what is the difference in wires?

[rightaway]

i know that you can get bbigger guages and better terminal ends but why are brands like monster so much money? is there a good buy to buy wires at a better prices? do better wires change the sound?

when i bought my bose system, the wire were small and nothing special about them.

[hifitommy]

a bose system is not capapble of resolving cable differences. a larger gauge wire like 16 or 14 gauge MIGHT make a small difference but generally its when you get into real components that these differences come in to play.

[SlumpBuster]

He's on the upgrade path and not looking to use the Bose.

Wire can be very controversial. Some people swear by esoteric wires, some don't. It is certainly an area rife with snake oil. Use the biggest gauge that you can of a good solid wire. Stay away from Monster unless it is on clearance. Good purveyors of wire without the astronomical expense and without the snake oil include Parts Express and Blue Jeans Cables.

[hifitommy]

the best advice at this point is to just get the equipment and use the interconnects that come with it (or get some from monoprice.com) and for speaker wire, go to home depot or Lowe's and get 16 or 14 gauge twinlead wire.

after you are ready to upgrade your equipment to separates of good pedigree (that may take a while), then and only then try some more premium wires in the less than $100 per pair and preferably less to see IF yo hear an improvement.

of speaker wire upgrade, audioquest makes type 4 which is very affordable and sounds very good.

[JohnMichael]

I have to give a nod of approval to the AntiCables. They are a 12 gauge solid core cables. They are $10 a foot for a stereo pair. If you need 7ft cables they will cost you $70 for a stereo pair. I think they are good enough to see you through many system upgrades.

[blackraven]

BJC's speaker wire, Belden 12g at 60 cents a foot. No nonsense and cheap. I beleive the 10g is about 80cents/ft. They will be the last speaker wire you buy. Most people cant hear the diffence in wire. With 10-12g you can have long runs and not worry about signal degredation.

[hifitommy]

" Most people cant hear the diffence in wire"

thats because receivers arent very revealing. whenb you graduate to more refined components, its like going from dirty regular window glass to exquisitely clean ground crystal. the clarity difference can be very obvious.

some people are happy with an ipod.

[AVMASTER]

i know that you can get bbigger guages and better terminal ends but why are brands like monster so much money? is there a good buy to buy wires at a better prices? do better wires change the sound?

when i bought my bose system, the wire were small and nothing special about them.

the only time I've ever heard a difference in speaker wire was at a Denon training class between ultra high end ($500.00 per meter) and the basic stuff that usually comes with HTIBs
We spec speaker wire based on the application;4 conductor, UL CL3 rated for in-wall, thicker gage for long runs, plenum for duct work, direct burial, etc..
For general use 16 gage 2 conductor with a decent jacket is good enough

[poppachubby]

I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling. Buy something that's a notch above bottom-of-the-barrel. For example, I used Acoustic Research Pro II Series cabling for sometime, and frankly with nice results. I then began experimenting with solid core and tinkering with DIY (cheap and fun). Once I had built the most synergistic system I could afford, I moved my focus to cabling.

My most prized cable is a 1M WBT 2020 w/ locking 0101 plugs. These cables proved to be amazing. Infact I was almost put off by them initially as the highs were so incredibly forward. After a few days I grew accustomed to them, they are between my amp and pre amp, and are a major part of my system.

I have no illusions about cabling, I think Tommy's analogy is a good one. They can make small changes in a system, good or bad is up to the listener. However I laugh at people who say there is no difference at all. At the end of the day it's all subjective and you must do what you feel is best for the sound.

I would suggest some research at this stage. Frankly, Audioquest are a great brand and can be had used at excellent prices, usually about 50% off. Sites like Audiogon are a great place to look and get a feel for the market. In most cases you will be buying from an obsessive audiophile, so the cables will be as new. As far as character goes, I have found AQ's to be smooth and laid back, so whether that's what you end up looking for could be a deal breaker.

As I mentioned with the WBTs, they really unleashed all the highs my system could offer, which is exacty what I was after, having an all tube back end.

OK have a great day, all praise unto cable debates...

[blackraven]

[QUOTE=poppachubby;369406]I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling.

QUOTE]

Which is why I recommended Blue jean cable speaker wire at 60 cents a foot. I have a $500pr speaker wire that sounds no different in my system than the pair of 10g Blue Jeans cables that I bought. Don't knock'em unless you have heard them. A lot of people with higher end systems use them.

At 60 cents/foot he will not be wasting his money. 20ft for $12 is a lot cheaper than dropping $70pr.

