the time is right for a new deck

[dean_martin]

I've had my Pro-Ject 1.2 for about 10 years. I've been flirting with the idea of getting a better belt-drive 'table for a while but after breaking the cartridge leads I've been more serious.

Extra money is hard to come by these days so I did a little housekeeping and discovered that my homeowner's insurance has been gouging me for about a year. I switched companies, got a lower rate and a nice refund check from my mortgage escrow account ergo "the time is right".

Here are the contenders:

1. Rega P5 - prices have been slashed as much as $300 - 400 at reputable online dealers two of which I've done business with.
2. Rega P3-24 - on closeout to make room for the new RP3 (add power supply and the price is the same as P5).
3. Rega RP3 - newest version of the P3 that can be found at a decent introductory price by itself. Seems to lose a little value compared to 1 and 2 if you immediately add the power supply.
4. Pro-Ject RM5.1SE - this is the darkhorse 'table. It's priced the same as the P5, but it comes with a cart (not necessary but nice to have). Its all carbon fibre tonearm is intriguing as is its feet, shape and clamp.

My gut tells me to go for the P5 or I'll always wonder. My brain keeps tripping me up. I've almost eliminated the P3-24 because I'm convinced that I'll need the power supply which would bring the price to the P5's. With the P5, I believe I could wait on the power supply or do without it. Similarly, the RP3 may do fine without the power supply based on the one critic's review out there that compares the P3-24 w/psu to the RP3 without. Finally, I think if I could get the Pro-Ject without the cart and save a couple hundred bucks that that might be the way to go. Someone wanna give me more to think about? Seriously, I think I may be overanalyzing this.

[JohnMichael]

I would stay with Rega. The deals on the 5 are very good right now. I am not sure if the new RP 3 would better the 5'with it's new cross bracing. Of course with the discounts on the 5 I would think a new model is on the way. The 5 is prettier and that is a consideration. I think I would go with the 5.

My Rega Planar 2 has been going strong for a dozen years.

[frenchmon]

Of Course you know I'm pushing the Pro-Ject.

[JohnMichael]

One ttable I would want to consider is the Clearaudio Concept. $1400 new and $1500 with a Clearaudio MM cartridge. Absolute Sounds gave it a positive review.

[dean_martin]

One ttable I would want to consider is the Clearaudio Concept. $1400 new and $1500 with a Clearaudio MM cartridge. Absolute Sounds gave it a positive review.

Thanks, John. My absolute limit is $1000 and I feel a little guilty spending that much but I can live with it if I get the right 'table. The P5 is in the lead as it's going for $999 at some places . I'm still considering calling a couple of online dealers and asking if they would consider selling the Pro-Ject without the cart at a deep discount. I plan to sleep on it and pull the trigger tomorrow.

Have you seen the P5 in person? My understanding is that the surround is made of aluminum. I was going to get the cherry-finished surround until I learned that it was metal and not wood so I'll probably go with black.

[JohnMichael]

Thanks, John. My absolute limit is $1000 and I feel a little guilty spending that much but I can live with it if I get the right 'table. The P5 is in the lead as it's going for $999 at some places . I'm still considering calling a couple of online dealers and asking if they would consider selling the Pro-Ject without the cart at a deep discount. I plan to sleep on it and pull the trigger tomorrow.

Have you seen the P5 in person? My understanding is that the surround is made of aluminum. I was going to get the cherry-finished surround until I learned that it was metal and not wood so I'll probably go with black.



Yes it is aluminum. I would love to compare my Frankenrega to a new Rega. My Planar 2 has so many aftermarket tweaks that I wonder if it has much of the Rega house sound left. It sounds very good but I would enjoy the comparison. Oh and what I advise to everyone is I do not use the Rega alignment but the Baerwald. I think it sounds better.

[titocasas]

I really appreciate the kind of topics you post here. Thanks for sharing information that is actually helpful. Good day!

