Question for Sir T or anyone with dog experience.

[ForeverAutumn]

My brother's family has a 1-yr-old English Sheppard. She's a lovely dog most of the time. We spent a week together at a cottage recently and all was fine...until my other brother arrived.

We all arrived on Sunday, except for the other brother. The dog has only met my husband and I a couple of times. At no time did the dog have any problems with anyone.

For ease, let's call the brother who owns the dog B1 and the other brother B2.

On Tuesday night B2 arrived. He arrived late at night, in the dark and tried to just walk into the cottage. I guess he scared the dog because she freaked out at him. She started barking and growling and tore a hole in his shorts before B1 was able to get hold of her collar and leash her. B2 sat in a chair near the door and tried to be as unthreatening as he could. He didn't address the dog after that, except to give her some treats to try and gain her trust which she hesitantly accepted. But she continued to bark and growl at him anytime he moved.

The next morning she seemed to be over it. We kept her leash on but let her wander freely while someone held the leash to pull her back if needed. She walked up to B2 and sniffed at him and she seemed okay with him. She was relaxed around him and everything was good. But then B2 accidently knocked a water bottle over on a glass coffee table and she started barking and growling at him again. It was such a sudden change that it made us all nervous to have her around him at all.

We thought the problem was just with him. But then she started barking and growling at the couple we rent the cottage from. She had been perfectly fine around them up until B2 arrived and scared her.

My sister-in-law went out and bought a muzzle for the dog. For the rest of the week, anytime the dog started barking threateningly at someone, she would quickly get muzzled. It was partly to protect whoever she was barking at, but also to show the dog that the behaviour is not acceptable. The muzzle would stay on until the dog calmed down and then it came off. After a couple of days she seemed to be getting the hint. B2 had gone home by then so we don't know whether the calming down can be attributed to the muzzle or just to the fact that the threat was gone.

My questions are this...
Was muzzling the dog the right thing to do?
Is there a way to train the dog that this aggressive behaviour is not acceptable?
We assume that her aggressiveness is because B2 frightened her and she was being protective of the rest of us. But could it have been something else about him?
Why would she start showing aggression to the couple that we rent the cottage from when she was perfectly fine with them the three days prior to that?

Apparently, this happened once before with someone that B1 and his family went camping with. The dog just took a dislike to one of the other people on the camping trip and they had to keep her far away from him.

Dog ownership is new to our family. We've generally been cat people up until now. The dog is smart and learns quickly but we need to know how and what to teach her in order for her to learn.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. :)

[JohnMichael]

Sir T is your man. He gave me some great advice on how to train Corky. Corky disregarded it and trained me. The point is we are both happy. I have no advice just clever anecdotes.

[manlystanley]

I'm not a dog expert, I just feed-um and use um for hunting. But, it sounds like the dog is scared. That's why it growls and barks at certain situations and people. I've just found out that giving a dog love and time will solve many problems.

On a sad note, had to put my oldest dog down. Old fella was 17 years old. Could barely walk. Then had a stroke and just laid there soiling it's self. Very said to be responsible for ending the life of an old friend.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

FA,
It sounds to me like B2 does not have good energy when around the dog, and cottage owners just came at the wrong time. Dogs need to be around confident, assured, and leadership oriented dogs or they will not be mentally stable.

B2 should not have came in the middle of the night, but should have come with the other members of the party. It sounds like the dog was protective, but also anxious around B2 as well


Was muzzling the dog the right thing to do?

Absolutely the right thing to do. When dealing with this kind of anxiousness(not aggression as he would be aggressive with everyone in the party), you protect humans FIRST, and deal with the dogs behavior after that. This is the best way to avert lawsuits and complications with family members.



Is there a way to train the dog that this aggressive behaviour is not acceptable?


There is a way, but I would have to see the dog in action to tell you exactly how to "discourage" this behavior. This kind of thing is not "training" per se, but addressing behavioral problems(which is my expertise). Daily socialization with new people, and "opposing" any misbehavior will correct the problem. Keeping the dog on leash when introducing a new person to the dog is also important. You need to be able to control the dog if something unexpected comes up.

