Paradigms new trick

[harley .guy07]

Well it seems that Paradigm has come out with a new monitor series which is the 7's but their web site shows no clue of this and only the audio press has word. Has any shops gotten any samples of these new speakers or is this something people will have to wait for. I have went past the monitor series so for me it is plain interest in seeing what they are up to and any info would be cool to hear about.

[Ajani]

Certainly looks funky:

http://i.imgur.com/7a62Y.png

Paradigm Monitor Series 7 - AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20818303#post20818303)

[JohnMichael]

Nice looking speakers.:biggrin5:

[Ajani]

Nice looking speakers.:biggrin5:

Yep... IMO it is a MASSIVE improvement over the old look of the Monitor series...

[Jack in Wilmington]

I had Monitor 9's ver. 2 and that seems like a lifetime ago. Still have the Mini's from that system doing duty in the family room. When I was at my Paradigm dealer last week, they had picked up Totem Loudspeakers. They had set up the Totem's in the same room as the Paradigm's, so I just did a little comparison between the Monitor 9 ver 6 and the Totem Arro. I actually liked the Paradigm over the Arro. The Mon. 9's had more bottom end weight as they should and a much larger sound stage. I would have liked to compare them to the Sttaf, but they were in the Sonus Faber room with the Totem Wind.

The monitor line must be going on 10 years in production. That's a long time in the ever changing speaker market.

[Feanor]

Certainly looks funky:
...

Paradigm Monitor Series 7 - AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20818303#post20818303)
The website still shows the old Monitor series.
The new 'Monitors' look completely different, not only the cabinets but the drivers too. Such changes usually indicate major manufacturing changes -- I wonder whether Paradigm has finally bit-the-bullet and move production to offshore? :confused:

[RGA]

I had Monitor 9's ver. 2 and that seems like a lifetime ago. Still have the Mini's from that system doing duty in the family room. When I was at my Paradigm dealer last week, they had picked up Totem Loudspeakers. They had set up the Totem's in the same room as the Paradigm's, so I just did a little comparison between the Monitor 9 ver 6 and the Totem Arro. I actually liked the Paradigm over the Arro. The Mon. 9's had more bottom end weight as they should and a much larger sound stage. I would have liked to compare them to the Sttaf, but they were in the Sonus Faber room with the Totem Wind.

The monitor line must be going on 10 years in production. That's a long time in the ever changing speaker market.

Not much of a comparison really - Most everything beats the Arro which is a boom and sizzle - where's the midrange loudspeakers. I would take the Paradigm and Energy floorstanders (or standmounts) over the Arro (or most other totems) - which is more of a style first speaker maker.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Not much of a comparison really - Most everything beats the Arro which is a boom and sizzle - where's the midrange loudspeakers. I would take the Paradigm and Energy floorstanders (or standmounts) over the Arro (or most other totems) - which is more of a style first speaker maker.

It really wasn't. Next time I'll tryout the Hawk which was sitting there but not hooked up. I could tell that my salesguy wasn't thrilled with the Totems. I wish they would pick up a good stat so I could hear one. The place across the street sells Quad, Maggies and Martin Logan so maybe they feel like the market is covered.

[RGA]

It really wasn't. Next time I'll tryout the Hawk which was sitting there but not hooked up. I could tell that my salesguy wasn't thrilled with the Totems. I wish they would pick up a good stat so I could hear one. The place across the street sells Quad, Maggies and Martin Logan so maybe they feel like the market is covered.

It's important to carry speakers that are quality competition. It's fine if the dealer carries a style product so long as the consumer is made aware of it. Commercial Electronics had a good sales guy who told customers this when they were buying B&O. Sure it's not the greatest sound but for an apartment and for the style some people are after it's pretty decent stuff - for many the first priority is the style. He was B&O's number one saleman selling more than anyone in the country and winning free stuff from them - and yet he never had to lie and call it great hi-fi.