[frenchmon]

Thanks, John. My absolute limit is $1000 and I feel a little guilty spending that much but I can live with it if I get the right 'table. The P5 is in the lead as it's going for $999 at some places . I'm still considering calling a couple of online dealers and asking if they would consider selling the Pro-Ject without the cart at a deep discount. I plan to sleep on it and pull the trigger tomorrow.

Have you seen the P5 in person? My understanding is that the surround is made of aluminum. I was going to get the cherry-finished surround until I learned that it was metal and not wood so I'll probably go with black.

So do you have a choice of pro's and cons' of why you would chose one table over another other than the best deal? And what other say about them?

[dean_martin]

So do you have a choice of pro's and cons' of why you would chose one table over another other than the best deal? And what other say about them?

Those are legitimate questions, frenchie. The answers to both are "not really". I checked with the Rega distributor Sound Organisations to find the closest Rega dealer. I received an email from Steve referring me to a dealer 554 miles away in Bradenton, Florida. I thought for sure there would be one in Atlanta which is still a long ways from the Alabama/Florida line. (I auditioned a Music Hall MMF7 in Atlanta many years ago.) Things are bad locally. One "high-end" dealer within 50 miles of me told me that Thorens doesn't make turntables anymore and that although he carries Denon he wasn't going to carry their turntables or cartridges (which sucks because I would like to hear a 103 or DL-110). Haven't been back since. The other 2 hifi stores within a 50-mile radius have moved into the home theater installation business and one of'em is concentrating more on pro sound for churches and stuff.

Bottom line is the P5 at $999 w/free shipping from audioadvisor.com seems like a lot of 'table/arm for the money. So . . . I ordered it this morning!!! (Bob at Target Hifi in Bradenton was super fun to talk to. Steve forwarded my email to him so Bob contacted me. I was straight with him about my max budget and audioadvisor's price. I hope to send him some business in the future and would recommend him.)

The P5 should be here Thursday at the latest. If I'm not satisfied, I'll eat the return shipping if I have to, get the Pro-Ject RM5.1SE and consider it the price I have to pay for an in-home audition. I feel pretty sure I would love the Pro-Ject but I couldn't pass up the chance to at least try a Rega. If I don't try it, I'll always wonder. Conversely, If I love the P5, I won't wonder about the Pro-Ject. Can't explain it. (Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.)

BUT, if the P5 was still priced over my budget I wouldn't have even considered it and would've gone with the Pro-Ject over the Rega P3-24 and the new RP3. (In the end, the P5 was #1 and the Pro-Ject was #2.)

[JohnMichael]

I would have mentioned this sooner had I known you were going to order the table this quickly. I do not know about the Ortofon Red but my Ortofon OM20 needed a 2mm spacer for proper VTA. Since the Red was designed with the shape of the Rega tonearms in mind it may not be as tall as the OM20. I also must say that I do not like the Rega alignment. The Rega alignment is designed for the lowest distortion closest to the record label in the innermost grooves. Other alignments have two null points so distortion is low over most of the record.

I like the sound of my table using Baerwald alignment. I only used it for a brief time before realigning with the MoFi Geodisc. Enjoy the new table. There have been many improvements to the design of the 5 from the days my Planar 2 was made.

[02audionoob]

I own a P5 with the power supply and a GrooveTracer subplatter. I say forget the power supply. The GrooveTracer subplatter makes a bigger difference...IMHO from personal experience.

[dean_martin]

I would have mentioned this sooner had I known you were going to order the table this quickly. I do not know about the Ortofon Red but my Ortofon OM20 needed a 2mm spacer for proper VTA. Since the Red was designed with the shape of the Rega tonearms in mind it may not be as tall as the OM20. I also must say that I do not like the Rega alignment. The Rega alignment is designed for the lowest distortion closest to the record label in the innermost grooves. Other alignments have two null points so distortion is low over most of the record.

I like the sound of my table using Baerwald alignment. I only used it for a brief time before realigning with the MoFi Geodisc. Enjoy the new table. There have been many improvements to the design of the 5 from the days my Planar 2 was made.