Secondly, I have a rule when folks come to my house, or greet my dogs on a walk. No touch, no eye contact, no speaking, and no affection until the dog is totally calm and submissive. The dog must come to you and sniff, as that is a way a dog identifies you. After the sniff is over, and the dog is calm, then you can touch and give affection.

The dog should be walked everyday, and taken into as many new places as you can take them. This way if there is something that triggers the misbehavior, you can correct it immediately with a slight tug on the leash, or a firm touch on the sides or rear of the dog.



We assume that her aggressiveness is because B2 frightened her and she was being protective of the rest of us. But could it have been something else about him?

The dog must also not like his energy. Dogs can sense things that we humans cannot, and it takes a lot of study of dog behavior to understand what sets them off. Some folks do not have good energy, or exhibit fear and anxiousness when they look calm otherwise. Has this dog been exposed to B2 before this meeting?


Why would she start showing aggression to the couple that we rent the cottage from when she was perfectly fine with them the three days prior to that?

B2 probably was not there in that prior meeting. I think he is the key to your dog troubles. The word "aggression" is often used pretty loosely when it comes to dogs. Sometimes it is lack of confidence, anxiousness, or just plain somebody bad energy they are "reacting" to. We we look at as aggression could just mean stay away, stay away.

I always like to test my theories, but prefer to be present when it happens. An experiment I would try is when the family get back together again(sans B2), and compare the dogs behavior when he is present. Then I would ask B2 what he was thinking before he arrived, and now that he is here, and ask him to be totally honest. Then I would re-introduce B2 to the dog the proper way. No touch, no eye contact, no speech, no affection until the dog sniffs and walks away. He then can give the dog treats after that using the same rules. When the dog no longer barks or reacts negatively towards him, he is free to touch, and show the dog affection. What you don't want to do is give affection when the dog is unstable, as that only reinforces the behavior.

When I am correcting this kind of behavior, I do not use my voice as that can make things worse. I use the touch, or a "sshhtt" sound, snap my fingers, and use my energy to oppose the behavior. Because I am a strong leader and most dogs know that by my energy, that usually does the job.

I have more tips to give you, but I should let you digest this first just in case you have more questions.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm not a dog expert, I just feed-um and use um for hunting. But, it sounds like the dog is scared. That's why it growls and barks at certain situations and people. I've just found out that giving a dog love and time will solve many problems.

When treating this kind of behavior, the last thing the dog needs is affection. This will make things worse, as affection is a sign the dog is behaving well.


On a sad note, had to put my oldest dog down. Old fella was 17 years old. Could barely walk. Then had a stroke and just laid there soiling it's self. Very said to be responsible for ending the life of an old friend.

I am sooo sorry to hear about this MS. I lost my dog of 15 years last year. I ended up getting 3 more dogs, or I should say I inherited two dogs, and got a new dog for myself. This was the best thing I could do for myself, and I am a far better leader than I was with my previous dog. I always instructed people how to handle their dogs, but rarely applied that to my dog. This time around, that drastically change. Since my dogs work with me, and cannot afford to ignore their behavior.

[manlystanley]

When treating this kind of behavior, the last thing the dog needs is affection. This will make things worse, as affection is a sign the dog is behaving well.

.

Sir T: You're the man. Thanks for the pointer.




I am sooo sorry to hear about this MS. I lost my dog of 15 years last year. I ended up getting 3 more dogs, or I should say I inherited two dogs, and got a new dog for myself. This was the best thing I could do for myself, and I am a far better leader than I was with my previous dog. I always instructed people how to handle their dogs, but rarely applied that to my dog. This time around, that drastically change. Since my dogs work with me, and cannot afford to ignore their behavior.


.

Thanks. We have not gotten another dog yet. Maybe in a bit. We're thinking of getting a seeing e-dog in training.

[ForeverAutumn]

When treating this kind of behavior, the last thing the dog needs is affection. This will make things worse, as affection is a sign the dog is behaving well.

Thanks for your comments SirT. This much we knew. When my 11-yr-old niece started coddling Shiloh and telling her that it's okay and there's nothing to be afraid of. My brother (B1) stopped her and explained exactly this reasoning.