[JohnMichael]

[QUOTE=poppachubby;369406]I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling.

QUOTE]

Which is why I recommended Blue jean cable speaker wire at 60 cents a foot. I have a $500pr speaker wire that sounds no different in my system than the pair of 10g Blue Jeans cables that I bought. Don't knock'em unless you have heard them. A lot of people with higher end systems use them.

At 60 cents/foot he will not be wasting his money. 20ft for $12 is a lot cheaper than dropping $70pr.



I see you have listed your IC's but not your speaker cables. May I ask which $500 speaker cables you own?

[JohnMichael]

[QUOTE=poppachubby;369406]I agree with Tommy here, in the early stages of building a system, don't spend too much time or money on cabling.

QUOTE]

Which is why I recommended Blue jean cable speaker wire at 60 cents a foot. I have a $500pr speaker wire that sounds no different in my system than the pair of 10g Blue Jeans cables that I bought. Don't knock'em unless you have heard them. A lot of people with higher end systems use them.

At 60 cents/foot he will not be wasting his money. 20ft for $12 is a lot cheaper than dropping $70pr.



If you went from stranded to stranded you might not notice a difference. If you are curious about solid core try your advice and try magnet wire in 12 gauge. You might be surprised.

Magnet Wire (http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/magnet-wire.html)

Seriously I think you might have fun and be surprised with the results. I might have tried the magnet wire if I knew about it before the AntiCables. Of course I am happy so I will not bother with the magnet wire but I would be interested with your results.

[hifitommy]

i would really be interested in trying some blue jean wire and if the need comes up, i just might.

i WAS lucky to be in the right place at the right time for my speaker wire-20' pair of kimber 8tc for $50!

[blackraven]

[QUOTE=blackraven;369415]



I see you have listed your IC's but not your speaker cables. May I ask which $500 speaker cables you own?

A few yrs back I bought a pair of Z4 reference cables from Monster (i know, I can hear the laughs) on Ebay for $120, they were selling locally here for $499. They are very well made and at least as thick as a garden hose. They sounded no different than a pair of expensive MIT cables that a friend of mine has.
In addition, we compared BJC IC's to $300pr MIT Shot gun IC's and could tell no difference in a system or PSB Synchronies, Nuforce Model 9se monoblocks and an Acoustic Research preamp. Now I'm not saying that there can't be differences just because I can't hear any because there are too many people that say they can!

Monster Cable Z4ML1010 124740 Z4 Precision Audiophile Speaker Cable with Network Terminators Featuring Time Correct windings at Vanns.com (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/753328855)

[Bjorn154]

Cables can make a huge difference - especially silver vs. copper wire. It is really the final step in fine tuning your system to your liking. Silver tends to be very precise if you may - almost harsh in some systems. Copper is more laid back. However, it is very system dependant. Say you have a speaker that is on the laid back side and you want clearer, tighter bas. You could add a silver interconnect from say your DAC to youe pre-amp and so forth until you find the optimal combination. Signal Cable makes excellent silver and copper cables for a decent price so you can experiment.

[JohnMichael]

Cables are interesting to me. I can hear differences in cables when I compare them. On the other hand it takes a week or more in my system to know if the differences are an improvement or something that will begin to grate on the nerves. I once purchased some IC's that were silver plated copper. Initially the detail in female vocals seemed incredible. About two weeks later I could no longer stand to hear most female vocalists through my system. Not all differences are improvements. Differences are easy to hear improvements take a little longer to decide. The cables were sent back during the thirty day trial period.



[QUOTE=JohnMichael;369427]

A few yrs back I bought a pair of Z4 reference cables from Monster (i know, I can hear the laughs) on Ebay for $120, they were selling locally here for $499. They are very well made and at least as thick as a garden hose. They sounded no different than a pair of expensive MIT cables that a friend of mine has.
In addition, we compared BJC IC's to $300pr MIT Shot gun IC's and could tell no difference in a system or PSB Synchronies, Nuforce Model 9se monoblocks and an Acoustic Research preamp. Now I'm not saying that there can't be differences just because I can't hear any because there are too many people that say they can!

Monster Cable Z4ML1010 124740 Z4 Precision Audiophile Speaker Cable with Network Terminators Featuring Time Correct windings at Vanns.com (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/753328855)

[rightaway]

do you think the gauge of the cable makes a difference in sound? right now i have monster xp. not sure the gauge, it think 12-16 gauge??? powering my Dynaudio's off of a adcom amp. now i have some radioshack 10 gauge wire. do you think i should chance to the radioshack wire?