Partly why I like Soundhounds. I always laugh when people get mad at me and phone the dealer or the manufacturer that Soundhounds tells it like it is. Manufacturers need dealers more than dealers need manufacturers.

Soundhounds carried Totem for a long time but didn't like the sound after the change of drivers - plus because they have MUCH better competition in the store - they could not sell Totem. Totem then went into the big box chain A&B Sound in western Canada - all the high end dealers dropped the brand. Big Box chains IMO are the death rattle of a brand. High end dealers don't want to compete against big box chains because big box chains eventually put pressure on the manufacturer to lower the price. The brand name, fair or not, is now relegated to mid-fi. Once that happens the high end chains won't want them back. And A&B Sound went out of business - and the high end shops don't want them back here. This is what has arguably happened to Martin Logan and what happened to Polk Audio.

Paradigm is mostly sold here in home theater big box chains. I suppose it has more prestige in the U.S. because it's an import.

The price performance of the monitor series has usually been decent and it's basically a home theater speaker line on a budget - not a big fan of metal tweeters or plastic woofers but since most stuff seems to follow this pattern - it's as good as most and it looks good.

[Jack in Wilmington]

It's important to carry speakers that are quality competition. It's fine if the dealer carries a style product so long as the consumer is made aware of it. Commercial Electronics had a good sales guy who told customers this when they were buying B&O. Sure it's not the greatest sound but for an apartment and for the style some people are after it's pretty decent stuff - for many the first priority is the style. He was B&O's number one saleman selling more than anyone in the country and winning free stuff from them - and yet he never had to lie and call it great hi-fi.

Partly why I like Soundhounds. I always laugh when people get mad at me and phone the dealer or the manufacturer that Soundhounds tells it like it is. Manufacturers need dealers more than dealers need manufacturers.

Soundhounds carried Totem for a long time but didn't like the sound after the change of drivers - plus because they have MUCH better competition in the store - they could not sell Totem. Totem then went into the big box chain A&B Sound in western Canada - all the high end dealers dropped the brand. Big Box chains IMO are the death rattle of a brand. High end dealers don't want to compete against big box chains because big box chains eventually put pressure on the manufacturer to lower the price. The brand name, fair or not, is now relegated to mid-fi. Once that happens the high end chains won't want them back. And A&B Sound went out of business - and the high end shops don't want them back here. This is what has arguably happened to Martin Logan and what happened to Polk Audio.

Paradigm is mostly sold here in home theater big box chains. I suppose it has more prestige in the U.S. because it's an import.

The price performance of the monitor series has usually been decent and it's basically a home theater speaker line on a budget - not a big fan of metal tweeters or plastic woofers but since most stuff seems to follow this pattern - it's as good as most and it looks good.


I'll be curious to see how long they hang on to Totem. They were selling Vienna Acoustics for a short while, but I think it was as a favor to the distributor Sumiko. I think Totem could sell, but it would have to be to the right kind of customer. Someone that gets caught up in the appearance and thinks the sound is "fine".

[Woochifer]

Well it seems that Paradigm has come out with a new monitor series which is the 7's but their web site shows no clue of this and only the audio press has word. Has any shops gotten any samples of these new speakers or is this something people will have to wait for. I have went past the monitor series so for me it is plain interest in seeing what they are up to and any info would be cool to hear about.

In my experience, Paradigm usually doesn't update their website until volume production on the new versions has already started, and units are ready to go in the distribution channels. Right now, the audio press is getting press releases and/or review samples.

They probably still have plenty of v.6 Monitor speakers in their warehouses, and want to thin the inventory out before switching over the website. If you're looking for a set of those speakers, now's probably a great time to buy, since any remaining units will probably get discounted.


The new 'Monitors' look completely different, not only the cabinets but the drivers too. Such changes usually indicate major manufacturing changes -- I wonder whether Paradigm has finally bit-the-bullet and move production to offshore?