The dog had been exposed to B2 in the past and she was perfectly fine around him. But it was in her own home where she was comfortable and relaxed. They have not been together since the cottage. But I'm sure that when they are together again B2 will be nervous around her...whether he'll admit it or not.

I'll tell the dog's family what you suggested about having someone that the dog trusts come into the house with him the next time. We actually did do that one night at the cottage when Hubby and I went grocery shopping and it was dark when we got back. My niece came out to the car to walk us into the house so that Shiloh wouldn't get upset. It seemed to work, but she never had a problem with us to begin with, so who knows.

I'm not sure how Shiloh has been reacting to people since then. I do know that when she came home from the breeder, they let her get used to her new home and then started inviting people over in small groups to socialize her. The excuse was to have a Puppy Party so that everyone (friends, family) could meet her. But one of the real reasons was to get her used to being around people other than just her family.

[ForeverAutumn]

Sorry to hear about both your dogs. Losing a pet sucks.

[ForeverAutumn]

Oh, one more thing. I think that saying Shiloh was anxious rather than agressive would be correct. Her behavour was cleary nervous behavour. I think that she was trying to intimidate him, but not hurt him. She had opportunities to hurt him but didn't. After she calmed down, she went out of her way to avoid him. She walked wide circles around him, and slept upstairs in the loft with her family...which the kids had been trying to get her to do all week and she refused. Once P2 left the cottage after two nights, she went back to sleeping on the first floor.

Also, the next morning when she started barking at the cottage owner, she could have bit him but didn't. He is an experienced dog owner. When she started barking at him, he dropped down to his knees to be her height, continued to talk to my brother and never once looked at her. Once she calmed down, he put his hand out to sniff. She moved towards him with her teeth bared, put her nose to his hand and turned away. She could have easily bit his hand. But she didn't. Once she calmed down completely he rewarded her with some cookies.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Oh, one more thing. I think that saying Shiloh was anxious rather than agressive would be correct. Her behavour was cleary nervous behavour. I think that she was trying to intimidate him, but not hurt him. She had opportunities to hurt him but didn't. After she calmed down, she went out of her way to avoid him. She walked wide circles around him, and slept upstairs in the loft with her family...which the kids had been trying to get her to do all week and she refused. Once P2 left the cottage after two nights, she went back to sleeping on the first floor.

Often times what people think is aggression in a dog, is really just saying "stay away, I am nervous about you being here, I don't like your energy right now". This can be especially true when a dog enters a new environment they are not comfortable with yet. When a dog is aggressive, everyone is a target, not just one person. P2 must have had bad energy on this trip, and the dog was avoiding him because of it. Does not make him a bad person, the dog is just more sensitive to these things than we are.


Also, the next morning when she started barking at the cottage owner, she could have bit him but didn't. He is an experienced dog owner. When she started barking at him, he dropped down to his knees to be her height, continued to talk to my brother and never once looked at her. Once she calmed down, he put his hand out to sniff. She moved towards him with her teeth bared, put her nose to his hand and turned away. She could have easily bit his hand. But she didn't. Once she calmed down completely he rewarded her with some cookies.

While I would caution against dropping down to a dogs level(in a dog pack, that is a sign of submission), the rest of what he did was perfect.

[blackraven]

For one the dog is in a strange place and not in its own home on familiar territory and so it probalby is a little stressed and two, it sounds like it has a confidence problem, three- B2 as stated before has some negative energy and is probably wary or afraid of the dog and the dog senses this.

I have my second Giant Schnauzer and 100# male brut who has similar problems. Dog training classes and socialization and well as consistency has helped tremendously.

B2 needs to show no fear and have a positive attitude. You might try letting B2 take the dog for a walk and have him give the dog commands to follow. But I would always be wary with dog around people an d especially children. I have had dogs all my life and have been a responsible dog breeder in the past. And dealing with 2 generations of Giant Schnauzer's has helped me learn to properly train a dog.

Lots of good advice was given in the preceeding post's.