Thanks again, JM. I have the 2M Red on my Technics. I plan to use my Ortofon MC3-Turbo on the Rega. The MC3-Turbo is not as big as the 2M series. I don't think it is as tall. I still have to measure it to see if I'll need a spacer/shim. I was advised that I could use washers from a hardware store. I'm aware of the no-VTA-adjustment going in. I just hope it's not a bigger issue than I think it is at this point.

(In response to Frenchmon, that's a "con" that I may have to remedy unless my cart is indeed short enough. If it's not as set-and-forget as I've been led to believe, then it may go back.)

[02audionoob]

You can just do it like this...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4669835649_a2cddd9613_b.jpg

[JohnMichael]

I have the older single pillar tonearm bass so I use a 2mm shim from Rega. They have individual single height spacers plus a spacer that gives you three heights in one spacer. I do not think you will need one with the Ortofon MC. Once I get the spacer installed I do not worry about it.

I do not have to use the spacer with the Benz MC Gold and the old Blue Point. I do use the spacer with my Ortofon OM20, Grado Red and Grado Statement Sonata. My records vary in thickness so once I have it in the ball park I just enjoy. Once the Rega is set up for a particular cartridge I do not have to tweak or adjust anything. Turn on and enjoy.

[frenchmon]

Those are legitimate questions, frenchie. The answers to both are "not really". I checked with the Rega distributor Sound Organisations to find the closest Rega dealer. I received an email from Steve referring me to a dealer 554 miles away in Bradenton, Florida. I thought for sure there would be one in Atlanta which is still a long ways from the Alabama/Florida line. (I auditioned a Music Hall MMF7 in Atlanta many years ago.) Things are bad locally. One "high-end" dealer within 50 miles of me told me that Thorens doesn't make turntables anymore and that although he carries Denon he wasn't going to carry their turntables or cartridges (which sucks because I would like to hear a 103 or DL-110). Haven't been back since. The other 2 hifi stores within a 50-mile radius have moved into the home theater installation business and one of'em is concentrating more on pro sound for churches and stuff.

Bottom line is the P5 at $999 w/free shipping from audioadvisor.com seems like a lot of 'table/arm for the money. So . . . I ordered it this morning!!! (Bob at Target Hifi in Bradenton was super fun to talk to. Steve forwarded my email to him so Bob contacted me. I was straight with him about my max budget and audioadvisor's price. I hope to send him some business in the future and would recommend him.)

The P5 should be here Thursday at the latest. If I'm not satisfied, I'll eat the return shipping if I have to, get the Pro-Ject RM5.1SE and consider it the price I have to pay for an in-home audition. I feel pretty sure I would love the Pro-Ject but I couldn't pass up the chance to at least try a Rega. If I don't try it, I'll always wonder. Conversely, If I love the P5, I won't wonder about the Pro-Ject. Can't explain it. (Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.)

BUT, if the P5 was still priced over my budget I wouldn't have even considered it and would've gone with the Pro-Ject over the Rega P3-24 and the new RP3. (In the end, the P5 was #1 and the Pro-Ject was #2.)


Oh...I think you made a wise choice.....Its a great table and I have no doubts that you will love that tabe...especially when you know you got it at a steal. Peabody has a P-3 and it sounds great.

What phono preamp are you using? I have been doing a lot of research on phono preamps and that new Musical Surroundings PHONOMENA II seems to be a very good bargan for the price at $600. Even cheaper than the GCPH phono preamp. They both have all the setting you would want and from what I've read and heard they both sound great.

Congrats on your new table...we are going to need lots of pictures in the "show me your deck" thread...so don't forget!

EDIT: Oh I see you have the Jolida JD9 phono....another good choice! Have you done the mods? I hear they take it up a few notches.

[dean_martin]

You can just do it like this...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4669835649_a2cddd9613_b.jpg

Thanks, noob. Great pic. I'm sure I'll be referring to it when the P5 comes in.

Thanks for your comments on the psu and subplatter, too.

[poppachubby]

Congrats on the new table Dean. I heard a Denon 103 with a wood body mod anmd was blown away. Anyhow you mader the right choice.

