive and without it it would be as dull as buying appliances or any other electrical device.

I agree.

Ajani
10-08-2011, 05:38 PM
I hope Mr Peabody shares his thoughts on the Revels in this thread...

frenchmon
10-09-2011, 10:37 AM
I hope Mr Peabody shares his thoughts on the Revels in this thread...

Ajani...its a very strange thing why Peabody cant connect with his personal computer. I've ask him to checked every thing that I could possibly think of that would possibly block him from AR. My last suggestion to him was to upgrade to w7 from XP. Its almost seems like an IP or physical address conflict. But Peabody has reached out to the admins at AR and they see no filtering. Its just strange that any computer he logs on with other than his own will let him post....Its not a ISP issue either unless they have some sort of filtering which they deny. Every other computers in his home can reach AR.... mystery.