Paradigm has changed over their drivers many different times over the years, so I don't think this is any different than any of their other product transitions. Their operation is very integrated, where they make the drivers, cabinets, and crossovers themselves. The only instances of outsourcing that I can recall were at the low end, where they import tweeters for their Cinema series models; and at the high end, where they contracted with an Italian woodworking company (same one that Sonus Faber uses) to produce the Signature series cabinets.


The monitor line must be going on 10 years in production. That's a long time in the ever changing speaker market.

But, the Monitor series of today is way different than the original one, with a somewhat more refined sound than 10 years ago. Also, the current Monitor lineup merges together models that used to be part of the separate Performance and Monitor series. The old Performance series models became redundant when Paradigm introduced the Cinema and Millenia series, so they merged them into the Monitor series and eliminated some of the slower moving models.


Soundhounds carried Totem for a long time but didn't like the sound after the change of drivers - plus because they have MUCH better competition in the store - they could not sell Totem. Totem then went into the big box chain A&B Sound in western Canada - all the high end dealers dropped the brand. Big Box chains IMO are the death rattle of a brand. High end dealers don't want to compete against big box chains because big box chains eventually put pressure on the manufacturer to lower the price. The brand name, fair or not, is now relegated to mid-fi. Once that happens the high end chains won't want them back. And A&B Sound went out of business - and the high end shops don't want them back here. This is what has arguably happened to Martin Logan and what happened to Polk Audio.

That might have been true a decade ago, but nowadays, in many markets, the big box chains, well Best Buy/Magnolia actually, are the only distribution channels left. That's why B&W, Martin Logan, Vienna Acoustics, Sonus Faber, Monitor Audio, and REL are carried by Best Buy (through their Magnolia affiliate). Are you saying that these brands are all on their "death rattle" because they're sold through the strongest distribution channel remaining?

It becomes a matter of survival when regional specialty chains are all but extinct (just in my area, Good Guys, Anderson's, Ken Crane's, and Tweeter, which gobbled up hundreds of regional specialty audio stores across the country, have all gone out of business since 2005), and many high end audio retailers have also disappeared. The concession that these brands make to their independent retailers is to reserve the high end models for them.

When a chain goes out of business, it's not the case that "high end shops don't want them back here" -- it all depends on which brands they already carry, and whether they have a need. For example, I don't see B&W getting dropped in droves just because Best Buy/Magnolia picked up their entry level/home theater lines.

Polk doesn't really serve a need for any independent audio retailers, so when Circuit City, Tweeter, and Good Guys went out of business, Polk lost a good amount of their distribution. In the U.S., Paradigm, Energy, PSB, Boston Acoustics, and a host of other speaker manufacturers already served Polk's market niche, so retailers did not need to gravitate to Polk.


Paradigm is mostly sold here in home theater big box chains. I suppose it has more prestige in the U.S. because it's an import.

Prestige? What does that have to do with anything? You really think that something from north of the border is viewed as prestigious by US buyers? (Look at Paradigm's website, if you want to see the geo-marketing pitch -- "Made in North America")

Paradigm is sold at independent high end retailers because 1) they serve the full market range from entry-level to high end, and allow a retailer to accommodate any budget range; 2) they sell well; 3) Paradigm has done a decent job at protecting their dealers' territories; and 4) Paradigm makes damn good speakers. Paradigm now has their mass market Paradigm Shift line of earbuds, headphones, and entry level speakers that they sell via mail order and are pitching to big box chains. So, obviously they too see the market shifts occurring, and are no longer limiting their distribution channels.

[RGA]

I suppose it depends - I am not familiar with Magnolia since there are none here. I know what is sold here and by who. I do agree with your multi-line case - ML sells only the lower line speakers at Best Buy here (maybe they will sell upper models down the line). I don't blame them for wanting to sell more speakers or being forced to move because high end dealers closed down. We shall see if the quality of those brands is maintained and if the people will be willing to spend $5,000 on loudspeakers that used to be occupied by mostly sub $1,000 speakers most of which were of the $299 variety. One drug store here is carrying a set of $3000 Klipsch Heresy - they have had it here for 11 months and have not sold even one pair of them.