[JohnMichael]

You will have to try them both to see which sounds best. You might be surprised. I am still surprised at the improvement to my system for my ears that the AntiCables have made. I am liking my Monitor Audio RS6's more than I would have thought. One day we may know why little changes can make a big differences.

[blackraven]

Monster XP sounds good and is 16g. For longer runs over 10' higher gauge can be better especially with demanding speakers and a less robust amp. You can never go wrong with heavier gauge speaker wire. If there is no difference in sound then go with the heavier gauge. I tried some 16g wires with my MMG's and they got hot when I played the music loud. So I only use 10-12g. in my systems.

[Baniebs]

Bigger gauges=better sound

[hifitommy]

i dont know what gauge my kimber 8tc is but it works well with MY magnepan MMGs driven by an adcom 555II.

[itsoundsbetter]

I fully agree...Bigger gauges=better sound

[rightaway]

when connecting banana clips into the reciever's input, do you screw the input on the reciever all the way in and than put the banana clip speaker wire in

[cherk001]

is it a noticeable difference though?

[bleachershane]

Go one step able bell wire and the bog standard usually included interconnects and you'll be fine. Some people get far into expensive cables whereas if they were blind tested they wouldn't have a clue!

[hifitommy]

"if they were blind tested they wouldn't have a clue!"

well, not true but if thats where youre at, youre lucky. you wont be spending big bucks on wire.

when you have a receiver, you cant know as most receivers are mid to low fi. with cleaner glass, you see more.

[atlas91]

Just stay away from Monster cables. They just buy regular cables and re-sell them as super high tech expensive ones. Rip off.

[hifitommy]

a cost effective and good sounding speaker wire is the auddioquest type 4. they were given to me gratis when i bought my adcom 555II amp and 565 preamp.

they replaced monster and when i first listened, i thought there was less bass but after a while, i realized the bass definition was tighter and not fat, which is what the monsters were erring at. the top also was cleaner.

yes regular 10-12 ga twin lead is adequate but not what you want if you are refining the sound of your system. the monster was muddying up the low end and i didnt hear it until i substituted the aq for which i had no expectations for.

[hermanv]

I have always had good luck with Cardas products, whether you assemble your own or buy pre-made.

Their stuff is not cheap but, it does one of the better jobs of relating cost to sound quality. What I mean is that the more expensive the cable, the better the sound.

I use their 9 gauge cable for my woofers, a bargain by most standards.

Michael Percy carriers many of their DIY products.

Michael Percy Audio Ordering Information (http://www.percyaudio.com/)

[hermanv]

To a large extent differences between wires is an acquired taste. I did learn that the longer I listened (to quality equipment) the better I got at hearing small differences. I think that increase in acuity is one major cause of the upgrade cycle.

Get wire that fellow hobbyists tend to agree as good product with high cost value per foot/meter. I stay away from wires advertized with some mysterious physical quality or nearly magical component.

I have tried making my own cables and know that if ultra pure metals and first class connectors are used, the expected savings tend to disappear. Which is just another way of saying that expensive cables are not the rip off they might seem.

[TECHNICAL 1]

cables with high copper content is better in transfering any signal better than other alloys copper only is best i work with very long cables when installing satellite systems and sound some cables the good ones have verv low resistence the bad can make an 8 ohm speaker measure about 25 ohms with 20 m cable that means power is lost and it sounds slower and dead cable loss or attentution varys with temperature hot days **** sound cold days better try it 4 ur self lay 30m cable on ur roof and test on cold and hot day and hear the difference i know the roon has aircon but some times cables run in the cieling no air con there now we know more mate pure metal is good what cable did u make anyway and how

[TECHNICAL 1]

Herman how about 1000m 10 guage clear cable 4 the cat in the pic only thing i am in south africa bartering still exists here u know as long as it does not chew cables or maby i can give it a roll of cable so u get 900m i love this cat is it urs i had a cat that used 2 play with cables for hours note we are still talking about cable

[filecat13]

Ah cables, wires, interconnects, power cords...

:dita:

It's the never-ending story. :biggrin5:

[hermanv]

My speakers are tri-wired, with the crossovers at the amplifier end. The short (10 inch) cable from the amplifier to the crossover is Cardas 5 nines 17AWG silver, paralleled 4 times for an aggregate AWG of 11. The main cable(s) run eight feet long, each way.