[StevenSurprenant]

Dog ownership is new to our family. We've generally been cat people up until now. The dog is smart and learns quickly but we need to know how and what to teach her in order for her to learn.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. :)

I'm no expert, but I owned a German Shepard dog and the vet instructed me how to get the dog under control and make him understand who top dog was. It was very simple and painless. I would force him onto his side, grab a back leg and a front leg, then I would put my forearm across his neck and use it to keep the dog on it's side until he relaxed. The dog would try and get up and I would just push his head down with my forearm while I spoke soothingly to him. After he relaxed enough, I would remove my arm and my hand from his front leg and begin stroking him, again while soothing him with my voice. Eventually, he struggled less and less, until all struggling stopped. The funny thing was that, after he got older, if he felt he did something wrong, he would automatically lie on his side. He was a great dog!

I don't know if this will help, but it's another possible solution.

As for your dogs behavior...

It might that she was startled and acted out of fear, but after that, the brother was afraid of the her and she sensed it.

I'll tell you a little story that while it doesn't directly apply to your situation, it might interest you...

My shepard had a sister that I hadn't seen since she was a puppy. My friend brought her over when she had gotten about 6 to 8 months old. I reached down to pet her and she growled and snarled at me. I stood back up and after looking at her, I decided that she was just afraid of me. She had grown up in the country and hadn't been around other people. She really needed a bath, so I just reached down, picking her up through the snarls and carried her upstairs to the bathroom and gave her a bath. After that, she was my best friend. In fact, I think she liked me better than her owner.

She stayed with me for a while and one day I took a nap on the couch, only to wake up to find her lying on my chest. My dog was at the top of the stairs and when he saw that I had awaken, he started to go down the stairs to see me, but his sister snarled at him and he went back up stairs, afraid. They eventually got over this.

Anyway, the moral of the story was that she learned not to be afraid of me because I was not afraid of her, and loved me for it.

Like I said, I'm not the expert here, so take my story with a grain of salt. This is more of a real life story rather than a suggestion.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm no expert, but I owned a German Shepard dog and the vet instructed me how to get the dog under control and make him understand who top dog was. It was very simple and painless. I would force him onto his side, grab a back leg and a front leg, then I would put my forearm across his neck and use it to keep the dog on it's side until he relaxed. The dog would try and get up and I would just push his head down with my forearm while I spoke soothingly to him. After he relaxed enough, I would remove my arm and my hand from his front leg and begin stroking him, again while soothing him with my voice. Eventually, he struggled less and less, until all struggling stopped. The funny thing was that, after he got older, if he felt he did something wrong, he would automatically lie on his side. He was a great dog!

This is called the alpha roll, and it should not be done unless you know exactly what you are doing. I only use this in very VERY extreme cases where you have a very aggressive dog who is out of control.(red flag dog). There are other calming techniques(like using lavender soap or scent) that are better suited for less aggressive dogs.

What this dog needed was a long walk around the area to introduce it to a new environment. When a dog is going to places it has never been, it needs to be properly introduced to that area. The walk is the best way to make that introduction.


It might that she was startled and acted out of fear, but after that, the brother was afraid of the her and she sensed it.

She was acting out of nervousness and anxiety. Fear would illicit a quite different reaction - like running away, dropping down of the body, and/or peeing, or going into the attack mode(which she didn't do). It is called the flight or fight reaction.


I'll tell you a little story that while it doesn't directly apply to your situation, it might interest you...

]My shepard had a sister that I hadn't seen since she was a puppy. My friend brought her over when she had gotten about 6 to 8 months old. I reached down to pet her and she growled and snarled at me. I stood back up and after looking at her, I decided that she was just afraid of me. She had grown up in the country and hadn't been around other people. She really needed a bath, so I just reached down, picking her up through the snarls and carried her upstairs to the bathroom and gave her a bath. After that, she was my best friend. In fact, I think she liked me better than her owner.

Steve, you made a small error here. You should never greet a dog in the way you did. You should always let the dog greet you first. Dogs use their noses to introduce themselves to you, so you allow them to walk up and sniff you first, and then you slowly lower closed hand and pet the dog under the chin(over the head is a sign of dominance). It is best of this "intro" is done in complete silence. Her growling at you when you reached down to her is a sign that she was not ready for your approach.