Soundhounds sold only a few pairs of Totems over the entire year - against stiff competition their sonic deficiency was very obvious - especially at the price.

I will leave what is deemed good or bad aside from this discussion because that isn't going to be agreed upon. Best Buy however does not sell to the two channel music listening audiophile - they are mainly about selling DVD/BLU Ray movies and home theater systems. Paradigm would be a perfect fit. They offer a complete set-up at several pricing options. B&W would make sense as well.

The high end dealers here have hundreds of brands they can choose to carry - it is not the manufacturer in the driver's seat - it is the dealer. That's why they state their opinions - even of the stuff they carry - and if it gets back to the manufacturer - and it has since some people on forums have ran and phoned the manufacturer about what they said - they don;t care - and they still carry the brand. Because if the manufacturer wants to sell their product they need the dealers to sell it. That is what audio shows are all about - manufacturers selling their wares to dealers.

The Paradigm line is a great one to carry and sell - lots of products relatively inexpensive and they sound better than the likes of Totem to boot. Oops I made a sound judgement - but...

I think I would be like the dealer here - I may not like the sound of them too much but boy would I like to carry the line to sell.

[frenchmon]

Man...my Paradigm Monitor 7v3 look huge compared to the new ones.

[TheHills44060]

They'd look 1000x better with color matched front baffles instead of generic black ones.

[Ajani]

They'd look 1000x better with color matched front baffles instead of generic black ones.

Agreed... Though I suspect they just went with plain baffles to cut the costs + many persons will leave on the grills anyway, so the plain baffles won't matter as much to them...

[YBArcam]

I've never really listened to a Totem speaker before. Many audiophiles seem to like them, including many Naim users. Can they really be that bad? Despite the fact that they put a lot of emphasis on finish, they don't seem to really be all that much different in size or shape to other speakers...I'm not sure I'd call them a lifestyle product.

I'd love to hear a pair from their new Elements series. Nice 7" drivers made in house, no crossover used for the woofer. Seems like more of a performance oriented speaker than what they've made thus far, and the price reflects that.

Totem's Elements | Stereophile.com (http://www.stereophile.com/content/totems-elements-0)

[harley .guy07]

Heck I just thought they looked a lot better than the monitor's have in quite some time. I had a pair of monitor 7 v 2's that seem to share a lot of the looks of the new speakers with the squared off cabinets and straight up looks which I like. I surely don't know how they sound since I have not seen them, there is a Paradigm dealer here but I don't think they have these new speakers yet. I am like RGA I am not a fan of metal tweeters but there are exceptions to every rule and as long as they took the harshness out of their monitor tweets then all is good. I will stick with my Dyns because I just love their sound but they are in a different class than the monitor series anyway but I would tell anyone looking in this price class to at least give them a listen. And as far as totem is concerned I have thought that they practice the looks before sound thing for a while and to me it would seem that the sound would matter the most and the looks are something that the wife would have to put their stamp on and hope all would work.

[harley .guy07]

After looking at my post I realized that Totems aren't that popular in my area and the only ones I heard were being under powered by a receiver so I might be wrong in my statement but I do know that Paradigm has always thought of their monitor line as a bang for the buck speaker that can be dynamic and sound good compared to others in the price class.

[RGA]

I've never really listened to a Totem speaker before. Many audiophiles seem to like them, including many Naim users. Can they really be that bad? Despite the fact that they put a lot of emphasis on finish, they don't seem to really be all that much different in size or shape to other speakers...I'm not sure I'd call them a lifestyle product.

I'd love to hear a pair from their new Elements series. Nice 7" drivers made in house, no crossover used for the woofer. Seems like more of a performance oriented speaker than what they've made thus far, and the price reflects that.