I used 2 AWG 9 copper Litz in parallel for the woofer. This results in a 6 AWG cable

AWG 17 copper Litz, 5 in parallel for the midrange. This results in a 10 AWG cable

AWG 22 4 nines silver 8 in parallel for the tweeter. This results in a 16 AWG cable

I use heavy gauge Rhodium plated lugs, soldered on. They seem to stay clean and tolerate mechanical abuse. I've had bad luck with bananas since they seem to get lose with age. Gold is good but so expensive that the plating is too thin and is mechanically removed with use.

If memory serves all the above was about $500 in parts, not far off a commercial cable and mine is not sleeved and pretty, although I did shrink sleeve the very ends and I had to provide my own labor.

The crossover and cable configuration are the result of many, many hours of listening to various combinations. The only generic answer is that a heavier gauge always seems to sound better for woof, mid or tweeter. My cables gauges were limited by cost.

[thedj]

Personally I cant hear the difference. Then again I'm not a dog.

[hifitommy]

dj-

"Personally I cant hear the difference"

as you havent listed your equipment, we cant know if it is capable of distinguishing between wires.

its not all about high frequencies, its about imaging differences, dynamics across the audible range of frequencies, tonal coloration, and other things that cannot be measured or that measurements havent been devised to reveal.

if you never are able to hear these differences, you will likely save a lot of time, trouble, and money.

[hermanv]

The analogy that seems to hold up best is the wine taster. The good ones can tell the age and type of wood cask in which the wine was "finished", they can tell in what part of the world the grapes were grown due to miniscule differences in soil composition. Is this a gift from natures or is it learned? As near as I can tell most of the tasters believe it is learned ability. It's not that their taste senses are intrinsically better, it's because they care a lot and trained for years.

So was my experience with cables. Initially I heard no differences between my Monster 1000 interconnects and the "free" ones that came with newly purchased equipment. Eventually I learned to hear more (and discovered that the Monster 1000's were damn poor)

A fair warning, I moved from my good 'ol Sansui receiver to Denon separates and then to the more exotic equipment. My original $500 system became $2,000 and finally ended up nearer to $20,000. I could easily spend more except that I do believe in return on the dollar and with my limited income I am already well past proportionate, realistic costs

Happy listening.

[pammyJ]

I have just acquired two previously awesome compenents.

Pioneers SX-7
Signet SL-260/II speakers

Just wanted to know if they are compatible with each other. I bought 12g copper cables from (Monoprice) to hook up. Still confused with the bi-wire system as I am a noob, but wanted to test them out for a old system.

I love my dad's old amp, even though it is only 60w, I hope it can power these speakers...

[hermanv]

There is no reason to worry about compatibility and 60 Watts will do a decent job of powering the speakers.

I do not know how efficient the Signet SL-260/II speakers are. If they are typical (89 dBSPL per watt), they will not provide room shaking sound while perfectly acceptable to all but the hard rock aficionado.

[hifitommy]

pammy.

hook them up, if they play loud enough for you without obvious distortion, they are compatible.

[E-Stat]

Personally I cant hear the difference. Then again I'm not a dog.
I don't know any dogs with discerning ears.

[Pat D]

i know that you can get bbigger guages and better terminal ends but why are brands like monster so much money? is there a good buy to buy wires at a better prices? do better wires change the sound?

when i bought my bose system, the wire were small and nothing special about them.

Get some good quality speaker wire from the hardware store, something that is not likely to corrode. There's not much point in buying wire smaller than 16 gauge since it is very easy to work with. The main electrical factors for ordinary lengths are the resistance of the wire and the impedance of the speakers. Physically, the wire gauge, the length of the wire, and the impedance of the speakers are most significant in most applications. There is a good entry in Wikipedia on Speaker Wire:

Speaker wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire#cite_note-Russell-2)

I have used the same 12 gauge cable since the mid 80s. If I ever have to get new wires, I probably would go for 14 gauge since it is easier to work with.

[blackraven]

Just buy some unterminated 10,12 or 14g Belden speaker wire from Blue Jeans Cable -- Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices (http://www.bluejeancables.com) and terminate them yourself with their connectors. The wire is dirt cheap and of good quality and very easy to terminate.

[thehifiguy]

If you entered audiophila after the 90's just get Kimber wires and grow from there based on what you hear and how changes sound - based upon live music (not recorded) as your reference.

If you cannot get to live music, try any high quality component chain of equipment (analog), Kimber wires as a start, and pre 90's CDs as your reference. Older TELARC CDs is a good jumping off point.