She stayed with me for a while and one day I took a nap on the couch, only to wake up to find her lying on my chest. My dog was at the top of the stairs and when he saw that I had awaken, he started to go down the stairs to see me, but his sister snarled at him and he went back up stairs, afraid. They eventually got over this.

When a dog is laying across your chest, and growls when YOUR dog approaches, that dog is possessing you. That is something that should NOT be encouraged.


Anyway, the moral of the story was that she learned not to be afraid of me because I was not afraid of her, and loved me for it.

Like I said, I'm not the expert here, so take my story with a grain of salt. This is more of a real life story rather than a suggestion.

One of the biggest mistakes dog owners make is using human sensibilities when dealing with their dogs. What seems intuitive to a human, is usually not so much so for the dog. We humans greet with the voice and hand, dogs do it with their noses. Dogs should greet us, we should not greet them first. When we think they are aggressive, they are nervous or anxious.

Proper dog training is often ignored, but is one of the most important things for puppy and dog development.

[StevenSurprenant]

One of the biggest mistakes dog owners make is using human sensibilities when dealing with their dogs. What seems intuitive to a human, is usually not so much so for the dog. We humans greet with the voice and hand, dogs do it with their noses. Dogs should greet us, we should not greet them first. When we think they are aggressive, they are nervous or anxious.

Proper dog training is often ignored, but is one of the most important things for puppy and dog development.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but concerning my dogs sister, there were subtle clues from her which made what I did the best course of action. Normally, I use the hand nose method, as you said, when I meet a new dog. I've been around dogs all my life and can read them, for the most part. Still, that doesn't make me a trainer.

You are also right about her possessing me. The point was that she went from being anxious to trusting me in a matter of an hour or so. I didn't allow that to go on beyond that point as you mentioned.

Anyway, I defer to you on these matters.

[ForeverAutumn]

Thanks for you comments and input Steven. :)


...and pet the dog under the chin(over the head is a sign of dominance).

This is very interesting. Shiloh loves to be petted but not over her head...under her chin or behind her ears are the preferred head spots.

I've also noticed this with my cats. Stanley doesn't like when you approach the top of his head, but loves under the chin, cheeks or behind the ears. Brandy likes his head rubbed, but he'll lay on his back and rub the top of his head on my hand, he doesn't like if he's sitting up and I pet his head.

Interesting...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I don't disagree with anything you said, but concerning my dogs sister, there were subtle clues from her which made what I did the best course of action. Normally, I use the hand nose method, as you said, when I meet a new dog. I've been around dogs all my life and can read them, for the most part. Still, that doesn't make me a trainer.

You are also right about her possessing me. The point was that she went from being anxious to trusting me in a matter of an hour or so. I didn't allow that to go on beyond that point as you mentioned.

Anyway, I defer to you on these matters.

Trust never equals possession. What you thought was trust was just plain old possession. Dogs take much longer to trust somebody than an hour or so. They can possess a person in an hours time though. My dog Fredrick Von Rugenstein did it to my best friends daughter .She thought he was being really friendly because he was lifting his paw on her leg constantly. What he was really saying with that paw is "you are mine".

[blackraven]

[When a dog is laying across your chest, and growls when YOUR dog approaches, that dog is possessing you. That is something that should NOT be encouraged.



One of the biggest mistakes dog owners make is using human sensibilities when dealing with their dogs. What seems intuitive to a human, is usually not so much so for the dog. We humans greet with the voice and hand, dogs do it with their noses. Dogs should greet us, we should not greet them first. When we think they are aggressive, they are nervous or anxious.

Proper dog training is often ignored, but is one of the most important things for puppy and dog development.[/QUOTE]

I could not agree more! Well said Sir T!

[StevenSurprenant]

Proper dog training is often ignored, but is one of the most important things for puppy and dog development.

In most cases, this can be done without a professional.