Totem's Elements | Stereophile.com (http://www.stereophile.com/content/totems-elements-0)

Not much of a Naim fan either so maybe I am not the best guy to talk to. :p

I like some Totem speakers on sound - the Mani 2, Shaman way back - problem though is the price. The Mani-2 is a big bass standmount powerful but the price for me is just too high for the sound quality on tap. But that would be the model I would buy if looks were critical and money didn't matter. I passed on a new set at $3,000 feeling they were way overpriced - then I found out they usually go for $5000 and my jaw dropped. They don't look "that" good.

I suppose it's what you compare them to. I auditioned a Totem Model One which was $1800 and in the same store I heard the B&W CDM 2SE $1100 which to me sounded considerably more open and dynamic - the Model One has less box colouration but sounds congested and little midrange gets through the overexposed midbass. In other words incredibly boxy and closed in. Then i auditioned the Dynaudio Audience 52 and 52 SE and PMC TB1 all less expensive and all IMO much better - just as much bass if not more in all of these - more open less boxy more dynamics - none of them look as nice and all of them were physically bigger - so unless tiny and sexy is critical or you live in a Japanese 100 square foot apartment - I don't get the appeal of them. It also didn't help that the dealer here who used to sell Totem had a set of Audio Note AX Two ($700) that sound a "lot" better - but butt fugly.

The new line holds a bit more promise given the size of the drivers - but we'll see. I hope they get away from anything resembling a long throw woofer.

[2y2ret]

I just purchased Monitor 7's version 6 for my new mains. I looked and listened for 3 to 4 months and didn't purchase until more recently when my rec room renovations were completed. I started out favouring these speakers but I listened and compared B&W's, Klipsch, Harbeths, and anything else I could find to listen to. On decision day after 3 more hours of listening and comparing I bought them still convinced they wre the best sounding in the price range. Cost wasn't my deciding factor but I was thrilled when I learned they had just been heavily discounted from my previous quotes due to the new series 7 models coming out. I was glad it took me so long to make the decision.

I have since reviewed the specs for the new Monitor models and putting cosmetics aside the only real difference I can see is the mid level woofer apparently has some changes and is now sealed in an enclosure and the new monitor 7's have lost one speaker. To actually now get the exact number of speakers (and they are the same size as my version 6 Monitor 7's) they are now called Monitor 9's !! It seems Paradigm will be trying to convince us that less is more. Of course we all know the real test will be in the performance and sound but it just may be that those of us who purchased series 6 Monitors (especially with the model ending discounts) really have found a bargain.

As for the speakers I now have over 50 hours on them and I still can't believe how exceptional they sound at this price point. There is a definite break-in period so don't judge these speakers right out of the box.

[jobswygant01]

I had Monitor 9's ver.

[Ajani]

The prices are out:

Atom Monitor: $199
Mini Monitor: $279
Monitor 7: $449
Monitor 9: $599
Monitor 11: $799
Center 1: $379
Center 3: $599
Surround 1: $279
Surround 3 $399

Link to article on HE Website: Paradigm (http://www.hemagazine.com/node/22781)

[Jack in Wilmington]

The prices are out:

Atom Monitor: $199
Mini Monitor: $279
Monitor 7: $449
Monitor 9: $599
Monitor 11: $799
Center 1: $379
Center 3: $599
Surround 1: $279
Surround 3 $399


Paradigm (http://www.hemagazine.com/node/22781)

Are you sure? That is way cheaper than ver. 6. Hell that's cheaper than ver. 2.

[Ajani]

Are you sure? That is way cheaper than ver. 6. Hell that's cheaper than ver. 2.

Yep... check the link.... I'm pretty sure the price is for each speaker... so multiply by 2 for a pair...

[frenchmon]

Yep... check the link.... I'm pretty sure the price is for each speaker... so multiply by 2 for a pair...

Wheres the link?

My Monitor 7v3 cost about $700 back in 2002

[Ajani]

Wheres the link?

It's the grey "Paradigm" below the prices...