:14:

[paulsmuk]

On the subject of cables does an upmarket scart lead on a 5.1 system make much difference? ie worth the outlay?

[Poultrygeist]

In discussions of speaker cables what's often overlooked is the gauge of the speaker's internal wiring. I've seen high end speakers with inexpensive 18 gauge wire soldered to the internal binding posts.

Unless it's a long run what benefit is derived from an expensive 9 gauge wire connected to an inexpensive 18 gauge wire? And it's not the same as a fire hose connected to a garden hose.

Tiny gauge cat5 wiring is a favorite among many DIY'ers for certain amp/speaker combos.

Many purist in the full range single driver crowd are inclined to use unbroken speaker wire runs from the amp soldered directly to the driver tabs. My OB speaker builds have been criticized for using binding posts which are considered to be a break in the connection.

[hifitommy]

what may appear to be cheap wire inside speakers may actually be very high quality. being inside, there would be no reason to fancy it up.

[Poultrygeist]

I know 18 gauge stranded copper wire when I see it.

Believe me speaker companies spend most of their money on exteriors. Crossovers and drivers represent chump change in their equation.

[Happy Camper]

The R/L/C combinations of cables on different speakers and lengths do have some impact. Zip cord wiring doesn't do very well with electrostats but may do well with typical dynamic loads. There are different needs requiring consideration. As for the jewelry inspired, nuclear industry certified gimmickry, there are those elitists willing to spend a lot of money for bragging rights. Once the signal gets to the speaker, the needs of the internal connection isn't as critical but there is always room for subtle improvements. I was given a guideline that says to spend 10% of your budget on cables/cords.

[hifitommy]

"Believe me speaker companies spend most of their money on exteriors. Crossovers and drivers represent chump change in their equation."

uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhRIGHT!

[Rikki]

its not all about high frequencies, its about imaging differences, dynamics across the audible range of frequencies, tonal coloration, and other things that cannot be measured or that measurements havent been devised to reveal.

The reason I don't buy this theory is because if you snuck into someone's house in the middle of the night and changed their speaker wire/ICs to just cheap clean copper wire without telling them (assume the cheap wires are the same color/packaging etc. as the original wires- so the difference isn't visual). Are you saying they would notice a difference ? I really don't think so.

If you changed their speakers or processor for sure they would hear a difference - but not the wire.

Or the truely blind test where maybe one day I changed them without telling you and maybe one day I changed them back. I'm not going to tell you when/if I changed them. Are you really going to realize the difference day to day ? And the one day when you say you hear a difference - but I didn't even change them that day - wouldn't that blow the whole scam ?



dj-
as you havent listed your equipment, we cant know if it is capable of distinguishing between wires.


Above reply applies to any system priced $100 --> $1 million

[Hyfi]

Above reply applies to any system priced $100 --> $1 million

Not sure I agree with this one. $100 components can't even playback the source properly let alone be able to convey differences in cables.

You may want to rethink your price point, but I still won't agree.

If the same exact music is played at the same volume on a warmed up system each day, many people will quickly be able to tell that it sounds different.

[Rikki]

If the same exact music is played at the same volume on a warmed up system each day, many people will quickly be able to tell that it sounds different.

That I will agree with. Copper wire (along with the other components) can make music sound different - based on if it's hot or cold. The nicer the system the more you will probably notice it.

But my point is no one is improving copper wire. Copper is copper. Ergo, wire is wire.

Only God (the real God not Eric Clapton) could improve copper. And even He would have to call it something else for copyright reasons.

[JohnMichael]

That I will agree with. Copper wire (along with the other components) can make music sound different - based on if it's hot or cold. The nicer the system the more you will probably notice it.

But my point is no one is improving copper wire. Copper is copper. Ergo, wire is wire.

Only God (the real God not Eric Clapton) could improve copper. And even He would have to call it something else for copyright reasons.


Unless of course your cables are made from silver or aluminum or other materials that have been used. Is copper not refined in the manufacturing process so man does have to improve upon the original.

[Poultrygeist]

If I attempted a discussion of the superiority of high end cables or wires on DIY Audio I'd be laughed at.

[E-Stat]

If I attempted a discussion of the superiority of high end cables or wires on DIY Audio I'd be laughed at.
There are non-experiential theorists found all over the internet.