Once my German Shepard made it through the biting stage as a puppy, he was almost perfect and, most of the time, only had to be told once to do or not do something. Even as a puppy, he "went" in the house only once. As for the biting stage, nothing I tried worked, except to take him on long walks, which he loved, to keep his mind occupied. This would tire him out.

I never had to yell or hurt him to get him to obey. In fact, all it took was showing him once, maybe twice what I expected and I only had to speak just loud enough for him to hear me.

Some things he seemed to know instinctively, like if I put food on the coffee table, it was mine and not his. Well, this is not entirely true, the first time I put food there I told him "No" and that lasted his entire life. The only time he violated that rule was when I made a sandwich and put a piece of bologna on top of it to give to him later. Occasionally, I would give him a piece of bologna as a treat and he knew it was for him. I left the room and when I came back, he was gently trying to slide the bologna off my sandwich without disturbing it.

He had no formal training, but what he did have was me talking to him all the time, as a parent would speak to a child when trying to teach them. Perhaps he learned through that.

We all love our dogs, but every once in a while we get one that transcends the norm and becomes, for lack of a better descriptor, part of us.

I would hear people comment all the time that they had never seen a dog so attached to someone, or so well behaved. I left him at a kennel once and when I picked him up, even they made the comment that he really loved me.

Still, he was a dog and reacted to things as a dog would. As fond as I am of saying that dogs are people too, there are differences.

Cutesy story...

One time he caught a bird and brought it into the house. I happened to walk past him and saw him staring down. I looked at what he was staring at and there was this bird, standing there, staring back up at him. When I picked the bird up, it was wet where my dog had it in his mouth. I let it go outside.

Needless to say, he was a gentle dog, but at the same time, he would scare the pants off of someone who was violating his territory. He never bit anyone.

We all have our dog stories, but I think formal training is for people who don't have the time to teach them how to behave, or just don't understand that they can do it themselves. Just treat them as you would a child. I will say that I've seen parents raise their child with less guidance than I gave my dog.

I know that some of you will not agree with my methods, but it's the end result that counts. My method transcends just getting a dog to obey. It creates a life long bond.

People who do use a professional trainer need to realize that the training doesn't end at the end of class. The trainer needs to train the dog owner too, and most importantly, the dog owner needs to make a lifetime commitment to maintain that training.

One last thing...

Not everyone is a dog person and no two dogs are the same.

Dog trainers have their usefulness and should be sought out when needed, but they are not a replacement for personal guidance and commitment.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

In most cases, this can be done without a professional.

Once my German Shepard made it through the biting stage as a puppy, he was almost perfect and, most of the time, only had to be told once to do or not do something. Even as a puppy, he "went" in the house only once. As for the biting stage, nothing I tried worked, except to take him on long walks, which he loved, to keep his mind occupied. This would tire him out.

I never had to yell or hurt him to get him to obey. In fact, all it took was showing him once, maybe twice what I expected and I only had to speak just loud enough for him to hear me.

Some things he seemed to know instinctively, like if I put food on the coffee table, it was mine and not his. Well, this is not entirely true, the first time I put food there I told him "No" and that lasted his entire life. The only time he violated that rule was when I made a sandwich and put a piece of bologna on top of it to give to him later. Occasionally, I would give him a piece of bologna as a treat and he knew it was for him. I left the room and when I came back, he was gently trying to slide the bologna off my sandwich without disturbing it.

He had no formal training, but what he did have was me talking to him all the time, as a parent would speak to a child when trying to teach them. Perhaps he learned through that.

We all love our dogs, but every once in a while we get one that transcends the norm and becomes, for lack of a better descriptor, part of us.

I would hear people comment all the time that they had never seen a dog so attached to someone, or so well behaved. I left him at a kennel once and when I picked him up, even they made the comment that he really loved me.

Still, he was a dog and reacted to things as a dog would. As fond as I am of saying that dogs are people too, there are differences.

Cutesy story...

One time he caught a bird and brought it into the house. I happened to walk past him and saw him staring down. I looked at what he was staring at and there was this bird, standing there, staring back up at him. When I picked the bird up, it was wet where my dog had it in his mouth. I let it go outside.