Here it is again:

Paradigm (http://www.hemagazine.com/node/22781)



My Monitor 7v3 cost about $700 back in 2002

So they've moved up to just $900 in the new series ($450x2 assuming the prices listed are per speaker)

[Ajani]

Another link to the prices from Canada HiFi this time:

Paradigm Monitor Series 7 Loudspeakers | CANADA HiFi Magazine (http://canadahifi.com/index.php/paradigm-monitor-series-7-loudspeakers/)

[YBArcam]

The new line holds a bit more promise given the size of the drivers - but we'll see. I hope they get away from anything resembling a long throw woofer.

Was able to hear the new Totems a couple of days ago. Couldn't stay long though. They were driven by a pair of Jadis monoblocks and they sounded amazing! Very life like, open, dynamic, clear, but with a nice sense of warmth.

Too much $$ for me though. I think the bookshelf goes for about $6,000. Maybe a similar speaker that's about half the price would be a pair of 3A de Capos. Just going by driver size and crossover design (no actual crossover, just a capacitor to protect the tweeter is used on both). If that's the sound that this kind of design can yield then I'm definitely interested.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Was able to hear the new Totems a couple of days ago. Couldn't stay long though. They were driven by a pair of Jadis monoblocks and they sounded amazing! Very life like, open, dynamic, clear, but with a nice sense of warmth.

Too much $$ for me though. I think the bookshelf goes for about $6,000. Maybe a similar speaker that's about half the price would be a pair of 3A de Capos. Just going by driver size and crossover design (no actual crossover, just a capacitor to protect the tweeter is used on both). If that's the sound that this kind of design can yield then I'm definitely interested.

Sounds like the Mani 2 Signature for the price. The 3A de capos are a really nice speaker at less than half the price.

[frenchmon]

It's the grey "Paradigm" below the prices...

Here it is again:

Paradigm (http://www.hemagazine.com/node/22781)




So they've moved up to just $900 in the new series ($450x2 assuming the prices listed are per speaker)

Just looked at my sells slip from 2002 for the Paradigm Monitor 7v3 which are much bigger than the most current Monitor 7's and they cost $650 including tax.

I have always used them in my home theater as the main fronts. About a week ago, I plugged them into the 2 channel system. Great sounding speaker... the Canton best them in the upper end because its more refined. But the Paradigms are just to big a sound for my two channel room even tho they sound great in a two channel application. This has me wondering about the studio series and the Signature series with the B tweeter. But stand mount. The last purchase I will make is speakers. I will put Paradigm studio and Signatures on the short list.

[harley .guy07]

Yeah I had monitor 7 V2's for quite a while and got them for a steel since I ran the shop in my home town that sold them so I paid cost for them and I ran them for quite a while and while the treble was overbearing and bright I replaced the tweeters with soft domes and that made a huge difference and I used them for a while longer but when I got my Dyn's I really heard what I was missing in the music as far as depth and detail especially in the midrange and the Dyn's while being smaller put out just as much bass with better detail. The monitor series Paradigms in every version I have heard are good for the money and make a really good pair for theater use for a dedicated two channel application I would recommend spending a little more and go up to a speaker that can deliver the musical goods that a true upper end speaker can give you. I still have a soft spot for Paradigm as a company because besides the cabinets I believe they still make all their own drivers and crossovers and they have some killer new subwoofers out now but I just think I have moved in a different direction from the "Paradigm" sound.

[2low2rl]

I'm sure these sound amazing

[starcolony]

I am a current owner of the previous model Atom monitors. I can't even imagine them able to improve the sound. That would be some trick. For their size they are amazing.

re:aesthetics

My Atoms look just fine to me. As long as I keep the speaker covers on. Removing the covers exposes a main speaker that looks more like something for marital enhancement than aural pleasure :ihih:

I don't get why the speaker covers extend below the speaker case. I have to keep the Atoms slightly hanging over the edge of the shelf or the covers don't stay in place. Hopefully they have resolved this issue with the new models.


Cheers, TR