[dean_martin]

The P5 came in on Thursday. I've had only about 4 hours with it so far 'cuz of work and personal commitments (stupid wedding). So, I'll post more later and hope to get some pics up soon. Initial impressions are that it is a handsome 'table. Bass extension and power are significantly better than what I was getting with the Pro-Ject and it seems to be a little more open on top. Subtle cymbal playing comes through more. The only drawback is that I don't have the arm height adjusted where I need it just yet. I installed some grommets (funny word) under the arm to use as spacers but I still need a little more height. Turns out that although my Ortofon MC3-Turbo has a small body, it has an extremely long cantilever that makes it as tall as almost all my other carts. (My shortest cart is a Parasound PCS55 that I picked up nos for cheap. Can't find anything on it but it looks like it may have been made by ADC but it's kind of bland sounding and I haven't listened to it in a while.)

I'll be trying different size grommets (funny word) when time permits. Hope this arm-height issue doesn't become a nuisance. Otherwise, I'm impressed so far.

[old geezer]

I just got a rega pr1 and the tone arm was way too low for the Ortofon cart.A slight warp would contact the stylus when the cart was lifted. A serous warp would have smashed the cantilever. The Ortofon cart hums anyway so I switched it with my trusty AT120e.Some reviewers say the VTA isn't adjustable on this deck. Didn't look idiot proof enough for me. All is well now . I ignored the one point alignment too. Two point alignment is much better and worth the sweat and curses.

[JohnMichael]

I just got a rega pr1 and the tone arm was way too low for the Ortofon cart.A slight warp would contact the stylus when the cart was lifted. A serous warp would have smashed the cantilever. The Ortofon cart hums anyway so I switched it with my trusty AT120e.Some reviewers say the VTA isn't adjustable on this deck. Didn't look idiot proof enough for me. All is well now . I ignored the one point alignment too. Two point alignment is much better and worth the sweat and curses.



You are correct that the Ortofon is too tall. Reviewers have even commented on that problem. I use a spacer with my OM20 and also with Grados. I was glad you are using the two point method over the Rega alignment. I find it much better sounding.

[Enochrome]

I'll probably look like an ass, but oh well:

when I had a Rega RB300 it was too low for my DL-110 I could not find the cash for a proper VTA adjuster, so I read the pro bicycle spacers for the headstock work well. I went to Performance Bicycle (a U.S. chain) and they had some for $3.99 (http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1033996_-1___).

You get a set of 3 in white or black or carbon fiber (i think that is more). They are indestructable because they are made to withstand bike torquing and riding conditions, much more than any puny 12 gram tone-arm.

Well... they worked well. I only needed one. The caveat: you can only raise or lower by the height of the spacer, not incrementally like an expensive VTA adjuster. The guy who suggested also had a Rega RB-300.

Cheap way to see if it is needed or not.

[dean_martin]

I went with beveled faucet washers that are shaped similar to noob's "spacers" in the picture above. Thanks again for the pic, noob. Once I got the 'table and started looking for solutions your pic helped bring things into focus.

Compared to my old entry-level belt-drive, the P5 is much more dynamic. Bass is extended with no woofer pumping. I think detail has improved as well. I was listening to side one of Pavement's Terror Twilight yesterday and I heard recorded sounds between tracks 3 and 4. I used to think track 3 faded to silence before track four started, but not anymore.

[JohnMichael]

I went with beveled faucet washers that are shaped similar to noob's "spacers" in the picture above. Thanks again for the pic, noob. Once I got the 'table and started looking for solutions your pic helped bring things into focus.

Compared to my old entry-level belt-drive, the P5 is much more dynamic. Bass is extended with no woofer pumping. I think detail has improved as well. I was listening to side one of Pavement's Terror Twilight yesterday and I heard recorded sounds between tracks 3 and 4. I used to think track 3 faded to silence before track four started, but not anymore.



If you have less woofer pumping your cartridge is a good match for the tonearm. When tonearm mass and cartridge compliance are compatible you have the ideal resonance frequency and less subsonic and low bass problems. Glad you are enjoying higher fidelity.

[02audionoob]

It's nice to hear of the success story.