You might like Hydrogen Audio, too. But then, they'd laugh at your use of SET amps. Obviously op amps are far superior and they have the measurements to prove it. :)

[E-Stat]

But my point is no one is improving copper wire.
Actually, many companies are improving the conductors using alloys of either aluminum or silver. But, I digress. Let's look at one of two other variables: geometry. Look at the metrics table at the bottom of this (http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Low-Inductance-DIY-Speaker-Cables/) link. Do you notice any differences with capacitance or inductance using pretty much the same copper wire, but with different geometries?

Hint: Cables are part of the system and interact with amplification stages and speaker crossovers. Cables with a lower effective dielectric constant (product of capacitance and inductance) fare better. Here (http://forums.audioreview.com/321078-post234.html) are a few representative values.

For those who think that zip cord is *perfect*, take a look at the distortion added when used in the real world as evidenced with this test. (http://www.eetimes.com/design/audio-design/4015821/Loudspeakers-Effects-of-amplifiers-and-cables--Part-5)

I just have to smile at those with ZERO exposure to high performance cables (or systems for that matter) and conclude they cannot possibly make a difference using simplistic criteria. :)

[Poultrygeist]

Audiophoolery (http://www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html)

[JohnMichael]

I just have to smile at those with ZERO exposure to high performance cables (or systems for that matter) and conclude they cannot possibly make a difference using simplistic criteria. :)



I could not agree more. As I have mentioned before some of us hear differences in cables and others do not. Yes my life would be easier if I did not hear differences but I do. My system is better for all the experimentation I have done. I also have enough copper here to have to worry about copper thieves.

[E-Stat]

Audiophoolery (http://www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html)
Yes, I know of Ethan Winer from the Asylum. His company, Rives Audio, has a forum there on room treatments. I am in complete agreement with him in the value of treating the room with bass traps, sails and other touches. Rives has done some incredible rooms with incredible systems. Like that of Mike Lavgne (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html). Somehow I think he figured out that zip cord wasn't exactly the best solution for him either. I use a dozen bass traps in the main system - yielding incredibly smooth measured response from 25-200 hz.

Let's take a look at what he says about cabling:

" But those are not a factor with usual cable lengths at audio frequencies, especially when connecting speakers to a power amplifier. Low capacitance wire can be important in special cases, like between a phonograph cartridge and its preamp. But high quality, low capacitance wire can be had for pennies per foot. "

Well, that's certainly a convincing argument. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. Let's go a bit further.

"Even sillier than expensive speaker wire is replacement AC power cords and most other power "conditioner" products... Noise and static can get into your gear through the power line and damage the sound...The suggestion that subtle changes in "clarity and presence" can occur is plain fraud."

Yet another convincing argument completely supported by...

supported by...

It is sad that folks who presumably love the experience of listening to music somehow arbitrarily decide not to experience better. Many of us already have. To wit:

"All of us associated with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra are extremely pleased with the results gained from using the Shunyata Research Hydra and power cords in our reference recording studios. These outstanding, musical products have enhanced our recordings and made it easier for our musicians to hear the detail of their instruments!"
-- Peter Poltun, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

“As studio owners, we are regularly exposed to numerous ‘quality enhancement products’ and have naturally become cautious and very selective; you rarely achieve an audible improvement without somehow adversely affecting another element in the audio chain. We have been using Shunyata power cables at my studio for some time now. Careful placement of the cables has resulted in reduced distortion, improved clarity, better low level detail and richer 3-dimensional depth in the soundstage. The Anaconda PowerSnakes, for example, have transformed our Sonoma system, used during the mastering process for the new 5.1 mix of ‘The Dark Side of The Moon’. I look forward to trying the Hydra AC distribution next. Highly recommended."
-- James Guthrie, Grammy award winning Producer/Engineer (Pink Floyd)

“We first put the Hydra to test on a monitor system that had problems with noise and clarity. The result was less noise with an improvement in overall sound quality. We now use the Hydra's on our Model 2 converters, AES router and main monitor system consisting of B&W 802 speakers and Chord Amps.“
-- Clayton Wood, Senior Engineer: SkyWalker Sound

"Shunyata Research power cables and interconnects made a remarkable difference in my reference system. The PowerSnakes power cables added effortless muscularity, control and wide-open clarity to the amps driving my speakers. These are not subtle tweaks. I would guess the amps sound 15 percent better -- a far bigger difference than any speaker cables have made and in many cases, as unbelievable as it may seem, a greater improvement than changing the whole front end. I could not recommend them highly enough."
-- Rick Rubin, Grammy winning Record Producer