Needless to say, he was a gentle dog, but at the same time, he would scare the pants off of someone who was violating his territory. He never bit anyone.

We all have our dog stories, but I think formal training is for people who don't have the time to teach them how to behave, or just don't understand that they can do it themselves. Just treat them as you would a child. I will say that I've seen parents raise their child with less guidance than I gave my dog.

I know that some of you will not agree with my methods, but it's the end result that counts. My method transcends just getting a dog to obey. It creates a life long bond.

People who do use a professional trainer need to realize that the training doesn't end at the end of class. The trainer needs to train the dog owner too, and most importantly, the dog owner needs to make a lifetime commitment to maintain that training.

One last thing...

Not everyone is a dog person and no two dogs are the same.

Dog trainers have their usefulness and should be sought out when needed, but they are not a replacement for personal guidance and commitment.

Steven, you are displaying a profound lack of education when it comes to dog training and behavior. You should NEVER try an alpha roll without a professional . NEVER! Either you can get hurt, or the dog can. Even my mentor Cesar Milan has a disclaimer at the beginning of his show that states that you should not try these kinds of techniques in the absence of a professional.

Secondly, how do you get personal guidance in the absence of a professional trainer? Do you really think you know it all when it comes to your dog? Even you admit you are not an expert, so why should anyone bother with reading these kinds of irresponsible comments? How does the average person teach their dogs to behave without the proper tools? How does the average individual deal with behavioral problems?

I cannot tell you how many cases I have had to deal with were the owners thought they knew what they were doing, but just made the dogs behavior worse. I rescued two dogs last year that had a "know it all" owner trying to do things to their dogs that they should NOT have been doing. Thank goodness I was able to correct their "know it all" handling, and get the dogs adopted.

Every dog and dog owner benefits greatly from basic dog training. So few dog owners really know what they are doing, and most are just feeling their way through the process. It is a fact that dogs that go through basic training are more balanced than dogs that do not.

[StevenSurprenant]

Deleted by author.

[JohnMichael]

My Corky has become the celebrity at the apartment complex. Last night a woman walked out of her aprtment and chided me for going by without her being able to play with Corky. This morning two young boys opened the patio doors and came out to see Corky much to their mother's dismay. A very young girl who is learning to walk loves to see Corky when she is out with her parents. She toddles up and drops back on her pampered bottom and Corky lowers himself and licks her on her chin and the little girl just giggles. He has charmed the maintenance men and the housekeeper. People wave and honk as we walk by. Corky has a couple of girlfriends he likes to play with when they are out both are chocolate labs.

I am glad I have a dog who likes everyone without any fears or prejudices. Once he has made a friend be it human or canine he does not forget. I am proud of the dog he is.

[StevenSurprenant]

I am glad I have a dog who likes everyone without any fears or prejudices. Once he has made a friend be it human or canine he does not forget. I am proud of the dog he is.

I think dogs are god's gift to man. They are the most wonderful creatures. Gotta love them!

[ForeverAutumn]

That's awesome John. I'm so happy that things are working out well with Corky and that he's bringing so much pleasure and love to your life. :)

Steven and Terrence, I appreciate the advice and opinions from both of you. But if you turn my thread into a pissing match then I'm going to close it. You have every right to disagree with each other's techniques, but please treat each other respectfully. Thanks. :)

[StevenSurprenant]

That's awesome John. I'm so happy that things are working out well with Corky and that he's bringing so much pleasure and love to your life. :)

Steven and Terrence, I appreciate the advice and opinions from both of you. But if you turn my thread into a pissing match then I'm going to close it. You have every right to disagree with each other's techniques, but please treat each other respectfully. Thanks. :)

You're right and I apologize. I offer no excuses for my behavior.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

That's awesome John. I'm so happy that things are working out well with Corky and that he's bringing so much pleasure and love to your life. :)

Steven and Terrence, I appreciate the advice and opinions from both of you. But if you turn my thread into a pissing match then I'm going to close it. You have every right to disagree with each other's techniques, but please treat each other respectfully. Thanks. :)

I vote for close it then. I would rather see this thread closed, than to see any more misinformation being spread.