"We conducted a series of listening test to both the Shunyata cables and the Hydra power conditioner. Our comparison point included both standard mains cables and other esoteric cables. We found that both the Shunyata cables and the Hydra gave the best results by some margin."
-- Phil Taylor, Studio Manager: Astoria Studio, UK

"We were particularly impressed with the sense of phase coherence that Shunyata products delivered, giving noticeably better imaging, depth and clarity. We tried many different areas of our signal path, all benefited. With digital sources it was almost as if we had switched from 44.1k/16 bit to 96k/ 24 bit. We now run all our analogue machines, workstations and the mixing console from the Shunyata equipment."
-- Andy Jackson, Senior Mastering Engineer: Astoria Studio. UK

"I have personally evaluated the Hydra power conditioning system along with your PowerSnakes power cables. I was very impressed with the results. Shunyata Research products are now part of my equipment set up. Especially, with my 2 track tape machines, the sound with your system was definitely more transparent and clear. I would highly recommend Shunyata Research products to any professional audio/video facility.”
-- Vlado Meller, Senior Mastering Engineer: Sony Music Studios, New York

"I have been very skeptical of power related tweaks above and beyond good basic engineering practices like wire sizing, proper grounding and good solid connections. That said I tried to be open to the merits of the Shunyata approach regarding power management. After living with various power cables, outlets and Hydra AC distribution systems for several months while working on my DMP Archive Project, I can honestly say that Shunyata Power Systems do contribute to a more solid, focused and accurate sonic picture."
-- Tom Jung, President: Digital Music Products Inc.

"For many years, I've tried and tested power conditioners by major manufacturers with varying results. I'm pleased to say that I can now put my search for the elusive optimal AC conditioner to rest. The Hydra Model-8 and Hydra Model-2 power conditioners coupled with Shunyata's power cables have provided me with an extremely clean and transparent foundation by which I can check and approve test pressings with full confidence."
-- Steven Epstein, 12 time Grammy winner 6 time Grammy winner: "Classical Producer Of The Year”

"I've run out of words to describe the effect Shunyata Research has had on the SACD experience in our studio. From the mass and quality of the Hydra power distribution center with it's dynamic openness, the clarity gleaned from the Anaconda Alpha/Anaconda VX, and the direct detail obtained from the interconnects and speaker cables. Shunyata Research has put a very positive signature on Crest National's, Hollywood reference listening experience."
-- Jon Truckenmiller, Sr. VP Engineering: Crest National Studios

"We are using various Shunyata products to further our quest for the best signal path in tracking, mixing, and mastering. The Hydra Model-2 and Hydra Model-6 on various vintage guitar amps and vintage analog keyboards have made a world of difference in clarity and punch. We are using the Python line for our 24-track tape machine, DACs, tube preamps, and tube microphone power supplies. On the power amps we have the Taipan line. Again I have noticed more definition in the transients. Overall I think that Shunyata products are an integral part of taking the critical listening system to the next level."
-- Brett Allen, Studio Manager: Look Out Sound Studios

“After trying numerous top shelf brands of power distribution and IC's for my mastering facility, only the Shunyata Research Hydra's and PowerSnakes remained as a vital part of my signal path and playback system. It's never been so easy to achieve the great sound that I have been striving for -- I no longer have to reach for my equalizers to find space for the details that I now have in spades. Lower noise levels let me get deeper into a mix without sacrificing power to my equipment. No anemic sounds here! Just music that always sounds right. I want to re-master my whole discography now!”
-- Phil Demetro, Mastering Engineer: The Lacquer Channel, Toronto

All in all, the system now produces an audio hologram that much more closely approximates a live performance. Thanks for your recommendation of this excellent product."
-- Doug Munch, New Jersey Philharmonic Orchestra

The *teachings* of non-experiential theorists just don't contradict my experience and that of many discerning listeners.

[hifitommy]

rikki:

" wouldn't that blow the whole scam ?"

it is not a scam and its obvious that you have a closed mind. you can take comfort in the fact that you won't spend money on wire unless it comes from monoprice. you can enjoy music even in a lo-fi existence, i have no axe to grind and do not care whether anyone else pays more than the lowest price for any wire. i hear differences in wire and select accordingly.

i have never paid more than $100 for any one wire or pair of them but if i had audio research reference series electronics and wilson audio sashas, you can bet i wouldn't go for ratshack level cabling in my system.

as for the DIY people, why would they engage making a wire that way if they didn't believe there was a sonic advantage? i respect them for the money saving approach to better sound.

[LeRoy]

I hear differences in presentation with changes in cabling. I have spent up to $300/pr for I.C.'s from Blue Marble Audio, $150/pr for Anti-Cable I.C.'s , and $75/pr for Virtue Audio Nirvana Cables. So which IC reigns supreme in my rig? None of the above. The IC from Neko Audio which happens to be Beldon wire is the best I have ever had and it's only $68/pr!

Yes, there are differences to be sure but I got lucky in finding a great product at a really affordable price.

[E-Stat]

The IC from Neko Audio which happens to be Beldon wire is the best I have ever had and it's only $68/pr!
I bought and terminated some bulk Belden 1505 for the office since it was a relatively long run from the computer. to the receiver.

The first time I did that was in '77 when I got Acoustat X speakers. Since they were powered, I needed a ten meter run from the preamp. Don't remember exactly which flavor I chose.

[Rikki]

i hear differences in wire and select accordingly.

I hear differences in presentation with changes in cabling.

I would bet anything a blind test would prove this wrong.

You have to admit that at least part of it is psychological. Meaning when you change wire (and maybe spent a lot of money) your mind wants there to be a difference even if there isn't one.

Sears has an appliance brand named Kenmore. There isn't a Kenmore factory it's just a brand name and they really are Whirlpool appliances. They are built on the same line in the same factory and then a label is slapped on at the end with maybe a few other cosmetic differences. However, people will swear that their Whirlpool washer is better than a Kenmore just because they paid more and Whirlpool is a more well known/respected brand name. It's just human nature.

[Poultrygeist]

You won't find any boutique speakers wires at Hornfest but you will see Walmart Woods Patio cords hooked up to a $35K three chassis GM70 SET.

[E-Stat]

You have to admit that at least part of it is psychological. Meaning when you change wire (and maybe spent a lot of money) your mind wants there to be a difference even if there isn't one.
Or, the converse. Your audio reviewer friend has just lent you his two Kimber Palladians to try out in your system and you really don't want to hear a difference.

I did.

[E-Stat]

You won't find any boutique speakers wires at Hornfes...
You will find Nordost Valhalla wiring in all of VPI's best tonearms (http://vpiindustries.com/main-tonearms.htm) after Harry Weisfeld heard HP's system at Sea Cliff.

You will also find Nordost wiring in the latest Nola Grand Reference (http://www.nolaspeakers.com/products/exoticagr_b.php) tower for the same reason.

I thought the Super Scoutmaster sounded fabulous with either the big Nolas or Scaena 1.4s. HP currently uses Odin cabling throughout. It really is fun to hear your favorite music essentially for the first time with spectacularly high resolution systems like his. You hear stuff you never had before.

It's certainly fine by me if you're not interested in better.

[LeRoy]

@ E-Stat, man, I had no idea Belden could be used in the audio chain with such excellent results. I knew Belden existed but never heard their wire in a system and I was shocked to learn Neko uses Beldon 1800F for their IC's. I found a review by BJC and even thought the 1800F result was not stellar by their published results it did mention that when the 1800F is utilized with XLR balanced then it's a superb cable. I know that's right because thats exactly what I got hooked up right now. Besides BJC I wonder who else used Beldon cable.

@ Rikki, you would lose the bet. I can hear differences in how changes in cabling can change extension, decay, tonality, etc. Sometimes the difference are very subtle or quite vast. Psychologically speaking, yes I "expect" to hear a difference because there is a different or swapped piece in the audio chain but that does not mean that whatever changes that I hear are preferred over the former. I paid less money for the Neko than with the Blue Marble Audio. I prefer the Neko not because of the price difference but for the SQ results that it delivers in my rig. I think being able to detect changes in SQ with regard to cable exchanges is a learned over time with a great many different system configs. I can appreciate your position though as I used to not believe it either until one day I noticed the differences and have been noticing ever since.

[E-Stat]

@ E-Stat, man, I had no idea Belden could be used in the audio chain with such excellent results.
Since Belden has been in the business for over a century (http://belden.com/aboutbelden/company/history/index.cfm), they've always made good stuff. I have also made DIY power cables using their cordage and fire alarm cable. The latter is 12 gauge and is double shielded.

Here's (http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/diyMains/) the recipe for the 83803 cable used in the vintage system with a Threshold power amp. Remember that a power cord is the first three feet of power line which can pickup and radiate RFI into nearby interconnects and components.

[LeRoy]

Thanks for the recipe! I think I am gonna have to give it a shot but probably until this summer. Thanks again E-Stat.